Lower leaf yellowing, deficiency?

[Weffalo]

Hey guys,

I know how fast problems can snowball so wanted to get opinions on this asap so I can get it fixed Any advice or help is welcome, thanks.

Below the canopy my leaves are losing colour FAST, in only 24 hours they've lost a lot of green and everything under the canopy was super droopy. I know this area won't be getting much light so it may just be that but I wanted to make sure it's not a nutrient defiency or something else.

Quick summary of my environment and grow:

DLI at canopy height 38
VPD around 1.18 (50% rH, 24-25c)
Fed preflower nutrients up until yesterday (day 14 of flower) when I switched to bloom nutes /w 1ml/L CalMag, EC was 1.9 which is accurate according to feedchart.
Medium is Biobizz light soil with 40% perlite
5gal SIP container with res filled daily

And here is some pictures of the leaves and canopy above for reference:

 

[013]

What’s up Weffalo?

don’t know beans about Biobizz but I know bluter & others said the brand is kinda problematic

How are you feeding? Is it nutes thru the res? or applied from top?

I can see nutes from the res as being slower delivery method for uptake and using top feeding for correcting a deficiency makes sense

had a brief conversation with Azi on the SIP thread about how the high brix crew always fed double strength nutes when bottom watering…

all I’ve got at the moment but will stick around to see where this lands

 

[seaofgreen18]

Hey guys,

I know how fast problems can snowball so wanted to get opinions on this asap so I can get it fixed Any advice or help is welcome, thanks.

Below the canopy my leaves are losing colour FAST, in only 24 hours they've lost a lot of green and everything under the canopy was super droopy. I know this area won't be getting much light so it may just be that but I wanted to make sure it's not a nutrient defiency or something else.

Quick summary of my environment and grow:

DLI at canopy height 38
VPD around 1.18 (50% rH, 24-25c)
Fed preflower nutrients up until yesterday (day 14 of flower) when I switched to bloom nutes /w 1ml/L CalMag, EC was 1.9 which is accurate according to feedchart.
Medium is Biobizz light soil with 40% perlite
5gal SIP container with res filled daily

And here is some pictures of the leaves and canopy above for reference:

What the moisture level in your containers?

 

[013]

It’s a SIP (sub irrigated planter) with water reservoir, feed pipe, an air chamber & overflow hole plus the media has been amended with 40 percent perlite per the SIP rules… so it’s operating on whole different moisture gradient…

 

[seaofgreen18]

I think you have a few issues going on there I wish I could help but unfortunately there are alot of variables for the symptoms you show as far as moisture wheather in hydro or soil if the Media is too wet you get alot of different things going on and plants look like that. Disease, plants can't uptake water or nuits so..... Some things to consider troubleshooting your issues

 

[zigzagman1960]

Needs calmag when you water too. I think your running LEDs and your tent is too cold.

 

[Weffalo]

What’s up Weffalo?

don’t know beans about Biobizz but I know bluter & others said the brand is kinda problematic

How are you feeding? Is it nutes thru the res? or applied from top?

I can see nutes from the res as being slower delivery method for uptake and using top feeding for correcting a deficiency makes sense

had a brief conversation with Azi on the SIP thread about how the high brix crew always fed double strength nutes when bottom watering…

all I’ve got at the moment but will stick around to see where this lands

Thanks @013 - Appreciate your input mate, nutes through the res which is drained by the plant daily. It's only lower growth right now but really want to stop it before it spreads to the canopy

I think you have a few issues going on there I wish I could help but unfortunately there are alot of variables for the symptoms you show as far as moisture wheather in hydro or soil if the Media is too wet you get alot of different things going on and plants look like that. Disease, plants can't uptake water or nuits so..... Some things to consider troubleshooting your issues

Appreciate your input mate. I don't think moisture gradient or the medium being too wet should be an issue with this method of growing but I could be wrong. I'll see how things go

Needs calmag when you water too. I think your running LEDs and your tent is too cold.

She's been getting plenty of calmag, you think 25-26c is too cold during lights on? 77-80F which from every source I've seen seems perfectly fine for this stage of flower. I plan to reduce the temps even further as the weeks go on.

You could be onto something because maybe those leaves below the canopy are too cold which are shaded by the large canopy above. So those specific leaves are probably both cooler and shaded from any light? I'll check the temperature of the lower leaves at lights on

 

[CaptainLucky]

Hey @Bill284 or @InTheShed do you have any suggestions for this member?Thanks. CL

 

[013]

running wedding cake in 5 gallon SIP munching on Geoflora organic dry mix. She’s got 500 watts of mars hydro above and bcuz of big node spacing have hung 3 T-5 LED fixtures 54 watts each on vertical plane to light up lowers… she’s been top fed, plain water thru res, first run soil mix and she’s still chewing her fingers off but she’s doing it slowly so I don’t mind. Looks unsightly but she’s sucking every resource out of her fans plus eating everything I throw at her…

D9A4BE78-BD4E-4A21-A7B5-570A62AE9C30.jpeg

• 013
• Feb 13, 2023

 

[Weffalo]

running wedding cake in 5 gallon SIP munching on Geoflora organic dry mix. She’s got 500 watts of mars hydro above and bcuz of big node spacing have hung 3 T-5 LED fixtures 54 watts each on vertical plane to light up lowers… she’s been top fed, plain water thru res, first run soil mix and she’s still chewing her fingers off but she’s doing it slowly so I don’t mind. Looks unsightly but she’s sucking every resource out of her fans plus eating everything I throw at her…

D9A4BE78-BD4E-4A21-A7B5-570A62AE9C30.jpeg

• 013
• Feb 13, 2023

She's like a rainbow mate nothing unsightly there

 

[InTheShed]

Hey @Bill284 or @InTheShed do you have any suggestions for this member?Thanks. CL

The whole plant looks like it could use a higher nutrient load from looking at the overall color. If the Grow is where the nitrogen comes from, the recommendation is to cut that in half for flower, and I don't think that's a good idea.

