Veg and Flowering tent: perpetual setup

[Weffalo]

Hi all

So I'm getting ahead of myself and planning my next grow, I already have a 4x4 ready I'm just sorting stuff out so I can get it setup in the house.

My plan is to move my current grow (3 autos, soon to be SIP!) into the 4x4 and start using my existing tent and light as a veg tent. Ideally I'd like to work towards some sort of perpetual setup where I am harvesting regularly, I smoke a ton and I'd also love to start making my own extracts eventually.

My plan is to use the 4x2 with the TSL2000 as a veg tent and then move those plants to the bigger 4x4 for flowering which is going to have probably a KS5000 in it. My only issue is how to plan out how many plants I can veg in the 4x2, I am thinking 4 plants would be ideal for the 4x4 but I'm just not sure I can comfortably veg that many in a 4x2?

I was thinking that because I'm doing SIP it's going to be tough fitting 4 buckets inside the 4x2 and this plan might work better by using coco because I can use 3gal for veg and up-pot to 5gal or bigger for when they go into the 4x4?

Just wondering if anyone has any advice or experience with the matter and can advise The other idea I had if this is a less than ideal veg/flower setup is just use the smaller tent to constantly have some autos going but I know photos are generally better and easier and if I could get a perpetual going that would obviously be optimal, I can't really afford to wait so long between harvests especially as I'm learning and I know they will be less-than ideal for a while.

I know you shouldn't run before you can walk but I'm more than willing to subject myself to a trial by fire and learn as I go/fail

 

[garybo]

I know you shouldn't run before you can walk but I'm more than willing to subject myself to a trial by fire and learn as I go/fail

@Weffalo , with a plan you have presented, I would be surprised if your "trial by fire" isn't successful.

Be sure to update your progress, I for one will be looking forward to seeing it.

Thanks for your post and take care my friend.

 

[Sparkey224]

My bad, have no idea how this replied. Couldn't delete it.
Sorry about that!
Cheers

 

[Azimuth]

Hey Weff,

I grow with a perpetual harvest so I'm happy to share my thoughts with you first, and then will answer your questions.

Most strains take anywhere from 7-12 weeks for flower which doesn't include the transition period immediately after flip. So, if you plan to grow plants with various flower times, you'll have to find the best common denominator. I grow strains that are typically 9-10 week flowering strains. So I started with one plant harvested each month (3 plants staggered 4 weeks apart.) That gave me a 12 week cycle for each plant. So a week to 10 days of transition plus 10 weeks of flowering plus a bit of extra time in case a plant ran long.

So, I started a plant every month, gave it a month to veg and then flipped it and started a new plant. But now that I'm growing with SIPs and the plants are so much bigger I have moved instead to 2 plants in flower, 6 weeks apart from each other (also 12 week total flowering time).

This works out great with SIPs since there is typically a 2 week transition period for the roots to adjust and then 4 solid weeks of veg.

So that's how I do it anyway.

Ideally I'd like to work towards some sort of perpetual setup where I am harvesting regularly, I smoke a ton and I'd also love to start making my own extracts eventually.

I think a perpetual harvest is a great way to go and is how I do mine. You spread out the harvest and therefore the trimming, drying and curing stages rather than a feast or famine approach.

My only issue is how to plan out how many plants I can veg in the 4x2, I am thinking 4 plants would be ideal for the 4x4 but I'm just not sure I can comfortably veg that many in a 4x2?

Your plan should be driven by your flowering space as you can veg more plants than you can flower in any given space. But you could veg four 5G allow buckets in a 4x2 tent. But dont.

I was thinking that because I'm doing SIP it's going to be tough fitting 4 buckets inside the 4x2 and this plan might work better by using coco because I can use 3gal for veg and up-pot to 5gal or bigger for when they go into the 4x4?

Four 5G SIPs will be way too much for a 4x4. @Buds Buddy can give you the skinny there. A single 5 gallon plant vegged for 4 weeks could easily fill that space by itself.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Hi all

So I'm getting ahead of myself and planning my next grow, I already have a 4x4 ready I'm just sorting stuff out so I can get it setup in the house.

