SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

[rikvasen]

So anyway, I did buy those books where I was talking about. Healing hemp, and Marihuana Horticulture. The indoor/outdoor medical grower's bible. which is nice. I also bought a joint roller machine when I don't smoke which is also nice. And 5 autoflowering White Widow seeds because I couldn't handle myself!

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[AngryBird]

So anyway, I did buy those books where I was talking about. Healing hemp, and Marihuana Horticulture. The indoor/outdoor medical grower's bible. which is nice. I also bought a joint roller machine when I don't smoke which is also nice. And 5 autoflowering White Widow seeds because I couldn't handle myself!

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<< that is for first post
you will love the White W Enjoy your books. I love a good book myself. Have a bunch on a hard drive somewhere.. they are from the 70's .
aa SweetSue did you read them?

 

[KingstonRabbi]

I'd be interested in this, too.

I've made cannaoil capsules using 10 parts oil to 1 part Hash Plant and they work AWESOME with my pain/inflammation.

I also made some cannaoil again with 10 parts oil to 1 part Hash Plant and take it with a dosing syringe in increments of .5 ml at bedtime and it helps with my pain and insomnia.

And, I made some cannaoil with a ratio of 5 parts oil to 1 part Hash Plant and it got me flippin' high when I took 1/2 tsp of it.


The part I don't understand is how can the first two noted above work in that one is good for daytime use and one is good for nighttime use but they're essentially the same?

Hash Plant is similar to (actually parent of) Hash Bomb that I grow. They are predominantly THC but have significant CBD. It's enough CBD to counteract sedative effects of THC during day but not enough to interfere with my sleep at night at low doses the few times I've vaped it.

The 1:5 oil may get you high partly because of multi-phasic effects being double strength, but mostly because you are taking a lot more of it. 1/2 teaspoon is 2.5 ml or 5 times the volume of .5 ml dose, and 10 times the THC.

1/3 gram was a very relaxed and calm high. I hadn't considered it recreationally, but I'll have to try a larger dose with my next harvest.

 

[rikvasen]

<< that is for first post
you will love the White W Enjoy your books. I love a good book myself. Have a bunch on a hard drive somewhere.. they are from the 70's .
aa SweetSue did you read them?

Thanks birdie!! I just have to wait for the order to arive. But yeah, those books will be fun! Also the White W will be fun to grow! only problen is that it's is a strong strain to begin with if you've never smoked before! I bought those seeds so I can grow white widow and ofcourse as I already told you, it's legal to sell weed to coffeeshops here in the Netherlands and the White widow is the most famous strain on earth so every coffeeshop will have the strain for sale so that I can supply the coffeeshops (ofcourse not with that much but atleast it's something and it will be nice income for me)

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[HashGirl]

I love the active discussion that picks up in this room. Sometimes I walk into what feels very much like the charged air of actual study.

Come to think of it, that's almost every time through the door. You guys...... you make this room what it is.



Magnus... there are no stupid questions, just questions looking for answers. Sometimes it takes asking more than once, but we don't mind that. You're way ahead of yourself and you have plenty of time. Making CCO for the first time is intimidating, but every one of us that's tried laughed at the end of that first run of washes at the simplicity of it. We've worked out all kinds of little tricks. I assure you, we'll have you all ready to go when the time comes. Give yourself the breathing space to learn to grow and let the processing information settle comfortably in.

The link you have on making CCO is the best one available for a large batch. Study those first couple pages until it's become part of your DNA. Walk yourself through the process in your mind. I'm talking about engaging all of your considerable creative powers to experience what you're reading about.

Tim did an excellent job of bringing you right into the experience. This'll be child's play for you.

You don't use the lecithin until you have the oil made. I believe there's a standing recommendation to let the oil cure for a short time. Can anyone verify or correct this for me? I promise, I'm learning to keep this all in, but this is an experiential thing and I still lack the time in.

It'll be liquid sunflower lecithin. It contains components we're taking advantage of that get stripped out when you process it into powder or granules. Look in that online rainforest we never openly name.

