SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

[SweetSue]

Hi SweetSue, yes, I check fb routinely, been looking for ways to improve the method that I use, but haven't had any coherent comments about improving the process. After a few years of daily dosing I can report no serious negatives, just lower blood pressure and some balance issues. The key to getting past half a gram per day was discovering the no-low THC strain called "Wife". It has replace Charlotte's Web in my garden because it has more CBD, less THC and is easier to grow. I try to keep a couple of those going along with a GDP or a Blue Dream. Getting the garden down to a few minutes a day has made this much easier. I see that you are a fan of skin treatment with the oil, can you comment on how it compares to the usual cortizone cremes? My experiments with topical application led to an unexpected discovery about preservatives in skin lotion, that you need them. Not the bad kind with parabens, but the more modern types like Optiphen. Transdermal delivery is an area that I am interested in, looking for a pain relief creme. I am currently testing a frankincense spray on my knees and leg muscles. All I can say for sure is that it has a strong aroma.

This basic pain cream I made works really well on pain. When I rub it in I can feel the muscles relax. I added a couple BioBomb capsules to mine and the next time I make some (as soon as I have a supply of oil again) I'm going to copy Cajun's using a 5:1 carrier oil:CCO ratio. He couldn't find his recipe to share with us, but he did say it had aloe in it and that it was effective for the pain and skin disruption from chemo. That's got to be some potent pain relief, I'd think. My cream has been performing very well to heal the psoriasis that's dogged me for years, but I know it can be made more powerful.

One of these days I'll have the time to devote to a study of the essential oils. I have a friend that dabbles in them, so I can call on her as a resource until I can get to that study.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Nice to see that you are still working this problem, tenacity gets rewarded with results. I am still looking for a dosage amount for edible cannabis oil treatment. Have you seen such a thing? Rick Simpson suggested a gram a day, or perhaps 2 a day, depending what you read, against active disease, but reduced to a "maintenance dose" after the disease has been eliminated. Numbers, we need numbers and at least a few case studies, to understand if there is an optimum dose. Evidence would be nice, in the absence of scientific studies. As a reminder, I'm the guy who has been making and taking edible oil for about 4 years, attempting to prevent the regrowth of a brain tumor that was surgically removed. Making the oil at home has become easier after doing it a few times and the rate of ethanol recovery, using the small still, is improved to around 80%. I find that a half gram dose of an all-CBD strain's oil in the AM and a 200-350mg dose of THC containing oil in the PM is tolerable, with minor side effects. The most noticeable effects are low blood pressure and decreased balance/coordination. Recently I grew some GDP and find it to be an excellent strain for smoking on it's own and the extracted oil is about what you would expect, quite strong and sedative. Best wishes to the medical pioneers in Study Hall.

circuit, what a pleasant surprise. We'll be working on this one for a while. I haven't yet found any information on maintenance dosing other than generic references to amounts all over the place. The rumblings in the medical community have been about doses being too high, if anything. Without lab data to pull from we're still wandering blind there. If I come across anything, now that you've alerted me to the need, I'll be sure to forward it to your FB page.

Will you still be checking there periodically?

The biggest issue with getting any accurate dosages is that, as Sue mentioned, we don't have access to labs to actually test the THC & CBD (etc.) content of our meds.

Rick Simpson says to start with a pure Indica (or, no more than 10% Sativa) that's at least 20% THC.

Here is his dosage info:

DOSAGE INSTRUCTIONS

It usually takes the average person about 90 days to ingest the full 60 gram or 60 ml oil treatment. I suggest that people start with three doses per day, about the size of a half a grain of short grained dry rice. The patient should take this dosage every 8 hours, early in the morning, then again in the afternoon and then they should take their final dose of the day, about an hour before bedtime. It should also be noted that as a patient begins to ingest this oil, the patient does not normally feel the oils effects until about an hour after they have taken their dosage, so please be aware of this fact. A beginner’s dose such as I am describing would equal about ¼ of a drop.