@Weffalo How many of those 37 recommended bottles are you actually using?

 

[013]

kinda glazed over that part but seems they do have a plethora of products...

and whoa Nelly that’s 4 whole rounds of flushing suggest by nute manufacturer

 

[Weffalo]

The whole plant looks like it could use a higher nutrient load from looking at the overall color. If the Grow is where the nitrogen comes from, the recommendation is to cut that in half for flower, and I don't think that's a good idea.

@Weffalo How many of those 37 recommended bottles are you actually using?

@InTheShed Thanks for weighing in mate. So I fed veg nutes for the first week of flower then switched to preflower nutes for a week, I've only just changed to bloom nutes. The full time I've been within the EC range from the chart (even slightly above it but thats due to adding CalMag). There is still plenty of N in the Micro but the Grow has loads too.

Here's a pic of the bottles with the NPK ratios on:

The feed chart is weird but the way I understand it, you only use one of the base nutrients or base organic nutrients, I'm using the Tri-Part (top option) and then I'm also adding each of the supplements. Throughout veg I added fulvic, silica and seaweed once a week but now in flower that's just down to the "Pro Bloom" which is some sort of organic non NPK based booster and the silica, I've added seaweed once or twice but not in the last week.

It's not feasible for me to flush plants so I am just ignoring the "flush with flashclean" at each step, I figure that's more to be safe & to sell "FlashClean"

 

[Weffalo]

Here's a pic with no LEDs and flash on camera, the LEDs tend to wash the photos out and not really show the true colours (although I still think they are maybe too light, but I've had issues with the light being slightly too close for a large portion of the grow)

 

[zigzagman1960]

She's been getting plenty of calmag, you think 25-26c is too cold during lights on? 77-80F which from every source I've seen seems perfectly fine for this stage of flower. I plan to reduce the temps even further as the weeks go on.

You could be onto something because maybe those leaves below the canopy are too cold which are shaded by the large canopy above. So those specific leaves are probably both cooler and shaded from any light? I'll check the temperature of the lower leaves at lights on

She has? Not to my eye. With LEDs I find 5ml/gal every feeding and watering is needed.

26c is perfectly fine with lights on as long as your NOT running LEDs. 84f is what you need for proper LST when running LEDs. google LST (leaf surface temperature) when using LEDs.

Reduce temps?? Bad idea. For some color lights off temps will get your purple to express.

cooler? Shaded from lights?? No it doesn’t work that way. The lower leaves show deficiencies first and will work their way through the whole plant.

 

[InTheShed]

I can run an analysis on the ppm of those nutes later today and see where they land, but from that pic it looks hungry all over.

 

[013]

They do look hungry in that last pic… cal mag is often low percent of mag nitrate..so it’s got the N and mag helps power up chlorophyll

 

[Weffalo]

She has? Not to my eye. With LEDs I find 5ml/gal every feeding and watering is needed.

26c is perfectly fine with lights on as long as your NOT running LEDs. 84f is what you need for proper LST when running LEDs. google LST (leaf surface temperature) when using LEDs.

Reduce temps?? Bad idea. For some color lights off temps will get your purple to express.

cooler? Shaded from lights?? No it doesn’t work that way. The lower leaves show deficiencies first and will work their way through the whole plant.

Thanks mate, appreciate your input. I'm definitely not feeding 5ml/L no, should I really be feeding that high? The CalMag is N based so my EC would be super super high doing that, do you just ignore the increased EC from CalMag? I would estimate it'd be over 3.0 if I added that much CalMag.

Good to know it doesn't work that way, I was under the impression that leaves that don't receive adequate light wouldn't be able to photosynthesize properly and would yellow but I'm no gardener and learning every day. I did read that mobile nutrients would appear from the bottom but non mobile nutrients would actually appear in reverse, from new growth?

The reason I planned to reduce temps as flower progresses is that terps evaporate at higher temperatures. Can you please link to where your reading about LST with LEDs? I can't find that info where it should be 84f but I'm very curious to learn.

 

[zigzagman1960]

In my opinion the light purple petioles on the op’s plant indicate LEDs in use (an LED SUNTAN) but the dark purple petioles on the 013 plant and the dark leaves indicate deficiencies. I mention this to the op because many people who try to help newbs show less than perfect plants as examples and it can be confusing as to what a healthy plant looks like.
unless your plant has purple or blue genetics KEEP EM GREEN TILL HARVEST!

 

[Weffalo]

I can run an analysis on the ppm of those nutes later today and see where they land, but from that pic it looks hungry all over.

Thanks mate I really appreciate that. Here's a chart with just the base nutrients I'm using.

These I believe are the same as General Hydroponics in the US, but the EU division. I did read some things about Lucas Formula which is based on General Hydroponics tri-part but cuts out the Grow completely and uses different ratios for the micro/bloom. It's specifically for hydro but I guess a SIP is kinda hydro? I've seen people use it with success here.