Speaking of lecithin, I found the two articles that Old Hippy posted about on his Beyond Chronic website about why he doesn't use lecithin anymore:

Lecithin: The Dark Side of a Dietary Supplement


Common dietary fat and intestinal microbes linked to heart disease

I must admit that in my normal high state on Saturday nights, I haven't read either yet but I wanted to post them while I was thinking of it since I actually got the links a couple of months ago and keep forgetting.

 

[HashGirl]

Glad I could help.


And, thank you, too. I'll have to blog this so I can re-read it when I'm not high(ish).

Hash Plant is similar to (actually parent of) Hash Bomb that I grow. They are predominantly THC but have significant CBD. It's enough CBD to counteract sedative effects of THC during day but not enough to interfere with my sleep at night at low doses the few times I've vaped it.

The 1:5 oil may get you high partly because of multi-phasic effects being double strength, but mostly because you are taking a lot more of it. 1/2 teaspoon is 2.5 ml or 5 times the volume of .5 ml dose, and 10 times the THC.

1/3 gram was a very relaxed and calm high. I hadn't considered it recreationally, but I'll have to try a larger dose with my next harvest.

 

[Magnus8]

Cannabis infused Coconut Oil (CO) is wonderful for so many things. There is no need to delineate them on this thread. But one thing it is not good for is as a topical, and the reason for that lies in the nature of CO itself.

CO is a great carrier oil. It is healthy when ingested, does some great things I hear when used in medicine. But as a topical... it sucks.

The skin is a semi-permeable membrane. It allows passage into the body of some materials. It allows passage out of the body of some materials. It does not allow passage either way of all materials. This, again, is something we all know.

The skin allows passage of H2O quite easily. That's why your fingers get all wrinkly when you sit in the bathtub.

The skin likewise allows easy passage of oils -- SOME oils, but not others. CO is one of those oils which is not easily passed through the skin membrane, if at all. That's why, when we use CCO as a straight topical, it leaves the skin so greasy that you could slap a hockey puck across your aching back 10 yards (if your back were that long, that is).

The skin, however, allows passage of H2O much more readily than almost all oils.

(Yes, I'm going someplace with this founding base of ideas and truths.)

All oils can be infused with herbs, not just CO. We infuse CO with the herb cannabis because it has so many other health-affirming properties inherent in it, and I think it has something to do with bioavailability, but I've no medical or science background so I don't understand this concept of bioavailability.

It stands, therefore, that if CO can be infused with cannabis, it makes sense that any other oil can be infused with it, some having some properties, some having others.

We primarily infuse CO with cannabis because of the properties it has when injested, used as a suppository, etc. We don't infuse it for the properties it has as a topical.

Rather, we need another carrier oil to infuse with the herb cannabis.

My proposition, for all those out there who care to make topicals for themselves or their loved ones (or even those they hate but who pay them well) is that we figure out those properties important for us in a carrier oil that can be infused with Cannabis.

That is the task before us.

1st Property: Transmission

Transmission from the surface of the skin into the core of its membranes and deeper is paramount. For it is this transmission quality that will determine how effective the carrier oil will be at carrying the cannabinoids under the skin, into the muscles, at the core of the nerves and throughout the body via the bloodstream.

2nd Property: Skin-"Loving-ness"

The ability of the carrier oil to "love" your skin means that the oil is capable of rejuvenating dry skin, refreshing elasticity, calming down redness and itch and irritated patches. In short, the ability of the oil to love your skin (your skin will surely love these oils back!).

3rd Property: Availability

All the greatest oils in the world are no good to us if they are not available. Some are more easily available than others. Walnut Oil is available in many supermarkets while Sweet Almond Oil is not. Shea Butter is available in some pharmacies while Emu Oil in only select few. If and oil is transmissible, skin-loving AND readily available, then it is a good bet as an oil we could consider to be our carrier oil (or in some other way be present in our concoction).

4th Property: I think that's enough for now, don't you?

So we've ascertained that CO is not a good carrier oil for our precious cannabis herb. What would be a good oil, then? I'll give you a few. Don't worry if you've never heard of some of them. They are all readily available from several different websites that I will list in a later posting as long as you have either a credit card, debit card, paypal, or some such other form of acceptable payment.