After four days at this dosage which should be taken three times a day, most people are then able to increase their doses by doubling the amount of their dosage every four days. By following this simple procedure, many patients have reported that they felt that they had not experienced the high, which this oil can cause. But in truth no two of us are the same and we all have different tolerances, so some will be able to up their dosages more quickly than others. In reality, even if one does become what is commonly referred to as being high this will not harm them in any way, if the oil they are ingesting was produced from the sedative strains of Indica, which I recommend and the resulting oil was produced in the proper way.

It takes the average person anywhere from 3 to 5 weeks to get to the point where they can ingest 1 gram or 1 ml per day. Once they reach this dosage they can continue at this rate until their medical issues are brought under control. This means that after the patient has become accustomed to the oils use, each dose they are ingesting will equal 8 to 9 drops every 8 hours and in many cases, I have seen patients that have had no trouble ingesting even far more. It takes a dosage roughly the size of two grains of short grained dry rice to equal one drop, so once the patient has become accustomed to the oils use they are actually ingesting doses which equal 16 to 18 grains of rice per dose.

In some cases I have even seen patients who had no fear of this medication, ingest the full 60 gram treatment in one month and after doing so, many of them were declared to be cancer free.
By using the method which I am describing, it allows your body time to build up a tolerance for this medication slowly and once the patient becomes accustomed to the oils effects, most patients actually report that they enjoy taking it.

We all have different tolerances for any medication and your size or body weight has little to do with your tolerance for hemp oil and even children can take the same dosage as adults, with no detrimental effects.

It still doesn't give specific levels of THC/CBD, but even if it did, how would we know?

 

[Arctic Bowl]

Always such great information here and the kindness is overwhelming. Wish that my wife an I would have found this site and it's wonderful people 2 years ago but, we are very thankful we have such a group to cover our backs.

 

[SweetSue]

Always such great information here and the kindness is overwhelming. Wish that my wife an I would have found this site and it's wonderful people 2 years ago but, we are very thankful we have such a group to cover our backs.

If you put your trust in the loving force that drives the universe you begin to understand that everything happens in its right time. Everything that happens in your life happens for you. You're evolving, and this is just part of the process. You're at an exciting point in both of your lives, where what you're going to witness as she heals and you heal in ways you didn't anticipate will transform you, and there won't be any turning back.

You'll find yourself being called upon to share this knowledge you're gaining. It'll be an irrestible pull. I think every one of us who's ever helped someone find healing with cannabis ends up feeling completely humbled and then driven to spread the word.

But first, we help you find freedom for your wife. Do you have any idea when you'll be starting to make oil?

 

[AngryBird]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

My friend with a brain tumor is OK with having polio injected into his tumor and doing chemo but refused to take the CCO capsules I made for him. He is still smoking occasionally. I tried explaining they weren't for getting high that they were to help with symptoms and possibly help get rid of the bad cell's while helping the good cell's but he wasn't having it. I wasn't holding out hope but did have a tiny amount of hope that it would help. We do have other friends with pain issues that don't want to be on opiates who we are sharing the CCO with per their request and will let you know how it works for them.

Thanks again sue for all of your help!

As Sue said. It must be frustrating knowing you have the help and it is not wanted.

The biggest issue with getting any accurate dosages is that, as Sue mentioned, we don't have access to labs to actually test the THC & CBD (etc.) content of our meds.

Rick Simpson says to start with a pure Indica (or, no more than 10% Sativa) that's at least 20% THC.

Here is his dosage info:



It still doesn't give specific levels of THC/CBD, but even if it did, how would we know?

Mr.K you ALWAYS come to the rescue I also have read that every person is individual and dosage needs to be leveled up and then leveled down for maintenance. The dosage is epending on the patient and the condition.

If you put your trust in the loving force that drives the universe you begin to understand that everything happens in its right time. Everything that happens in your life happens for you. You're evolving, and this is just part of the process. You're at an exciting point in both of your lives, where what you're going to witness as she heals and you heal in ways you didn't anticipate will transform you, and there won't be any turning back.

You'll find yourself being called upon to share this knowledge you're gaining. It'll be an irrestible pull. I think every one of us who's ever helped someone find healing with cannabis ends up feeling completely humbled and then driven to spread the word.

