Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures & Photos From The Garden - 2012

[thinkerr]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

for the 12-1 method -- this would make a lot of sense if marijuana were a CAM plant because you would take advantage of the store co2 it had then shut the lights off and allowed it to gather more. however marijuana is a C3 plant so i am not sure why that method is effective.

upon reading on C3 plants i found 75% of people's problems are due two main points ---
1. C3 plants cannot grow in hot areas because RuBisCO incorporates more oxygen into RuBP as temperatures increase. This leads to photorespiration, which leads to a net loss of carbon and nitrogen from the plant and can, therefore, limit growth.
2. In dry areas, C3 plants shut their stomata to reduce water loss, but this stops CO2 from entering the leaves and, therefore, reduces the concentration of CO2 in the leaves. (limits growth)

This is why temperature and humidity are vital to a successful grow.

 

[Alaskan1]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

So giving up the Gas Lantern lighting? Any specific reason?

 

[Xlr8]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

for the 12-1 method -- this would make a lot of sense if marijuana were a CAM plant because you would take advantage of the store co2 it had then shut the lights off and allowed it to gather more. however marijuana is a C3 plant so i am not sure why that method is effective.

upon reading on C3 plants i found 75% of people's problems are due two main points ---
1. C3 plants cannot grow in hot areas because RuBisCO incorporates more oxygen into RuBP as temperatures increase. This leads to photorespiration, which leads to a net loss of carbon and nitrogen from the plant and can, therefore, limit growth.
2. In dry areas, C3 plants shut their stomata to reduce water loss, but this stops CO2 from entering the leaves and, therefore, reduces the concentration of CO2 in the leaves. (limits growth)

This is why temperature and humidity are vital to a successful grow.

Yes, Cannabis is a C3 plant, and I don't disagree with what you added. I don't yet feel swayed to abandon my direction, however. I'm by no means an expert on any of this. I just think there is a lot of other processes to consider, and it's possibly more complex than that.

For example, what about mitochondrial respiration?

mitochondrial respiration in plants - Google Search

• Dark (aka Mitochondrial) respiration is responsible for biosynthesis of new structural biomass, uptake of ions, assimilation of Nitrogen and Sulfer into organic compounds, translocation of photosynthate (and more).
  
• Mitochondrial respiration happens all the time, light or dark periods, but primarily during dark periods.
  
• A lot of growth happens during the dark period, and while some call this "stretch" I think that's a misnomer, it's growth involving cell division, which is real growth.

I don't want to come across like I'm trying to be an expert - I'm not! This stuff is somewhat over my head, but my gut tells me from observation, research, and experience that "longer daylight periods" aren't necessarily the be-all, end-all of yield, quality and potency. I've done my best to try to understand the processes involved, but I've seen a ton of myths on this stuff, perpetuated over and over -- I want to make my own conclusions.

Light intensity? Definitely matters.

I also think it's getting to be more generally accepted that some Sativa dom. strains cooperate with flowering better under a light cycle more natural to them, as DJ Short pointed out -- 11/13.

I realize that Ed Rosenthal and many of his contemporaries would disagree with me on some of these points, and I'd encourage everyone else to make their own conclusions and experiment with what works best for them. I have exhausted my knowledge on the subject and then some, but I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and knowledge. It all adds to a better collective understanding.

Again, I might be flat, stupid wrong! I encourage anyone else, don't take my word for it - research it and try for yourself. Again, this is me trying something - not wanting to prove a point that I'm right before I try it.

for adding to the discussion.

 

[Xlr8]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

So giving up the Gas Lantern lighting? Any specific reason?

Hi Alaskan1 -

No, the Gas Lantern Routine, also known as the "12-1" method, is specifically for the vegatative period. For the plants I currently have vegging, I'm still using this and will continue to do so unless I see problems doing so (none yet).

For flowering, I'm stepping aside of accepted tradition/wisdom and using an 11 hours on, 13 hours off (instead of 12 hours on, 12 hours off) for this grow. Part of doing this is that these are all Sativa dominant (I might have stuck with 12/12 for Indica dominant plants).

 

[Xlr8]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

Great post! Thank you!