I am proposing that you use your favourite method of infusion to develop an infusion of the cannabis into your chosen oil from the list below. If you don't know how to infuse oils, you can certainly pm me. I'd be glad to help.

1st Carrier Oil: Grape Seed Oil
Possibly the most easily available carrier oil to find, as it sits on nearly all grocery store shelves. It is a medium weight oil, but it sinks into the skin medium to longer amounts of time. The message to be heard here is that it DOES sink in. So infuse it with cannabis, add some beeswax and you've got a simple butter that will carry your cannabis down through the pores and into the muscles, tendons, fibres and bloodstream itself. It too, like CO, may be ingested.

2nd Carrier Oil: Sweet Almond Oil (not to be confused with Bitter Almond Oil)
A light oil, soaks into the skin in a medium amount of time, but soaks in completely, too. WARNING: You MUST NOT INGEST this oil.

3rd Carrier Oil: Shea Butter
A very heavy oil, comes as a paste or hardlike block that must be melted down. A little goes a very, very long way and since most people use much too much, the skin surface is left greasy and oily. But it does soak in, it's just that most people use too much of it to soak in completely and the skin gets saturated and cannot take any more. Not the best choice as a primary infusion, but wonderful to add to your mix in small amounts to add incredible -- and I mean incredible -- skin loving features to your concoction (you don't have to have only your carrier oil, your beeswax and your GMSO in your concoction. you can also choose to make a butter for the skin that is nourishing and skin loving in its own right.)

4th Carrier Oil: Walnut Oil
A very heavy oil, available on many grocery store shelves. It sinks in well, but leaves a greasy film behind. This is fine if used as a supporting oil in very small amounts. If used in small enough doses, that greasy film will just be felt as skin softness and skin smoothness.

5th Carrier Oil: Pumpkin Seed Oil
This one is only available primarily from soapcrafting and lotioncrafting websites and suppliers. That's no problem. I'll give links to those places in a later post. But it is a freakin' BRILLIANT carrier oil for what we are trying to do here. We are trying to find a carrier oil that transmisses the skin cleanly, effectively and rapidly. That is exactly what PSO does! After applying this oil to the skin, within brief moments, no oiliness remains. None. Nada. Zip. It's just miraculously gone! Actually, it's not a miracle at all. The oil has simply sunk into the skin. And if this Carrier Oil can sink into the skin so damned fast, and if this Carrier Oil is infused with Cannabis, then think just how fast those cannabinoids are sinking in with it, eh? Look out to the horizon (side angle shot), a vista of a rising sun (camera dollys into closeup) and imagine the possibilities...



So there you have it. Some information to start our thinking off, and possibly a conversation or two, as well. Rethink this blind adherence to using CO as your carrier oil for all your infusions. There are a plethora of oils available to us for our use and each has its good points and bad points. What we need to do is clarify our own desires, our own goals, our own medicinal priorities, our own time commitments and our own budgets to determine how far we want to delve into the world of making butters and lotions for our own healing or the healing of others.

I've given you some background information. Some of it will come into play in a later posting. Some of it has been helpful to us here, in this discussion. I hope you have learned from what I've tried to teach today. If not, it is because the message was worded wrong, and I invite you to make me clarify my words by healthy repartee with me.

But please, if you take one thing away from this posting, please take away that you are not married to Coconut Oil as being the only carrier oil available to your needs. What works for one (or many) applications does not necessarily work for all. Butters and lotions require their own set of rules.

 

[HashGirl]

Oh, and I accidentally found out I could get high using Hash Plant when the cannaoil I took to help me sleep got me totally blasted on a work night. Sue and the team here talked me down as I was kind of freaking out when it was obvious I was high and not falling asleep when I had to be at work in the morning. But once they talked me down and I decided to bail on work, I just enjoyed the high.

 

[SweetSue]

Sounds AWESOME to me! You could start a Magnus' Canna Lotion & Creams Study Hall like Sue has done with her Cannabis Oil Study Hall.

Excellent idea! Magnus, let me second this idea. A thread dedicated to cannabis topicals can only come to good. I'd consider this. You have so much information to dive into and some cool experimentation ahead.

