1st grow White Rhino - cfl / hps - help much appreciated

[sullymonster]

Firstly a big hello to all as this is my first post

decided to finally take the plunge and have a go at a little grow ...

strain - white rhino greenhouse seeds feminized (Afghan, Brazilian and South Indian)

where - 1mx1mx2m progrow tent

soil - soil (organic) van de zwaan house and garden bat special.

nutes bio - canna( rhizotonic / vega / flores ) ....might purchase bio boost but have not decided yet

light 200watt cfl with reflective hood - seedling / veg - 400hps - veg/flower

how long 3 weeks since germination


After germination I placed the jiffy pellets into a propagator. As soon as activity above ground was evident the pots were placed under a 16w 3400k kitchen light on 24/0. Initially the seedlings were 25cm/8" (pic 1) from the light but after looking at a few other threads my seedlings seemed to be growing rather tall. I then moved the seedlings a lot closer to the light -
9cm/3 1/4" (pic 2).

Clearly these kitchen floros where under powered and too far away from the seedlings hence the stretching. I purchased a 200watt cfl and moved my seedlings into the tent where they have been for a week. Although growth has been more rapid problems have started to arise

 

[sullymonster]

just getting to grips with this journal....just typing up week 3 !!

 

[sullymonster]

week 3

seedlings now under a 200watt cfl 6400k and have only been given a light mist of rain water ( 6.7 ph ) when needed.

temp 72-76f day / 67f night

as you can see in the picture that the cfl bulb is extremely heavy and does not lie straight ( unless reflector is adjusted as i have done ) - is this normal ?? as i will not be able to reflect all the available light with the reflector at an angle.

most journals i have read and people i have spoken to suggest that the cfl should be 1-2 inches away from the plant but the 'bible' suggests 12-18 inches away

over the last week i have noticed that my poor little babies have been deteriorating rapidly. im guessing this is leaf burn or a ph issue, but as a newbie i just wanted to check.

TODAY - DAY 19

the 200w cfl was initially 2.5" above the seedlings but as of today i moved it 5". leaves still seem to be curling down away from the light so have moved the light 10" away to risk any further damage. I also had a small 6" fan blowing over the seedlings but have switch it off as it was not an oscillating fan.

today i have also started to use the rhizotonic in a very small dosage.

so what do you guys think this leaf damage is down to ??
- 200watt to powerful for seedlings ( was told otherwise in the grow shop and other forums )

- only checked my rain water ph once - silly i know, but i assumed it would be the same ( can only learn from my mistakes ). checked it today and it was 7.3

or anything else ?? help and input much appreciated as i feel as sad as some of those leaves look at the state of lil'uns

cheers in advance - peace

 

[KingPimp]

Just A couple of points...your not using the Flores yet are you?
im no expert but from experiance ive come acroos this type of leaf damage when over watering and over fertalizing... could be the ph but ive never tested mine once tbh and have always been fine...
them 200w lights hardly give off any heat really and it would tend to be the top leaves burning if it were that....
also yeah them lights are to heavy for them shades which is a bit daft but then hey what can you do...... apart from strap it to the shade or take the bulb out and bend the lamp holder part of the shade round a lil to counter act the drop of the bulb.... or make a formal complaint and maybe they might just make a propper shade lol

 

[KingPimp]

Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver - Pictorial
this may be of some help to you

 

[dgh420]

Get the MH going and put the plants into their final growing medium. They look starved for light ( the jury is still out on CFL lighting for me) and keep your PH at 6.3 if you can. The plants look tired and really stretched from searching for light. All of this should bring them back really quickly. Hope that helps. Best of luck to you too!!

 

[sullymonster]

kingpimp - thanks for the link mate, that will be some useful reading. haven't feed them anything but rainwater, until today that is when i added a 1/4 teaspoon of rhizotonic. it does look like nute burn as the yellowing starts on the tips first

dgh420 - thanks bud i hope they get their mojo back soon! i dont have a MH the bulb i was going to use for veg/flower is a 400watt high pressure sodium, would you still recommend putting the babies under this light ??

was think of returning the 200watt for a 100/125watt and bringing it to a few inches of the tops, then in a few days replant into a 4", back under the lower powered cfl ( just to get used to the light after transplanting ), then onto the hps ??? what do you guys think

 

[sullymonster]

anyone have a view on exchanging the 200w for a lesser powered cfl ?? as i would really like to do it tomorrow.

 

[rc51sport]

keep the 200w if it stays cool enough, put it about 3 inches away if it feels cool enough to hold your hand there, also theyre wanting to go into some pots badly and let them feed off the natural nutes in the soil. they should start looking better and keep them watered till they start wanting more nutes

 

[DroJo]

200w should be fine. But i would keep it about 6 inch away for a seedling...

There's one misconception about cfls, that they generate less heat, that in itself is incorrect.
CFLs actually generate more heat per watt, however they dissepate heat more efficiently because of the spiral & U tube shapes. Also overall wattage is usually atained through several cfls e.g 200w by way of 8 or 9 23 watters. This helps with heat dissepation because the cfls are spread out as apposed to a mh/hps where the light comes from a singular source..

i bought a lil 4inch fan from target and it cost me 4 dollars and i keep it pointed up directly towards my 100w cfls, with this i can get my ladies 2-3 inches from the bulbs, but before that i couldnt get my ladies within 4 inches without them looking sad

 

[sullymonster]

thanks for the tips guys.

today i changed the 200w cfl for a 125w.

about to replant the jiffy cubes into 8" pots. any tips on replanting ?? do you water the soil before you put the jiffy in or after ?? do you need to use any fertilizers ?? as i was planning on just using rain water and then starting them on the nutes in a few days when they have recovered a bit.