Thanks Jandre!

Nice bit of training there X congratulations on your clones so easy when you know how and it saves so much time best technique i ever learned in the garden!

Great post on the light schedule and good luck keeping them sativa dom's under control, crack the whip out and tame them girls!

Appreciate that buddy! Last grow, my health got really bad during the first few weeks of bloom, and I was literally unable to keep up with it - didn't even try. The timing, stunk. It was all I could do to check PH and get the reservoir changed once in a while. I'm determined this time around to stay on it if I can.

 

[thinkerr]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

o i'm no expert myself haha. i trust your observations are correct it is just hard to understand why unconventional forms of growing on this site seem to be remarkably successful.

if only scientists could study this plant the way we do and connect all the dots. imagine all of the implications in the horticultural and agricultural industries.

 

[Xlr8]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

o i'm no expert myself haha. i trust your observations are correct it is just hard to understand why unconventional forms of growing on this site seem to be remarkably successful.

if only scientists could study this plant the way we do and connect all the dots. imagine all of the implications in the horticultural and agricultural industries.

Thanks Thinkerr - I like your approach, and appreciate your input. There's a lot of ways to skin a cat, and grow weed, many of them successful. I have a theory on why this site is different, too:

I don't frequent some of the other sites much anymore, because of poor moderation mostly. I see newer members ask intelligent questions, willing to challenge convention, only to be shot down in flames by a million "know it alls", many of which seem to have very little real-world experience (not saying I have a lot -- I don't).

I've seen them beaten into submission over and over again, made to look like idiots because they challenged the notion that, for example, 24/0 must be a better veg cycle because plants get 25% more light exposure than 18/6 (just a common example). Over and over again I see this. The threads turn into flame wars replete with name calling... and add to the confusion.

I feel like this site is well moderated, flame wars aren't permitted, and a more free exchange of ideas results. People try and document new things without fear of being kicked in the 'nads for suggesting something outside of the norm. And, the veteran growers here are mostly patient, kind, still open to new ideas, and take time to debunk many of the "myths" regarding cannabis growing. We have a nice balance of "old hippies" with crazy real world experience, and newer growers willing to experiment.

Just my theory, but you're right, 12-1(GLR) isn't popular on the other forums, for example. There is much in support of it outside of this site, however, but not always easy to find.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

Thanks Thinkerr - I like your approach, and appreciate your input. There's a lot of ways to skin a cat, and grow weed, many of them successful. I have a theory on why this site is different, too:

I don't frequent some of the other sites much anymore, because of poor moderation mostly. I see newer members ask intelligent questions, willing to challenge convention, only to be shot down in flames by a million "know it alls", many of which seem to have very little real-world experience (not saying I have a lot -- I don't).

I've seen them beaten into submission over and over again, made to look like idiots because they challenged the notion that, for example, 24/0 must be a better veg cycle because plants get 25% more light exposure than 18/6 (just a common example). Over and over again I see this. The threads turn into flame wars replete with name calling... and add to the confusion.

I feel like this site is well moderated, flame wars aren't permitted, and a more free exchange of ideas results. People try and document new things without fear of being kicked in the 'nads for suggesting something outside of the norm. And, the veteran growers here are mostly patient, kind, still open to new ideas, and take time to debunk many of the "myths" regarding cannabis growing. We have a nice balance of "old hippies" with crazy real world experience, and newer growers willing to experiment.

Just my theory, but you're right, 12-1(GLR) isn't popular on the other forums, for example. There is much in support of it outside of this site, however, but not always easy to find.

Very well said, Brother!

I'm a big seeker of info, so I've spent plenty of time on other sites but is the ONLY place I've ever registered & posted. One reason for me was seeing how LED grows on other forums were getting ridiculed while growers here were breaking new ground and getting high yields with LED's.

I find 420 a much more "professional" and mature environment, and much more conducive to learning and the exchange of ideas.

As for GLR, I recently switched to it, based on successes I've seen here, and here's my "non-scientific" take on what's happening...

I think that the extended dark period triggers the same set of hormones that are responsible for the "3-week stretch" in flower, but, the interruption of the dark cycle prevents the actual flowering from occurring.

