We love you Uncle C
UncleCannabis' Indoor Ganja Grove - Organic Soil - Sea of Green
- Thread starter UncleCannabis
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- #202
UncleCannabis
New Member
santb
Well-Known Member
With @ 310 actual watts of LED I think you'll end up with around 5 to 7 oz's maybe even more depending on the strains and other factors such as skill level, luck, etc... Since your consumption levels are low have you considered planting multiple strains in a planting bed type arrangement instead of individual pots and going 12/12 directly from seed? Growing in this way versus individual pots give you mostly single colas with low per plant yields but you would have multiple strains to choose from depending on the occasion or desired effect. Sativas or sativa heavy hybrids for daytime use, indicas or indica heavy hybrids for late afternoons, evenings, or lazy Sunday veg on the couch watching Simpson rerun kind of days, maybe a high CBD strain or two. No nets or staking are needed using this method either.
You could custom build an open top box out of re-purposed plywood and line it with a tarp or plastic sheeting or maybe even find a cheap plastic tote that would fit neatly within your grow place. Anyways, this is just a suggestion. By no means am I suggesting that this would be "the best" way. I'm sure that you've carefully considered your options and know what will likely work best for your particular needs.
I know what you mean about internet security concerns. I'm in a place where internet privacy protections are on par with the likes of N. Korea and China.
*If THE MAN is watching I'd like to extend my sincere thanks for not busting down my door - yet... - and hauling me off to a place that I'd rather not be.
I didn't realize that I had so many 420mag stars stopping by until reading your comment and letting it sink in for a minute or 2. I was about to disagree with you since I know this is not one of the more popular journals on this site. But your comment made me realize that of the few pals that are frequent visitors most do have mad grow skills and years of knowledge and grow experience. In fact, many of my - or rather "our" pals here are past and current Members of the Month, Nugget of the Month / Year winners, etc. I'm not going to drop names but you know who they are.
All of a sudden I feel special - like the kid that licks windows and eats buggers but still gets to hang out with the cool crowd.
I had considered a "mini SOG" but then thought it mite be a waste of seeds... Now you say it, it's not such a bad idea.. 6 strains at a time would nice.. And 5-7oz not too shabby... You don't think a shared bed would create nutritional problems maybe? Mite be a bit hard to manage, in case they ever need moving...
I sound like I against the shared bed but it mite actually be easier.. Wouldn't need much soil I guess, weight-wise..
Based on what I've read, I'd always figured on at least 2 weeks veg, figuring that mature plants would be healthier flowerers. My six week veg time limit is mostly cos I'm impatient; A 2-4 month veg + 2-3 month flower... Shit I'd be pulling my hair out! Hence the deliberately small box.. Well, it's for stealth, too.
So maybe 3-6 plants, 3 week veg....? Was planning to FIM once at third node if only 2 plants.. Or will they just grow that fast under the Reflector that 3 weeks is too long? It is a smallish footprint.. Should I only use grow switch for seedling and have a lower height? I kinda wanna set the light at 700-800mm, hit both switches and let it go....
Ha Ha there you go! A bunch of newb questions for ya...
the first grow will be 2-3 plants just to see what happens, then go from there.
Box is almost done...
- Thread starter
- #204
UncleCannabis
New Member
For the record - I've never grown cannabis using SOG planting beds like I had mentioned to you.
There are advantages and disadvantages to all methods really.
If you were to go 12/12 straight from seed you could probably fit more than 6 plants within a .4 x .9ish meter planting bed - 8 to 12 maybe...??
The planting bed when full of soil would be heavy. But you could always set the bin in place empty then fill with soil, finish up the grow, then shovel the soil out of the bin and into buckets or something similar that is easy to handle. Or do the no-till as Sue and some others, leave everything as is and drop more seeds in for another round.
It would likely take 2 people to move the planting bed if ever you'd need to move it while full of soil and plants still growing. The bin would also need to be quite rigid and strong so that it doesn't break apart when trying to move it when full of damp soil.
Standard Pots (1) / SOG Planting Bed (0)
I'm a strong proponent of longer veg times. IMHO forcing a plant to flower before it's matured enough just doesn't seem right or natural. I'm no expert but I've found that @ 45 to 70 days or more seems to be ideal assuming that adequate grow space is available. The plant will be mature and her hormones will be firing on all cylinders by this point. She'll be primed and ready to flower and develop to her full potential once the photoperiod is changed. I think forcing flowering earlier than 30 to 45 days likely results in the plant not reaching it's full potential. There's my non-scientific substantiated $0.02 anyways.
