To Sweeten or Not to Sweeten!

[Far East Buds]

I am a 4 year rookie at growing and have been on here for some time. (i skipped a couple years in here somewhere) I have a question I was hoping some vet's would chime in.

I grow perpetual and have no issue with most of my yields. But in search of more dense nugs I thought I would increase my light total PPm in flower. (1000)

So in a conversation with a friend he mentioned he does not run a sweetener. I run Sweet Raw from Botanicare. He says it does not increase his yield. Just the aroma. He finds it messy. He recommended increasing my bulker (Mag Pro Dyna Gro) and ditching or cutting way back on the Sweet. His nugs are dense and we both run a very similar setup lights and all.


What does everyone on 420 think?
Has this convo come up before?

Thanks in advance!

Peace

FE

 

[StoneOtter]

Hi Far East, I've used Sugar E in a couple of grows. Also Molasses in the last one. I've used none as well. I like Molasses for taste so far. Size of nugs and density is secondary for me. Don't get me wrong I love giant frosty colas but I found the sugar e flavored ok, but I want to taste the weed. Enjoy

 

[KingJoe83]

I am a 4 year rookie at growing and have been on here for some time. (i skipped a couple years in here somewhere) I have a question I was hoping some vet's would chime in.

I grow perpetual and have no issue with most of my yields. But in search of more dense nugs I thought I would increase my light total PPm in flower. (1000)

So in a conversation with a friend he mentioned he does not run a sweetener. I run Sweet Raw from Botanicare. He says it does not increase his yield. Just the aroma. He finds it messy. He recommended increasing my bulker (Mag Pro Dyna Gro) and ditching or cutting way back on the Sweet. His nugs are dense and we both run a very similar setup lights and all.


What does everyone on 420 think?
Has this convo come up before?

Thanks in advance!

Peace

FE

I would agree with your buddy more cal mag and potassium needed in flower then nitrogen and other growth elements

 

[pontiacman]

I used the sweet grape a couple of times and didn't see any effects at all. It just smells good and the final product was the same as any. Molasses is my go to in every grow. Gotta feed those bacteria! Lol....

 

[Far East Buds]

Thank you for the responses all!
I appreciate it !
I am going to start backing off on the sweet in the next startup. If I don't see any ill effects I may stop it completely.
Thanks again!


Peace


FE

 

[saltybluegrass]

I would agree with your buddy more cal mag and potassium needed in flower then nitrogen and other growth elements

would you respond to my thread please? this specific flower time is exactly what i’m asking there - Outhinking nute schedule - thanks

 

[Papageno]

I use it for totaly different purposes than you. I feed microbes with it constantly. I use a few different brands some cheap some spendy.

You my freind would do fantastic running my tea with it once every few weeks.

IMO it became very popular for the wrong reasons and gets used by us microb guys now all hush hush...like don't tell anyone this is what it is really for.

Have you posted to your journal lately?

 

[Far East Buds]

I use it for totaly different purposes than you. I feed microbes with it constantly. I use a few different brands some cheap some spendy.

You my freind would do fantastic running my tea with it once every few weeks.

IMO it became very popular for the wrong reasons and gets used by us microb guys now all hush hush...like don't tell anyone this is what it is really for.

Have you posted to your journal lately?

Good to hear from you... I made a small post recently. I'm all in the veg so it has been boring.... Flower I will ramp it up a little.. The lights in there went on today

So I know sweet in flower is feed for the microbes. Some say too much and you make them lazy... Some say let them eat away.. There is always two sides to it all.... or more...

I have run the last two years live and non... But my feed has remained steady or close to it.

I've tried nematodes. Mycorrhizae. Enzymes... Non Chlorinated water.... etc... I have had decent results and been pretty pleased. But live never popped as I would have thought... There is so much to it. And I am annoyingly anal about that stuff... Bennies need to breed.. feed... be in perfect environment Time to develop etc to thrive. I never felt like I nailed that...

So I went back to real simple.. Sorta sterile... Just Flying skull Enzymes and feed... I had really "steady" results for a long time... No complaints....

But If I can make the nugs more dense I am all in.

So I have had along convo with a RL buddy who said the same thing about a weekly tea and Good brewed soil. (different guy than the sweet question)

But by the time I was done talking to him he even kinda agreed with me...

I currently run the easiest.. Laziest setup I could figure out... If I start brewing tea's and hand feeding etc my garden time will increase substantially.
Coco makes daily feedings with a rez.. Drain to waste.. Really low maintenance. My Rez stays super clean ( i battled ick years ago )

I couldn't run a tea through it.

