What is causing this?

[greenjeans]

...and what happens if ur copper and potash are messed with?

If I'm reading the chart right - if copper is deficient it messes up damn near everything.... and ... a deficiency in potash is the same - red arrows going everywhere!!!
Am I reading it right??? Really, I don't mind learning, as long as it doesn't hurt!!!

 

[Mudballs]

Or excess too , which is more likely in this plants case...there arent necrosis spots, just discoloration

 

[SmokingWings]

If I'm reading the chart right - if copper is deficient it messes up damn near everything.... and ... a deficiency in potash is the same - red arrows going everywhere!!!
Am I reading it right??? Really, I don't mind learning, as long as it doesn't hurt!!!

It can be somewhat confusing trying to understand what we are seeing when looking at Mulder's Charts. Mostly I figure it is figuring out the meaning of the direction of the arrows. Found these two bits of info while cruising the web yesterday with Mr Googles help.

For those new to this web site click away on "Click to Expand" to open up the short article quotes....

Mulders Chart: Nutrient Interactions
ByNutriAg
November 24, 2020

In the soil, nutrients interact with one another leading to changes in availability to plants. (Chart with green and black arrows)

Antagonism: High levels of a particular nutrient in the soil can interfere with the availability and uptake of other nutrients. For example, high nitrogen levels can reduce the availability of boron, potash and copper; high phosphate levels can influence the uptake of iron, calcium, potash, copper and zinc; high potash levels can reduce the availability of magnesium. Thus, the application of high levels of nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium can induce plant deficiencies of other essential elements.

Stimulation: This occurs when the high level of a particular nutrient increases the demand by the plant for another nutrient. For example, increased nitrogen levels create a demand for more magnesium.

More reasons for soil testing
Ron Goldy, Michigan State University Extension - March 11, 2016

<refer to chart with red and green arrows>
A lesser known but equally important interaction is the one shown by the Mulder’s Chart (Figure 2). The Mulder’s chart represents the interaction between 11 of the essential plant elements. Some interactions are positive (synergistic) and others are negative (antagonistic). A synergistic relationship is one where the elements involved help each other by aiding uptake or utilization. In contrast, an antagonistic relationship means the elements hinder each other in uptake or utilization. For example, adequate potassium aids in use of iron and manganese, but if it is too high it will hinder (antagonizes) utilization of magnesium, boron, nitrogen, phosphorous and calcium. An antagonized element may be present in adequate levels, but there is so much potassium present the plant doesn’t have access to it. Elements that act as antagonists can do so in a couple ways. If calcium is in excess it can simply out-compete other elements such as potassium and magnesium for uptake sites on the roots, or it can change soil chemistry by elevating pH to the point iron and boron become unavailable

 

[cbdhemp808]

We call overfed plants "cooked"...too much fertigation.

If so, how come the plant on the right is over-fed, but not the one on the left? @static123 have you been feeding them the same? They are both Kosher Kush, but perhaps the pheno on the right wants more calcium.

This looks like calcium deficiency...

 

[cbdhemp808]

I am just building off of what you said... I noticed that the plant on the left doesn't look over-fed, but your theory is that the one on the right is over-fed. So, I'm just making an observation and asking the OP if he fed them at the same rate.

 

[static123]

I am just building off of what you said... I noticed that the plant on the left doesn't look over-fed, but your theory is that the one on the right is over-fed. So, I'm just making an observation and asking the OP if he fed them at the same rate.

Hi, I have fed them both at the same time with the same mix off feed.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Hi, I have fed them both at the same time with the same mix off feed.

In that case, my guess is that the pheno on the right wants more calcium. I had this happen in my grow recently... many plants of different strains all planted in the same soil, same conditions. One of my indicas showed calcium deficiency, while all the other plants didn't.

 

[Mudballs]

What are the ingredients in BioBizz?

