SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

[SweetSue]

I'm just popping a question in here before I go back to reading the rest of the posts. I was reading about a cannaoil that my LP is selling and the description said:
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This oil is very high in THC (30 mg/ml) and has had the terpenes removed, making it both very potent and neutral tasting.


Isn't that a bit like stripping the whole grains from flour, rice, etc.? Aren't the terpenes more important than just a taste/aroma thing?[/FONT]

This is what's referred to as an "isolate", a single cannabinoid separated from the others. As an additive for an individual protocol, this can be invaluable, but in my opinion, and the opinion of many professionals I've studied lately, its best effect is included into the mix. It can't benefit from the entourage effect as an isolate, and the entourage effect potentiates the THC in ways we don't yet understand, or even detect at this point.

So yes, this is misguided production and marketing, apparently more profit-driven than anything else. Change the way the public is trained to see this isolate and train them to use it properly, and I have no problem with it. But ask yourself, what percentage of the population in a legal state is producing their own meds to treat something that requires that level of THC? Again, market-driven.

There's nothing wrong with selling to the market. Sell it to the right market. Be honest about your intentions. Make your money, but try to keep your karma clean.

Wow! We don't look at cannabis in the same way anymore around here do we? I remember when I first started talking to Cajun about all this, less than two years ago, and he expressed frustration at how few understood the medicinal value of the plant they were using just to get high. At the time, I was one of those growing just for recreational purposes. I knew Dale was dying and I determined to keep him high the rest of his life.

How far we've come since then, eh?

Back to class. I'm in the last ten minutes of treating chronic back and neck pain with cannabis, and what I'm learning is making my head want to explode.

Every class, every discussion, the pieces fall into place just a little more.

Guys, we have no idea the true potential of this system we're supporting. What lies ahead of us is so brilliant it gives me goosebumps.

 

[SweetSue]

Magnus, I stopped to leave a message for you, and then forgot when HashGirl distracted me.

A good part of the discussion in this part of the class is about topicals. I believe you may have been led here to develop a topical of your own design, with the input of this gifted band of cannabis warriors. I'm pretty sure that's not a whimsical thought on my part. You come to this group with an enviable background that is a natural place to evolve from. I had a flash a couple minutes ago of the potential future and it was breathtaking enough that I paused the video and came here to tell you this.

The market for a good topical is remarkably wide open and likely to never be overcrowded. If marketing isn't your intent or desire, to develop such a recipe and share it openly with the cannabis community would make you godlike in the eyes of pain sufferers.

I'm headed back to get this class finished up. The two classes, this one and the one on supporting the ECS, go together in many ways. There's going to be some shared material when I get them written.

Thanks for the breath of fresh air.

HashGirl......

 

[SweetSue]

Pardon my ignorance but is this a recipe for a lotion? And, what exactly does the glycerin do?

The vegetable glycerin is used to make a tincture. It's easier to tolerate than ethanol for many people. You can make the tincture either hot, as supergroomer described, or cold, over a period of months.

Why do so many people want to learn how to make concentrated cannaoil over regular cannaoil? It seems so much more complicated than straight cannaoil?

The infused oils are beneficial for many treatments. The concentrated oils are even moreso. Their concentrated nature allows you to formulate medications carrying a much denser cannabinoid load than an infused medication would. If you're treating something as serious as cancer you often want those higher loads.

The concentrated oils are also more adaptable to different administration choices, where the capsules are used as edibles.

What I really want to do is learn to make this ND Sap Gigi learned to make. That stuff makes my blood run faster just thinking about it. She's found a way to make oils that, in my opinion, accelerate action in the ECS. When I first came across her, the hairs on my arms stood up in attention. Lol!

I just want to because for a hobby and to help a friend of mine out. She suffers from PTSD and I almost cured her but I just want to see if the oil works. And otherwhise my Jaguar will run on it
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I can assure you, the oil will work. Where smoking and vaping can offer her immediate relief and generalized maintenance, she can actually stimulate and accelerate healing with oil.

I finished the notes for the class on chronic pain. It'll be a couple days before I get it all written and forematted, so I wanted to share a link to the notes. They're pretty organized at this point and there's a wealth of basic information in there. I didn't want you all to have to wait to look the material over. There's too much pain out there already.

Cannabis For Back Pain, Chronic Pain, & Nerve Damage: Class Notes

I'm gonna get loaded and enjoy some music. Maybe have some yogurt. Maybe not. I just noticed its 12:30 AM. Lol! Ahhhh.... How time flies when you're having fun.