 

[Dave Groomer]

Cannabis infused Coconut Oil (CO) is wonderful for so many things. There is no need to delineate them on this thread. But one thing it is not good for is as a topical, and the reason for that lies in the nature of CO itself.

CO is a great carrier oil. It is healthy when ingested, does some great things I hear when used in medicine. But as a topical... it sucks.

The skin is a semi-permeable membrane. It allows passage into the body of some materials. It allows passage out of the body of some materials. It does not allow passage either way of all materials. This, again, is something we all know.

The skin allows passage of H2O quite easily. That's why your fingers get all wrinkly when you sit in the bathtub.

The skin likewise allows easy passage of oils -- SOME oils, but not others. CO is one of those oils which is not easily passed through the skin membrane, if at all. That's why, when we use CCO as a straight topical, it leaves the skin so greasy that you could slap a hockey puck across your aching back 10 yards (if your back were that long, that is).

The skin, however, allows passage of H2O much more readily than almost all oils.

(Yes, I'm going someplace with this founding base of ideas and truths.)

All oils can be infused with herbs, not just CO. We infuse CO with the herb cannabis because it has so many other health-affirming properties inherent in it, and I think it has something to do with bioavailability, but I've no medical or science background so I don't understand this concept of bioavailability.

It stands, therefore, that if CO can be infused with cannabis, it makes sense that any other oil can be infused with it, some having some properties, some having others.

We primarily infuse CO with cannabis because of the properties it has when injested, used as a suppository, etc. We don't infuse it for the properties it has as a topical.

Rather, we need another carrier oil to infuse with the herb cannabis.

My proposition, for all those out there who care to make topicals for themselves or their loved ones (or even those they hate but who pay them well) is that we figure out those properties important for us in a carrier oil that can be infused with Cannabis.

That is the task before us.

1st Property: Transmission

Transmission from the surface of the skin into the core of its membranes and deeper is paramount. For it is this transmission quality that will determine how effective the carrier oil will be at carrying the cannabinoids under the skin, into the muscles, at the core of the nerves and throughout the body via the bloodstream.

2nd Property: Skin-"Loving-ness"

The ability of the carrier oil to "love" your skin means that the oil is capable of rejuvenating dry skin, refreshing elasticity, calming down redness and itch and irritated patches. In short, the ability of the oil to love your skin (your skin will surely love these oils back!).

3rd Property: Availability

All the greatest oils in the world are no good to us if they are not available. Some are more easily available than others. Walnut Oil is available in many supermarkets while Sweet Almond Oil is not. Shea Butter is available in some pharmacies while Emu Oil in only select few. If and oil is transmissible, skin-loving AND readily available, then it is a good bet as an oil we could consider to be our carrier oil (or in some other way be present in our concoction).

4th Property: I think that's enough for now, don't you?

So we've ascertained that CO is not a good carrier oil for our precious cannabis herb. What would be a good oil, then? I'll give you a few. Don't worry if you've never heard of some of them. They are all readily available from several different websites that I will list in a later posting as long as you have either a credit card, debit card, paypal, or some such other form of acceptable payment.


I am proposing that you use your favourite method of infusion to develop an infusion of the cannabis into your chosen oil from the list below. If you don't know how to infuse oils, you can certainly pm me. I'd be glad to help.

1st Carrier Oil: Grape Seed Oil
Possibly the most easily available carrier oil to find, as it sits on nearly all grocery store shelves. It is a medium weight oil, but it sinks into the skin medium to longer amounts of time. The message to be heard here is that it DOES sink in. So infuse it with cannabis, add some beeswax and you've got a simple butter that will carry your cannabis down through the pores and into the muscles, tendons, fibres and bloodstream itself. It too, like CO, may be ingested.

2nd Carrier Oil: Sweet Almond Oil (not to be confused with Bitter Almond Oil)
A light oil, soaks into the skin in a medium amount of time, but soaks in completely, too. WARNING: You MUST NOT INGEST this oil.

