SkooterClowns Running in Circles

[bendbender]

hey guys,
Damn, Franki's hUUUUUge!!!

Got some questions for ya...

1. are you using full strength nutes on the cuttings? Ive heard to use 1/2 by some people.

2. when making nute mix, do you balance the PH first then add the nutes or add nutes then balance PH?

3. is it OK to use a 400W HID on the cuttings or should I use CFLs (and what wattage and color {I.E. 6700K} do you recommend? i plan on having as many as 18 cuttings

4. is it OK to transfer the newly rooted cones to just clay pellets or do you think that rockwool & clay is best?

5. 18/6 lights on the cuttings (not 24 hour ) , right?

thanks for the advise guys.

how tall is franki? Id bet she's 50".

bender

 

[SK-Slappy]

Hey bendbender I'll see if I can answer your questions...just remember there are lots of opinions on how to go about this and we just kind of do what works for us (it's usually the easiest way we could come up with ,along with a little clown logic)...for every thing we do there will someone who will say to do it differently....


1. are you using full strength nutes on the cuttings? Ive heard to use 1/2 by some people.

I take my cuttings and I use the same week3 grow mix in the clone machine...(clown logic: they were growing in that mix so why would I want to lower the ppm, also once I get a root it's going back into a week 3 mix. so that's why I do that)

2. when making nute mix, do you balance the PH first then add the nutes or add nutes then balance PH?
Out of habit I Ph my water first to about 5.3 before I do my mix...(clown logic. If I screw up the PH I only lose the vinegar I use to lower it and not all those nutes...I've checked the PH after adding nutes and its never changed...so that is why I do that)

3. is it OK to use a 400W HID on the cuttings or should I use CFLs (and what wattage and color {I.E. 6700K} do you recommend? i plan on having as many as 18 cuttings

I use a CLF 2700K, 68watters 5 of them...(clown logic: we are using the same box and lights we used before the new build for mom's and clones. CFL's tend to be alittle easier on cuttings so it works out)

4. is it OK to transfer the newly rooted cones to just clay pellets or do you think that rockwool & clay is best?

I don't see why not....but again,clown logic says that the new cuttings would benefit from the added support the rock wool gives the delicate roots/stem....we put them it 2"x2" rockwool and into a 4" net cup, then put the expanded clay(hydroton) around the rockwool then a neoprene cover over it

5. 18/6 lights on the cuttings (not 24 hour ) , right?

I like to root the cuttings under 24 hr lights. Once they have roots I switch to 18/6 to grow out...(Clown logic: the mom grows better under 18/6 so I want to get it back to that schedule as soon as possible and the cuttings will be going 18/6 as soon as I can get them to skooter and he puts them in the bloom rooms...we only veg our clones a week, two at MOST as we like to keep our plants short......franki is an anomaly

how tall is franki? Id bet she's 50"

Skooter could better answer that as I haven't seen it in person in a while but my guess is it's close to 4 feet and skooter is not to happy about that as it now requires more work. ie: having to tie it down/ bend it..raise the lights and that kind of stuff.

And so that's how we dozit......

 

[bendbender]

1. are you using full strength nutes on the cuttings? Ive heard to use 1/2 by some people.

I take my cuttings and I use the same week3 grow mix in the clone machine...(clown logic: they were growing in that mix so why would I want to lower the ppm, also once I get a root it's going back into a week 3 mix. so that's why I do that)

2. when making nute mix, do you balance the PH first then add the nutes or add nutes then balance PH?
Out of habit I Ph my water first to about 5.3 before I do my mix...(clown logic. If I screw up the PH I only lose the vinegar I use to lower it and not all those nutes...I've checked the PH after adding nutes and its never changed...so that is why I do that)

QUESTION>>>>have you ever experienced nute lockout at such a low PH? GH says keep it at 5.5 - 6.5... Is this yet another clown secret that may explode on the scene??????


3. is it OK to use a 400W HID on the cuttings or should I use CFLs (and what wattage and color {I.E. 6700K} do you recommend? i plan on having as many as 18 cuttings

I use a CLF 2700K, 68watters 5 of them...(clown logic: we are using the same box and lights we used before the new build for mom's and clones. CFL's tend to be alittle easier on cuttings so it works out)

QUESTION>>>> Does 2700 K give any bad effects for the cuttings? In my readings (and lack of experience) I was under the impression that CFLs should be mixed (6700K & 2700K) . Not to question your methods because Ive seen the massive buds you've grown, but Im wondering if the temp isnt all that important for CFL's.


