GreenThumb J's White Widow Clone Run RTF/DWC

[powder123]

hah... epic your box looks like fridge but i have to say you are growing some pretty nice clones!

 

[Greenthumb J]

hah... epic your box looks like fridge but i have to say you are growing some pretty nice clones!

Hey! Welcome to Like a fridge eh? haha i have heard almost everything except that! My favourite so far has been "The Sherman tanks of Growboxes"

Fridge is good tho, cause theres lots of tasty things inside that box!!!

NICE I was wondering as I use bud blood the switch to big bud and carboload, the at the end its carboload and bloombastic for me. I just get a huge spike in PPm with bud blood and bloombastic just worried about burning at the end of bloom. I have cut my 3 part normally but i'll go harder this round. Finally perfected my mixing order to make AN ph perfect to actually work with my hard water. You really blasted off about LED the other day LOL at least you broke the mold of everyone praising them without reason. I'm sticking with LEDs myself but only highest quality not Chinese.

I read in your journal that you figured out your PH situation.. i also replied to that!!

Dont get me started on LED's TheCapn an i had some good discussions via PM about why its not actually a sound investment to get LED's. people can argue the opposites till the Cows come home. this is irrefutable.

Okay, say it costs you $35 for one month to run a single 600w HPS light, so $70 for a 2 month period of flowering.

If an LED uses half that power (and puts out the same relative watts), essentially it should cost you around $17.50 to use that LED for one month, and $35 to use it for a period of flowering.

Now, if you crop 1lb dried from the HPS and only 15zips from the LED, with the $35 in savings in electrical from the LED, you have lost $165 from that grow by harvesting one less ounce (if you were a vendor, or medical grower this is your income!!) Does that make sense to why LED's aren't more efficient?

No LEDs can outyield an HPS.. YET. I'm positive one day it will happen, but think about this in terms of cost again.

A quick copy and paste from TheCapn on LED vs HPS cost:

"The savings in electricity isn't even something one should consider when looking at LED lights. We have seen over and over again, low watts = low yields. The cost of replacing HPS bulbs are negligible. LED fixtures cost (on average) about 3 times the cost of a HPS ballast, hood, and bulb. After 3 years, LED loses intensity, so one would need to replace the LED lights at that time. This cancels out the argument that you don't have to pay to replace HPS bulbs. And... seriously, who is going to run a LED light for more than 3 years anyway? One will always want to upgrade to the new technology. Some people say LED produces better quality? Maybe, you've seen my pictures. I can't complain about the quality I'm producing."

he's right, i'm sure you've seen his plants and bud shots. They make me drool

In order to get yields like TheCapn with LED you would need to use 3x as much LED lights as recommended by the LED company. Now that would cost you in the range of $1000-1500 to get that much LED lighting for a couple good panels.

Consider that monthly savings i was just talking about.

If you saved $17.50 a month and only paid that much a month to run your LED light, you only save yourself $210 a year in electrical costs.

Times that by 3 (which is when your LED will lose its intensity and need replacing) you only save $630 over 3 years. Not bad. But when you go to replace those 2 or 3 panels that will cost you another $1000-1500, you've just eliminated those savings completely!!

Now how does that make sense?

I would love for LED's to match HPS.. Like the Capn, i would also love to not have to duct my lights and run extra fans and an AC, we would BOTH LOVE to run some LED in our grow rooms, but not at the expense of less bud for more cost!

 

[hydrofun]

O I'm not saying LED is better its just what I will use in my grows as that's easiest for me to hide. The lower heat waste makes it easier for me to do a rapid shutdown in case of whatever. I only need to cut 1 switch and I am good. My peoples won't allow for a big ass HPS fans extraction its already in the 90+ more than half the year. Nope its led or no growing at all for me. 1 day I would love to get a setup that consistently puts out a few pounds but now I just veg for 2 months and cross my fingers I'll get something not sure what yet but its females for sure.

 

[Greenthumb J]

>>> now I just veg for 2 months and cross my fingers I'll get something not sure what yet but its females for sure.

Glad you got ladies!!


Here's an update on my nutrient recipe.

So just recently i started using the Liquid KoolBloom and KoolBloom Dry from Gen Hydro and here is my initial impression of these products.