 

[Siscokid]

Hey sullymonster, looks like your seedlings do need soil, are those sphagnum peat pucks? I would bury those girls half way so you don't have the leggy plant, she will fall over once it gets top heavy, try putting a small oscillating fan on low and not right on them, that will strengthen them up and the nutes is a no-no for now. I would advise getting them some distilled water or adjust your water to 6.0 and after your 3rd set of true leafs you can start a nute regimen.

 

[happynow]

On ebay there is a seller htgsupply that sells MH lights that work in HPS ballasts for 34.95. It is where I got my lights and they are great. I am growing my first grow as well right now, and you can look at my journal if interested. My opinion would be to:

1) Switch to MH as soon as possible, your "girls" look starved.
2) Get those babies in some soil (don't forget your soil may lower the PH a bit, so adjust your water accordingly.
3) Wait on nutes

Also, and you may want to get a second opinion on this, I would mix a 1/2 teaspoon of epsom salt in with the first watering you give them once they are transplanted. My plants had the same exact look as yours as far as the spotting, texture, color, etc.. It turned out to be mag defecencies, and you would not beleive the turn around that watering once with epsom salts accomplished. Its crazy how they went from looking sick and sad to 3 days later super green and growing fast. I waited until some new growth came in, and then pulled off the sick leaves. Just my two cents.... Keep it growing! I will definately be watching this one......

 

[sullymonster]

cheers fellas for the tips - much appreciated

they have been under the 125w light in 8" pots now for 5 days now and have started looking much healthier.

although today i noticed that the healthiest looking seedlings leaf tips had started to go a brownish/purply color. it looks as if the ph problem is still a showing with this plant. please check out the pictures below, the first was taken yesterday ( showed no signs ) and the rest were taken today. i have been only watering with ph adjusted rainwater. any ideas ??

also im having a great deal of trouble using the ph down solution. the rain water ph is usually 7.2, adding not even half a drop takes it down to 3.4 !! when i pour this water out and try again the ph of the rain water is 6.5 ( i guess from the left over water ). but this is not the best way to get the water ph correct !! what to you guys use to apply the ph solution to the water ??

 

[Siscokid]

Sorry man, I used the GH powder nutes, so I really can't say. Did it come with instructions? You may need to use a syringe or something like that to measure it I'm sure someone with more experience than me can help out.

 

[MI-grower]

Sup bro ur babies are looking healthy!!
Me personally I didn't use any nutes untill the 3rd week. To each their own, my babies are 4 weeks old and look great.

& Love from the Glove


check out my 1st grow if you want to..
My 1st grow

 

[sullymonster]

this picture was taken today and it seems as if the problem is getting worse.
happynow - is this what your mag deficient plants looked like ?? if so will buy some epsom salts tomorrow

 

[gnome grown]

week 3

seedlings now under a 200watt cfl 6400k and have only been given a light mist of rain water ( 6.7 ph ) when needed.

temp 72-76f day / 67f night

as you can see in the picture that the cfl bulb is extremely heavy and does not lie straight ( unless reflector is adjusted as i have done ) - is this normal ?? as i will not be able to reflect all the available light with the reflector at an angle.

most journals i have read and people i have spoken to suggest that the cfl should be 1-2 inches away from the plant but the 'bible' suggests 12-18 inches away

over the last week i have noticed that my poor little babies have been deteriorating rapidly. im guessing this is leaf burn or a ph issue, but as a newbie i just wanted to check.

TODAY - DAY 19

the 200w cfl was initially 2.5" above the seedlings but as of today i moved it 5". leaves still seem to be curling down away from the light so have moved the light 10" away to risk any further damage. I also had a small 6" fan blowing over the seedlings but have switch it off as it was not an oscillating fan.

today i have also started to use the rhizotonic in a very small dosage.

so what do you guys think this leaf damage is down to ??
- 200watt to powerful for seedlings ( was told otherwise in the grow shop and other forums )

- only checked my rain water ph once - silly i know, but i assumed it would be the same ( can only learn from my mistakes ). checked it today and it was 7.3

or anything else ?? help and input much appreciated as i feel as sad as some of those leaves look at the state of lil'uns

cheers in advance - peace

when your leaves look like this, its a sign that your misting/spraying the leaves too much. i would lay off on it for a while, until they start looking healthy again. just dont ever mist flowering plants, encourages mold too easily on the bud sites.

 

[happynow]

Sound advise on the misting. That is pretty much what my mag def looked like, except yours is a little more widespread. Mine was just the bottom leaves. As long as you use a small dosage of epsom salts, it shouldnt hurt them even if it isn't mag def. Epson salt can lock out other nutrients in high quantities though, so I would stick with small dosage (1/2 to full teaspoon per gallon of water). Then water the dirt directly with it (when it is ready for it next watering. Another thing is frequency of water. When I first started growing, I thought that I needed to water them every 1-2 days. The reality seems to be that they drink a different amount all the time. I have started really letting them get pretty dry before next water (sometimes takes 5-6 days) and they seem to really be responding to this. I stick my finger a couple inches down into the soil, and once I cannot detect any moisture in the soil, I give them 1 extra day and then water. Sucks to see sick baby plants. I hope they turn around for you. These plants can take quite a bit of abuse, so I would not be surprised to see them make a full recovery.

 

[sullymonster]

i don't think that it is misting as i never gave the foliage any water, just the growing medium. anyhow i am going to wait until my ph soil tester arrives as i think it is a ph problem. i never checked the soil ph ( doh ) as i thought it would be ok being organic guano soil.