Mars-Hydro LED Grow Light Discussion

[Mars Hydro]

Hi Shaggn, I am sorrry... we are not allowed to tell it to anyone else...If you need the leds, you can contact us.

Hi Sara, could you please post the led parts numbers that are used in the reflector 144/5 please. Can either post here or pm me with the info. I tried looking it up off the site but couldn't find the info. I'm very happy thus far with my purchase. Thank you. Peace!!

 

[Mars Hydro]

Happy Labor Day Everybody！Head down to ‪MarsHydro‬ for our big ‎LaborDaySpecials‬！！Place your purchase over certain amount to get FREE lights or tents~The more you spend，the better FREE products you get！Sale ends soon，3Days only，hurry！ Mars Hydro LED Grow Lights - Horticulture | Indoor Plants

Sale Details：
Free Reflector48 LED grow light or 4'X4' Grow Tent on orders $2000+
Free Reflector 96 LED grow light on orders $3000+
Free Mars II 700 LED grow light on orders $5000+
Free Mars II 1600 LED grow light on orders $9000+
Free MarsPro II Epistar320 LED grow light on orders $12000+
Free MarsPro II Cree256 LED grow light on orders $15000+

 

[Icemud]

HiIcemud, thanks for the info. Our Cree is XPE series. If the Bin is only graded by the lumen, it will be like you put. In fact, Cree doesn't label Bin for the leds. The difference between the lumens in the same category is due to the wavelength. For RED, the shorter the wavelength is, the higher the lumen is. For Blue, the longer the wavelength, the higher the lumen is. For White, the lower the color temperature is, the higher the lumen is. Take Cree XPE Red for example, the wavelength range is 620~630, Group N3 with the lowest lumen tends to be 630nm while Group P4 with the highest lumen tends to be 620nm. We choose the led based on the specific wavelength not the lumen. The price is actually similar in the same category. The spectrum we choose is 440nm, 630nm，660nm, 2700k-3000k. If we select the led chip only by high lumen, the Blue M3 will be more like white color and Red P4 appears green. HPS with the white light has very high lumen but I don't think it will be counted as higher Bin for growing plant compared to LED grow light.

Cree actually does label the BIN for LED's. This is so when building a light, you can ensure color and brightness consistency when ordering rolls of leds.

LED's are sorted into dominant peak wavelength, and then for luminous flux... So within each color grouping (for instance 620nm, is R2 and 630nm is R3). Brightness factor is INDEPENDENT of wavelength as each group, sorted by wavelength, is also sorted by luminous flux.

For instance: A red 620nm chip can be purchased in 5 different groups of brightness (flux), but they are all 620nm. You can get a red 620nm chip in LOW BINS N2 and N3 which are the dimmest in the wavelength group at 56.8lm, and 62lm. Or it can be purchased at a HIGHER BIN with is STILL 620nm, but the luminous flux is higher (brighter) at P2 (67.2), P3 (73.9) and P4 (80.6) lumens. These are all R2 (620nm) The wavelength is part of the order code, however for each dominant wavelength, there also is a choice of luminous flux (efficiency) for the power they are driven at.

In your example above you state

Take Cree XPE Red for example, the wavelength range is 620~630, Group N3 with the lowest lumen tends to be 630nm while Group P4 with the highest lumen tends to be 620nm. We choose the led based on the specific wavelength not the lumen. The price is actually similar in the same category.

But if you look at the BIN chart, provided by CREE, Group N3 with the lower lumen flux, also can be purchased in EITHER 620 OR 630nm. (Group R2 620nm or R3 630nm).

The only reason I even chose to correct the Mars rep was because it was stated which you use High BIN which isn't correct and misleading. High BIN is generally associated with highest brightness, however within the BIN, yes you can order wavelength/chromatography specific chips, they still are sorted by brightness within each wavelength.

The price is actually similar in the same category.