Liquid KoolBloom:

This stuff smells funky. Like fermented iced tea. kind of like what Rapid Start smells like but more fermented.

What i am noticing about this particular product, is it is messing with my "PH perfect" recipe i forumulated with the Gen Hydro 3-part Flora series. For the longest time, i haven't had to use a PH buffer to adjust my PH level. Since using Liquid KoolBloom, My PH is always high after mixing up a batch of nutrients, thus forcing me to add PH Down (FloraBlend wasn't working like it usually does!)

This is leading me to believe that i need to drop the ArmorSi during flowering due to the fact that both LKB and ArmorSi are very Alkaline and raise my PH, and my plants have formed strong enough branches at this point. This will prevent me from having to adjust PH after my nutrients have been mixed, as with my recipe, I do not even have to check PH, because i know exactly what it will be.

A good thing i have noticed about my recipe and PH, is that I dont even need to check it through out the week. I changed my reservoir out on the grow box the other day and just out of curiosity, i took a PH reading. 5.8. Exactly what i had it at when i put the water in a week previous. My plants in the box have not experienced ONE deficiency in their entire lifespan! I'm loving this.

What this does to my PPM is raises it by 175-ish if adding 5ml/gal and by about 300-ish when adding the max suggested dosage of 10ml/gal. Like i said above, this product is highly Alkaline, so if you are using ArmorSi or any other Silica additive that will also be Alkaline your PH will spike!

I am adding Liquid KoolBloom @ its maximum dosage of 10ml/gal

KoolBloom Dry:

This stuff is some crazy pink powder with an N-P-K value of 2-45-28. The bag suggests going light on the KoolBloom dry, stating a little goes a long way. I have yet to take a look at the WW, and i wont be able to look at her until Tuesday as i am going away to see Family for Thanksgiving weekend. But what i saw last night showed me that a little might not really go a long way. I used one full Teaspoon per 4gal (.25tsp per gallon is suggested dosage). This hardly did anything to my PPM's in comparison to what Liquid KoolBloom does to PPM.

What i am noticing tho, is the buds are definitely bulking up and the stems simply cant hold them up anymore. I've seen an increase in trichome production since adding KoolBloom Dry to the WW bucket at last water change.

Another thing i notice, is KoolBloom Dry does not affect my PH like Liquid KoolBloom does, which is nice when you dont have to add PH Down to your water.

I am adding KoolBloom Dry @ its maximum dosage of 1tsp/gal


All in all, i am liking these products, with the only downfall being the Liquid KoolBloom messing with my PH, but i'm attributing that to the ArmorSi in the water.

i will test this theory when i return from my trip this weekend!

 

[Greenthumb J]

GreenThumb J has a nice update for before i take off for the weekend.

Got my new veg tent set up.. Just have to go to hardware store and get some chain to hang my T5 fixture and a surge protector to plug all my shit in!

Will be back this afternoon with a full update!

 

[hydrofun]

I'd say that's about the trick isn't it? Losing the GH armorsi should be no big deal that far into growing the plant is what? @ 9-10 weeks old. SIlca probably wont bulk the stalks up much in the last few weeks when stretch stops. I almost feel there is no reason to add myrchryzea the last 3 weeks as well.

 

[Greenthumb J]

There is always a reason to add mycorrhizae to your plant..


It's called Pythium!

 

[Greenthumb J]

Hey folks!


GreenThumb J is back with another update!

Yesterday while dealing with a fever, i had to set up my new veg tent and T5 fixture for my plants in veg.

Let me tell you, it was a difficult task!

First off, I had a 4x8 space to set up a 4x8 tent. It was slightly annoying, but i got it all set up!

So after i got the tent set up, i had to travel around town feeling like shit to get a bunch of stuff for the Veg tent.

I got 2 reservoirs for the flood tables, some PVC fittings for a drip system, a new water pump for the drip system, a couple timers and a new surge protector.

I then got the drip system all dry fit and drilled my holes for the water.

After that was done i mixed up 8gals of nutrient solution for each reservoir and added an airstone to each reservoir powered by my Gen Hydro Dual Diaphragm

So heres some pictures of the set up with my plants in the new veg tent:

When i get home from my moms this weekend, i will post a video of my place, and all the new additions i have set up!