3rd Carrier Oil: Shea Butter
A very heavy oil, comes as a paste or hardlike block that must be melted down. A little goes a very, very long way and since most people use much too much, the skin surface is left greasy and oily. But it does soak in, it's just that most people use too much of it to soak in completely and the skin gets saturated and cannot take any more. Not the best choice as a primary infusion, but wonderful to add to your mix in small amounts to add incredible -- and I mean incredible -- skin loving features to your concoction (you don't have to have only your carrier oil, your beeswax and your GMSO in your concoction. you can also choose to make a butter for the skin that is nourishing and skin loving in its own right.)

4th Carrier Oil: Walnut Oil
A very heavy oil, available on many grocery store shelves. It sinks in well, but leaves a greasy film behind. This is fine if used as a supporting oil in very small amounts. If used in small enough doses, that greasy film will just be felt as skin softness and skin smoothness.

5th Carrier Oil: Pumpkin Seed Oil
This one is only available primarily from soapcrafting and lotioncrafting websites and suppliers. That's no problem. I'll give links to those places in a later post. But it is a freakin' BRILLIANT carrier oil for what we are trying to do here. We are trying to find a carrier oil that transmisses the skin cleanly, effectively and rapidly. That is exactly what PSO does! After applying this oil to the skin, within brief moments, no oiliness remains. None. Nada. Zip. It's just miraculously gone! Actually, it's not a miracle at all. The oil has simply sunk into the skin. And if this Carrier Oil can sink into the skin so damned fast, and if this Carrier Oil is infused with Cannabis, then think just how fast those cannabinoids are sinking in with it, eh? Look out to the horizon (side angle shot), a vista of a rising sun (camera dollys into closeup) and imagine the possibilities...



So there you have it. Some information to start our thinking off, and possibly a conversation or two, as well. Rethink this blind adherence to using CO as your carrier oil for all your infusions. There are a plethora of oils available to us for our use and each has its good points and bad points. What we need to do is clarify our own desires, our own goals, our own medicinal priorities, our own time commitments and our own budgets to determine how far we want to delve into the world of making butters and lotions for our own healing or the healing of others.

I've given you some background information. Some of it will come into play in a later posting. Some of it has been helpful to us here, in this discussion. I hope you have learned from what I've tried to teach today. If not, it is because the message was worded wrong, and I invite you to make me clarify my words by healthy repartee with me.

But please, if you take one thing away from this posting, please take away that you are not married to Coconut Oil as being the only carrier oil available to your needs. What works for one (or many) applications does not necessarily work for all. Butters and lotions require their own set of rules.

I have one of my patients that I need to rework the cream for. I am going to try infusing some Grapeseed oil tonight and making it for her. The Pumpkin oil looks good, but it may be too expensive. Thanks for the tips!!!

 

[chadillac5580]

Does anyone have a link to a breakdown of bioavailability? I'm curious about the percentage of:
- Smoking Flower
- Vaping Oil
- Ingesting CCO
- Oromucosal CCO
- Sublingual CCO

 

[Magnus8]

Personally, I reading your posts no matter what you're writing about. But since this thread is supposed to be about cannabis oil and other related stuff, I find that writing about other stuff in my life in an off-topic general thread is a nice way to express myself without worrying about moderators and other members wanting me to get back to talking about cannabis stuff here. If you're interested in my ramblings, the link to my off-topic thread is in my signature line called "A Stoner's Random Thoughts' Blog".

Just something to think about, my friend. No pressure.

Thanks so much, HashGirl,

I'd definitely check it out in a bit. Right now I'm debating the value of decarboxylating for topicals and whether or not to do it with the wife-bot.

I can't help what I write. I've been taking a rather liberal approach to what my healing entails. They talk about homeostasis here, which to me means whole body healing. That is why I talk about the important life events. They are part and parcel of my pain, my depression, my anxiety. The way working on my book heals me is different from the way cannabinoids heal me, but in other ways there are similarities.

I think the problem Cajun had with me was the length of my posts, not what I wrote about. The length of my posts has to do with the way I write, not what I write about. And the way I write has been honed over many years. It is hard, if not impossible at this point, to change.

But I truly appreciate your concern and support. You truly are great in my eyes. Thank you.