My plan is to move my current grow (3 autos, soon to be SIP!) into the 4x4 and start using my existing tent and light as a veg tent. Ideally I'd like to work towards some sort of perpetual setup where I am harvesting regularly, I smoke a ton and I'd also love to start making my own extracts eventually.

My plan is to use the 4x2 with the TSL2000 as a veg tent and then move those plants to the bigger 4x4 for flowering which is going to have probably a KS5000 in it. My only issue is how to plan out how many plants I can veg in the 4x2, I am thinking 4 plants would be ideal for the 4x4 but I'm just not sure I can comfortably veg that many in a 4x2?

I was thinking that because I'm doing SIP it's going to be tough fitting 4 buckets inside the 4x2 and this plan might work better by using coco because I can use 3gal for veg and up-pot to 5gal or bigger for when they go into the 4x4?

Just wondering if anyone has any advice or experience with the matter and can advise The other idea I had if this is a less than ideal veg/flower setup is just use the smaller tent to constantly have some autos going but I know photos are generally better and easier and if I could get a perpetual going that would obviously be optimal, I can't really afford to wait so long between harvests especially as I'm learning and I know they will be less-than ideal for a while.

I know you shouldn't run before you can walk but I'm more than willing to subject myself to a trial by fire and learn as I go/fail

I'm not so sure you should do Coco in a SIP. I've tried 3 seeds in a row & have not been successful at it. Grant it, I'm not really a Coco grower though. I'm throwing my Coco out today & putting soil back in the SIP & going back to what I'm good at.
You can't really Veg 4 plants in 5 gal. SIP's in a 2x4 tent. Start them in 1 gal. pots in the 2x4 & let them Veg in that for 4 weeks & then up-pot to the SIP's. I vegged about 1 week after the up-pot & then flipped to 12/12. That's exactly the way I did the plant that I won POTM with. I know Azi thinks the plants need to be up-potted sooner to develop the feeder roots, but at the same time I think that really doesn't matter much because the plants I started in 1 gal. pots exploded once they hit the SIP's. I'm not seeing any big difference in growth no matter how you do it. So if you're limited on space I would recommend starting in 1 gal. & up-potting.
I would not use a 3 gal. pot if you are using 5 gal. buckets. Way to hard to up-pot into the bucket. I used a 2 gal. once & played hell up-potting because things are in the way, like the fill tube. A 1 gal. works perfect.
4 plants in a 4x4 will still be a tight fit as these things get about 3' in diameter, but you can do it if you Veg a shorter time so they don't get too big. But you could easily fill the 4x4 with 1 plant if you Veg for 6-8 weeks before the flip & probably pull way over a pound. Do you want to use 4 seeds or just 1 ? Choice is yours. I went from growing 8-12 plants at a time to just 4 in SIPs & still pulling the same amount if not more as I did with 8-12 plants. I figure 4-5 lbs. every 3.5-4 months is plenty. I get that amount with just 4 SIP's.

 

[Weffalo]

@Weffalo , with a plan you have presented, I would be surprised if your "trial by fire" isn't successful.

Be sure to update your progress, I for one will be looking forward to seeing it.

Thanks for your post and take care my friend.

Thanks Garybo I appreciate that mate, I'll for sure share my setup and grows here when we get that far )

Hey Weff,

I grow with a perpetual harvest so I'm happy to share my thoughts with you first, and then will answer your questions.

Most strains take anywhere from 7-12 weeks for flower which doesn't include the transition period immediately after flip. So, if you plan to grow plants with various flower times, you'll have to find the best common denominator. I grow strains that are typically 9-10 week flowering strains. So I started with one plant harvested each month (3 plants staggered 4 weeks apart.) That gave me a 12 week cycle for each plant. So a week to 10 days of transition plus 10 weeks of flowering plus a bit of extra time in case a plant ran long.

So, I started a plant every month, gave it a month to veg and then flipped it and started a new plant. But now that I'm growing with SIPs and the plants are so much bigger I have moved instead to 2 plants in flower, 6 weeks apart from each other (also 12 week total flowering time).

