Bag Seed - Scrog or Super Crop Grow Box Journal 2013

bluebell

bluebell

New Member
Hey guys, welcome to my first grow journal and my second grow.

This is a hydro/aro/DWC grow modeled after stratlogic's 5 gallon buckets found here:

I'll be growing from two bag seeds that came from the same bag, no idea what strain or type.

My first grow is still flowering in an areo-garden I got as a gift. Its been about 5 months total from seed, its been nute burned, nute deprived, burnt from touching the lights, over heated with my first cardboard "grow box", gone through several different light cycles before I got a timer and gone through 1 move... but its flowering very nicely right now, considering, and its almost there.

This is a video of my grow box test as of this very evening:
(needed to be quiet, room mate's sleeping)

[video=youtube_share;P9TjyugeXps]
[/video]

I said about 15,000 but its actually nearly 13,000, a bit high and tired haha, I also got a bit distracted for a moment there in the middle, but it gets the job done.

the grow box is also based on stratlogic's grow box construction thread but it's a little different, being 1'8" X 2' X 5', due to my closet dimensions.


I'm planning on either adding one or two 125 watt CFL's, or going for a cool tube w/ 250 watt HPS light...

I'm leaning towards the 250 watt HPS light, which I can get for around $213 for the light, ballast, fan, and ducting. This would produce 33,000 lumens at a total drain of 320 watts accounting for the fan and ballast.

the 2 125 watt cfl bulb set up would also total about 33,000 lumens, cost $200 for the 4 (2 veg, 2 flower) lights, fan, and custom light box, and the entire lighting drain, including the 8 CFLs I show in the video, would be about 490 watts.

what I will probably do is veg the plants on these CFLs and one additional 125 watt vegging bulb (40 bucks), because they produce more of the right spectrum of light, then when I move to the flowering stage, it will be onto the 250 watt HPS cool tube for a final lumen ratio of 9,550 lumens per sq. Ft.

if i can keep the 8 CFLs in there as well, and it doesn't get too hot, I would be at 45,800, or 13,000 per sq. Ft, which seems a bit overkill to me, but what do you guys think?

some other advice I'm wondering about is, growing from seed, would I want to grow a SCOG, or super crop?
 
OK, well its day 3 and 2 of the 4 seeds I germinated have sprouted in the shot glass full of water. I used a pair of chopsticks a night or so ago to put the first one in, and put the next one in just today, so baby # 1 has a bit of a head start. here are a few pictures of the one that's been in there a couple days:


DSC0008610.JPG
DSC0008710.JPG
DSC0008811.JPG


(Click thumbnails for high quality)
​

The seedlings are hanging out in my growbox, with the buckets temporarily modified into seedling starters, with water being pumped right next to the expandable peat pods, keeping them moist with oxygenated water all day long. This will be my starting box, my veg box, and my flower box for this grow. I will see about getting a cloning area and a mother plant later.
 
so the little one started growing drasticly towards the light (duh right?) so i threw another light back in there, and it bent right back. kind of makes me wonder if you couldnt do some no stress training just by were you put the lights haha.




In the end I decided to just hang the lights up until I get the overhead higher wattage cfl for vegging, hopefully later today, just waiting for the guy to get an order in.

 
So today is a bit of a special day. Today, March 20th at 5:15 am, I smoked the first bowl of my first grow of home grown.

It is freaking killer. Its like an energy drink and a chill pill at the same time. I was feeling a bit down before I smoked, just a random bout of depressive feelings centered on nothing, but tainting every thought kinda thing. decided to try the bud I nicked off "Tammy" the other day, the light had dried it out on the plant while its still growing and working towards harvest so I snipped it off, dried it a day or so, and then cured it a day or so... haha it was still pretty harsh, and tasted different than I'm used to, more plant like and earthy than the standard sweet herb if you know what I mean. But Damn. It milked up the bong super easy, and burned bright and hot.

I was looking around for the feeling, and then I felt it. I suddenly noticed it kind of thing, about 10 seconds after smoking. The most obvious effects were the fact that i was no longer depressed, and the huge energy burst. I then said jokingly to my smoking buddy, in a sort of prudish genteel voice, "Seems to produce an immediately euphoric high, and intense energy and activity".