To give you some sort of reference regarding final plant size, my seeds for this round were planted on September 11th and I flipped them beginning on October 28th finishing up on the 31st - so I vegged for about 56 days. If I recall correctly all were topped about 2 weeks or so before being transplanted and flipped.
I prefer using CFL or T5 for young seedlings. LED even placed far above the seedlings may be too strong. I'm not sure really. I use CFL's for seedlings, clones, and early veg and only move them under the LED's once they are about 2 to 3 weeks old. Even then I try to gradually transition them by setting the light very high then gradually moving it downward over about a weeks time.
I use my LED with veg and bloom on at all times regardless whether I'm using for veg or flowering. All blue or all red just doesn't seem right...or natural.
Because of your low ceiling height you may be able to just set it and forget or maybe raise and lower pot as needed, but I suggest setting your light up so that you can adjust it as needed to maintain about 24" to 36" distance from the canopy during veg and 18" to 24" during bloom.
Someday I'll learn to give shorter answers.....
IMO there is no right way or wrong way to garden. It's your garden brother. Do it your way. Trust your gut instincts and just run with it. I'm sure that you'll do just fine.
santb
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the input, Unk... You're pretty much confirming what I already assumed; which is good, cos I get most of my research/ideas right here on 420.. None of it is brain surgery of course; at least at the beginners stage anyway... Still not sure about the shared bed.. I had planned on making a few air pots. I'm hoping that they will be efficient enough at root building so as to replace larger plastic pots, therefore saving a bit of space there. That plus shorter veg times will allow me to get away with smaller pots(?). I've seen a few huge plants in little 10 litre pots so it is possible. In that case I guess it would come down to soil and light quality.. And skill..
Something did occur to me last night.. I'm pretty sure I have better than adequate ventilation, but what affect would the fans in the Reflector have on intake in a box my size? The box will essentially be sealed; rubber for the doors, and gap-filler on internal joins (light getting out is the concern, not air getting in)..
I'm hoping that with the light fans sucking air at approx the same rate as the extraction fans (passive intake), could I have too much air in the cab, taking the load off extraction? Extraction will be about 120cfm for the 30cft box, so no probs there; but the light fans are also doing the same through the light. Will that increase the work load of the extraction or ease it? I'm hoping for the latter. I do not want neg pressure in an otherwise sealed timber box.. Or do I?
I'm using 3 120mm PC fans all in a row in a little box I made up; they are wired to a PC fan speed controller powered by variable voltage (3-12V) PSU (AC to DC) I can adjust the extraction fans speed higher, but only up to a point... Thought of all this as I was going to sleep last night, just after I pretty much finished all the ventilation stuff in the box...A lot of stuffing around as I changed the design 3 times!! Air is coming in through the back under a false floor, then up through a gap in the floor (gonna cover with a grill of some sort)..
Thanks for all your help. After literally years of research and questions and nerve-racking waits for seeds, you think you've covered all the bases. The lights fans were something I never allowed for. I suppose I should be happy that I am smart enough to have thought of it in the first place, but not smart enough to have thought of it sooner! Or to solve it! And it's basically done now any way, so....
I'm choosing to think of this as a vent helper until I find out different!
Something did occur to me last night.. I'm pretty sure I have better than adequate ventilation, but what affect would the fans in the Reflector have on intake in a box my size? The box will essentially be sealed; rubber for the doors, and gap-filler on internal joins (light getting out is the concern, not air getting in)..
I'm hoping that with the light fans sucking air at approx the same rate as the extraction fans (passive intake), could I have too much air in the cab, taking the load off extraction? Extraction will be about 120cfm for the 30cft box, so no probs there; but the light fans are also doing the same through the light. Will that increase the work load of the extraction or ease it? I'm hoping for the latter. I do not want neg pressure in an otherwise sealed timber box.. Or do I?
I'm using 3 120mm PC fans all in a row in a little box I made up; they are wired to a PC fan speed controller powered by variable voltage (3-12V) PSU (AC to DC) I can adjust the extraction fans speed higher, but only up to a point... Thought of all this as I was going to sleep last night, just after I pretty much finished all the ventilation stuff in the box...A lot of stuffing around as I changed the design 3 times!! Air is coming in through the back under a false floor, then up through a gap in the floor (gonna cover with a grill of some sort)..
