Medical Grow

[John Whorfin]

Just FYI guys, out of the Hemp Diseased & Pest mgmt. & bio. control book, exposure to the chemical in NPS on a daily basis over a life time puts you in a 1&4 chances for getting cancer.
Damn, they do - do the job very well.

Best Regards,
John Whorfin.

 

[Munki]

Just FYI guys, out of the Hemp Diseased & Pest mgmt. & bio. control book, exposure to the chemical in NPS on a daily basis over a life time puts you in a 1&4 chances for getting cancer.
Damn, they do - do the job very well.

Best Regards,
John Whorfin.

Here is Ralph Nader's take on them.

Don't Buy No-Pest Strip - The Nader Page

Wiki entry for DDVP

"Dichlorvos or 2,2-dichlorovinyl dimethyl phosphate (DDVP) is a highly volatile organophosphate, widely used as a insecticide to control household pests, in public health, and protecting stored product from insects. It is effective against mushroom flies, aphids, spider mites, caterpillars, thrips, and whiteflies in greenhouse, outdoor fruit, and vegetable crops. It is also used in the milling and grain handling industries and to treat a variety of parasitic worm infections in dogs, livestock, and humans. It is fed to livestock to control bot fly larvae in the manure. It acts against insects as both a contact and a stomach poison. It is available as an aerosol and soluble concentrate. It is also used in pet collars and "no-pest strips" as pesticide-impregnated plastic. The United States Environmental Protection Agency first considered a ban on DDVP in 1981. Since then it has been close to being banned on several occasions, but continues to be available. Major concerns are over acute and chronic toxicity. There is no conclusive evidence of carcinogenicity to date, however a 2010 study found that each 10-fold increase in urinary concentration of organophosphate metabolites was associated with a 55% to 72% increase in the odds of ADHD in children.[1]
DDVP is absorbed through all routes of exposure. its symptoms are weakness, headache, tightness in chest, blurred vision, salivation, sweating, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and abdominal cramps."


I would avoid them myself but to each their own.

 

[Setting Sun]

I wouldn't use them in sleeping quarters, or living quarters, but I'm OK with them in my garage.

I'm exposed to a lot of things on a daily basis that Mr. Nader would no doubt be alarmed over.

 

[Munki]

I wouldn't use them in sleeping quarters, or living quarters, but I'm OK with them in my garage.

I'm exposed to a lot of things on a daily basis that Mr. Nader would no doubt be alarmed over.

Yeah, but a lot of people grow inside their homes. Something to consider. Their ease of use does have a downside.

I assume that the volatile nature of the chemical would not impregnate the plant but I just don't know for sure if it chemically bonds with anything in Cannabis.

 

[Setting Sun]

It's not absorbed by plants, or I wouldn't be using it.

 

[Munki]

It's not absorbed by plants, or I wouldn't be using it.

Got anything scientific to back that up? The issue wasn't so much concerning acute exposure but chronic, low level exposure for humans. Could be ten years later that you get cancer but cannot tie it back to the DDVP.

 

[Setting Sun]

yep, I researched it extensively, but I'll have to find the cite.

I'll report back when I find it.

 

[Doc Bud]

I also researched it. It is recommended for long term grain and produce storage. It is recommended for inside the house use, in closets, crawlspaces, cabinets, etc.

They do not recommend using in an area where you will get more than 4 hours per day exposure.

I just put out 4 in my room. I'm going to kill the Fu@^iN$ spider mites....then I'll put 3 of them in a bag and save them.

I never stay in the room for more than an hour, let alone 4 hours. When i am going to be there for an extended period, I put the NPS in a sealed plastic bag.

The plants won't be hurt, neither will I.

 

[Setting Sun]

Here's a pretty reputable cite:


https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp88.pdf

from page 21:

"Dichlorvos is not stored, accumulated, or concentrated by plants, fish, animals, or people."

 

[Munki]

From the Alliance for Healthy Homes June 2006...