4. is it OK to transfer the newly rooted cones to just clay pellets or do you think that rockwool & clay is best?

I don't see why not....but again,clown logic says that the new cuttings would benefit from the added support the rock wool gives the delicate roots/stem....we put them it 2"x2" rockwool and into a 4" net cup, then put the expanded clay(hydroton) around the rockwool then a neoprene cover over it

5. 18/6 lights on the cuttings (not 24 hour ) , right?

I like to root the cuttings under 24 hr lights. Once they have roots I switch to 18/6 to grow out...(Clown logic: the mom grows better under 18/6 so I want to get it back to that schedule as soon as possible and the cuttings will be going 18/6 as soon as I can get them to skooter and he puts them in the bloom rooms...we only veg our clones a week, two at MOST as we like to keep our plants short......franki is an anomaly

how tall is franki? Id bet she's 50"

Skooter could better answer that as I haven't seen it in person in a while but my guess is it's close to 4 feet and skooter is not to happy about that as it now requires more work. ie: having to tie it down/ bend it..raise the lights and that kind of stuff.


Thanks again for the great advice.....

Oh ya Ive got more of that clown quote from a movie.... Lets see if anyone can name it;
"Say... what kind of clown are you anyway????"
"The 'Crying on the Inside' Type, I guess..."

Bender

 

[SkooterClowns]

You were closer to guessing Franki's correct height Bender. She is over 5 feet at this point....grrrrrrr

To answer your other 2 questions.
We've never experienced any kind of nute problem what so ever. Lock out or anything else. The beauty of it is that if there ever is any kind of nute problem all you need to do is drain your tub and put in a fresh, properly mixed, solution into play. easy peasy...but no....we've never had a nute lock out problem at the pH levels we use.


As for types of CFLs for seedlings (and all stages of the grow). Our clown logic says that we want a root. That is our ONLY goal when taking cuttings or germinating from seeds. Once we have a root we have never lost a plant (correct me if I'm wrong Slap master). We chose the CFLs we use based on one condition. They were the biggest we could find at our Home Depot store (and we didn't even know they made them that big to begin with). They work for achieving our goal to get a root and we never knew anything about changing types of bulbs or anything else so we used them for the whole grow and haven't looked back.

Another Clown adage...If it ain't broke don't fix it!

We have read about different bulb types and all that stuff but we look at it this way. Exactly how much more bud can we produce by going through all the trouble of changing bulb types during the different stages of the grow? Are we going to get another 1/4 ounce? Maybe 1/2 ounce? We came to the conclusion that the difference is never going to be so great that we are compelled to go through all that trouble just to get a small increase in yield. As for quality...We are VERY pleased with the results in that area as well so we just keep on keepin' on...

Oh and temp is not a problem at all with CFLs in that grow box. Direct, 4" venting of the light box is all we found that was needed to keep things right.


I'm much more long winded that the Slapster...

 

[bendbender]

keeeewl, thanks. theres so much different info out there... gets confusin'.

So basically the only bulb changes you will do is MH for vegging and HPS for flowering...

It is pretty amazing you got 2 1/2 ounces per plant with your CFLs.

so you dont recall the movie?

 

[SkooterClowns]

keeeewl, thanks. theres so much different info out there... gets confusin'.

So basically the only bulb changes you will do is MH for vegging and HPS for flowering...

It is pretty amazing you got 2 1/2 ounces per plant with your CFLs.

so you dont recall the movie?

Well the plan was to change to HPS for flowering but we haven't done it yet. I kinda forgot about doing that.

A brief history of our first (and only other) experience with HID lighting. When we first started growing I was living in the same place I just moved back to. We tried dirt and it did not go well at all...AT ALL! We switched to our current method and started some Northern Lights seeds. We got 2 females and our first hydro grow was under way. We started with MH bulbs and never changed them. The results are shown here:

This is one of the 2 NLs from that crop. The second one was a bit smaller but not a lot. Me, Slappy our other brother and a good buddy of ours smoked these 2 NLs (and the small yield from our disastrous dirt grow) for over 2 years. And we're no light weights when it comes to puffin'!

So you can see with the kind of past success we've had with MH and our tubs we are content on leaving well enough alone and just to keep things simple.

As for 2 1/2 ounces per plant with CFL I have to tell you. No one was more pleased & amazed than Slappy and I. We had read all the stuff about lighting and CFLs and spectrum's etc and let me tell you my simple mind was reeling from confusion. I honestly had more questions when I was done reading than before I started. But luckily our circumstances gave us only one choice. CFLs and nothing else. So we tried to change as little as possible from our first hydro experience and shrunk it down to fit in the cabinet we made. We had "hanging" CFLs and CFLs with hoods and all sorts of things and they just made a huge mess as far as making sure light reached the tops of the plants and oh God I hated that grow.