Thanks for all your help. After literally years of research and questions and nerve-racking waits for seeds, you think you've covered all the bases. The lights fans were something I never allowed for. I suppose I should be happy that I am smart enough to have thought of it in the first place, but not smart enough to have thought of it sooner! Or to solve it! And it's basically done now any way, so....
I'm choosing to think of this as a vent helper until I find out different!
santb
Well-Known Member
Every time I hit "post quick reply", I look at the time and all the text.. I'm no typist so all that^ just took me like 45 minutes!!
Quick reply my arse!
Quick reply my arse!
- Thread starter
- #207
UncleCannabis
New Member
Bigger roots = bigger fruits. Hence, smaller pot size = less root mass = less yield. In general this holds true regardless of the pot type. IMHO air pruning type pots will not allow you to reduce pot size without a corresponding reduction in yield.
That being said, I do feel that pots that allow for good air access to the root system and soil microbes, provide root pruning capability, and allow for more even drying of the root ball does result in a healthier and happier plant.
Large plants in small pots may work well if growing hydroponically or if using a fertigation type nutrient feeding program but I think that you'll be continually chasing deficiencies if you try growing large plants with small pots in an organic soil.
The LED fans will not pull air from outside of your box. The LED fans will pull ambient air that is already in your box into the light case, blow it across the heat sink, then extract it back into your box. This continual cool air in/warm air out cycle will eventually heat up the ambient air to the same temp of the heat sink unless the warmed ambient air is replaced with fresh cooler air from outside of your box.
You will NEED to have a dedicated air extraction fan w/ passive air intake. Without this your plants will not make it past the seedling stage before they begin to die off due to heat stress and lack of CO2. The extraction fan will also help to maintain healthy RH levels.
IMHO, creating and consistently maintaining a healthy grow environment is the most critical thing that needs to be addressed with an indoor grow. You can have crappy lighting, substandard soil, and mediocre genetics but may still end up with at least a mediocre grade stash in the end as long as you are able to maintain healthy temps and RH throughout the grow.
An extraction fan is not an optional item or nice to have kind of thing. The best lights that money can buy, a superb soil medium, cup winning genetics - and a cool looking grow box - will result in premature death of your plants if healthy temps and RH cannot be constantly maintained.
That being said, I do feel that pots that allow for good air access to the root system and soil microbes, provide root pruning capability, and allow for more even drying of the root ball does result in a healthier and happier plant.
Large plants in small pots may work well if growing hydroponically or if using a fertigation type nutrient feeding program but I think that you'll be continually chasing deficiencies if you try growing large plants with small pots in an organic soil.
The LED fans will not pull air from outside of your box. The LED fans will pull ambient air that is already in your box into the light case, blow it across the heat sink, then extract it back into your box. This continual cool air in/warm air out cycle will eventually heat up the ambient air to the same temp of the heat sink unless the warmed ambient air is replaced with fresh cooler air from outside of your box.
You will NEED to have a dedicated air extraction fan w/ passive air intake. Without this your plants will not make it past the seedling stage before they begin to die off due to heat stress and lack of CO2. The extraction fan will also help to maintain healthy RH levels.
IMHO, creating and consistently maintaining a healthy grow environment is the most critical thing that needs to be addressed with an indoor grow. You can have crappy lighting, substandard soil, and mediocre genetics but may still end up with at least a mediocre grade stash in the end as long as you are able to maintain healthy temps and RH throughout the grow.
An extraction fan is not an optional item or nice to have kind of thing. The best lights that money can buy, a superb soil medium, cup winning genetics - and a cool looking grow box - will result in premature death of your plants if healthy temps and RH cannot be constantly maintained.
santb
Well-Known Member
Dang I was hoping the air pots mite help reduce pot size.. That's cool. I'll just make slightly bigger ones.
Re extraction; I do have extraction fans; I just assumed that the extraction fans, and the light fans, would combine in suction given air is only coming in from one spot (passive in false floor)...That assumption is based on my complete lack of any HVAC knowledge, and my quite shitty math skills...