Biobizz Bio-Grow is made from 100% Dutch sugar beet extract (vinasse). It mainly consists of molasses, which is a source of sugar, other carbohydrates, natural amino acids, betaine, Potassium (K), Nitrogen (N), Calcium (Ca), Magnesium (Mg), and over 70 other trace minerals.

Since Ca is not a mobile element, deficiencies occur in the newer tissues.
When Ca deficiency is severe, newly emerging tissue is affected.
The margins of the leaves tend to stick together, giving a ragged edge to new leaves. Older leaves will show a browning of the margins.
The Ca requirement for plants varies widely with grasses having the lowest requirement, legumes intermediate, and fruit crops and cotton the highest. Calcium levels from 0.20 to 0.25 percent are quite adequate for pasture grasses and corn. Soybean has a critical Ca concentration in the mature leaves of 0.50 percent, while the level for peanuts is 1.25 percent.
i use soybean alot as a correlating plant.
your plant is overfed and has enough calcium available or it would look jacked

 

[static123]

Oh ok I see, I’ll be honest , as much as I really appreciate all the help in this thread I am a little overwhelmed with information and perhaps more confused. The plants are actually looking better today, their last feed was plain PHed water. I’ll post a pic in a moment. Thanks

 

[static123]

Their last feed was plain PHed water two days ago they are looking better. Would it be a good idea for me to trim some of the leaves from the one on the left she’s a little bushy and I am concerned light and sufficient air movement is not reaching inside.

 

[Mudballs]

Yeah, it's gonna be like that until you grow plants enough that you start noticing stuff, reading, and connecting the dots. Just like school, or a trade journeyman, you gotta get hands on with the material and topic to become proficient

 

[Mudballs]

Their last feed was plain PHed water two days ago they are looking better. Would it be a good idea for me to trim some of the leaves from the one on the left she’s a little bushy and I am concerned light and sufficient air movement is not reaching inside.

No dont trim, in my opinion. They are stressed enough.

 

[SmokingWings]

You noticed that too, eh.. And, the recommendation rarely comes with why Calcium is the answer to the problem; just "Calcium and we need more photos".

It used to be that the recommendation for Calcium was for plants being grown under LED lights. Then after a few years people jumped up and said Calcium for plants on any light from CFL to LED to HID. And now we are getting closer to Calcium solving just about every problem the plant has to bad lighting to thrips and mites.

Coming soon will be someone asking for help with discolored leaves and the answer will be "Calcium and no photos needed".

Though, I have to admit that reworking my fertilizing program and adding Calcium has helped a lot.

 

[cbdhemp808]

OP said "soil medium and bio bizz nutrients". Let's not make assumptions about this, re: overfeeding. OP has been fertigating not every day, but every watering. The plant on the left doesn't look over-fed... both plants were fed on the same schedule.

@static123 What soil medium are you using? What is it made out of, and what is the NPK? What BioBizz nutrient(s) are you using?

BioBizz Grow is made from vinasse, which is a waste product from the sugar and/or alcohol industry (diluted I'm sure with water). BioBizz doesn't list the amounts of the micro-nutrients in BioBizz Grow, so let's not make any assumptions about that either. In fact, BioBizz doesn't even list the NPK numbers on their official website.

RE: Calcium deficiency. Several members on the thread suggested this might be the problem. And the leaf shows it...

This is not discoloration... it's necrosis. But I will also say, if these leaf symptoms are isolated, and not happening on the new growth, then it's a minor deficiency.

From the BioBizz "Nutrient Schedule" (all nutrient products):

"We recommend to use our Calmag supplement every watering when growing with RO or very soft water or once a week in case of noticing Ca/Mg deficiency signs".

https://www.biobizz.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Nutrient-Schedule-EN_2021-1.pdf

 

[static123]

Hi it’s been a while so I thought I’d give a quick update. In the end I gave them a flush and then started adding call mag to each feed 1 ml per L and they have improved considerably to my eyes anyway. They are bang on 4 weeks into flowing.