We've all seen how agressive the growth usually is during the first three weeks of flower. I'm seeing the same type of response in my vegging plants using GLR, which I've only been using for about a month or so.

 

[Alaskan1]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

Hi Alaskan1 -

No, the Gas Lantern Routine, also known as the "12-1" method, is specifically for the vegatative period. For the plants I currently have vegging, I'm still using this and will continue to do so unless I see problems doing so (none yet).

For flowering, I'm stepping aside of accepted tradition/wisdom and using an 11 hours on, 13 hours off (instead of 12 hours on, 12 hours off) for this grow. Part of doing this is that these are all Sativa dominant (I might have stuck with 12/12 for Indica dominant plants).

Hey my friend. First of all thanks for the reading material....I hope the test will be multiple choice

On the GLR are you not following the bloom portion of the lighting schedule?

"The diminishing fall schedule begins with an evenly halved light schedule, using 12 hours for the first two weeks to trigger the plant into bloom, and then further reducing the lighting for increasing darkness time by one half hour every week.

The final week of flowering will provide the plants with a mere nine hours of light, with 15 hours of darkness, forcing a resulting final explosive hormonal buildup. This sends the plant into blooming overdrive and produces resin far beyond the normal plant's limits."

 

[thinkerr]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

^alaskan1

i've heard of people leaving their plants in darkness for 3-8 days to build up resin (tricomes) right before harvest.

i think the tricomes are pretty much for sticky traps for pollen from male plants. if this is right it would make sense that the female plant would produce more as the daylight hours decreased because that would mean winter was approaching and the window for producing seeds would be quickly closing. so by turning down the lights you make her kick off her panties and spread her legs in a sense hahah she needs sex.

 

[Mr Smith]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

Subbed. Thank you for the invite.

 

[OG13]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

Hey X, from an "old hippie" plus reps for daring to challenge the accepted. I've learned a bunch since I joined and I get to try it all out. If I try something new out and it doesn't work out, I will def let you (and everyone else) know. I know that 12-1 works, been using it since the mid 80's. I tried it on a guess. My "clients" are using it presently with great success. Unfortunately can't do much w/ photoperiod manipulation due the large number of genetics for the different patients. We are mostly sealed grow room, but do use fresh air during the dark period, and that def helps. I think there is something besides CO2 that our plant needs from the air.....

 

[Xlr8]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

Hey X, from an "old hippie" plus reps for daring to challenge the accepted. I've learned a bunch since I joined and I get to try it all out. If I try something new out and it doesn't work out, I will def let you (and everyone else) know. I know that 12-1 works, been using it since the mid 80's. I tried it on a guess. My "clients" are using it presently with great success. Unfortunately can't do much w/ photoperiod manipulation due the large number of genetics for the different patients. We are mostly sealed grow room, but do use fresh air during the dark period, and that def helps. I think there is something besides CO2 that our plant needs from the air.....

Hi OG!

Thank you for the reps, first of all. I tend to write long posts, so sometimes I wonder if people catch references like "old hippy" LOL. Really glad you weighed in, and I appreciate you reading through all that.

I didn't know you'd been doing 12-1 since then - that's really interesting as I still see so many doubters, and here you have all this real world experience. Thanks again for sharing your experience - +rep back at you for sharing that.

 

[Xlr8]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

Hey my friend. First of all thanks for the reading material....I hope the test will be multiple choice

On the GLR are you not following the bloom portion of the lighting schedule?

"The diminishing fall schedule begins with an evenly halved light schedule, using 12 hours for the first two weeks to trigger the plant into bloom, and then further reducing the lighting for increasing darkness time by one half hour every week.

The final week of flowering will provide the plants with a mere nine hours of light, with 15 hours of darkness, forcing a resulting final explosive hormonal buildup. This sends the plant into blooming overdrive and produces resin far beyond the normal plant's limits."

Oh, I see what you are asking now. Good question. I have always heard it starts at 11 on/13 off and diminishes 15 minutes every 2 weeks, ending typically around 9 on/15 off depending on the strain (is it an 8 week variety, etc.) I am still considering whether to do this, or stick with 11/13 a little longer - and maybe finish 10/14 in the last week or two.