This works out great with SIPs since there is typically a 2 week transition period for the roots to adjust and then 4 solid weeks of veg.

So that's how I do it anyway.


I think a perpetual harvest is a great way to go and is how I do mine. You spread out the harvest and therefore the trimming, drying and curing stages rather than a feast or famine approach.


Your plan should be driven by your flowering space as you can veg more plants than you can flower in any given space. But you could veg four 5G allow buckets in a 4x2 tent. But dont.


Four 5G SIPs will be way too much for a 4x4. @Buds Buddy can give you the skinny there. A single 5 gallon plant vegged for 4 weeks could easily fill that space by itself.

Thanks again Azi, fantastic info and insight, really appreciated !

So I need to scale it down is the key takeaway. SIP is gonna work perfect but I will aim for one or two buckets, the reason I was aiming for four is because I want to be maximising my yield in the limited space I have but clearly that can be done with way less seeds, medium and resources used in general.

I like this idea of staggering the harvests by a plant at a time, I had never considered that because I was kind of under the impression it would be hard to create a proper canopy if the plants are slightly different sizes?

For instance although it would mean a bigger harvest less often, would vegging two SIPs then moving them to the flower tent to be finished at the same time not be a lot easier to create a uniform canopy? Obviously I am clueless mate so I'm just curious on how you deal with ensuring the DLI/light is perfect when the plants could be two different heights or am I worrying about that too much lol?

It's kinda crazy one SIP could fill that entire space, I did know you can grow one plant as big as you'd like but I was under the impression it would take more than the 4 weeks of veg to fill a 4x4. I'll have to think whether one or two but I do like the idea of growing more than one strain (Taking average height and flowering speed into account on both strains).

 

[Weffalo]

I'm not so sure you should do Coco in a SIP. I've tried 3 seeds in a row & have not been successful at it. Grant it, I'm not really a Coco grower though. I'm throwing my Coco out today & putting soil back in the SIP & going back to what I'm good at.
You can't really Veg 4 plants in 5 gal. SIP's in a 2x4 tent. Start them in 1 gal. pots in the 2x4 & let them Veg in that for 4 weeks & then up-pot to the SIP's. I vegged about 1 week after the up-pot & then flipped to 12/12. That's exactly the way I did the plant that I won POTM with. I know Azi thinks the plants need to be up-potted sooner to develop the feeder roots, but at the same time I think that really doesn't matter much because the plants I started in 1 gal. pots exploded once they hit the SIP's. I'm not seeing any big difference in growth no matter how you do it. So if you're limited on space I would recommend starting in 1 gal. & up-potting.
I would not use a 3 gal. pot if you are using 5 gal. buckets. Way to hard to up-pot into the bucket. I used a 2 gal. once & played hell up-potting because things are in the way, like the fill tube. A 1 gal. works perfect.
4 plants in a 4x4 will still be a tight fit as these things get about 3' in diameter, but you can do it if you Veg a shorter time so they don't get too big. But you could easily fill the 4x4 with 1 plant if you Veg for 6-8 weeks before the flip & probably pull way over a pound. Do you want to use 4 seeds or just 1 ? Choice is yours. I went from growing 8-12 plants at a time to just 4 in SIPs & still pulling the same amount if not more as I did with 8-12 plants. I figure 4-5 lbs. every 3.5-4 months is plenty. I get that amount with just 4 SIP's.

Hey Buds,

Thanks for the reply mate. Sorry misunderstanding about the coco thing, I was basically wondering if I had to switch to coco instead of SIP to fit the amount of plants I wanted into the 4x2 but it seems that's not really a concern.

Again great info and insight thank you very much, the only real reason I chose 4 is to fill out the space of the 4x4, that's clearly not something I need 4 plants for so I am gonna scale it down to 1 or 2.

I guess with the space and schedule I am doing it makes sense to veg for longer and just do one plant? Flowering takes 10-12 weeks right?