When we first got the bag that Tammy's seed came in, my smoking buddy nick-named the weed "Tame Tammy" (though that buddy bought it as "dutch treat") because it knocked you the heck out. TOTAL couch lock.

With the research I've been doing sense planting the seed from the "Tame Tammy" seed bag, I have found that "dutch treat" is supposed to give you an active and euphoric high. At first I thought that meant that the stuff we smoked couldn't have actually been "dutch treat", but must have been miss labeled. I eventually learned about the effects of letting your weed flower too long, namely degraded THC and higher production of CBN, Which gives you that slow, sleepy feeling.

after having smoked this immature, weirdly dried, and only cured for a day nug.... I suspect now that the bag was just over ripened Dutch Treat.
 
I just took out the other bucket, the seed hadn't done much sense splitting originally, I think its a dud. For now I'll keep the peat moist, but I don't have high hopes. That leaves me with just one little undefined gendered baby plant in my care. lets she how it does!



you can see in picture #2 how I have water being pumped into the growing medium, just touching the side of the peat planting medium, which keeps it moist all the time. Once its roots get through the expanded clay and into the bucket below, I'll move the tube so that water is pumped directly into that bucket.
 
So, I've decided on a light. I was looking at these setups:

  • 1 250 watt HPS and cool tube = 33,000 lumans, 312 watts (including fan and ballast) and costing about $213
    (105.7 lumans per watt)
  • 1 Blackstar 240w LED= effective growth equivalent to about 16,500 lumans, 133 actual watts used, and costing $270
    (124 lumans per watt)
  • 2 Blackstar 240w LED= 35,000 luman equivalent, 266 actual watts used, and costing $540
    (124 lumans per watt)
  • 1 Blackstar 240w LED + 5 23 watt CFL= 23,000 equivalent lumans, 248 watts, and costing $280 total.
    (92 lumans per watt)


I decided on the LED + CFL setup because I don't want to deal with exhausting through a wall or ceiling, or the sound of an inline fan, the box is in my bedroom closet after all. I also didn't want to drop $540. I'm alright paying about $80 more for a long term solution to noise and not having holes in my walls etc. I am also still at roughly 6,850 lumens/square foot for my box, which seems like plenty, I feel the 250w HPS would be overkill.

It's a flowering light, but it should work fine for vegging.



I also added about a half tsp of "FloraNova: Grow"... much less than the recommended amounts for a seedling, but I'm a little nervous of nutrients depositing in the peat plug and sticking there disproportionately, so I'm going a little on the light side until the plants roots get bigger, and move out of the peat plug.
 
grow box got a little warm today with the closet closed. Thermometer showed a high of 91, the room was fairly warm too from the heating action of the grow box, and my window being covered by an insulating plastic film. It's spring now, so I took the film off and popped open the window for a few minutes, and took two lights out of the grow box. it quickly cooled down to 84, and is possibly still declining. The problem is that I'm using a big computer fan that is bad at moving air. It's a .5 amp 12 volt fan, that moves very little air. It was just something i had lying around. I've been planning on grabbing another, quieter, computer fan that can move more air, I'll probably do that tonight.
 
well, its been 11 days since my last update, the little plant wasnt doing much for a bit, so, on the April 3rd I tentatively added nutrients at half strength again, hoping I wouldn't get a burn. The plant responded very well, its 3 days later and now the end of week 3.



you can see the part of one of the bottom leaves that seems to be bitten off or something. That is the leaf set that had the browning/yellowing tip. It ended up drying to a crisp, so I broke that crispy bit off.

I decided to start LSTing the plant today, as it has 4 leaf sets with a 5th emerging.

 
hey KingJohn! thanks for subscribing. I've got a nice little update for you.

Its been one week sense my last update and I have moved up to the full dose of nutes for a seedling, and man! This little plant is awesome! The change in plant size in just one week is incredible!




its getting kind of confusing in there, the foliage is so thick I can barely see the stem. What was the main stock seems to be doing very little now, in comparison to the other parts of it. Stay tuned!
 
That plant is stunted dude...

Also, never remove the shell, seedlings are very very fragile that early. when the time is ready it will grow up and remove its own shell

Have you been moderating the PH of your water?
 
I know you're not going to want to hear it but, I would have not gone with DWC as a beginner. If I was you when you get a chance I would get some soil-less mix, like Pro-Mix. Soil is the easiest way to grow pot. I won't go into details but you definitely need to monitor the PH of your DWC.