 

[Xlr8]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

Subbed. Thank you for the invite.

Your presence is always welcome and appreciated my friend - really glad you subbed.

 

[Alaskan1]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

the article on GLR just for reference. I'm sure most of you have read it but for those who haven't heres the link.

The Gas Lantern Routine for Growing Cannabis

 

[Xlr8]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

the article on GLR just for reference. I'm sure most of you have read it but for those who haven't heres the link.

The Gas Lantern Routine for Growing Cannabis

That's a great link Alaskan1, thanks for sharing it! It's the first time I've seen the diminishing light schedule that goes with the GLR start at 12 hours though. All of the other articles I've read referred to it starting at 11/13.

Having said that, it's all a guide and success can be had either way, no doubt. Because I'm growing Sativa dominant strains, and trying to coax Sativa characteristics, I feel like 11/13 is the way to start. I may have started at 12/12 with indica dominant strains.

While we're on the topic, here's another good article I read recently on 12-1 technique (GLR). I wasn't sure if linking the article was appropriate to site rules, so I'm including the author's name (he has a growing advice column on a pro-cannabis website).

How to reduce the cost of growing cannabis saving 30-50% on your electricty bill using the 12-1 lighting schedule.
Joseph R. Pietri

The biggest innovator in the history of cannabis in my generation is Reinhard Delp. Not only did he invent and is the holder of the patent for ice water extraction, he has been building flower forcers since 1992. His new solar powered Sun-gate is the leader of the industry. He was the first to feminize seeds and sell them in Europe in the late 90’s. His process was done naturally, without the use of any chemicals.

No one is more copied but seldom matched than Mr. Delp, who to me is the top grower of our generation. The first time he impressed me he showed me 2 plants, planted next to one another, 1 completely covered in powdery mildew, the other completely clean and beautiful. He was developing mildew and mold resistant genetics.

In the late 90’s Reinhard brought back the gas lantern routine that you find in any college grade horticulture book, and applied it to cannabis. Cannabis needs only 13 hours to stay in the vegetative growth stage. The 18-6 lighting schedule in vegetation, actually stress your plants, that never get that much light in one-day outdoors. Cannabis is an outdoor plant. Growing indoors you should copy how it grows outdoors. No Cannabis growing in Afghanistan gets 18 hours of light in growth pattern. Most strains today have some part Indica in their genetic pool. Even equatorial strains don’t get 18 hours of sun a day.

The 12-1 lighting schedule is as follows 12 hours lights on, 5.5 lights off, 1-hour lights on, 5.5 lights off, and repeat schedule. The 1 hour on in between off period fools the plants that stay in vegetative growth state! Your immediate savings are 5 hours in energy costs daily, as well as your bulbs and equipment lasting longer. But how do the plants react to this lighting schedule?

You see immediate growth response from your plants, they are happy from the added rest time. By day 14 the plants tripled in size. The plants are bushy with twice as many bud sites without topping or bending, In fact when you top and stretch your plants out, you get many more bud sites than you would have had under 18-6 using same procedure of topping and stretching plant, your growing bigger and better and faster.

So your saving 5 hours daily in energy costs, as well as your excellerated growth pattern which also saves you time and energy and equipment use.

In the flowering stage, never use 12-12, start your flowering period at 11 hours on 13 hours off. When your are growing outdoors each day you get less and less sun light, you should copy the way the sun acts naturally in your indoor grow. So first 2 weeks of flower you go 11 on 13 off, the next 2 weeks you go down to 10.5 on 13.5 off, next 2 weeks 10 on 14 off, next two weeks 9.5 on 14.5 off and the last weeks of flower you should be at 9 hours on and 15 hours off. You’ll get bigger and better buds by copying the way the sun light works on cannabis outdoors.