But first, we help you find freedom for your wife. Do you have any idea when you'll be starting to make oil?

 

[infiniteJuan]

Edit: moment... I'll post after I read rest of thread.

Okay, I had a couple pages to catch up on... and I'm still only a couple pages in at the front side of this thread. So much information, I'm struggling to find time to take it all in. I'm also scrambling a bit on the growing side of things, with harvest coming up soon and all. I'll need to re-read somewhat too because it all doesn't stick the first time around.

Excellent info and discourse in this thread. One thing I wasn't able to ascertain with full confidence was the amount of oil used in Tricycle's recipe. Is it 7 grams cannabis to 1 tablespoon olive oil? or something other?

 

[AngryBird]

 

[circuit]

The biggest issue with getting any accurate dosages is that, as Sue mentioned, we don't have access to labs to actually test the THC & CBD (etc.) content of our meds.

Rick Simpson says to start with a pure Indica (or, no more than 10% Sativa) that's at least 20% THC.

Here is his dosage info:



It still doesn't give specific levels of THC/CBD, but even if it did, how would we know?

From my acquaintances in the business who have their extracts tested, the number 50% was given as an estimate of the amount of THC in the oil, because of the method that I use. They suggested that I could increase the % by using a different method, a closed loop extraction for example. But I'm fine with the 50% level in a full plant extract done with ethanol. What I'm looking for is any evidence based dosage information that ties together the condition being treated with a dose and duration. There have been quite a few diseases treated with cannabis oil, you would think that a pattern would become apparent as far as what is working and what is not. I am put off by the blind enthusiasm of many advocates. I firmly believe that cannabis should never have been illegal, but as far as a medical treatment, let's see what it works against before celebrating. The evidence of cancer cures is pretty thin, but as far as palliative care, this oil may be the single best treatment available. Yes on the Indica dominant strains, I find hybrids like Blue Dream and Ambulance to be enjoyable, the oil from GDP turned out to be so sleepy that it gets used only at night.

 

[TricycleOfDoom]

Edit: moment... I'll post after I read rest of thread.

Okay, I had a couple pages to catch up on... and I'm still only a couple pages in at the front side of this thread. So much information, I'm struggling to find time to take it all in. I'm also scrambling a bit on the growing side of things, with harvest coming up soon and all. I'll need to re-read somewhat too because it all doesn't stick the first time around.

Excellent info and discourse in this thread. One thing I wasn't able to ascertain with full confidence was the amount of oil used in Tricycle's recipe. Is it 7 grams cannabis to 1 tablespoon olive oil? or something other?

Hi. I used 3/8 cup of coconut oil. Olive oil is good too.

DooM

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using 420

 

[SweetSue]

Edit: moment... I'll post after I read rest of thread.

Okay, I had a couple pages to catch up on... and I'm still only a couple pages in at the front side of this thread. So much information, I'm struggling to find time to take it all in. I'm also scrambling a bit on the growing side of things, with harvest coming up soon and all. I'll need to re-read somewhat too because it all doesn't stick the first time around.

Excellent info and discourse in this thread. One thing I wasn't able to ascertain with full confidence was the amount of oil used in Tricycle's recipe. Is it 7 grams cannabis to 1 tablespoon olive oil? or something other?

I didn't even notice until you pointed it out that he'd left that out of the recipe. I'll repost it with the correction. The recipe called for 3/8 cup of carrier oil (coconut is what he used, you could also use olive or another acceptable oil). 3/8 cup = 6 Tablespoons.

 

[SweetSue]

From my acquaintances in the business who have their extracts tested, the number 50% was given as an estimate of the amount of THC in the oil, because of the method that I use. They suggested that I could increase the % by using a different method, a closed loop extraction for example. But I'm fine with the 50% level in a full plant extract done with ethanol. What I'm looking for is any evidence based dosage information that ties together the condition being treated with a dose and duration. There have been quite a few diseases treated with cannabis oil, you would think that a pattern would become apparent as far as what is working and what is not. I am put off by the blind enthusiasm of many advocates. I firmly believe that cannabis should never have been illegal, but as far as a medical treatment, let's see what it works against before celebrating. The evidence of cancer cures is pretty thin, but as far as palliative care, this oil may be the single best treatment available. Yes on the Indica dominant strains, I find hybrids like Blue Dream and Ambulance to be enjoyable, the oil from GDP turned out to be so sleepy that it gets used only at night.