Making the CFL light box was the key to our successfully growing in that cabinet. We were able to jam 5 HUGE CFLs into that wooden box and vent the heat out of it and BAM...we were rollin' in bud

Now I am back in this place and we are taking what we have learned and experienced from cloning and adding it to the experiences we've had both under HID and CFL and are applying them to our next grows.

About the quote...It sounds familiar but I can't, for the life of me, place it. (and google didn't help me at all...I tried to cheat)

 

[SkooterClowns]

I went to unzip Franki's tent to check on her tonight when the lights came on. I swear as I was rolling up the flap I could hear her saying "FEEEEED ME!"

She is massive and she has only been in flowering since May 14th (3 weeks).

I've added tower fans to each of the tents and have them set to oscillate. You can see it in the corner. Franki is taking close to a full gallon of water each day. The buds are growing up the stalk and a "barber pole" fashion and I am hoping they will all join together nicely to produce some huge buds. With more than half the flowering time left there is plenty of time for some interesting things to happen. This is fun...she is annoying in size and manageability but fun as well.

FYI on average I spend about 10 minutes a day on the care and feeding of these plants. That includes the time it takes to make the mixes and do the tying and cleaning up etc.

The daughters are stretching and threatening to grow out of control as well. I plan on switching the mix this weekend and going to full bloom mix with no grow nutes in an effort to battle their genetics and stop them from growing too tall. I don't think I'll win the battle with them either but I'm gonna go down fighting

 

[bendbender]

thats interesting how you got so much yield without HPS bulbs. I know what you mean about doing the reading...so many different opinions...makes your brain melt.


maybe you should put a chain around the grow tents so they dont break out and kill you in your sleep....

how much do you expect to get out of franki?


OK, hint... the movie had bill murray and gina davis.....

 

[SK-Slappy]

thats interesting how you got so much yield without HPS bulbs. I know what you mean about doing the reading...so many different opinions...makes your brain melt.


maybe you should put a chain around the grow tents so they dont break out and kill you in your sleep....

how much do you expect to get out of franki?


OK, hint... the movie had bill murray and gina davis.....

bendbender, although skooter was right on the money with everything he said he did get one major point wrong ...(what can I say..he's a stoner)

We've only used HPS and that first grow was veg'ed and flowered using the HPS......we have the MH bulbs but didn't use them as it was our first grow and we just wanted "something"....what we got was a whole lotta of something....

As for now we still find no need to use the MH lights as we really do no vegging...we cut and root the clones under CFL and basicly go straight to flower once we got them rooted so HPS it is...

Besides, that would require more work and us clowns are allergic to that...

 

[bendbender]

what ?!?!?? you guys smoke pot?????

well I aint gonna follow no stoner's advice for growing my herb


so from what i gather, you guys veg for a couple weeks or so? what height do you generally want to have when you switch over to flowering?

 

[MrKindBuds]

Hey guys, So i was checking out your recent cfl grow journals and i have to say they were probably the best yielding cfl grows i have ever seen for 2 plants.

I am currently using the same type 68 watt cfl's as you used in those grows and i have been trying to figure out a good way to house them and then i saw your fixture. I really want to emulate that exact fixture that you have made and i get the basic concept of it but i was wondering a few things. What are the dimensions of it, it seems to fit those lights in there just perfect. I can't quite tell from the pictures, did you use glass on the sides also? If so how is that fastened to the fixture? Is that just for more light coverage? and is it just window pane glass, something different or just extra stuff you had laying around?

I'm pretty crafty with my hands, i used to do carpentry so im sure i can do this im just not quite as creative as you guys ha ha. So i don't need step by step instructions or anything maybe just the basics of how you went about putting that together would be awesome if you have the time of course.

Thanks guys, your grows have been an inspiration to me and have absolutely blown my mind what you have done with cfl's and a small space.

 

[SK-Slappy]

MrKindBuds, thanks for stopping by to view our horse and pony show....
(there really aren't going to be any horses or pony's so stop looking for them, stoner)


As for the light box...we just measured how wide and deep our grow box is inside (it is 28"x18", yes it's that small and we got over a 1/4lb out of 2 plants.)

We picked up some porcelain sockets and screwed a bulb in it and measured that,it came out to about 10"x5"

With these numbers we made the light box top 24"x12" out of 15/32 ply...

the front and back are 1/2" x 6" pine and the top is "TOP" screwed to the front and back panels, the sides are open for air...

