Low end LEDs vs MH/HPS

[HappyPots89]

I’d love to help you out brother. To start out and get a good idea of where your at and what you need, I’ll need some information about your setup first. I know you have stated it already but if you could list your equipment that would help immensely. So to start what size tent? What brand lights do you have? What medium are you growing in? Tap or RO water? ... I’m sure I’m missing some things but we’ll figure This out as we go.., I’m here for the ride buddy, and I’ll do everything I can to see you succeed.

My flowering tent is 3’x3’x6’. Right now I have two 1000watt cheap leds off amazon. One likesuns and one Noah-s I believe. Right now I have the plants in 3 gallon pots. Some fabric some plastic. Next run will be started in cups and up potted to eventually be in 5 gal fabric pots. I’m just using hp organic mixed with perilite for some of the plants and the new plants I have vegging now are in root farm hydro soiless mix. I’m using root farm base and bloom nutes and also have some bud juice I got off amazon. I’m just using tap water right now that is ph’d to 5.8-6.2 ish. Very low chlorine in the water as well

 

[Allen42]

This is my 480 watt fixture that Justin from @Budget LED hooked me up. He may be able to help you my friend.

 

[HappyPots89]

This is my 480 watt fixture that Justin from @Budget LED hooked me up. He may be able to help you my friend.

I’d definitely be interested to see what he would be able to do for me. For strictly a flowering light for my tent. Here is a pic of the veg box. Like I said I believe the leds I have now will be enough to fill that space so if I could get a good light set up for flowering that’s in my price range I am definitely willing to pull the trigger on it.

 

[Allen42]

Ya I think your solid on that veg space.. budgets 250 fixture would do you real nice in a 3x3 if your growing 2 strains. You’ll be happy for sure.

 

[HappyPots89]

Awesome thank you everyone for the input and thank you @SimpleManZ420 especially for the extra info you sent me! Here’s a pic I took a few days ago of the plant I have with the most bud growth so far. One month of 12/12 and under the cheap leds. Can’t wait to see what Kinda difference a good quality led will make.

 

[Allen42]

I agree with you if using high quality lights. With us cheap light guys is it a good starting point for watts per sq ft? I am just trying to get get close to your yield lol. Your input is appreciated.

Ya if your running inefficient lighting then the rule of thumb definitely applies if you want to get a good yield. Lighting is the most important factor in plant growth.

 

[Allen42]

Awesome thank you everyone for the input and thank you @SimpleManZ420 especially for the extra info you sent me! Here’s a pic I took a few days ago of the plant I have with the most bud growth so far. One month of 12/12 and under the cheap leds. Can’t wait to see what Kinda difference a good quality led will make.

That’s looks beautiful my man! I agree, I can’t wait to see what you can do with some real gear.

 

[HappyPots89]

That’s looks beautiful my man! I agree, I can’t wait to see what you can do with some real gear.

You’ll have to keep an eye on things once the new light comes in and see the improvements and maybe even offer a little more coaching on other things I have going on hahaha.

 

[Allen42]

I got you buddy! Between me and the other intelligent potheads were gonna make sure you got some frosty nug to smoke on.

 

[bluter]

look in to quantum boards now if you wanna go led. there is nothing wrong with hps for a decent light. if you are on a tight budget it can be a good way to go. you will feel electricity costs tho.

most Qbs and cob pay for themselves inside three grows and will not lose efficiency like hps. i am running a 600 watts of actual draw cob, but don't use it all, it is overkill for the space. it actually produces a bit better than the last 600 watt hps we ran. more like an 800 or 1000.

12 cob citizen rig.JPG

• bluter
• Sep 19, 2019

600 watt real draw 12 cob citizen clu048 1212 light rig

all hung up.JPG

• bluter
• Nov 25, 2019

first MC finish

 

[HappyPots89]

look in to quantum boards now if you wanna go led. there is nothing wrong with hps for a decent light. if you are on a tight budget it can be a good way to go. you will feel electricity costs tho.

most Qbs and cob pay for themselves inside three grows and will not lose efficiency like hps. i am running a 600 watts of actual draw cob, but don't use it all, it is overkill for the space. it actually produces a bit better than the last 600 watt hps we ran. more like an 800 or 1000.

12 cob citizen rig.JPG

• bluter
• Sep 19, 2019

600 watt real draw 12 cob citizen clu048 1212 light rig

all hung up.JPG

• bluter
• Nov 25, 2019

first MC finish

That’s awesome. I’m thinking I’m going to go with one of the budget led quantum boards. Seems like the way to go

 

[Weaselcracker]

OP, sounds like a good choice if you’ve got the cash - they do grow some nice dope.

you will feel electricity costs tho.

I guess I’m just playing devils advocate Bluter. Not an argument that matters much to me either way as I do like both types lights. But I just have to point out- the difference in electrical cost will be minimal.

Last I checked electrical rates in Alberta were around 8¢ a killowatt hour. But let’s say for the sake of argument it’s 10¢ an hour.

A 600w HPS on flowering cycle will cost around $260 a year to run.
A decent comparative replacement in LED would be around 400w. That would cost $175 a year to run.

An electrical savings of $85 a year isn’t really all that earth shattering, and it will take many years to recoup the cost of that much LED lighting, which from what I can see will be around $700 Canadian bare minimum, assuming free shipping, which is unlikely.

Yes there are a few other minor cost differences we can nitpick about, and hopefully won’t, but they’re trivial.