Cannabis is an outdoor plant and you should copy the way it grows outdoors indoors. The only thing that 18-6, and then 12-12 lighting schedule's do is make the energy companies rich as well as the people who sell lights and equipment, the more you use the more you spend. 12-1 lighting schedule is a more natural way to grow indoors and you well have the best results you have ever had and save as much as 50% in energy costs.​

 

[Mr Smith]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

GLR or trying to use a more natural light cycle is what I would call a advanced growing light cycle. Its nice to keep things in a more natural environment and there are some benifits but for new growers it can be a hassle or cause problems, especially if the person doing GLR doesn't understand why. The info in the link posted above in Alaskan1's post gives a good description and understanding.
Most indoor growers go 24/0 or 18/6 veg and 12/12 flower because it works and its easier to control and maintain. Without a special timer you have to manually adjust the timer daily or weekly and there is a chance of being human and fucking up the light schedule. I personally don't do GLR, I do 24/0 for veg because its easy for me to work in the garden without worrying about the light schedule. I do 18/6 for veg during the hot months to reduce heat and electrical use. The plant growth rate is about the same weather its 24/0 or 18/6. I nolonger worry about clone burnout because I only keep mother plants for less than one year and I do my best to keep the mums as healthy as possible. A poor or sick mum showing 3 finger leaves will produce clones with low potency buds. I have had buds that looked awesome but would only give me a weak high and that sux so choose clippings where the leaves has 5 fingers or more. 3 finger leaves or less is a sign of a stressed plant.

I do 12/12 for flowering because again its easy for me to maintain. If you have to mess with the light cycle, always maintain the dark cycle and adjust the light's on time. The dark cycle is the trigger. A special hormone builds up up during the dark cycle and the light period disrupts this hormone buildup and this is the plant's internal clock triggering the flower period. Disrupting the dark cycle stresses the plant and can cause the hermy effect.
I have tried to flower on a 18 hour day before. I bought a special timer and used it during the summer to reduce heat and shorten flowering times. 6 hours of light, 12 hours of dark. It brought a 60 day flowering time to 45 days with no hermy effect but the diminished bud size and density made me abandon the project after 1 test run. I prefer premo nugs or no nugs at all.
I have also tried leaving the lights off the last few days of flower. Tried it more than one occasion since I can only harvest on weekends and sometimes my regular job gets in the way. I still can't tell if it helped any with the resin glands so I don't really know if its helpful or not, I just do it if it fits within my schedule and I don't need to waste the light power.
I'm a pretty technical type of guy and have tried a number of ways to increase production and growth. Light cycles for me are pretty much locked in, I concentrate mostly on nute strenghs and cycles, light intensity and mostly environmental conditions. The growing part for me mostly depends on the plants and what they have to tell me like ph issues, how its grows and what the leaves and roots are doing. I make adjustments from there wether they are right or wrong. The best grows are grows with lil to no problems, a grow with problems becomes more like a learning experience. I hate those types of learning experiences so I do what I can to prevent them. Unfortunately I only see my grows 1 to 2 times a week and depend on a friend that is suppose to check on them daily but likes to drop the ball during critical times.
I used to be a terrible grower, I had to learn everything the hard way. I am stupid and stubborn and had to go back to the basics over and over again. The funny part was that I started growing good right from the start of my second grow and filled myself with as much info I could find about growing mj plants but my odd wacky experiments like co2 infusion to the roots or increasing temps during the dark period to name a few kept me from really learning how to read plants correctly then neglecting maintenance and taking shortcuts and cleaning really fucked me. Not using tools like ppm meters and just following directions from the bottle made TDW(Total Dried Weight) numbers stagnant and I couldn't progress. I used to blame my water and water temps but after owning and using rodi filtration and a water chiller I was able to elimenate water as a issue if it ever was and fine tune my growing skills.

Just realized my post is long winded, sorry. I got off work early and smoked a lil too much and before I knew it I was reading then typing away. I already forgot what I originally wanted to post. I think it was important but puff,puff, it went up in smoke. How is everybody today? I am happy, how about you? Wish I could remember have of everything I learned about growing, wish I had a better vocabulary lol, peace.