I know there's data being collected, because we have so many legal states coming up to speed that it's inevitable, but most of that isn't going to be released until they take the plant off schedule one, and even then it may be years before we have access to the data that demonstrates patterns.

To be realistic, we have no way of knowing if it's not the placebo effect in full force, with the power of the mind to drive the endocannabinoid system back into health so that the ECS can once again be in control of system balance. It's been accepted for some time that the brain has the potential to heal anything you put that power behind with absolute faith. Lab work and well-thought-out research. That's what we need. It's frustrating that all the money and energy went into tracking the product and not into tracking the medicinal effects in human patients. Once again, money took priority.

 

[Arctic Bowl]

If you put your trust in the loving force that drives the universe you begin to understand that everything happens in its right time. Everything that happens in your life happens for you. You're evolving, and this is just part of the process. You're at an exciting point in both of your lives, where what you're going to witness as she heals and you heal in ways you didn't anticipate will transform you, and there won't be any turning back.

You'll find yourself being called upon to share this knowledge you're gaining. It'll be an irrestible pull. I think every one of us who's ever helped someone find healing with cannabis ends up feeling completely humbled and then driven to spread the word.

But first, we help you find freedom for your wife. Do you have any idea when you'll be starting to make oil?

Sue ( our Guardian Angel) it's because of people like you that us newbies even stand a snowballs chance.............. This is at times very very difficult to deal with, the frustration pisses me off and I do my best not to show it. You know all to well what it is to watch the one you love go thru this crap. I love being positive, it's my mission, although I get frustrated with things just like everyone else, I choose to not be depressed, I choose to enjoy our time together and do everything I humanly can to aid in my wife's recovery.

Thanks for all you do for us Sue, you truely are a God send.

Blessed Buds and watch for our pics of our 1st try at olive oil canabus lol, should be a hoot

 

[SweetSue]

Sue ( our Guardian Angel) it's because of people like you that us newbies even stand a snowballs chance.............. This is at times very very difficult to deal with, the frustration pisses me off and I do my best not to show it. You know all to well what it is to watch the one you love go thru this crap. I love being positive, it's my mission, although I get frustrated with things just like everyone else, I choose to not be depressed, I choose to enjoy our time together and do everything I humanly can to aid in my wife's recovery.

Thanks for all you do for us Sue, you truely are a God send.

Blessed Buds and watch for our pics of our 1st try at olive oil canabus lol, should be a hoot

I'll be watching. You're in for a treat.

You're doing a great job in the role of loving and supportive mate too.

 

[Arctic Bowl]

Thank you Sue!!! My wife is and always will be my princess we tried our hand at olive oil infused with canabus tonight. Got it setting on the counter settling out right now. Our plan is to make a tincture for J to aid in her recovery, she has enjoyed the tincture we got in Seattle but wants more kick to it than what this has.

She doesn't care much for the head buzz of smoking bud but, the body buzz aids her resting. Me, I'll take the head buzz, body buzz or what ever lol. I did have to smoke a bit of this bud before I could cook it down, lol, yea I know, bad husband but, it's hard to toss these buds into a pan. I was like...... DAMN, could be stoned for a few weeks on this but then reality sets back in and you know your trying to heal your loved one. Still hard to do though lol.

Thank you again Sue for being here for us, holding our hand, kicking our ass and getting us on track. Your the best Sue!!!!!

 

[AngryBird]

Thank you Sue!!! My wife is and always will be my princess we tried our hand at olive oil infused with canabus tonight. Got it setting on the counter settling out right now. Our plan is to make a tincture for J to aid in her recovery, she has enjoyed the tincture we got in Seattle but wants more kick to it than what this has.