BUT....... I have been thinking on it and if there is a way to make the feedings easier than manual. I am not opposed to brewing up the feed myself.

I toyed with soil and just feed water daily.. Tea once a week ...That is closer to a possibility....

Anyway I am rambling... Glad you keep finding me...

What do you think?

Peace

FE

 

[Papageno]

I like watching your grows. You do what I wont do for all the reasons I wont do them.

You do a fantastic job doing the thing I hate the most. I would never try drain to waste my elders would rise from their graves and remove my man parts.

But you have great fun in your grows which I find fantastic to watch...and you listen.

So many coco growers have there heads screwed on sideways so for the wrong reasons the chose your method.

You choose it for the right reasons...IMO.

I may I think in "this case" ... like with a newb it is better to grow soil. I say things all the time to newbs like you should avoid hydro right now.

I don't dont talk to experts on here. We would have different conversations.

I had one 30 min ago with a real pro. We are talking about no drain growing. Get this.

He doesnt want there to be any run off because he doesnt want to deal with the extra watering. I have done this many times it ain't hard but...he showed me this guy here who bbn is an indoor guru in Or. He has this no drain method using totes with compost and you water very infrequently.

So he is asking me how many plants he should run in these big totes if we dont have run off.

I ran with no runoff for years but then stopped mainly because runoff helps with humidity the cheap way. But I always ran big pots for my roots to be over sized and never had problems with no runoff in compost.

So he outright refuses to use fabric pots.

He wants to pay for as few a trips as possible to the site. So no runoff watering.

Hilarious why people choose what to do. He has too many workers and too many expenses and wants it down for the winter. So no fabric pots LOL.

Sorry rambling ...what's yer question.

 

[Papageno]

I remember now your question. LOL

So you were saying...Meh to the tea forgetting it saved your ass once a long time ago.

The deal is what the real growers call incremental gains.

Before you are a great grower you can convince yourself of all sorts of things. I do it still. I fail at something and even if I blame myself not the method I say I know better I am now doing this.

So fast forward and now let's say you could grow confidently in any medium and get top quality stuff...many people can. So if you can max a genetic potential in any medium what is next...yield right?

But how does one get max genetic potential and yield...what is max?

How many tricks do you have in your bag? Foliar feeding is an easy one that does improve a lot of things...and I don't do it. I should if I wanted better plants. Maybe mine are good enough for me so I don't care about the extra yield and reduced veg time. I just grow it out slow and take a whole extra week and don't bother. But I am a failure and not maxing the potential.


Now the point is newbs try things and wow that worked so now I am doing this. Experts try things and have great plants already and are like ...Meh big deal...my program is fine.

But if you stack up incremental gains of this trick and that trick and the other bam bam bam you got something really nice.

The fact is however just about any program is improved by tea. So if it didn't work for you either you did it wrong...or you have stellar plants on an amazing setup which cannot be improved upon.

What's more likely?

 

[Far East Buds]

I like watching your grows. You do what I wont do for all the reasons I wont do them.

You do a fantastic job doing the thing I hate the most. I would never try drain to waste my elders would rise from their graves and remove my man parts.

But you have great fun in your grows which I find fantastic to watch...and you listen.

So many coco growers have there heads screwed on sideways so for the wrong reasons the chose your method.

You choose it for the right reasons...IMO.

I may I think in "this case" ... like with a newb it is better to grow soil. I say things all the time to newbs like you should avoid hydro right now.

I don't dont talk to experts on here. We would have different conversations.

I had one 30 min ago with a real pro. We are talking about no drain growing. Get this.

He doesnt want there to be any run off because he doesnt want to deal with the extra watering. I have done this many times it ain't hard but...he showed me this guy here who bbn is an indoor guru in Or. He has this no drain method using totes with compost and you water very infrequently.

So he is asking me how many plants he should run in these big totes if we dont have run off.

I ran with no runoff for years but then stopped mainly because runoff helps with humidity the cheap way. But I always ran big pots for my roots to be over sized and never had problems with no runoff in compost.

So he outright refuses to use fabric pots.

He wants to pay for as few a trips as possible to the site. So no runoff watering.

Hilarious why people choose what to do. He has too many workers and too many expenses and wants it down for the winter. So no fabric pots LOL.

Sorry rambling ...what's yer question.

I've talked with a buddy about no drain.. It didn't really appeal to me.. But running perpetual as I do they all get the same feed all the way until flush. So new small plants in flower get a lot of drain to waste. But the older plants drink it up and barely need to drain... I shoot for 20% in mid flower. But really as long as I see drain at all from each I feel pleased. some more some less...