Again, I’m not picking one side or the other and I’m very happy for the OP if he has the cash to get some QBs, cause they are nice lights. It just seems like the idea of electrical savings ‘paying for the lights’ is a bit far fetched.

 

[Allen42]

OP, sounds like a good choice if you’ve got the cash - they do grow some nice dope.





I guess I’m just playing devils advocate Bluter. Not an argument that matters much to me either way as I do like both types lights. But I just have to point out- the difference in electrical cost will be minimal.

Last I checked electrical rates in Alberta were around 8¢ a killowatt hour. But let’s say for the sake of argument it’s 10¢ an hour.

A 600w HPS on flowering cycle will cost around $260 a year to run.
A decent comparative replacement in LED would be around 400w. That would cost $175 a year to run.

An electrical savings of $85 a year isn’t really all that earth shattering, and it will take many years to recoup the cost of that much LED lighting, which from what I can see will be around $700 Canadian bare minimum, assuming free shipping, which is unlikely.

Yes there are a few other minor cost differences we can nitpick about, and hopefully won’t, but they’re trivial.

Again, I’m not picking one side or the other and I’m very happy for the OP if he has the cash to get some QBs, cause they are nice lights. It just seems like the idea of electrical savings ‘paying for the lights’ is a bit far fetched.

In that hypothetical yes it wouldn’t cost much electrical wise, but there’s more costs that go into hps... and just to play devils advocate as well... let’s say it’s a big room there trying to light up, or hes planning on expanding in the future... then all those hps fees add up a little more quickly, no?

 

[Weaselcracker]

I don’t know about ‘more quicky’ If the grow size was expanded I guess costs would expand accordingly, whichever system you chose.

Overall, as far as I can see- LEDs will pay for themselves in electrical savings in ‘a few years’. How many years depends on where you live and how much you pay. There are a bunch of factors involved that may make one or the other more suitable for the grower. The argument has been gone over so many times.

Mostly I’m just looking at the OPs original question and saying - yes HID is a perfectly good option for you, quality is good and so is price,
LED is good too, obviously. But you’re going to be paying quite heavily up front

 

[bluter]

OP, sounds like a good choice if you’ve got the cash - they do grow some nice dope.





I guess I’m just playing devils advocate Bluter. Not an argument that matters much to me either way as I do like both types lights. But I just have to point out- the difference in electrical cost will be minimal.

Last I checked electrical rates in Alberta were around 8¢ a killowatt hour. But let’s say for the sake of argument it’s 10¢ an hour.

A 600w HPS on flowering cycle will cost around $260 a year to run.
A decent comparative replacement in LED would be around 400w. That would cost $175 a year to run.

An electrical savings of $85 a year isn’t really all that earth shattering, and it will take many years to recoup the cost of that much LED lighting, which from what I can see will be around $700 Canadian bare minimum, assuming free shipping, which is unlikely.

Yes there are a few other minor cost differences we can nitpick about, and hopefully won’t, but they’re trivial.

Again, I’m not picking one side or the other and I’m very happy for the OP if he has the cash to get some QBs, cause they are nice lights. It just seems like the idea of electrical savings ‘paying for the lights’ is a bit far fetched.

if that's an absolute straight rate it makes sense. on the the light alone.

i've always maintained the low cost of entry for hps can buy a lot of electricity. the main issue is usually the cost of cooling, and moving the requisite amount of air required to maintain a growing environment. there is greater cost involved supporting the hps than the light alone.

those costs also drop under led. environments become easier to handle etc.. it's frankly only the entire combination which makes it cost effective.

most urban areas are on a prorated basis for electricity. first x kilowatt hrs cost x amount, go above and a premium is charged on subsequent hrs. it's not what the grow consumes in energy, it's what it adds to overall household consumption. commercial rates and rural etc are different.

 

[Weaselcracker]

There are many factors involved- it kind of depends on the individual situation.
How about factoring in the cost of heating? Savings aren’t so great if I have to put a heater in Until they come out with good LEDs that produce a lot more heat to keep my grow warm in winter, I’m going to be using mostly HID.

 

[bluter]

my veg room has a heater.
i'd normally run 400 - 600 watts of MH in veg and call it a day. would be perfect.
circuits available would not support it.

instead i run 200 watts of cob and a heater.
does exact same job and i can add the fans and bubblers in without tripping the breaker.

fort st veg/clone.JPG

• bluter
• Nov 11, 2019

reclaimed space - under stair veg room

 

[HappyPots89]

Seems each type of lighting has its pros and cons and each person has their own personal preferences. It is a tough choice for sure but I think the led will be a better option rather than having to deal with extra heat if that is going to be an issue.

 

[Weaselcracker]

my veg room has a heater.

Cute little heater.
Actually my QBs are currently moved into a loft space to isolate plants for some pollination operations. And I’m using a heater in there for warmth ha ha ha.
It happens I’m also brewing wine in there so need the heat anyway and it makes a good spare room for general use. On the other hand a 600w HPS in there could be keeping my plants happy and my wine warm too, using less power...?

 

[Allen42]

By “more quickly” I meant you would see a much faster return in your investment if you filled a large room with led rather then HPS because a big room of HPS will definitely put the bills through the roof. Sorry I didn’t phrase that sentence to your understanding. My LED’s tend to keep my temps at the perfect range, maybe a little higher maybe a little lower then optimal depending on time of year but it never gets extremely hot or extremely cold and never out of range... I use fans for VPD... not to control heat... Idk I’ve had experience with hps and I just prefer led on almost every level. Your absolutely right though they both have pros and cons.