 

[Alaskan1]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

GLR or trying to use a more natural light cycle is what I would call a advanced growing light cycle. Its nice to keep things in a more natural environment and there are some benifits but for new growers it can be a hassle or cause problems, especially if the person doing GLR doesn't understand why. The info in the link posted above in Alaskan1's post gives a good description and understanding.
Most indoor growers go 24/0 or 18/6 veg and 12/12 flower because it works and its easier to control and maintain. Without a special timer you have to manually adjust the timer daily or weekly and there is a chance of being human and fucking up the light schedule. I personally don't do GLR, I do 24/0 for veg because its easy for me to work in the garden without worrying about the light schedule. I do 18/6 for veg during the hot months to reduce heat and electrical use. The plant growth rate is about the same weather its 24/0 or 18/6. I nolonger worry about clone burnout because I only keep mother plants for less than one year and I do my best to keep the mums as healthy as possible. A poor or sick mum showing 3 finger leaves will produce clones with low potency buds. I have had buds that looked awesome but would only give me a weak high and that sux so choose clippings where the leaves has 5 fingers or more. 3 finger leaves or less is a sign of a stressed plant.

I do 12/12 for flowering because again its easy for me to maintain. If you have to mess with the light cycle, always maintain the dark cycle and adjust the light's on time. The dark cycle is the trigger. A special hormone builds up up during the dark cycle and the light period disrupts this hormone buildup and this is the plant's internal clock triggering the flower period. Disrupting the dark cycle stresses the plant and can cause the hermy effect.
I have tried to flower on a 18 hour day before. I bought a special timer and used it during the summer to reduce heat and shorten flowering times. 6 hours of light, 12 hours of dark. It brought a 60 day flowering time to 45 days with no hermy effect but the diminished bud size and density made me abandon the project after 1 test run. I prefer premo nugs or no nugs at all.
I have also tried leaving the lights off the last few days of flower. Tried it more than one occasion since I can only harvest on weekends and sometimes my regular job gets in the way. I still can't tell if it helped any with the resin glands so I don't really know if its helpful or not, I just do it if it fits within my schedule and I don't need to waste the light power.
I'm a pretty technical type of guy and have tried a number of ways to increase production and growth. Light cycles for me are pretty much locked in, I concentrate mostly on nute strenghs and cycles, light intensity and mostly environmental conditions. The growing part for me mostly depends on the plants and what they have to tell me like ph issues, how its grows and what the leaves and roots are doing. I make adjustments from there wether they are right or wrong. The best grows are grows with lil to no problems, a grow with problems becomes more like a learning experience. I hate those types of learning experiences so I do what I can to prevent them. Unfortunately I only see my grows 1 to 2 times a week and depend on a friend that is suppose to check on them daily but likes to drop the ball during critical times.
I used to be a terrible grower, I had to learn everything the hard way. I am stupid and stubborn and had to go back to the basics over and over again. The funny part was that I started growing good right from the start of my second grow and filled myself with as much info I could find about growing mj plants but my odd wacky experiments like co2 infusion to the roots or increasing temps during the dark period to name a few kept me from really learning how to read plants correctly then neglecting maintenance and taking shortcuts and cleaning really fucked me. Not using tools like ppm meters and just following directions from the bottle made TDW(Total Dried Weight) numbers stagnant and I couldn't progress. I used to blame my water and water temps but after owning and using rodi filtration and a water chiller I was able to elimenate water as a issue if it ever was and fine tune my growing skills.

Just realized my post is long winded, sorry. I got off work early and smoked a lil too much and before I knew it I was reading then typing away. I already forgot what I originally wanted to post. I think it was important but puff,puff, it went up in smoke. How is everybody today? I am happy, how about you? Wish I could remember have of everything I learned about growing, wish I had a better vocabulary lol, peace.

Dude you can ramble on all you like. Everytime I read something of yours I take something away. I have learned alot from your posts the past few days after Xlr8 suggested I read some of your journals.

Some of the best lessons I have learned so far are from the fuck ups I personally make. I think it ingrains it a lil bit harder lol

 

[Mr Smith]

Re: Xlr8's Hydroponic Adventures and Photos from the Garden - 2012

I mastered fucking up during my teenage years and I am still a pro even at 39. Thanks for the kind words.