 

[Dave Groomer]

Does anyone have a link to a breakdown of bioavailability? I'm curious about the percentage of:
- Smoking Flower
- Vaping Oil
- Ingesting CCO
- Oromucosal CCO
- Sublingual CCO

You forgot rectal.

 

[Magnus8]

Magnus, at the bottom left of everyone's post is a button that says "Blog this Post". That's what I use when I want to remember stuff that I'm learning here on 420. You can make different Blog categories and save whatever post your blogging where appropriate. It's definitely a handy feature.

Thanks SOOOO Much, HashGirl!!!

I wondered what that feature was. Now I know. And I'll use it. Often. Thanks again.

 

[Magnus8]

For daytime pain relief, I like CBD Medi-Haze and CBD Skunk Haze.

I also like Crop King's Hash Plant, appropriately enough. I made cannabis-infused oil with it and it depends on the oil:cannabis ratio whether I use it for daytime or nighttime pain relief. All I know is that it works great for my rheumatoid autoimmune condition. Last night my left knee was about an 8 on the pain scale of 10 being lots of pain and 1 being little pain and after I took one of my canna capsules, the pain was reduced to about a 3. Much better in my opinion.

Thanks, HashGirl. I'll look into it for the next seed order.

 

[Magnus8]

Use liquid sunflower lecithin. Granule form lacks glycophospholipids or something like that, which is what you want. Soy lecithin is usually GMO.

Link to complete recipe below makes about 90-100 "00" capsules at 10-11 mg CCO per capsule. You can adjust the 1:20 CCO:carrier oil ratio to increase strength. I made my last batch at 18:3 ratio (same total of 21 gr, plus same amount of oil/lecithin to make about 80 gr mixture for 96 capsules at 195 mg each).

SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

Edit: or adjust ratio down as needed. I don't think you want to try my capsules!

Hey KR,

No, I don't want to try what you're using. You'd have me stoned for a week! Blotto! Buggery! Blooping! Blah blah blathering like an idiot.

But thanks for the info. If I can ever decipher it, I'll let you know.

(I will. I just need to have a clear head and the wife-bot beside me.)

 

[Magnus8]

Sounds AWESOME to me! You could start a Magnus' Canna Lotion & Creams Study Hall like Sue has done with her Cannabis Oil Study Hall.

THAT is the kind of reply I LOOOOOVE.

I would, seriously, love to do something like this. Anyone know how to get something like this started? I don't know how to open my own "room".

 

[Magnus8]

Excellent idea! Magnus, let me second this idea. A thread dedicated to cannabis topicals can only come to good. I'd consider this. You have so much information to dive into and some cool experimentation ahead.

I agree. totally. I would LOVE to do this.

Can you help me get the authority to set it up and help me to set the thing up? I can take it ffrom there, np. Hey, it'll get me out of this room, as I'm sure many would be happy to see me go.

 

[Magnus8]

I have one of my patients that I need to rework the cream for. I am going to try infusing some Grapeseed oil tonight and making it for her. The Pumpkin oil looks good, but it may be too expensive. Thanks for the tips!!!

Where are you trying to purchase the Pumpkin Seed Oil from? Try a company called, "Safari Blue". I'm sure they are in the States as well as Canada. They have some of the best Canadian prices on oils. Yes, it can be pricey, but I'd think about picking up a smallish bottle and see what it can do. You can chalk it up to experimentation. And if your friends are not already helping you pay for your ingredients, maybe if you had a more efficient oil for them to use they'd be willing to chip in. Just maybe? No?

 

[HashGirl]

Magnus, all you have to do is go to the top of this page and you'll see that it reads from the left to the right below the green menu --> Forum-->MEDICAL MARIJUANA-->Methods of Medication --> Cannabis Oil --> SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall.

Click on Methods of Medication, which will take you back to the main page for Methods of Medication and, either Post A New Thread and create your Canna Cream & Lotion Study Hall thread or click the sub-heading Cannabis Cream and start your new thread there. Here's the link for that part if you're interested:

Cannabis Cream

Once you get it up and going, let me know so I can subscribe. It will be so much fun. I can't wait.

THAT is the kind of reply I LOOOOOVE.

I would, seriously, love to do something like this. Anyone know how to get something like this started? I don't know how to open my own "room".