Then some believe dryer medium causes bigger roots searching for water then feed heavier later to let those big roots drink... I can go on and on...

For me it's simple... thats the right way! What ever is simple!

oh the question was about does sweet additives in flower help nugget density... I think the answer was yes if live more so than if sterile. If everything else is adequate for feed in a sterile system little gain...


I saw a new post to this so let me continue there...

 

[Papageno]

So...wrong answer....what causes nugs to be fluffy? Reverse that and you get dense nugs.


Sugars are helpful for other things not just the microbes but not density per day. It does help with resin production in weak plants. All it is is sugar and if it gets taken up it works like sugar. The plant is full of it already. It sort if helps at night have access when it can't photosynthesis but that doesn make them dense.

In my opinion you unfluffy them which is get it cold.

You want it warm for fast vegetative growth which is still happeneing through much of bloom. But then when the resin hits. Cool it down.

 

[Far East Buds]

I remember now your question. LOL

So you were saying...Meh to the tea forgetting it saved your ass once a long time ago.

The deal is what the real growers call incremental gains.

Before you are a great grower you can convince yourself of all sorts of things. I do it still. I fail at something and even if I blame myself not the method I say I know better I am now doing this.

So fast forward and now let's say you could grow confidently in any medium and get top quality stuff...many people can. So if you can max a genetic potential in any medium what is next...yield right?

But how does one get max genetic potential and yield...what is max?

How many tricks do you have in your bag? Foliar feeding is an easy one that does improve a lot of things...and I don't do it. I should if I wanted better plants. Maybe mine are good enough for me so I don't care about the extra yield and reduced veg time. I just grow it out slow and take a whole extra week and don't bother. But I am a failure and not maxing the potential.


Now the point is newbs try things and wow that worked so now I am doing this. Experts try things and have great plants already and are like ...Meh big deal...my program is fine.

But if you stack up incremental gains of this trick and that trick and the other bam bam bam you got something really nice.

The fact is however just about any program is improved by tea. So if it didn't work for you either you did it wrong...or you have stellar plants on an amazing setup which cannot be improved upon.

What's more likely?

Now we are talking!

I don't feel any of us are growing to max yield or potential. And yes what is max? If you tested and ran max feed's and overabundance of lights, foliar.. Etc you could still find ways to improve..

For me it became quality and ease of grow..

I don't save popcorn buds etc.. I ditch entire plants that are super fluffy or stressed. I don't change feeding schedules for any flower plant. That thing will just have to like it or NEXT... try a new strain.

The list goes on and on for the things I could improve... And yes I am aware tea will do that for me. It will gain yield and possibly the density of nuggets I seek. But... At the cost of the extra labor.

As I said I don't sacrifice on yields so to add labor is usually the issue for me. I got tired of stringing plants on bamboo sticks... So i scrogged my whole grow. Which also should help for an even canopy and yield. But again this should be no more labor for better results. Those are the improvements I like.

So I am sorta like you I am like Meh if it doesn't make it too much harder I am all for it. I read plants better than ever. But Sometimes the garden does feel like a part time job and the easier the better.

last week I convinced myself that I was going to do a run of soil.. So nothing is ever not a consideration.

Peace

FE

 

[Far East Buds]

So...wrong answer....what causes nugs to be fluffy? Reverse thay and you get dense nugs.


Sugars are helpful for other things not just the microbes but not density per day. It does help with resin production in weak plants. All it is is sugar and if it gets taken up it works like sugar. The plant is full of it already. It sort if helps at night have access when it can't photosynthesis but that doesn make them dense.

In my opinion you unfluffy them which is get it cold.

You want it warm for fast vegetative growth which is still happeneing through much of bloom. But then when the resin hits. Cool it down.

I was under the belief and I believe based on just others info I read or talk about...
That resin production was largely based on the dark cycle and light cycle of flower having at least a 10 degree F swing.. Causing the plant to react by producing resin... Less about the temp and more about the swing...

But again.. Not my info but I have been trying to follow it...

FE

 

[Papageno]

So those are 2 different things.

Fluff is from heat. Resin is at night. You got all the facts just the message may be off.

So if you are real hot in the day the resin burns off and the flowers fluff out. That is sugar independant.

Now the incremental gain here is that if you have it all dialed...at night if it can get just a bit more sugar it can keep going a little more.

So yes you can get more resin if you are dialed and doing another trick correctly.