 

[Magnus8]

Hmmm. Another issue to deal with. Another log in the fire, that is sure to complicate my healing.

My wife told me tonight she is leaving me and going back to Sault Ste Marie. She says my diseases are too hard to deal with.

And I've been helping her with her debilitating depressions for 10 years now. I'm floored. Sad. Hurt. But I'm not crying. Yet.

 

[AngryBird]

Hmmm. Another issue to deal with. Another log in the fire, that is sure to complicate my healing.

My wife told me tonight she is leaving me and going back to Sault Ste Marie. She says my diseases are too hard to deal with.

And I've been helping her with her debilitating depressions for 10 years now. I'm floored. Sad. Hurt. But I'm not crying. Yet.

I wrote in your journal thought it was better to answer there.

 

[AngryBird]

Hi SweetSue and Hi to all of you

Now let me see if I got it all in one go

Hashgirl you are the sweetest. Always sweet comments that make me smile of joy
And it is always nice to see you ask question I have thought of to find an answer...so you save me the job

merryali We are all here for you Moral support for bad days, sharing joy on good days..or just make you smile when you are down is in the "package" too

Grow Goddess You are a great "resource" ( you are a person so..I don't mean to insult)
Thank you for joining and spreading your info

Soon I will be making oils/tinctures infusions etc.

In case I forgot someone to you all

 

[Danolo]

As always, a captivating read... thanks to you all...

The question I have is regarding the terpenes. From what i understand there is a loss of terpenes when the product is decarbed with heat, right?

To decarb without heat takes a long time, right?

What about juicing? Would ingesting the whole plant be more beneficial in terms of terpenes?

As you can tell, I'm still learning..

 

[AngryBird]

As always, a captivating read... thanks to you all...

As you can tell, I'm still learning..

We all are still learning so no worries
And yes, decarb naturally takes longer,, see Grow Goddess's post. SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

 

[Magnus8]

I wrote in your journal thought it was better to answer there.

For me, it's about what this current SNAFU will do to my healing journey...

 

[HashGirl]

I'm so sorry to hear this, Magnus.

Hmmm. Another issue to deal with. Another log in the fire, that is sure to complicate my healing.

My wife told me tonight she is leaving me and going back to Sault Ste Marie. She says my diseases are too hard to deal with.

And I've been helping her with her debilitating depressions for 10 years now. I'm floored. Sad. Hurt. But I'm not crying. Yet.

 

[rikvasen]

Magnus you do have my deepest symphaties... I'm sorry to hear it. But everything will get better, you do have us to rely on. Although it may be not much, it is something

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[chadillac5580]

I'm trying to understand how tacking and suppositories do not cause euphoria. I understand swallowing oil (or edibles) converts the Delta 9 THC to 11 THC by the liver, but what about when smoking? Why does smoking get one high, but not tacking or suppositories?

 

[Magnus8]

Thank you all for your kind thoughts. I appreciate it more than you know. I don't know why I'm posting about the end of my 10-year marriage. It isn't really like me to do such a thing. Maybe I'm more upset than I'd like to let on.

HashGirl and Rik and everyone else, you seem like such nice people. Thank you, from the bottom of my broken heart. Gawd, I'm going to start crying again. I hate this.

 

[Magnus8]

Hey, does anyone know some good strains for euphoria? Is that what it is called when cannabis puts you in a good mood? I think I"m going to need some in the coming months. Sure, use a substance to medicate your feelings, Magnus. What would all your AA folk say about that? Well, right now I don't care much what they'd say. I just want these feelings to end.

I'm serious about wanting to know of a couple of good strains that would make me feel better. Does anyone have any that won't make me anxious, too?

 

[Dave Groomer]

Hey, does anyone know some good strains for euphoria? Is that what it is called when cannabis puts you in a good mood? I think I"m going to need some in the coming months. Sure, use a substance to medicate your feelings, Magnus. What would all your AA folk say about that? Well, right now I don't care much what they'd say. I just want these feelings to end.

I'm serious about wanting to know of a couple of good strains that would make me feel better. Does anyone have any that won't make me anxious, too?

As a friend of Bill W, I can say I had great misgivings about using cannabis. I had smoked a lot in college but had not used since getting sober in 92. I believed the hype. When I was diagnosed with MS I started to do my research and started learning the truth about cannabis. I have not had any desire for a drink and I am healthier now. I would not suggest going to your average meeting and talking about it though. I had some hard core AAers that would beat you down verbally for even discussing "drugs" at an AA meeting. Feel free to pm if you want to "talk".