This also isn't quite accurate... the difference between a lower BIN chips like the RED's you use, vs the same wavelength (620nm) in a higher BIN (radiant flux) is about $0.80 per chip difference. If the price was the same, why wouldn't you use the brighter chips (higher BIN/luminous flux)? If we can be honest for a moment, we would see that by using HIGH BIN RED CREEs in your Pros, you would have to charge an additional $52 per LED panel ($0.80 x 64 chips) , which would cut into your cost margin, so in most cases, LED companies will use lower bins so they can charge a premium for the panel by using the brand name "cree" but still getting away with high profit margins by using Lower BIN chips. This may not be the case with Mars Hydro, but as you said, if the price is similar, why WOULDN'T you use the Brightest BIN possible???

If we select the led chip only by high lumen, the Blue M3 will be more like white color and Red P4 appears green.

This is also incorrect, a RED P4 will never appear green, RED P4 is either going to be 620nm (R2) or 630nm (R3). All that P4 means is that in the grouping of 620 or 630nm red XPE chips, the P4 BIN is the brightest or red chip with the highest luminous flux. Also a blue M3 chip is only going to be 465, 470 or 480nm, with M3 only being the BIN for the highest brightness within the BINNING of chips of those wavelengths. M3 only means its brighter, but the peak wavelength doesn't change, and it will not appear white... (sorry but this is wrong).

A red chip in the 620 range will never appear green, however staring at a red chip for a long time will make a white LED appear green (hence the many questions on here about mars using green LEDs.) of course you don't, and the green that people are seeing is because the cones in the eye, are sensitive to 3 main colors, red green and blue. When looking at red light for a long time (primarily the main LED's in most grow lights) the Red sensitive Cones in the eye become less sensitive because of the abundance of red light, therefor the cones that sense green and blue become more sensitive, therefore giving the impression of a Green chip, even though we know its actually white. Since white is made up of all colors, this is why a chip may appear a different color than it actually is, because of the cones in our eyes. A 620nm chip is never going to appear green though due to BINNING

Not trying to cause any friction, but I just thought I would correct the information that isn't exactly correct.

 

[Mars Hydro]

Thank You, Icemud. I understand it now. Great info. You are probably right. Now we will take three days off. Therefore sometimes we will be slow to reply the emails. But please don't worry, we will get back on Tuesday. Everything will be on track. Don't forget our Promotion on this holiday. I will miss you!!!

 

[resinous]

Sara can you please send me another another driver for my mars pro epi 160.
Another driver has gone back . It's only been 75 days since I ordered it and another driver is out !!

Sent from my SM-P600 using 420

 

[Eugene1]

Re: Mars-Hydro LED Grow Light problem

Hello Sara,
Here is a follow up to my faulty Mars2 700. After getting only the replacement LEDs for my unit and not the driver, I received an e mail from support asking for more pictures. I originally had sent two sets of photos and it was determined that I needed a new driver as well as replacement LEDs for the ones that was burnt out. Now I received a e mail stating that you are out of stock for drivers! This is terrible!!

 

[Frank8898]

Hi Kriaze,

Just wondering where did you get the info about the humidity ? It's not stated on their website that their lights shouldn't be exposed to humidity higher than 50%. Their website warranty disclaimer only states that it shouldn't be exposed to dripping water. Unfortunately I voluntarily let my humidity get higher than 50%.
Now I have 3 mars 1200 looking exactly the same as yours and they don't want to repair them under warranty ...

This brings a questions : Shouldn't a gardening product be able to withstand humidity levels higher than 50% ?

A little Google search on growroom humidity pops this answer :

The humidity level is like a pressure cap on the plant, keeping the moisture in the plant, allowing it to have proper transpiration rates of the fluids. Ideal humidity levels in a grow room range between 50% to 70% in vegetative growth, and 50% to 60% for flowering plants.

I'd agree with you guys that 45-55% during flowering might be more advisable but for growth a 50-70 is still optimal.