Alliance Alert: June 2006


"EPA to Restrict Some Uses of Pest Strip Insecticide

The EPA, in response to a request from pesticide product manufacturer AMVAC, is poised to restrict some uses of a common “pest strip” insecticide known as DDVP, or diclorvos. DDVP is an organophosphate insecticide, a class of highly toxic pesticides. Low-level exposure to DDVP can cause headaches, nausea, and vomiting; large doses of the poison can be fatal. Laboratory studies have also shown that DDVP can cause cancer; California classifies it as a “known carcinogen,” and the World Health Organization and the EPA name it a “possible human carcinogen.”

The largest of the pest strips, often used in homes, will be completely removed from the market. The second-largest size will be limited to use in garages, attics, crawl spaces, and sheds where people spend fewer than four hours each day. The smallest size pest strip will be restricted for use in closets, wardrobes, and cupboards. Pest strips impacted include AlcoR No-Pest Strip, AMVAC Insect Strip, AlcoR Pest Strip, AMVAC No-Pest Strip, and Swat Pest Strip.

Environmental health advocates asserted that EPA and AMVAC are not going far enough; the advocates say that all home uses of DDVP should be cancelled because the pesticide is one of the most potent toxins currently on the market.

"All of these uses inside the home are dangerous things. That's what is of most concern," said Aaron Colangelo of the Natural Resources Defense Council. He noted that DDVP is already banned in Great Britain, Denmark, and Sweden.

For information on how to combat insects and other pests in the home using integrated pest management (IPM) instead of high-toxicity pesticides, see Pesticides and www.beyondpesticides.org."


That the EPA does not ban this product does not mean it is safe by any means. It just means that the manufacturers of the DDVP have deep pockets in which to pay the right people.

If you go by what the government says, then you should probably ingest the DDVP and get rid of the Cannabis as the plants you are growing are a Schedule I substance which of course has no medical use and is very dangerous.

Again, to each his own. I just don't want everyone reading these posts about these strips that they are harmless. Millions of pet collars impregnated with this substance used to be sold in the US. Can you find them for sale anymore?

 

[Doc Bud]

From the Alliance for Healthy Homes June 2006...

Alliance Alert: June 2006


"EPA to Restrict Some Uses of Pest Strip Insecticide

The EPA, in response to a request from pesticide product manufacturer AMVAC, is poised to restrict some uses of a common "pest strip" insecticide known as DDVP, or diclorvos. DDVP is an organophosphate insecticide, a class of highly toxic pesticides. Low-level exposure to DDVP can cause headaches, nausea, and vomiting; large doses of the poison can be fatal. Laboratory studies have also shown that DDVP can cause cancer; California classifies it as a "known carcinogen," and the World Health Organization and the EPA name it a "possible human carcinogen."

The largest of the pest strips, often used in homes, will be completely removed from the market. The second-largest size will be limited to use in garages, attics, crawl spaces, and sheds where people spend fewer than four hours each day. The smallest size pest strip will be restricted for use in closets, wardrobes, and cupboards. Pest strips impacted include AlcoR No-Pest Strip, AMVAC Insect Strip, AlcoR Pest Strip, AMVAC No-Pest Strip, and Swat Pest Strip.

Environmental health advocates asserted that EPA and AMVAC are not going far enough; the advocates say that all home uses of DDVP should be cancelled because the pesticide is one of the most potent toxins currently on the market.

"All of these uses inside the home are dangerous things. That's what is of most concern," said Aaron Colangelo of the Natural Resources Defense Council. He noted that DDVP is already banned in Great Britain, Denmark, and Sweden.

For information on how to combat insects and other pests in the home using integrated pest management (IPM) instead of high-toxicity pesticides, see Pesticides and Beyond Pesticides."


That the EPA does not ban this product does not mean it is safe by any means. It just means that the manufacturers of the DDVP have deep pockets in which to pay the right people.

If you go by what the government says, then you should probably ingest the DDVP and get rid of the Cannabis as the plants you are growing are a Schedule I substance which of course has no medical use and is very dangerous.

