The Butcher's Slaughter (Breeding Journal)

Re: Te butchers slaughter (breeding journal)

just got here... wow great stuff butcher, you thoroughly exercized my brain today. didnt know breeding in plants was so complicated
 
Re: Te butchers slaughter (breeding journal)

thats what healthy babies should look like. here we go. . . .
 
Re: Te butchers slaughter (breeding journal)

hey butc, cobra ohm asked about the naming of the seeds, you might have missed it,

let me pretend i won MOM already (which i haven't so everyone please vote for me ;) ) and answer it cool? lol.

Well defining the terms P1, F1, F2, homozygous, and heterogygous can be a simple task, however, applying them to applied genetics can often create confusion. Seed banks can pretty much call them whatever they want because there is no definite set standard. there are some good texts, and good general rules established, i think its just a matter of time.

Heterzygous - a condition when two genes for a trait are not the same on each member of a pair of homologous chromosomes; individuals heterozygous for a trait are indicated by an "Aa" or "aA" notation and are not true breeding for that trait.

Homozygous - the condition existing when the genes for a trait are the same on both chromosomes of a homologous pair; individuals homozygous for a trait are indicated by "AA" or "aa" and are true breeding for that trait.

- Now the heterozygous and homozygous terms can be applied to one trait or a group of traits within an individual or a group of individuals. Depending on your point of reference, an individual or group can be considered both homozygous or heterozygous.

For instance, say you have two individuals that are both short (S) and have webbed leaves (W) and have the following genotypes.

#1 = SSWW
#2 = SSWw

They are both homozygous for the short trait but only individual #1 is homozygous for the webbed leaf trait. Individual #2 is heterozygous for the webbed leaf trait and would be considered a heterozygous individual. As a goup, they would be considered heterozygous in general by some and homozygous by others. It would depend on your point of reference and the overall importance you place on the webbed leaf trait. Most would consider it to be heterozygous.

For example, the blueberry cannabis strain is considered a true breeding homozygous seed line because as a whole the many offspring have a similar look and produce a similar product. However there are often subtle differences between the plants of characters such as stem color and potency. When taking a close look at blueberry, you will find heterozygous traits, but because of the whole overall look, we still generally consider them homozygous for the purpose of breeding programs.

Hybrid - An individual produced by crossing two parents of different genotypes. Clarke says that a hybrid is a heterozygous individual resulting from crossing two separate strains. a hybrid is in general, a cross between any two unrelated seed lines.

F1 hybrid - is the first generation of a cross between any two unrelated seed lines in the creation of a hybrid. F1 hybrids can be uniform or variable depending on the P1 parent stock used.

F2 hybrid - is the offspring of a cross between two F1 plants (Clarke). What Clarke and other sources don't make clear is; do the two F1's need to be from the same parents? By convention they don't. As well, german geneticists often describe a backcross of an F1 back to a P1 parent as a F2 cross.

- OK lets say we take blueberry and cross it with romulan (both relatively true breeding of their unique traits) to create the F1 hybrid romberry. Now lets cross the F1 romberry with a NL/Haze F1 hybrid. Some could say this is a F1 cross of romberry and NL/Haze (RNH). Others could argue that it is a F2 cross of two F1 hybrids. Gets confusing doesn't it? Now lets cross this RNH with a Skunk#1/NL#5 F1 hybrid to create RNHSN. Now some would argue that RNHSN is an F1 hybrid between RNH and SK/NL seedlines. Others would call it an F2.

- So what does this mean to the consumer? It means that a seed bank can call a cross whatever it wants until the industry adopts some standards. Clarke eludes to standardising these definitions but never really gets around to it. Fortunately other plant breeding communities have (Colangelli, Grossnickle&Russell, Watts, &Wright) and adopting their standards makes the most sense.

Watts -

defines an F1 as the heterozygous offspring between two homozygous but unrelated seedlines. This makes sense and gives the F1 generation a unique combination of traits; uniform phenotype but not true breeding. This is important in the plant breeding world. This means that F1 seeds should produce uniform results. It also means that the breeder's work is protected from being duplicated by any other means than using the original P1 (true breeding parents).
[There are exceptions to this by using techniques such as repeated backcrosses (cubing the clone)]

F2 crosses are the offspring of crossing two F1 hybrids. This means that they will not be uniform nor will they breed true. However, F3, F4, F5, etc will also share these characteristics, so to simplify terminology for the seedbanks and seedbank merchants, they can all be classified as F2 seeds in general.