Who am into say...I dump sugar in mine liberally because I want super high microbial activity. I want 10 year old compost now. And I get super high activity that works wonders compared to just dumping in sugars on dead soil like I used to do.

Until I ran microbes up dumping in sugars had an ok effect. But now it is what I run on. Water and sugar really. But you knew that.

So I get rock hard nugs and all I give is sugar water... and I say it's the heat

 

[saltybluegrass]

i’m falling prey to the bullshit- i want some bud sweetener/thickener then i read budx is pot ash and debunked my hopes - claiming turpene and resin production has to be measurable. they can’t just lie? lol let me show you my tackle boxes!!
Trying to dial in a method with hopes -
my first flower feed in soil is sunday- so i’m staring at this aray of liquid plant death to see what i mix.

 

[saltybluegrass]

So those are 2 different things.

Fluff is from heat. Resin is at night. You got all the facts just the message may be off.

So if you are real hot in the day the resin burns off and the flowers fluff out. That is sugar independant.

Now the incremental gain here is that if you have it all dialed...at night if it can get just a bit more sugar it can keep going a little more.

So yes you can get more resin if you are dialed and doing another trick correctly.

Who am into say...I dump sugar in mine liberally because I want super high microbial activity. I want 10 year old compost now. And I get super high activity that works wonders compared to just dumping in sugars on dead soil like I used to do.

Until I ran microbes up dumping in sugars had an ok effect. But now it is what I run on. Water and sugar really. But you knew that.

So I get rock hard nugs and all I give is sugar water... and I say it's the heat

how does that go for an autoflower under 24 hr light? i read a lot about the light cycle and felt comfortable with set it and forget it. 24/7 . They are hearty as hell but time will tell the nugget growth

 

[Papageno]

Most people do a 16 hour on for auto bloom.

Resin production happens all the time. But durring the day it is not as fast as it is decaying until late bloom.

Late bloom is all that matters. What you see before the end is a facade. If you harvest 2 weeks early it has nearly no potency. It all happens at the end.

It freaks and pushes hard. And that is the ripening.

There are a few tricks to make it reain early.

There is really just flower formation till the very end. The bloom is 12-16 and only 4 of them really are about resin. Some strains like 2 or 3 weeks. It just dumps it out at the end.

This is what is called incramental gains. Similar to harvest before lights come on. Store in the dark...there is a long list of things we do to prevent light damage to the THC to keep as much as you can.

There is a lot happening at night that you want the plant to cycle. I do 24 hours in veg often when I am lazy. I dont have my timer up yet so i am doing that. But i wouldn't if i wasn't so lazy because i understand it makes a happier plant to see its daily cycle. And happier plants make better resin.

But veg doesn't matter how happy in fact you kinda want them irritated in veg.

 

[saltybluegrass]

i’ll post a pic of week 6 tonight They are looking great just not very tall maybe to heat- i read another guy only uses bloom nutes during flower and pushes the plant hard at 13-16 this is probably where us newbies overreact with wanting to “help” the plant too early- don’t shoot til you see the whites of their eyes!!

it’s a lot of patience actually - i used to walk in my back yard last year where i had a 5’ growing and sing the Christian Hymm I go to the garden alone, while the dew is on the roses....
My grow is a homecoming for me and gives me reason to get up and do something - that’s why this Massive - depressive guy loves his medicine-

 

[Far East Buds]

So those are 2 different things.

Fluff is from heat. Resin is at night. You got all the facts just the message may be off.

So if you are real hot in the day the resin burns off and the flowers fluff out. That is sugar independant.

Now the incremental gain here is that if you have it all dialed...at night if it can get just a bit more sugar it can keep going a little more.

So yes you can get more resin if you are dialed and doing another trick correctly.

Who am into say...I dump sugar in mine liberally because I want super high microbial activity. I want 10 year old compost now. And I get super high activity that works wonders compared to just dumping in sugars on dead soil like I used to do.

Until I ran microbes up dumping in sugars had an ok effect. But now it is what I run on. Water and sugar really. But you knew that.

So I get rock hard nugs and all I give is sugar water... and I say it's the heat

That's one of my dilemma's on microbes. From my research they really need to have the time to develop. Thus to really have a good effect they need to be in the soil breeding before you use it. Most of my attempts at it they didn't seem to have adequate time to do so. My nematode attempt made my gnats go crazy in reproduction instead of killing them off.

I think the plan at this point is to get back up and running same as I was prior but with some of those subtle changes. When I see the results from all that then I will start rethinking of the Tea again.

Does Tea work as well in Coco?

Peace

FE