I believe it is stunted based on the growth rate through the pictures you have posted, the plant is over a month in veg and it's not even a foot tall. There is also some sort of deficiency..
Take a look at this chart

malady_chart21.jpg


I think with some tweaking to your grow you could be yielding large amounts and potent stuff. I strongly urge you move away from DWC for now and switch to soilless mixes and get Advanced Nutrients Perfect PH when you are able to, I know money is a factor.

With Perfect PH, you eliminate the need of checking your nutrient solution every time.

A good set up for your grow, for beginners is something among the lines of ths:

PRO-MIX Mycorrhizae - General purpose peat-based growing medium
You can find pro-mix at your local nursery most likely or you can order it online but the shipping fee is huge.


pH Perfect Sensi Grow: Avoid pH Problems with Sensi Grow Nutrients
AN's Perfect PH 2-part Veg nute solution, works great.

FAQ On Sensi Bloom, Hydroponic Nutrients
An's Perfect PH 2-part Bloom solution, you switch to this a week after switching lights to 12/12.


Then you can get some other stuff like CalMag, if you have a terrible water supply and lacking Calcium/Magnesium, you can check this by measuring your PPM. If it's way too low you need calmag.

Humboldt County's Own Killer Tea - Discount Hydroponics
Killer tea you use occasionally during flower and during flush when you're nearing harvest, this stuff is like crack cocaine to buds. it'll increase quality, smell and yield results

In my honest opinion
You have a good set up man, from looks of it you are intelligent. i just think you're going in the wrong direction in using DWC. Soil/soilless mixes are so much easier to use and much harder to stunt a plant as long as you read directions of the nutrients and keep your temperatures in place.

If I were you, I would just scrap that plant you have and start a new. Or if you have enough room, keep that one because I know since its your first grow, you could still learn from that plant.

and still start a couple because you don't want to waste all that time vegging and turn out the only plant you started turns out to be a male, that would suck wouldn't it ?
 
For sure that would suck, I did start 3 seeds, but only one sprouted, they were from a buddy of mine, about 5 years old stored in a box in his room.

my PH was sitting around 6.8, but I added some compost tea from a local shop, and it was apparently acidic, dropping the PH down to 6.5.

I think I'm just going to let this plant go, at least until I figure out if its a lady or a guy. both because I'm curious as to what will happen, and I would rather get all my mistakes worked out on one plant if possible haha!:scratchinghead: I'll do soil as you suggest for my next grow, and in the next month or so I should have some access to clones... maybe I'll do a side by side comparison? the grow box has room for two.

when I added the tea and checked the PH today, I also switched out the zip ties suggested in the DIY construction video with some rubber coated wire, its just easier to work with for me.

as for the nute issues, Do you think it has something like nitrogen abundance?




here's a picture of the roots:


and I was curious about something:



Do you see how close each node is? looking at other grows at a month old, they are all quite a bit taller as you said, but the nodes are spaced out like 3 or 4 inches, while mine are spaced at about a quarter to a half inch apart, is that an issue? I had thought it was a good thing.
 
You'll be amazed how easy it is to grow in soil, I definitely suggest you use pro-mix or something like it

From personal experience, the nodes being so close together is another sign of it being stunted. (close together like your plant is)

normal plant growth around 3 weeks you will start to see it gain in height a lot even if it is indica. it will have many branches and the branches will be big and long, all of your nodes are practically against the main stalk.
I would defoliate it a little so the bud locations get more light if you think they're not getting hit well enough. Remove only fan leafs and don't remove alot of them. Just open up some areas on bud locations so they're getting hit directly by the light.

I would just switch it to flower now man, I would not waste time vegging it for much longer, in my opinion. one month isn't that bad.
You have to remember in the first three weeks of flower it still vegitates and will grow even more.


It could still yield an oz or so i'd say since it's been vegging so long it's not that messed up other than being stunted (no huge deficiencies), and as long as it doesn't hermie.

I don't think your plant is nitrogen abundant, I think it could have PPM issues, I see some yellowing leafs . Is your water source your bathroom tub?



DWC ph should be around 5.5-5.8 I believe, with soil being the exception having a tolerable PH of 6.0-6.4
 

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