But the lights aren't made to withstand more than 50%???

 

[Kriaze]

Hi Kriaze,

Just wondering where did you get the info about the humidity ? It's not stated on their website that their lights shouldn't be exposed to humidity higher than 50%. Their website warranty disclaimer only states that it shouldn't be exposed to dripping water. Unfortunately I voluntarily let my humidity get higher than 50%.
Now I have 3 mars 1200 looking exactly the same as yours and they don't want to repair them under warranty ...

This brings a questions : Shouldn't a gardening product be able to withstand humidity levels higher than 50% ?

A little Google search on growroom humidity pops this answer :

The humidity level is like a pressure cap on the plant, keeping the moisture in the plant, allowing it to have proper transpiration rates of the fluids. Ideal humidity levels in a grow room range between 50% to 70% in vegetative growth, and 50% to 60% for flowering plants.

I'd agree with you guys that 45-55% during flowering might be more advisable but for growth a 50-70 is still optimal.

But the lights aren't made to withstand more than 50%???

Hello Frank8898 and welcome to . There was no 50% humidity maximum that I was aware of I was merely stating my environmental conditions over its period of use. I'm pretty sure that I saw an upper limit on the old MH site which was in the area of 80/90% but I cannot confirm this for certain without checking back through my old screenshots which I keep of terms and conditions etc and anything else that I feel is relevant at the time. If I get the chance I will have a dig through my phone later, but if you purchased from the new site I doubt the info would even be relevant to your particular purchase as there were quite a few changes made to the warranties etc (which is why screenshots do come in handy).

I feel for you and I would suggest that you bring the topic up here if you haven't already in the hope that public opinion can sway Sara into action on your behalf. Not always an easy task I might add as it would depend on who is online to read your post and whether they are fanatical about protecting MH as a company or whether they are one of the more reasonable minded people. Definitely not the best way to promote a business on a public thread but it is what it is and I can only hope that you get a reasonable response to your post. Personally I am done with this company and once I have sold my MH lights I will also be done with this thread, except for maybe popping in to inject my own perspective and sense of reasoning if someone is being hounded by the fanbase.

All the best and please do not judge the rest of 420Magazine by the responses you will receive on this particular thread, it is a great place filled with great minds and souls that are caring and sharing. All the best

 

[Frank8898]

Hi again Kriaze,
Indeed i might need your screenshoots. I purchased my lights from top led ( before they became mars hydro)

Id send you this by pm but i cant since i dont have enough post.

and a big thank you for taking some of your time to answer.

Good day to you and to the formidable 420 community

 

[Kriaze]

Hi again Kriaze,
Indeed i might need your screenshoots. I purchased my lights from top led ( before they became mars hydro)

Id send you this by pm but i cant since i dont have enough post.

and a big thank you for taking some of your time to answer.

Good day to you and to the formidable 420 community

I will have a look through my screenshots this evening when I have time but I'm not sure how much use they will be to you as if they're set on not honouring their warranty they will claim that they changed their disclaimers when moving to the MH brand. As a side note when I realised that they had undergone a brand change it did set alarm bells ringing, along with the time they offered people on this forum free lights for giving false reviews on Amazon. If there are any naysayers out there then I shall only suggest that you read through the thread and you will see. All the best, an ex Mars Hydro customer that has just bought new lights.