I mean, even the light fans have gotta get their air from somewhere... If there were no other fans or holes/oulet in the box, just a passive intake, wouldn't the light fans suck in air 'til the box was full and pressure equalised? They mite be workin hard and wreck the light or themselves once they start to 're-circulate'....
I was assuming that the light would assist with the intake, even just a little bit, making more air available, thus making extraction easier on the extraction fans...
As long as it works; like you say: heat will be the problem here.. I'm almost ready to paint inside the box and when dry, will do a dry run for a day or 2 to monitor temps...
Soon....!
Re extraction; I do have extraction fans; I just assumed that the extraction fans, and the light fans, would combine in suction given air is only coming in from one spot (passive in false floor)...That assumption is based on my complete lack of any HVAC knowledge, and my quite shitty math skills...
I mean, even the light fans have gotta get their air from somewhere... If there were no other fans or holes/oulet in the box, just a passive intake, wouldn't the light fans suck in air 'til the box was full and pressure equalised? They mite be workin hard and wreck the light or themselves once they start to 're-circulate'....
I was assuming that the light would assist with the intake, even just a little bit, making more air available, thus making extraction easier on the extraction fans...
As long as it works; like you say: heat will be the problem here.. I'm almost ready to paint inside the box and when dry, will do a dry run for a day or 2 to monitor temps...
Soon....!
- Thread starter
- #209
UncleCannabis
New Member
The LED cooling fans will not contribute at all in regards to air replacement within your grow space. Those fans will only recycle the ambient air that is already inside of the grow space.
If you had a passive vent opening located low and a vented area located higher within the tent, cooler outside air would very slowly migrate into the tent through the lower vent opening while an equal amount of warmer air from inside of the space would escape through the upper vent. However this natural airflow cooling of the tent would not be adequate to keep temps low enough to keep your girls happy.
In this situation the LED fans still will only recycle the inside air. Any contribution they would make to cooling of your space would be due to the small amount of air turbulence that they would create within the tent which is almost zero.
I think you'd be setting yourself up for failure if you don't include a dedicated extraction fan, and a good quality one at that - if you can afford it.
Just to give you an idea of the importance that I put on having a reliable extraction fan working at all times during a grow - I have spare fans on hand just in case my primary fan fails at anytime during my grow.
Luckily I have not needed to use my spare fans yet but I sleep better at night knowing that I have backup fans and lights always at the ready if needed. I for one would hate to lose an entire grow because of a fan failure and not being able to get a replacement in time to save the day.
Your idea of a trial run with the space empty is something that you should definitely do before planting the first seed.
FYI - Lots of paints and adhesives will give off gasses when freshly applied or during the drying and curing process that are toxic to plants.
If you'll be using any type of paint, silicone, glues or adhesives, etc inside of the grow space you'll need to allow time for any gasses to "off gas" before introducing plants. It would also be a good idea to let the space heat up to assist with the off gassing as heat will usually help to cure paints and adhesives and will accelerate the off gassing. Maybe turn on your lights for a couple of days to heat up the space??
If you had a passive vent opening located low and a vented area located higher within the tent, cooler outside air would very slowly migrate into the tent through the lower vent opening while an equal amount of warmer air from inside of the space would escape through the upper vent. However this natural airflow cooling of the tent would not be adequate to keep temps low enough to keep your girls happy.
In this situation the LED fans still will only recycle the inside air. Any contribution they would make to cooling of your space would be due to the small amount of air turbulence that they would create within the tent which is almost zero.
I think you'd be setting yourself up for failure if you don't include a dedicated extraction fan, and a good quality one at that - if you can afford it.
Just to give you an idea of the importance that I put on having a reliable extraction fan working at all times during a grow - I have spare fans on hand just in case my primary fan fails at anytime during my grow.
Luckily I have not needed to use my spare fans yet but I sleep better at night knowing that I have backup fans and lights always at the ready if needed. I for one would hate to lose an entire grow because of a fan failure and not being able to get a replacement in time to save the day.
Your idea of a trial run with the space empty is something that you should definitely do before planting the first seed.
FYI - Lots of paints and adhesives will give off gasses when freshly applied or during the drying and curing process that are toxic to plants.
If you'll be using any type of paint, silicone, glues or adhesives, etc inside of the grow space you'll need to allow time for any gasses to "off gas" before introducing plants. It would also be a good idea to let the space heat up to assist with the off gassing as heat will usually help to cure paints and adhesives and will accelerate the off gassing. Maybe turn on your lights for a couple of days to heat up the space??