Hope everyone has a great weekend and stays medicated!

 

[TheCapn]

NIce posts, GT. I've actually started running the Florablend up almost until flush. Candidly, it's usually because I FORGET to NOT add it! ha. But if you say there is a benefit to running it all the way, I'll do it. Glad to hear your trays are fitting nicely in your tent. I think the smaller tray is better because you will be better able to give them a reach around, under their skirts.

 

[mrrobert420]

Hey Greenthumb - I grow with LEDs and i completely agree. You can not match HPS yields with LED YET......... I grow with two LED lights and my friend grows with HPS - Hands down he gets much more yield per watt - I definitely feel i would have to add another panel to equal his 600w HPS even though per the LED manufacturer its supposed to be equivalent to a 600w HPS--------lol yea right lol...........

 

[Greenthumb J]

>>> Candidly, it's usually because I FORGET to NOT add it

When i'm in flower, thats when the KoolBloom starts getting added. The Liquid KoolBloom is very alkaline and will raise PH.. I find that once you start flower, the ArmorSi should be dropped as that is also highly alkaline, and no amount of FloraBlend will lower the PH. I added 40mls to 4 gals and then another 20mls and it didn't even move a tenth of point.

But with my particular recipe i posted a few pages back, the PH doesn't really need to be adjusted after the 3 part is added. Its usually around 6.0 already.

>>> I think the smaller tray is better because you will be better able to give them a reach around, under their skirts.

I agree, once i rearrange the trays later this afternoon when i get home from my moms place, i should be able to move around freely in the tent and do work on all sides of the plants.

 

[stealthgrow]

New tent looks great GT.
Cheers.

 

[Greenthumb J]

New tent looks great GT.
Cheers.

Hope you had a good Thanksgiving this last weekend Stealth!!

 

[CCOiler]

Looking really good Greenthumb J, it's always fun to see someone add grow space.

I also like the fact that you are calling out the LED's -vs- HID's. All I've been reading is how great the LED's are, must be the fact that they are being sponsored?

 

[hydrofun]

OMG lies! LEDs rule. Anyhow I like them to bad they cost a lot. One day I will have a single diode led as big as my head!

 

[Greenthumb J]

Looking really good Greenthumb J, it's always fun to see someone add grow space.

I also like the fact that you are calling out the LED's -vs- HID's. All I've been reading is how great the LED's are, must be the fact that they are being sponsored?

LED's are great , but only if you buy 3x the suggested amount of LED's for your space. Thats the only way you will match the yield of HPS

So if you're buying an LED for a 3x3 space, buy at least 2 of those LED's in order to get a yield similar to the equivalent wattage in HID.

Example. 2 old model topLED 300w panels (they're like $106 each) get 2 of those and put them in a 3x3 space and you should pull in a harvest close to that of a 600w HPS

 

[TheCapn]

LED's are great , but only if you buy 3x the suggested amount of LED's for your space. Thats the only way you will match the yield of HPS

So if you're buying an LED for a 3x3 space, buy at least 2 of those LED's in order to get a yield similar to the equivalent wattage in HID.

Example. 2 old model topLED 300w panels (they're like $106 each) get 2 of those and put them in a 3x3 space and you should pull in a harvest close to that of a 600w HPS

+1.

The only LED harvests I've seen that are worth looking at, are when people are using at least 60W per sq ft of growing space. Check out Icemud's grow. One of the best LED grows I've seen... but 540W and $1350 worth of lights in a 2x4 tent! Sheesh! Imagine trying to light up a 4x4 tent. That would be $2700. The lights will be outdated before you would ever gain back your investment, saving $10 a month on electricity.

I remember back in the day when I was reading Jorge Cervantes' Bible. He said the suggested amount of light is 60W per sq ft. With 600W/13sql ft = 46W per sq ft, I average about .85gpw in my 3.6' x 3.6' scrogs. The most I've ever hit was 1.04gpw. And keep in mind, this is ONE PLANT. Icemud had several plants in his 2 x 4 tent. More plants in the same area will always yield a little more. NOTE... to the readers here that are new growers, or readers looking to increase your hauls... it's not difficult to reach these yields. Yes, there is time and patience involved, but if you can follow a cookbook, you can grow a lb under a 600W hps all year long.