She doesn't care much for the head buzz of smoking bud but, the body buzz aids her resting. Me, I'll take the head buzz, body buzz or what ever lol. I did have to smoke a bit of this bud before I could cook it down, lol, yea I know, bad husband but, it's hard to toss these buds into a pan. I was like...... DAMN, could be stoned for a few weeks on this but then reality sets back in and you know your trying to heal your loved one. Still hard to do though lol.

Thank you again Sue for being here for us, holding our hand, kicking our ass and getting us on track. Your the best Sue!!!!!

hugs to your wife and we are all here to send you both good energy and love

 

[KeifKeith]

Hi Sue,

Again, thanks for the hard work and wonderful information resource you have established in this forum. It's almost criminal that MM is only now becoming more commonly tried and tested on a myriad of health issues, a sad testament to our laws and corporate ways. But, it is changing, and folks like you are inspiring me!

I have read and read, and read some more, probably more than is healthy. I don't want to ask questions that haves already been posed and answered, I'm not lazy. Many months later, I think I am finally ready to attempt to help a family member with a condition called neurofibromatosis type 1 (NF1), a genetic anomaly causing uncontrollable tumor growth. The tumor locations can and do occur most anywhere in the body, along any nerve bundles or nerve branches. We have tens, if not hundreds of thousands of nerve bundles in our bodies. It is a fairly rare condition, and most people with NF are asymptomatic or have minimal afflictions. Not so for my son, he has a moderately severe case, but he has managed to live a good life despite severe challenges. Pride I tell you! His Docs (many docs) said he wouldn't survive past 18 years old, that puberty would likely cause the tumor growth rate to skyrocket. It did, but he persevered and is still self-supporting and active at 30 years old, albeit with several hundred tumors throughout his body. Everyday life and work is a major challenge for him, but does it without complaint. Ok, throat getting tight here ...There is a movie that was made in the 80s called "Elephant Man" relevant to the subject just in case it's been seen. The subject of the flick was a severely afflicted child, of course with Hollywood theatrics added for effect. It was a sad and true story of a very extreme case likely caused by a combination of Neurofibromatosis type I and Proteus syndrome.

On to the situation and question(s):
Treatment Options with MM CCO ...
I am not good at asking for help, I am usually the person helping others. As is true in most families, my role has morphed over the years, from child to parent, from dependent to supporter, and I'm now the family alpha guy. I'm supposed to be the leader and wise one, but I don't know what I'm doing with this planned treatment. Honestly, I'm a bit fearful (I usually am nearly fearless), "do no harm" looms large.

I obtained three strains of high CBD MM (seeds), started them in the seedling trays, and will grow them over the next 4 months or so. Two broke ground this morning, and the others will follow soon. Growing I know, plants I know, smoking herb I know, I have decades of experience in most all matters of recreational cannabis, but treating with MM and CCO ... I don't know! Everything I read directs me to produce high CBD MM, and that process has been initiated and will be available in about 120 days. I have a good stash of cured buds (my own strain concoctions, I like breeding) to make CCO right now. I followed your tutorials last night, my laptop in the kitchen during the whole process, and I now have a oral syringe with about 7 cc of CCO ... STICKY STUFF! So now that I have some medicine in hand, I am frozen in place regarding administration route, dosing and I guess just generally hesitant. Grrrrr ... not me at all. Being parent isn't easy work sometimes; I read your posts about the struggles that challenge your daughter, so I know you understand well, I try very hard too.
I'm try to put together a dosing and administration plan ... but where do I start? I'm not mentally succeeding since I am inexperienced; Tincture, Capsules, Carriers, Tacking, Edibles, Inhalation, Juicing ...

Please take your time with any response, time is not critical. I can only imagine how swamped you are with requests for help, forum and PM (I'll PM you back as soon as the site says I am worthy! Thank you so much for considering my request for help, really really thanks!