- Thread starter
- #210
UncleCannabis
New Member
LSD Live Resin Hash
Since I'm lucky or unlucky enough to live in a location where winter time temps never drop below 70 degrees F, I put an extra LSD clone that I had in my veg tent out on my patio to bloom. My reason for doing this was to check the strains resistance to pest and disease when grown outdoors. Throughout the grow there was no sign of PM or bud rot even after purposely wetting the buds a couple of times late in flower but she did end up with a few spider mites just as she was finishing up. Overall, she passed the test with flying colors.
Anyways, since I already have lots of stash I decided to make a batch of live resin hash with her. Immediately after chopping her I stripped all of the fan leaves which were then tossed into my compost bin then stripped the buds off of the stems and tossed the buds straight into bubble bags full of ice and water.
When making the batch of bubble I collected only the trichs that were between 160 micron to 45 microns and tossed the rest.
After drying for about a week I then pressed and folded, pressed and folded,......to break up the trich heads and have been allowing it to cure since.
Of course I had to try some even though it's not fully cured yet and man did I get a surprise.
I had a feeling that the LSD strain would make for some really fine hash but I didn't really expect it to be so potent.
This stuff resembles black tar hash, taste like fine charas, and is extremely strong and trippy. It actually causes blurry vision for a few minutes after taking a good puff. The potency level is off the charts!!
As soon as my vision is back to normal I'll be potting up another LSD clone.....
Since I'm lucky or unlucky enough to live in a location where winter time temps never drop below 70 degrees F, I put an extra LSD clone that I had in my veg tent out on my patio to bloom. My reason for doing this was to check the strains resistance to pest and disease when grown outdoors. Throughout the grow there was no sign of PM or bud rot even after purposely wetting the buds a couple of times late in flower but she did end up with a few spider mites just as she was finishing up. Overall, she passed the test with flying colors.
Anyways, since I already have lots of stash I decided to make a batch of live resin hash with her. Immediately after chopping her I stripped all of the fan leaves which were then tossed into my compost bin then stripped the buds off of the stems and tossed the buds straight into bubble bags full of ice and water.
When making the batch of bubble I collected only the trichs that were between 160 micron to 45 microns and tossed the rest.
After drying for about a week I then pressed and folded, pressed and folded,......to break up the trich heads and have been allowing it to cure since.
Of course I had to try some even though it's not fully cured yet and man did I get a surprise.
I had a feeling that the LSD strain would make for some really fine hash but I didn't really expect it to be so potent.
This stuff resembles black tar hash, taste like fine charas, and is extremely strong and trippy. It actually causes blurry vision for a few minutes after taking a good puff. The potency level is off the charts!!
As soon as my vision is back to normal I'll be potting up another LSD clone.....
Uncle Cannabis, that is a thing of beauty. When you get your vision back appreciate the hug. Use your imagination here buckaroo, it's a sweet warm and loving one.
Happy New Year to youHello - again - and Happy New Year to all my 420mag pals.
Finally, someone who may grow more natural and organic than I, basket pots
I bet you are Gluten-free too
Keep em' green friends.
Who is this pretty bud?
Santb,
Consider 3 large airpots/GeoPots, where 2 pots just barely fit in your grow cabinet. Grow 2-4 small plants per pot.
You could clone and veg, or seedling grow and veg the first airpot/Geopot outside your cabinet under a cfl.
35-40 days later, you place the first pot of little girls inside the flowering cabinet - maybe clone them first, and start a second pot of little girls.
35-40 days later, you add the second pot of little girls into the cabinet while the first pot is 35-40 days into flower and start a third pot.
35-40 days later, you harvest the first pot, add the third pot into the cabinet wih the second pot (now 35-40 days into flower) and replant the first pot.
- -
Repeat as desired.
- -
A single light and a small fan for one pot and maybe a daisy cloner outside the cabinet, maybe on a small table with a chair - no need to control for stray light or smell. If you run in a perpetual cycle, this can help you enjoy your grow (all the seedling/training/cloning work happens outsde the cabinet), allows for gentle lighting for seedlings, and maximizes your harvests in the cabinet.
You could also start right away while finishing up your cabinet and letting the paint dry.