Again, to each his own. I just don't want everyone reading these posts about these strips that they are harmless. Millions of pet collars impregnated with this substance used to be sold in the US. Can you find them for sale anymore?

I appreciate what you've shared, Munki.
However, I believe that the chemicals we use to kill mites are worse than these NPS's.

Right now, for the next couple days, I'll not spend more than a few minutes in the grow room. Then, when I'm certain all the hippies are dead, I'll bag up all but one of the NPS and carry on as usual. If I'll be in the room for more than an hour, I'll bag that one too.

There are MANY factors that go into government regulations of drugs, pesticides and the like. As you pointed out, politics are more often than not the driving force, not health and safety.

After doing my homework, I'm convinced these things are safe if used properly....but I do appreciate you sharing an alternative point of view so people can make up their own minds with some good information.

BTW....the garden is in over drive! Green, fat, waxy leaves....healthy stems and petioles, pre-flowers everywhere.

This is shaping up to be my best effort yet.....but I may have an over crowding problem. Lot's of pruning will be in order.

I should have a handful of Green Crack clones coming Monday....and maybe some PPP!

I should start flowering next week.

 

[Munki]

Too much success does create the overcrowding problem; something from which I suffer presently.

 

[Doc Bud]

Too much success does create the overcrowding problem; something from which I suffer presently.

Yep! I'm willing to live with it.

 

[HighWaterMark]

Dang, you have 30 plants, or did I miscount the photos? How many hours a day do you have to spend with these creatures to keep them well? It's a healthy looking grow. Plaudits to the man.

 

[Doc Bud]

Dang, you have 30 plants, or did I miscount the photos? How many hours a day do you have to spend with these creatures to keep them well? It's a healthy looking grow. Plaudits to the man.

 

[GrownManHollr]

Too many amazing plants to grow under your 3 1,000 watt lights! My heart bleeds for you Doc!

It was a really interesting point you made when explaining how you're keeping your temps and humidity in check. The 3 lights absolutely must be helping to keep the RH down.

Actually makes me think that a vented HID might be a better choice for my grow space (someday). Humidity is the bane of my existence! The dehumidifier runs all the time to keep RH under 50%. The heat created by the dehumidifier causes the AC to run which brings in humidity from outside (the AC mixes a certain amount of fresh air in with what's drawn in from the inside). It's a vicious cycle!

Do you think that one of the CAP or Sentinel controllers could help these things run in a more sane manner? Even with lighting that doesn't create a lot of heat, the climate where I live will require AC most of the year.

Glad to see that things are going well for you there!

 

[Doc Bud]

Too many amazing plants to grow under your 3 1,000 watt lights! My heart bleeds for you Doc!

It was a really interesting point you made when explaining how you're keeping your temps and humidity in check. The 3 lights absolutely must be helping to keep the RH down.

Actually makes me think that a vented HID might be a better choice for my grow space (someday). Humidity is the bane of my existence! The dehumidifier runs all the time to keep RH under 50%. The heat created by the dehumidifier causes the AC to run which brings in humidity from outside (the AC mixes a certain amount of fresh air in with what's drawn in from the inside). It's a vicious cycle!

Do you think that one of the CAP or Sentinel controllers could help these things run in a more sane manner? Even with lighting that doesn't create a lot of heat, the climate where I live will require AC most of the year.

Glad to see that things are going well for you there!

Well, I have a CAP at my old grow room, and it served well. However, it isn't nearly as versatile. It would only turn on a de-humidifier. There was no humidifier option. Also, it would only turn on a cooling device, not a heater. It did shut off C02 when the fan came on, however....and it did have a photocell.

The new sentinel controller is far more versatile. I like it much better.

Look into getting a portable AC that vents outside. My AC is a better dehumidifier than an AC. Sure, it cools things down just fine, but it really dries out the air! That's the main reason I am able to get my temps and RH dialed in so well.