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It's easy to be confused by terms that have more than one interpretation, depending on the context. F2 seeds are generally considered by the seed-buying public to be an inferior product. This may be a true statement – for example, in the case of a seed bank selling Jack Herer seeds WITHOUT STATING that they were created by crossing two Jack Herer plants from Sensi Seed Bank’s F1 stock. These seeds are an F2 generation of Jack Herer in the classic definition of the term. The F2 generation is NOT going to produce the same results as the F1 in terms of the similarity of the plants in the group…they will vary in their characteristics rather than all of them being essentially identical. Such a scam rips off the buyer expecting a uniform crop of Jack Herer.

Now here’s the “kicker” – because of the negative connotation of the example of an F2 above, some have the mistaken impression that any member of the F2 generation is undesirable as a plant. This is NOT necessarily true. Quite the contrary; the F2 generation is a treasure trove of possibilities. The recombination of genes produces a variety of different plants, among which there may be individuals of great value. This is actually the source for future true-breeding strains. A breeder who recognizes an outstanding and unique individual from an F2 group can work with it to create a true-breeding hybrid strain such as was done with classics like Skunk #1 and Northern Lights. The methods to accomplish this task vary, but back crossing to the original unique plant is typically a part of a process which ultimately must accomplish the goal of creating a strain which breeds true for all the important traits which made the unique individual so valuable.
 
Re: Te butchers slaughter (breeding journal)

on this one the shell of the seed was stuck and would not allow the true leaves out, soo I did a risky move and removed it CAREFULLY, not the first time but always scary as hell!!
Click to expand...

This is SO common. I hit it almost every time I grow a group of seeds. You dealt with it perfectly, and yes, it's a bit scarry every time I do it. Great job!

Cheers!
 
Re: Te butchers slaughter (breeding journal)

np, and i agree with tead, i end up having to pull the shells off a bunch if i do a bunch. also agree with the scary comment. i have popped a couple heads off in my day.

btw,

Clarke RC. 1981. Marijuana Botony Ronin Publishing, California

cali cal cali, yeah, yeah, yeah.
 
Re: Te butchers slaughter (breeding journal)

Does anyone here ever give the seeds a little crack before attempting germination? Reading a post about the seed pod not fully opening and thought I would ask.
 
Re: Te butchers slaughter (breeding journal)

ive heard about scratching the outside of the seeds but cracking it i think would damage the seedling inside
 
Re: Te butchers slaughter (breeding journal)

Ice thread bro! This is a must see so plan on hearin from me!
 
Re: Te butchers slaughter (breeding journal)

SO AM I..I enjoy challenges.We'll try it when this first round of seeds comes out. You guys just gotta remind me when it comes time and i'll do it forsure, then we can all know forsure if it effects it or not.

And to all who have suggestions on something they wanted to know about just ask and if i have the products available to try the experiment the we'll do it here foar all to see.
 
Re: Te butchers slaughter (breeding journal)

hey butcher, i'm strapping in for this one. it's gonna be a long road. :grinjoint:
 
Re: Te butchers slaughter (breeding journal)

so here's some picts. Sorry about the late update. Not alot going on.I picked out the rainbow kush and bubba kush plants that will be put in the breeding boxes. and check these out. The la women is a mutant, shes got 2 heads. I know women have two sides to them but damn!!!

Here she is L.A WOMEN:

IMG_2824.JPG


IMG_2810.JPG


Heres 4 out of the 6 Purple widow ladies, the others were just to weak for me so i just yanked em. My goal is to have 2 males and 2 females:

In my experiences in the past the strongest always comes out a male, This would be the i definetly suspect to be a male. But we'll just have to document and see, i also feel the last pict is a male as well. hope so!!
LOL most people hate those words..

IMG_2818.JPG


IMG_2816.JPG


IMG_2812.JPG


IMG_2811.JPG


and heres the bubba waiting for her lover..LMAO

IMG_2825.JPG


and now the rainbow kush (after taking this pict i had to adjust her p.h as well but all is well now):

IMG_2828.JPG




:Rasta:
 
Re: Te butchers slaughter (breeding journal)

i've never seen anything like that LA woman. craziness man. they look really healthy though. the leaves on that bubba are so wide. how tall is she?
 
Re: Te butchers slaughter (breeding journal)

Really impressive journal and such awesome strain choices!
 
Re: Te butchers slaughter (breeding journal)

...explain..

please?
 

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