I use two fans in my flower room, one high quality fan to extract the air from the room by sucking the air past the lights and outside. replacement air is sucked into the room through cracks in the walls behind panda film (a reflective white, light blocking, plastic fabric.) This fan is on a heat sensor.
I use a second cheap recirculating fan to blow air around inside the room (and a spare for when the recirculating fan fails.)
Thanks for the kind words WC. That means a lot coming from a weaselcracker like yourself.
Don't worry pal, the agony of defeat is always lurking somewhere in the shadows just waiting for the right moment to strike. Stick around a while and you'll see what I mean.
Example -
Tent collapse
Dried on the vine cannabis
See what I mean? LOL!
Okay I just came across your awesome Journal and this "Tent Collapse" picture is my worse nightmare! I have a similar tent but not as big as yours. It's just a small rectangle corner tent. Pretty much the size of one Mars Reflector 144x5 light...but anyway, I wanna go as big as yours some day but I noticed the bars that are suppose to hold up your tent and other light equipment look so skinny. Can you tell me exactly how that happened bro? Did the bar just bend from too much weight? I can definitely see that happening so easily.
I would like to hear that story! What was damaged? Any lights? Any fire?
And that is something that worries me about these tents. What else do you guys do to support all the weight that holds onto these bars? I would like some advice and tips!
/cheers!
PS: Awesome setup man! I wanna do something similar one day!
CajunCelt
New Member
Dang, unsubscribed myself.
Looks like I got some catching up to do.
Looks like I got some catching up to do.
I sure wish they would have a CONFIRM on unsubscribe - it is so easy to hit accidentally on a touch screen
santb
Well-Known Member
Thanks Unk. That at least finishes that: no assistance from the light fans. I was just speculating. But as long as there is no detriment, it's all good. Sealed it all up yesterday and it will be a week before paint (I'm back to work this week), so it will get a good couple weeks to cure/off-gas. I didn't actually think of using the light to help in that process; thanks for that!
Radogast; cheers for the thoughts... I was very close to incorporating a small veg area in the box but space and stealth considerations dictated otherwise. I do have a cfl hood and a couple bulbs; I also won a Mars Hydro Reflector 48x3 that would be perfect for seedlings. I will probably end up with a second small veg box using this light, just in a different location; I'm hoping to build a shed in the coming months and all my misc. gear will end up there with a small workshop. Grow box/s will be moved to there.
OR I have been considering setting up "legit" grow box for strawberries, herbs whatever; I could save some room in there for 1-3 small seedlings, even if it is just to get a start before going to the main box....
I've given myself a few projects to do this year, including a total landscape re-do and demo of my 'downstairs' in prep for renovations (why I need a shed - all our crap needs to go somewhere!), along with lots of other smaller jobs; you know how it is.. I'm afraid any attempt at any sort of perpetual-type set up would be half-assed at best at the moment..
If I can afford a big enough shed, however, it mite be a different story.....
Radogast; cheers for the thoughts... I was very close to incorporating a small veg area in the box but space and stealth considerations dictated otherwise. I do have a cfl hood and a couple bulbs; I also won a Mars Hydro Reflector 48x3 that would be perfect for seedlings. I will probably end up with a second small veg box using this light, just in a different location; I'm hoping to build a shed in the coming months and all my misc. gear will end up there with a small workshop. Grow box/s will be moved to there.
OR I have been considering setting up "legit" grow box for strawberries, herbs whatever; I could save some room in there for 1-3 small seedlings, even if it is just to get a start before going to the main box....
I've given myself a few projects to do this year, including a total landscape re-do and demo of my 'downstairs' in prep for renovations (why I need a shed - all our crap needs to go somewhere!), along with lots of other smaller jobs; you know how it is.. I'm afraid any attempt at any sort of perpetual-type set up would be half-assed at best at the moment..
If I can afford a big enough shed, however, it mite be a different story.....
You should suggest this to the staff. I've done this myself numerous times, falling asleep at the iPad. When you have over a hundred subscriptions it's challenging trying to figure out which one the sleepy finger hit.
You should suggest this to the staff. I've done this myself numerous times, falling asleep at the iPad. When you have over a hundred subscriptions it's challenging trying to figure out which one the sleepy finger hit.
Thanks for the suggestion, I "reported" your post above with the comment
]
Thanks sue
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