The AC drops the humidity constantly.....so the swamp cooler has to come on to bring it up, which also lowers the temps a bit. Then, as the temps rise the AC kicks in again and the cycle repeats.

My temps are remarkably stable, as is the RH. Running 50 at night, 55 during the day. There is a 2 point deadband that is programmable by the controller. I could go with a 1 point deadband, but the cooler just turns on and off constantly.

As far as I'm concerned, the more I read about indoor/greenhouse growing, the more convinced I am that environment is the single biggest factor that determines outcome.

Nutes almost don't matter....there are dozens of companies that can supply the plants with what they need....but there isn't a single nutrient that will negate the effects of a bad environment.

 

[GrownManHollr]

Well, I have a CAP at my old grow room, and it served well. However, it isn't nearly as versatile. It would only turn on a de-humidifier. There was no humidifier option. Also, it would only turn on a cooling device, not a heater. It did shut off C02 when the fan came on, however....and it did have a photocell.

The new sentinel controller is far more versatile. I like it much better.

Look into getting a portable AC that vents outside. My AC is a better dehumidifier than an AC. Sure, it cools things down just fine, but it really dries out the air! That's the main reason I am able to get my temps and RH dialed in so well.

The AC drops the humidity constantly.....so the swamp cooler has to come on to bring it up, which also lowers the temps a bit. Then, as the temps rise the AC kicks in again and the cycle repeats.

My temps are remarkably stable, as is the RH. Running 50 at night, 55 during the day. There is a 2 point deadband that is programmable by the controller. I could go with a 1 point deadband, but the cooler just turns on and off constantly.

As far as I'm concerned, the more I read about indoor/greenhouse growing, the more convinced I am that environment is the single biggest factor that determines outcome.

Nutes almost don't matter....there are dozens of companies that can supply the plants with what they need....but there isn't a single nutrient that will negate the effects of a bad environment.

Thanks for the feedback Doc! I think that deadband option is what I need (with maybe a 5 or 6 point spread). If both devices (AC and dehumidifier) could be set up to operate within an acceptable range, they wouldn't just run all the time fighting each other to get to their specific temp or RH setting.

I'm able to keep my temps and RH pretty much where I want them with the existing setup, but it's using the brute force method. And my electric bill proves it! I think one of those Sentinel controllers might pay for itself fairly quickly.

You're doing some great stuff there Doc! Thanks for taking the time to share!

 

[Doc Bud]

Thanks for the feedback Doc! I think that deadband option is what I need (with maybe a 5 or 6 point spread). If both devices (AC and dehumidifier) could be set up to operate within an acceptable range, they wouldn't just run all the time fighting each other to get to their specific temp or RH setting.

I'm able to keep my temps and RH pretty much where I want them with the existing setup, but it's using the brute force method. And my electric bill proves it! I think one of those Sentinel controllers might pay for itself fairly quickly.

You're doing some great stuff there Doc! Thanks for taking the time to share!

sounds great!

Today, I'm spending the afternoon and evening at a trim party. Should be fun! The grower is my mentor....35 years experience but he hasn't smoked in 20. He's an addict, and now he's taught me to become addicted......to growing.

 

[placerville]

Thanks for the feedback Doc! I think that deadband option is what I need (with maybe a 5 or 6 point spread). If both devices (AC and dehumidifier) could be set up to operate within an acceptable range, they wouldn't just run all the time fighting each other to get to their specific temp or RH setting.

I'm able to keep my temps and RH pretty much where I want them with the existing setup, but it's using the brute force method. And my electric bill proves it! I think one of those Sentinel controllers might pay for itself fairly quickly.

You're doing some great stuff there Doc! Thanks for taking the time to share!

Just a note about how I have my dehumidifier installed outside my grow room, when it is hot, (I am lucky to have the room and no close neighbors). The back of my dehumidifier is flat so I attached pre-made sheet metal box with a 4" outlet and ran 4" dryer hose up the outside grow room wall into the roof of the grow room. I pull the hot air off the top of the room and exhaust the De-hum outside the room.