Keith

 

[SweetSue]

I'm here for you Keith. Take a deep breath. I know exactly how you feel. It won't last long, because now you're going into the actual healing stage and you're going to be amazed and filled with wonder instead. We're all lab rats here Keith, and unfortunately, they didn't leave us a trained research technician or a plan to work from, other than what's been cobbled together by the sweat and tears of the lab rats that went before us. Kinda maddening, isn't it?

Fortunately, we can proceed and experiment without any concerns of hurting our loved ones. The only side effect you might have trouble with is euphoria, and there are ways to overcome that.

You're fighting tumors. That takes high THC. The recommended mix is 2:1 THC:CBD for treating tumors, so I recommend right off the top that you plant something with at least 20% THC.

The ratio you're suggesting, is this specific to this disease? Everything I've paid attention to in my free fall wanderings suggests the 2:1 THC:CBD. There's so much information out there I have to fall into top opportunist form and dive right in, expecting forces of intuition to guide me, and they most often do. CBD would most certainly be called for here, because that many tumors are going to cause major inflammation, and nothing hits that or the related pain better than CBD. But I know of no strain that'll give you high CBD as well as 20% or higher THC and it's the THC that does the heavy work of clearing tumor cells.

The traditional approach is to combine the strains together to get one oil that meets your needs. You've already done that. So, what to do with it, eh? I want to do some research on the disease before we go to work on the particulars of the protocol. Can you direct me to any sites you've found most helpful? Send me links by PM. I'll do some digging and then we can sit down and hammer something out.

You're probably going to start with tacking anyway, and it'll preceed any suppositories, so you can start that now. Have you familiarized yourself with tacking? I can't deal with it myself, but I also lack the motivation of a serious disease. Cajun suggested that you put the tack on a small piece of bread and place it under the tongue if tacking is problematic. The "no swallowing" rule still applies. The guys who man the tacking thread can best help you with tacking. Start small and build up gradually. Try for three tacks a day at first. Those small tacks you do before a dose help get the system primed for the major cannabinoid load coming up. You've prepared for pre-dosing to promote competitive inhibition? Have you taken any steps to demethylate?

I know, it's a lot, but only because it's new. I assure you, a man of your intelligence will catch on quickly.

My personal choice would be to start with capsules. Chewey and I are trying to make sense of the BioBomb recipe we have, because we suspect it's overloaded with carrier oil, but the basic concept of mixing CCO, carrier oil (I'd suggest olive in your case) and lecithin gives you tremendous bioavailability. Lecithin is strongly suggested for protecting the nerves, which appear to be significantly under stress with this particular malady, so if he's not taking lecithin now, I'd look into that. Capsules may be where you want to begin to get serious. I'm assuming he gets regular labs done? You start and after a time you get tested. You look at the test results and adjust accordingly.

If this is treated as aggressive tumor eradication you're probably going to need suppositories to get the quantity of cannabinoids in there. So you're looking at all three approaches, IMHO. You have the ability to begin tacking right now. You can easily make a small batch of capsules, say with half a gram or one fourth a gram so you don't end up with too many that you won't need because you'll be making them stronger. After you get the dose high enough you switch to getting the majority of the cannabinoids through suppositories. However, if you're on capsules and the labs come back positive, why mess with success? Suppositories aren't everyone's favorite method of administration. We don't hesitate to use them when we need to, but let's not jump there prematurely, you know what I mean?

So, send me any relevant links and give me a day to look into neurofibromatosis type 1, to see what special concerns we need to take into consideration. Fear not Kieth. I have absolute faith in your ability to get this done. You've simply attached too much emotion to it. Man, can I understand that! In a minute you'll breathe easier and it'll clear. Then you'll be able to see how easy and basic and life-affirming what you're undertaking is. Get excited Keith. Your life just changed.

And Keith..... seriously....... you couldn't be a bother. This is what I do. Make use of me.

 

[Mr. Krip]

OK...I know if I post this in my journal Sue would ask me to re-post it here, so I'm cutting out the middle-man!

[video=youtube;G2uuO1c6-Tw]

[/video]

 

[SweetSue]

Thank you Mr. Krip. I appreciate the addition.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Thank you Mr. Krip. I appreciate the addition.

You trained me well!