 

[TorturedSoul]

It's nice that you took so much of an interest

I have taken an interest - in LED panels, in Mars-Hydro's products, and... in your journal, lol.

that you decided to go into the back sections of the site

That isn't precisely what I did. You have handy links to your grow journals in your .SIG. I'm not trying to give offense, so please don't take it that way, but: If you do not wish people who are looking for information about LEDs to wander into one of your journals, maybe you shouldn't have links to them in your .SIG - at least in posts you make in a thread (this one) about LEDs.

to cherry pick some of my older posts

See above. Additionally, I didn't exactly cherry-pick. As mentioned, I'm trying to learn about these products (and am generally curious also ). Your recent posts in this thread caused me to believe that you aren't (currently) satisfied. As at least two of the links in your .SIG are to grow journals utilizing LEDs (and a third link is about photographing with them), I assumed that you had some knowledge and experience. It has been my experience that people who are vastly in favor of something tend to focus on the positives far more than the negatives (and the opposite for those who are definitely NOT in favor of it); perhaps this isn't even a conscious thing, but merely human nature. I saw you as a person who has - at different points in time - been somewhat on both ends of the scale. I thought, "This could be educational."

Additionally, I was struck by the helpfulness that you encountered when dealing with the company which you expressed in the post that I quoted. I saw it as a company - or at least a company rep - going above and beyond what is expected these days. IDK how close you are physically to the location that your products shipped from, but even discounting distance, the "human factor" alone often means that one cannot reasonably expect to order a product and see it arrive on their doorstep a day or two later. This, by itself, speaks nothing (either positive or negative) in terms of the quality of a product, of course. But it still seems noteworthy to me (ergo, I noted it ).

I am not in the habit of apologizing for reading the words that someone must have meant me to read (otherwise, why would they have posted them in a public venue?). But I will offer an apology if you feel that I have given offense.

when my lights were new and my eyes full of shine.

See above regarding the "honeymoon phase."

It's a shame you missed the others that weren't so positive

Yes. Even I have found the idea of reading a thread, that has almost 25,000 posts, in its entirety to be somewhat daunting. Which is one reason why I jumped at the opportunity to read the words of someone who has been both positive AND negative in regards to these things.

with people like you working for MH

alone
I have never been employed by Mars-Hydro or (to the best of my knowledge) any of its agents, employees, suppliers, et cetera. Nor have I ever purchased one of their products. I have also never been sent one to test out for myself; I would be very much interested in doing so, but... <SHRUGS> I've no nice grow journals to point to in hopes of catching someone's eye. I'm also the type of person who'll look for - and then point out - both the positives AND negatives of a product, so I am sure that I am not at the top of companies' "Product Review and Test" list, lol.

and that sort of diligent attitude their customer service would not be failing so often.

Err... One supposes that customer service is important to a business. One also supposes that many other things are important, too (among them being quality of the product(s) and its/their component parts, ability to meet the customer's needs, to offer timely service, et cetera).

Well done you!

Sarcasm noted. Objectively speaking... Somewhat appreciated .

People's attitudes change

Yes, exactly. It is not everyday that one is able to observe both ends - a person who has become less positive might not speak about it (due to embarrassment, if nothing else). Those who weren't all that positive before may not have spoken at that point, and only voice their thoughts/opinions/observations later, when they have become so. Et cetera.

(a month without a main flowering light can change one's opinion)

Lol. Yes, that is wisdom, indeed. Even under the best possible circumstances (those that stop short of "everything works fine, and will continue to do so no matter what" at least), one should have backup lights that are held in reserve against future need. Sadly, this is often (usually, lol?) not the case. Many don't make a dime off their grows; for them, expenses aren't "the cost of doing business" - they are, well, expenses. People might not want to spend part of their - often, limited - income for something that, if everything goes according to plan, will just sit on a shelf in a closet somewhere. Other people... At one time, things were going well for me and I had backups (MH and HPS bulbs and a bulletproof switchable ballast); a few grows later, somehow, they had stopped being backups - I had incorporated them into my grow.

I've been thinking about this. It's actually one of the things that caused me to start reading about Mars-Hydro in the first place; the fact that their panels are modular in nature - and that the company is willing to ship components for repair directly to the consumer instead of requiring that said customer ship the product back for service, if the customer feels that he/she can make the repair - is appealing to me.