S1ing does better than me in the same space with his 1000W HPS. His gpw isn't quite as high, but who cares? As long as he gets 1/2oz more than me in the same space, it's worth the extra $20 a month he is paying for the 1000W. gpw is fun to talk about, and a good goal to strive for, but don't get hung up on reaching 1gpw.

Sorry for the rant, GT. On with your grow! You are adding so much stuff, soon your place is going to be glowing from outer space.

 

[Greenthumb J]

Thats why i have everything contained in tents!!!

Before i got the veg tent.. i could see the HPS glow out of my window when i looked from outside while walking my dog

Keep in mind, this was during the middle of the summer here when i needed to have the 8x8 tent open and my AC blowing towards the door to avoid 30c+ temps inside.

Now i can have the tent wide open, and my new veg tent blocks the window!! haha WIN!

I digress tho.. its now cool enough here in the lower mainland of BC to keep my 8x8 tent closed now and not have temps go over 25c.. Can probably stop running my AC too, but i like the extra cool temps in my grow rooms. as well as water temps ranging from 16-20c due to the extra cold air being circulated around the rooms.

high levels of DO in my water and no damn chiller to keep those temps!

 

[Radogast]

LED's are great , but only if you buy 3x the suggested amount of LED's for your space. Thats the only way you will match the yield of HPS

So if you're buying an LED for a 3x3 space, buy at least 2 of those LED's in order to get a yield similar to the equivalent wattage in HID.

Example. 2 old model topLED 300w panel's (they're like $106 each) get 2 of those and put them in a 3x3 space and you should pull in a harvest close to that of a 600w HPS

+2

This is exactly what I am discovering in veg. I thought I would be able to use 2 old model TopLED 100x3w at least through veg.
My plants are a deep green, but not growing as well as try did under 2 600w HPS.
I'll be switching to 1 600w HPS and 2x300w LEDs in a few days.
Not too surprising, the 300 watt rating freshly only draws 300 watts at 220 volts, at 110 it's closer to 150 watts.
It seems LEDs have the same sort of bogus wattage "equivalence" as household fluorescent bulbs.

That said, I'm pleased with the 300w TopLED so far. It it's allowing me to expand my grow area with less heat concerns

 

[Greenthumb J]

Thank you kindly for the Reps Radogast!

I was contemplating with Lady GT the other day about the future direction of our grow here, whether or not to use T5's for veg or LED's.

What i'm finding using this 4ft 4-bulb 220w T5HO fixture from Prolight, is i can stuff a hell of a lot of plants underneath it.. lower the fixture right over top of the canopy and still get approximately 3'x4.5' coverage. I doubt i could get the same coverage with a 300w LED as close to my canopy as this thing is.

The thing is, in order of me to get an adequate amount of LED's in the veg area to get a decent amount of vegetative growth (cause i find it rather slow to be honest) I would need to spend quite a few hundred dollars on LED panels (decent ones that is!)

I'd say 900w or more is the ideal amount of wattage for veg when using LED's.
For flower, i would suggest somewhere in the range of 1400-2000w of LED watts to pull in a noteworthy harvest.

Using that much LED power, you would definitely be able to match a 600w HPS yield WITH ONE PLANT!!

But you would also be putting out as much heat as that same light with that much LED power going on.. Remember, they might produce less heat, but the heat just goes into the room, raising room temps, whereas air cooled hoods and CoolTubes vent 90% of the heat out of the room.

The thing i'm seeing with LED grows, is theres never only one plant under the LED's. theres always multiple, and multiple are needed in order to get more than a couple zips from your harvest.

I'm doing a side by side grow with Cannabis 1 starting in about a month, and he is going to veg his THC bombs under a MARS II 1200w, whereas i am going to veg my THC Bombs under the T5 and my 165w LED for side lighting, then the 600w and the LED for a couple weeks before putting it into flower (Thats only if the LED tent turns out to be male. If not, the LED will still be in use). We both will be flowering our plants under the same amount of light, 2x 600w HPS. I'm interested to see the difference in vegetative growth under the T5's compared to the MARS II