So 2 weeks as seedling, 8 weeks of veg would mean I can always have one plant vegging, one plant flowering and one plant being cured I think?

If I opted for two plants then I would need to delay starting them for a few weeks after each flip or I'd end up with them too big? I would prefer two strains so I'm not convinced either way yet but I'm just making sure I have the general timeline/idea right lol.

Finally if I was doing 2 plants then I may as well start the seedlings in the SIP as I'll have plenty of space inside the veg tent? The up-potting only seems neccessary if I do 4 plants and it seems like there's no need for that.

Sorry lots of question marks there as I'm 100% not sure but I do think I'm getting a good idea of a plan here

Thanks again for the replies!

 

[Azimuth]

I like this idea of staggering the harvests by a plant at a time, I had never considered that because I was kind of under the impression it would be hard to create a proper canopy if the plants are slightly different sizes?

That's one of the things i liked about the one plant a month schedule as I was able to cycle thru my 5 strain stable quickly. Not all strains go 10-12 weeks so you'll have to check the breeder estimates.

Buds is a better resource for tent growing and the nuances to consider about canopy management. I grow in a cabinet and my flower box is 1m high x 1m wide x about half that deep so I'm pretty space restricted. I train with the quadlining approach and 2 weeks of root transition plus 4 weeks of veg is about perfect for my space. The plants at 4 weeks are starting to explode with growth and if I waited any longer they'd be too big for my space.

So 2 weeks as seedling, 8 weeks of veg would mean I can always have one plant vegging, one plant flowering and one plant being cured I think?

Holy crap! 8 weeks of veg in a sip would make for a huge plant I'd imagine which I can't even considering my flower setup. But I sure would like to see pictures.

The question is what produces a larger yearly harvest, slightly smaller plants but more rounds per year, or fewer rounds but bigger plants? The SOG growers will tell you it's the former and not even close. They don't spend any time vegging and just shoot for a single large cola on lots of small plants. Since the turnover is so fast they can get more rounds per year and a bigger harvest.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Hey Buds,

Thanks for the reply mate. Sorry misunderstanding about the coco thing, I was basically wondering if I had to switch to coco instead of SIP to fit the amount of plants I wanted into the 4x2 but it seems that's not really a concern.

Again great info and insight thank you very much, the only real reason I chose 4 is to fill out the space of the 4x4, that's clearly not something I need 4 plants for so I am gonna scale it down to 1 or 2.

I guess with the space and schedule I am doing it makes sense to veg for longer and just do one plant? Flowering takes 10-12 weeks right?

So 2 weeks as seedling, 8 weeks of veg would mean I can always have one plant vegging, one plant flowering and one plant being cured I think?

If I opted for two plants then I would need to delay starting them for a few weeks after each flip or I'd end up with them too big? I would prefer two strains so I'm not convinced either way yet but I'm just making sure I have the general timeline/idea right lol.

Finally if I was doing 2 plants then I may as well start the seedlings in the SIP as I'll have plenty of space inside the veg tent? The up-potting only seems neccessary if I do 4 plants and it seems like there's no need for that.

Sorry lots of question marks there as I'm 100% not sure but I do think I'm getting a good idea of a plan here

Thanks again for the replies!

Most strains seem to finish flowering between 8 & 10 weeks. So you Veg the 1st one 6 weeks. Put it in Flower & wait for the 2 week stretch. Right about then you start your next plant & just repeat the cycle over & over. That timing has been close to perfect for me.

 

[Weffalo]

That's one of the things i liked about the one plant a month schedule as I was able to cycle thru my 5 strain stable quickly. Not all strains go 10-12 weeks so you'll have to check the breeder estimates.

Buds is a better resource for tent growing and the nuances to consider about canopy management. I grow in a cabinet and my flower box is 1m high x 1m wide x about half that deep so I'm pretty space restricted. I train with the quadlining approach and 2 weeks of root transition plus 4 weeks of veg is about perfect for my space. The plants at 4 weeks are starting to explode with growth and if I waited any longer they'd be too big for my space.