My opinion is that Mars-Hydro could use some degree of improvement in this regard. It'd be nice if there were well-stocked locations in every single country in which they sell their products, even if those locations were only staffed by people who could read emails, identify components by their labels, and then pack & ship boxes, lol. Good location of these sites (and a good stock of components) would aid in reducing customer's down-time.

That stuff costs money, of course. This particular company seems to have prices that are reasonable (in comparison to other LED sellers). Therefore, they might be walking a fine line in regards to what they can offer whilst still making a profit. I have no idea, to be honest. There are a lot more people growing cannabis than in the past. But, still, it is somewhat of a limited market (and it is further limited because not every (indoor) cannabis grower does so with LEDs).

I would think... Well, I am not a businessman, so what I think might be wrong, lol. However... Perhaps - assuming that the components are actually in stock, of course - it might be worthwhile to offer some form of expedited/rush shipping? FedEx (et al) offers various "levels" of shipping including three different "overnight" options and even a "same day" option (depending on flight availability, of course). Some of those options are quite expensive, lol, and I would never expect the burden of such shipping to fall upon the company. IDK if enough customers would be interested in paying a premium for high-priority shipping or not. IF that turned out to be the case, it might be helpful (both to the customers and as a selling point for the products).

your point was?

I think I made a couple. I hope that this post helped clarify. Perhaps my previous post gave the wrong impression (I was about to crash and was in a hurry), and I'm sorry if this was the case.

The difference between the lumens in the same category is due to the wavelength. For RED, the shorter the wavelength is, the higher the lumen is. For Blue, the longer the wavelength, the higher the lumen is. For White, the lower the color temperature is, the higher the lumen is.

That makes sense. The lumen is sort of an "artificial" measurement (so to speak). It was not created, nor really suitable, for measuring the (+/-) light radiation that is used by plants. The lumen - and luminous flux - is heavily weighted to give more importance to what the human eye can perceive.

If one has two light sources that both consume the same amount of energy (and which are, for the purposes of discussion, equally efficient)... One of which is a general-purpose - or even an agricultural HPS/MH - and the other is an LED panel that produces ONLY the wavelengths that have been found to (positively) affect plants, then of course the LED will produce less lumen (/luminous flux).

The LED panel will, on the other hand, have a higher PAR (photosynthetically active radiation) and, presumably, a better YPF (yield photon flux) curve.

I have always assumed that the above is one of the reasons that some HID bulbs that were (supposed to be) tailored for use in growing plants had a lower lumen specification than other bulbs. The other reason being... some HID bulbs just aren't very good in general .

This brings a questions : Shouldn't a gardening product be able to withstand humidity levels higher than 50% ?

I've always thought so. OtOH, true "certified for greenhouse" agricultural lighting seems to be "somewhat" rare, lol. It has been several years, so this might have changed, but the only company that I knew of back then that stated (at least some of) their products were suitable for damp locations was Gavita - and, wow, the customer sure paid for that . Seems to me that you could encounter both heat issues and efficiency issues; heat builds up in sealed products, and enclosing the illumination source behind glass (etc.) ensures that some of the output won't get through to the garden (and could possibly shift its spectrum slightly?). The heat issue could (most likely, would) shorten product life and tend to raise warranty claims (that costs money no matter how you look at it, and can often cost reputation).

As I stated, it has been several years since I even checked into it. It could, I suppose, be that every other LED panel than Mars-Hydro's is certified for use in damp/wet/greenhouse locations. But I very much doubt it, lol. I don't think moisture is good for electric/electronic things, and I don't think that sealing them up is, either. And even with good ventilation - and good airflow in a product - moisture can still accumulate. Especially if/when the product repeatedly heats/cools (by being used for part of a day, then shut off, then being used for part of the next day, then being...).

I bet they could design a product that could be certified for the uses that we tend to force them to endure. I'd guess that it'd double (triple?) the price, though. And how many would they manage to sell?

My apologies to SmokeSara for rambling in her (his?) thread. This post is a little longer than I had originally intended.