We then evenly spaced out the porcelain sockets and screwed them to the top by their mounting tab, then wired the whole deal outside, ontop of the box....be were able to fit 5 bulbs this way...if we could have got 6 we would have, we just used as many as we could...


we then got 1/2"x1/2" aluminum angle iron from HD and screwed that to the bottom edge of the front and back panels...then we went to the local hardware store and had them cut us a piece of glass 12"x24" and slid that into the lip we made with the aluminum angle...

we lined the whole insides with mylar using. I believe it's scotch brand "77" spray contact cement...picked up at the local hardware store also...


we ended up cutting a 4" vent hole on top and hooked up our exhaust fan to that to keep things nice and cool...


Hope this helps you come up with a box you can use...check out the link in skooters sig (if you haven't already)"growing in a limited space using cfl's" (or some crap like that) and it shows some good pictures of the box...

any other questions skooter will be glad to answer...

 

[bendbender]

shit.... back to lowes for me!!! LOL

Im gonna build one of these boxes but if you built another one, would you slope the sides to better reflect the light or is it no big deal?

It would definitely complicated the construction (and I know your lazy clowns).

do those lamps put out a lot of heat? Im guessing about half of a 400w HID

thanks for the details guys!

 

[SkooterClowns]

what ?!?!?? you guys smoke pot?????

well I aint gonna follow no stoner's advice for growing my herb


so from what i gather, you guys veg for a couple weeks or so? what height do you generally want to have when you switch over to flowering?

Ahhh...Quick Change...I've never seen it.

I'm with you Bend... It just doesn't make any sense to follow a couple of space cadets. I mean would you follow the advise of Spicolli?

We usually go by the amount of roots under the plant than the height or age of the plants. We don't pay too much attention to the age of the plant because in our, blood shot, eyes the clone is actually the same age as the mother plus the amount of time it took to develop roots on it's own. When it has a nice little mess of roots underneath we go to bloom. It's all about height management! We love a very high bud to leaf/height ratio.

 

[SkooterClowns]

any other questions skooter will be glad to answer...

Not for nothing but don't ask me. I'm only here to clean up after the horse and pony!

 

[SkooterClowns]

shit.... back to lowes for me!!! LOL

Im gonna build one of these boxes but if you built another one, would you slope the sides to better reflect the light or is it no big deal?

It would definitely complicated the construction (and I know your lazy clowns).

do those lamps put out a lot of heat? Im guessing about half of a 400w HID

thanks for the details guys!

There are no sides at all. All the Mylar we put inside the light hood and the Mylar on the sides of the grow box handle all the light distribution we need.

They don't put out a lot of heat compared to HID lighting but they do require venting. After all they are stuffed into a small plastic container.

Lowe's is your friend.

 

[SkooterClowns]

Four weeks into flowering is a bit late to do research on what you're growing but I never claimed to be bright.

So I looked up Crystal again and found that the height of the strain is "medium". That's great for indoor plants (we only grow short and medium). The "gotcha" here is that the Crystal strain is medium in height but is an indoor/outdoor plant! HUH?! WTF?! I guess I never really wanted to see that before. But my God Franki is actually a scary bitch! I am afraid for my personal safety and sleep with a machete by my bed! My dreams are haunted with her coming after me saying "...I wonder what clown tartar tastes like."




Those that have been followin' our escapades may recall that we inherited this strain. It was one of 4 different strains that were given to us in plastic cups (dirt...shudder).

So Slappy and I have made an executive decision and decided to make some changes to our future.

More news on that to come.

 

[SK-Slappy]

shit.... back to lowes for me!!! LOL

Im gonna build one of these boxes but if you built another one, would you slope the sides to better reflect the light or is it no big deal?

Skooter must be sampling the stash again....although there are no sides I believe you mean the boards that make up the front and back of the light box...

I don't see why you couldn't complicate your life and slope the sides if you'd like....hell I say you MUST!.......
But we didn't see a need in our case as the light box is just inches smaller that the whole inside of the grow cabinet...and the light more than covers the whole canopy..

 

[SK-Slappy]

So Slappy and I have made an executive decision and decided to make some changes to our future.

More news on that to come.

crap....I hate when the executive's do that....sounds like this is going to mean more work for the clowns....

I think we might need to burn that bitch down..

 

[SkooterClowns]

I think we might need to burn that bitch down..

Oh I agree! Absolutely! But slowly and in small quantities.