As for your second question, daytime or nighttime? Are you looking for "coach lock" or something more "uppy" for going out and doing things?


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[KingstonRabbi]

I'm trying to understand how tacking and suppositories do not cause euphoria. I understand swallowing oil (or edibles) converts the Delta 9 THC to 11 THC by the liver, but what about when smoking? Why does smoking get one high, but not tacking or suppositories?

A large part of it has to do with avoid the "first pass" through the liver. Even with competitive inhibition some THC gets metabolized into more psycho-active 11-something-THC. A properly placed suppository enters the vena cava which returns to heart and circulates through entire body where it can be taken up by other cells before it ever reaches liver on subsequent passes. Some may also travel through the lymph system avoiding the liver. Occasionally I get one a little to far in and some goes into the portal vein directly to liver, and I feel it.
I don't know specifics of tacking but I assume it follows a similar pathway and gets to body cells first before most of it can reach liver.

So 2 points:
1) avoids metabolism to 11-OH-THC from first pass, and
2) reaches cells before reaching liver.

Even understanding this it amazes me that I don't feel more with the doses I'm taking. Even 10% of a 200 mg dose should create quite a high, but at most it feels like quick vape of a weak strain.

That said, I don't know why vaping gets me high even when I've taken my supplements for competitive inhibition, or what pathway it takes through body.

So I guess I really don't know why I don't get high from suppositories, just a few facts that don't add up to the full picture. Maddenly fascinating stuff.

 

[Magnus8]

I am actually looking for a way to deal with my anxiety without getting high. You say, KingstonRabbi, that you don't get high from suppositories? Am I to understand that most people would get high from them? Is there another means of dosing that I could use that would not get me high but would still control my anxiety? I had thought that suppositories would be the way to go, but I suppose not. I know already that an oral tincture would get me high, and I know that smoking/vaping gets me high. Is there no other way to dose this medication that would not get me high?

The reason I'm asking is because I have a terrible anxiety about driving, especially in the winter. I have to drive 11 km on back country, gravel roads that are seldom cleared or cleaned by my county, just to get to the highway. And night driving, at any time of the year, terrifies me. I do everything I can not to drive, but sometimes it has to be done. Before, my wife would do all the driving, but with her leaving me come the middle of March (that's when the party ends, I was told last night), I'm going to have to do much more driving myself.

And I'm just terrified, right now.

I don't want to have to continue taking my Ativan, but at least I can drive without being stoned on it.

 

[HashGirl]

Magnus, I suppose it's out of the question for you to move closer to town where you could walk or take public transportation as needed?

 

[SweetSue]

Hey, does anyone know some good strains for euphoria? Is that what it is called when cannabis puts you in a good mood? I think I"m going to need some in the coming months. Sure, use a substance to medicate your feelings, Magnus. What would all your AA folk say about that? Well, right now I don't care much what they'd say. I just want these feelings to end.

I'm serious about wanting to know of a couple of good strains that would make me feel better. Does anyone have any that won't make me anxious, too?

Hey buckaroo..... I left you a private message. Don't miss it.

Yes this sucks, but you have some healing to do mister. Give yourself the time you need to fuss and fume, but try to not take this personally. She's unhappy. That's her choice. Make yours happiness. We can help you with that.

Cannabis is a gateway drug away from dangerous drugs, not towards. Wanting to hurt less emotionally is nothing to be ashamed of, and cannabis offers you euphoric relief without dependency. Both supergroomer and I can attest to the Carnival as being a wonderfully uplifting sativa that'll keep you motivated.

I recently had a booming recommendation on the Blue Dream from Chew. Uplifting social high initially, followed by one of his best euphoric experiences with his own produce yet.

I grow the Dark Devil Auto. 65-90 days start to finish and the best damn high I can get in my edibles. She's a good strain for a zippy buzz.

There ya go Magnus. Three decent recommendations to get you on that healing path.

We're here for you Magnus. This community carried me through the grief of losing my beloved at least 20 years earlier than I'd planned. They can carry you through this pain to healing, if you let them.

 

[HashGirl]

If you're looking for a strain to use that will help your anxiety without getting you high, I would suggest you look at Indicas as they relax the mind rather than revving it up.

Personally, I like Nordle but here's an article on Leafly with their suggestions for treating anxiety:

What are the Best Cannabis Strains for Anxiety? | Leafly

There's only one on the list that I'll be trying in the near future and that's Northern Lights that we just started growing this week.

Good luck.