 

[Frank8898]

The point here sir is that I feel that they are misleading their customers. I don't need to be told that electronics shouldn't be exposed to humid environments. I am pretty aware of that but considering this product is made to grow plants it should be able to withstand the parameters required for a healthy growth. As exposed earlier a humidity of 50-70% is recommended to a vegetative growth if you don't want to expose your plants to an unnecessary stress.

And as far as I know this forum isn't about growing cactus and they are advertising their products here...


Why sell a lamp that is good for vegetative growth as well as flowering but make it unable to tolerate the required parameters ? And offer a warranty over that ???

Sell it without a warranty and at least your customers will be able to make a sound choice. Or at least give a warning. Write it somewhere. So your customers wont void their warranty thinking that they are doing nothing wrong and they won't feel cheated afterward.

This whole story doesn't make sense.


Also I'm not here to start a war or be the target of troll nukes . I just want to share my experience and help people to make an intelligent choice when they choose to purchase a product. So far I have no positive review to make of their customer service. This might change but so far things haven't been going smoothly.

Thank you

Frank

I've always thought so. OtOH, true "certified for greenhouse" agricultural lighting seems to be "somewhat" rare, lol. It has been several years, so this might have changed, but the only company that I knew of back then that stated (at least some of) their products were suitable for damp locations was Gavita - and, wow, the customer sure paid for that . Seems to me that you could encounter both heat issues and efficiency issues; heat builds up in sealed products, and enclosing the illumination source behind glass (etc.) ensures that some of the output won't get through to the garden (and could possibly shift its spectrum slightly?). The heat issue could (most likely, would) shorten product life and tend to raise warranty claims (that costs money no matter how you look at it, and can often cost reputation).

As I stated, it has been several years since I even checked into it. It could, I suppose, be that every other LED panel than Mars-Hydro's is certified for use in damp/wet/greenhouse locations. But I very much doubt it, lol. I don't think moisture is good for electric/electronic things, and I don't think that sealing them up is, either. And even with good ventilation - and good airflow in a product - moisture can still accumulate. Especially if/when the product repeatedly heats/cools (by being used for part of a day, then shut off, then being used for part of the next day, then being...).

I bet they could design a product that could be certified for the uses that we tend to force them to endure. I'd guess that it'd double (triple?) the price, though. And how many would they manage to sell?

My apologies to SmokeSara for rambling in her (his?) thread. This post is a little longer than I had originally intended.

 

[Iguana Man]

Can anyone tell me how long the power cord is for the Mars Hydro 300?

(I tried searching to no avail)

 

[bigbuckfever]

Do they use the same chips in the reflector serious as they do marsII? I have a reflector 96x3 and i like it more than the mars II 700

 

[Neil74]

Here they come again, in one... two... three Sara announces a holiday and the weekend whiners show up. I have needed warranty service three times... I have had excellant warranty service three times. Coincidence? I doubt it. Sara announces a holiday and in one...two..three here come the nonstop complaints until Sara is back???? Then you are all gone until the next holiday? Sell it, have it fixed or stick it where the sun don't shine. If you are having bad warranty service you are not trying they bend over backwards to help buyers of their lights.

 

[noobiegrow]

Can anyone tell me how long the power cord is for the Mars Hydro 300?

(I tried searching to no avail)

About 4ft

 

[Iguana Man]

About 4ft

Thanks!

 

[noobiegrow]

Thanks!

And if that's too short you can just buy cords off eBay to the length you want for like 2 bucks.

 

[db003]

hey Sara any news yet when they will contact me to ship out my mars pro II 320 light that I won in the mars hydro cup 2016 I am just wondering

 

[gudyul]

The other troll is very articulate indeed. I have here a side by side synergy 1200 and 144. The 144 seems to be holding it's own at half the amps . I have had no issues with the 144 , not like the 1200. The trade off may be in the bud, we'll see.