Holy crap! 8 weeks of veg in a sip would make for a huge plant I'd imagine which I can't even considering my flower setup. But I sure would like to see pictures.

The question is what produces a larger yearly harvest, slightly smaller plants but more rounds per year, or fewer rounds but bigger plants? The SOG growers will tell you it's the former and not even close. They don't spend any time vegging and just shoot for a single large cola on lots of small plants. Since the turnover is so fast they can get more rounds per year and a bigger harvest.

Gotya, thanks!

Yeah I guess I haven't really considered the training options, I've only really seen people using Scrog in youtube videos etc, quadlining seems interesting too. I guess I need to read up on that, can see you've got some handy links in your sig

More strains is definitely more appealing, varietyis the spice of life and all.

Most strains seem to finish flowering between 8 & 10 weeks. So you Veg the 1st one 6 weeks. Put it in Flower & wait for the 2 week stretch. Right about then you start your next plant & just repeat the cycle over & over. That timing has been close to perfect for me.

Okay cool, you make it sound super simple but in my mind is all super confusing still lol. I'm sure after I get further along on my first grow I'll have a better grip on it all mentally.

I'll have a think further on wtf I'm gonna do, whether to do 1 or 2 plants, either way I'll be waiting until my autos are around 6 weeks away from harvest so the timing will work out for the first flip as they finish and the tent frees up.

Thanks a lot for your advice

 

[Buds Buddy]

Gotya, thanks!

Yeah I guess I haven't really considered the training options, I've only really seen people using Scrog in youtube videos etc, quadlining seems interesting too. I guess I need to read up on that, can see you've got some handy links in your sig

More strains is definitely more appealing, varietyis the spice of life and all.


Okay cool, you make it sound super simple but in my mind is all super confusing still lol. I'm sure after I get further along on my first grow I'll have a better grip on it all mentally.

I'll have a think further on wtf I'm gonna do, whether to do 1 or 2 plants, either way I'll be waiting until my autos are around 6 weeks away from harvest so the timing will work out for the first flip as they finish and the tent frees up.

Thanks a lot for your advice

It is quite simple if you don't over think things. Most people try to do too much (like they're taking care of a baby). It's a weed ! It will grow. Think about it this way. It rains outside for just one day & boom.... you have a yard full of weeds. You don't have to do a bunch of extravagant things to grow weed. You can keep it really basic & simple & be quite successful.

 

[Azimuth]

It is quite simple if you don't over think things. Most people try to do too much (like they're taking care of a baby). It's a weed ! It will grow. Think about it this way. It rains outside for just one day & boom.... you have a yard full of weeds. You don't have to do a bunch of extravagant things to grow weed. You can keep it really basic & simple & be quite successful.

Yeah, OK. But what's the fun in that??!?

 

[Azimuth]

Yeah I guess I haven't really considered the training options, I've only really seen people using Scrog in youtube videos etc, quadlining seems interesting too. I guess I need to read up on that, can see you've got some handy links in your sig

What I like about quadlining is its faster than many training methods, doesn't set the plant back much at all since there's only one topping, and I can move the plants around easily, and it gives the plant great structure which helps with air flow later in flower.

But, lots of methods out there. You just have to find the one that works best for you and how you like to grow.

 

[HighlanderRecluse]

Interesting info guys,

I have been considering how to plan my next grow (new grower though)

considering some form of perpetual grow too but not sure what would be best yet

There is the appeal of doing a large grow once per year and having enough to last still next season but its maybe more risky if caught (for me any way still illegal sadly where I am)

, I smoke a ton

What sort of harvests are you looking to gain?

 

[Buds Buddy]

Yeah, OK. But what's the fun in that??!?

I'm enjoying keeping it simple. The less I have to do, the better. That's the biggest reason I use a 1 part nute. Mixing things takes too much time, so I use as few things as possible. LST, plant clean up, etc. are all done on my days off work only. I guess it depends on how busy your schedule is & if you have the time to do all the extra stuff that will amount to the same yield I get keeping things simple & having more time to do other things. If I were retired with nothing better to do, I might look at things differently.

 

[Weffalo]

It is quite simple if you don't over think things. Most people try to do too much (like they're taking care of a baby). It's a weed ! It will grow. Think about it this way. It rains outside for just one day & boom.... you have a yard full of weeds. You don't have to do a bunch of extravagant things to grow weed. You can keep it really basic & simple & be quite successful.

Well it's just the timings that are hard to visualise I guess, I've switched buying smoke for growing it so I'm very keen to get it right and have smoke available before I go dankrupt lol. Your definitely right though I'm almost definitely overthinking things, once I've got started on my first photos I'm sure it will make a lot more sense.

Yeah, OK. But what's the fun in that??!?

Haha, when I look at an untrained plant vs mainlined/manifolded plants one definitely looks more exciting, I've seen plenty of good results with just topping and LST though, that's probably why I will do my own small trial to see which I prefer.

What I like about quadlining is its faster than many training methods, doesn't set the plant back much at all since there's only one topping, and I can move the plants around easily, and it gives the plant great structure which helps with air flow later in flower.

But, lots of methods out there. You just have to find the one that works best for you and how you like to grow.

I really like the look of quadlining to be honest, helps there is such a well done graphical guide. From what I've read it leads to super good yields and is comparable to other training whilst being maybe easier for someone like me to grasp, it's certainly a contender!

Interesting info guys,

I have been considering how to plan my next grow (new grower though)

considering some form of perpetual grow too but not sure what would be best yet

There is the appeal of doing a large grow once per year and having enough to last still next season but its maybe more risky if caught (for me any way still illegal sadly where I am)



What sort of harvests are you looking to gain?

Unfortunately I have the same issues as you regarding the law mate, but with it being personal use and just with my moral stance on cannabis generally I find it hard to care much, what will be will be and for me the benefits equal or outweigh the risk.

The light I am getting for flowering can get 24-31oz per 4x4 space in coco, I'd be happy with anything over a pound after I gain some experience, until I gain some experience I will be happy with an oz per plant. Now whether I could actually make use of a pound per harvest on a perpetual cycle is up for debate but concentrates and edibles would allow me to store plenty for rainydays and also means I don't have to grow all year.

I'm enjoying keeping it simple. The less I have to do, the better. That's the biggest reason I use a 1 part nute. Mixing things takes too much time, so I use as few things as possible. LST, plant clean up, etc. are all done on my days off work only. I guess it depends on how busy your schedule is & if you have the time to do all the extra stuff that will amount to the same yield I get keeping things simple & having more time to do other things. If I were retired with nothing better to do, I might look at things differently.

That's more than fair and your results speak for themselves. I work from home on a pretty tame schedule currently so free time isn't something I'm struggling for, a luxury I know! I've also not had the joys of defoliation or any real work yet so I'm sure by the time I've finished these first autos I will be agreeing with you on this.

Thanks everyone for your replies

 

[Azimuth]

I've seen plenty of good results with just topping and LST though,

Yep, that's really all quadlining is. One single topping, LST the four branches to the pot edge, let them go vertical and flip. Like Buds said, simple.

And I kid, but I like simple and efficient as well as I don't have all day to tend the plants. Some people literally spend hours watering their plants. I don't have the patience for that, never mind the time. Another reason I like SIPs. Watering a plant only takes a few seconds to pour the water down the fill tube.

 

[sportyridr]

what's a SIP?

 

[Twalte]

what's a SIP?

Azimuth has a link in his signature for SIP.

SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

Welcome to SIP Club! There are an increasing number of us growing in SIPs (Sub Irrigated Planters) so I thought I'd start a community thread where we can all post pictures, links to our various SIP threads and have general discussions on theory and application of these incredible pots. I'll...

www.420magazine.com

 

[sportyridr]

Azimuth has a link in his signature for SIP.

SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

Welcome to SIP Club! There are an increasing number of us growing in SIPs (Sub Irrigated Planters) so I thought I'd start a community thread where we can all post pictures, links to our various SIP threads and have general discussions on theory and application of these incredible pots. I'll...

www.420magazine.com

Thanks