5.4 or 6.2 Which is it?

[felis]

Guys,
We all try and want to have our grow parameters dialed in, for optimum growing conditions, and getting PH dialed in is certainly at the top of my list.

Why the question?
Because I wish to know, is it really that easy, or insignificant [ enough ] to "just" keep the nutrient PH between 5.4 and 6.2? Or, is there an algorithm of sorts to follow, like keeping seedlings at 6.2 and progressively getting more acidic to 5.5 as plants approach ripening?

Confusion.

For example; HOG nutrients says, on the bottle, 5.4 to 5.6 for hydro, and 6.2 to 6.4 for soil. Ok.....sounds about right......but, they lump coco in with soil, and thus recommend a ph of 6.2 to 6.4 for coco? WTF? I understand coco to be more like hydro than soil....with some ph buffering but not nearly as much as with soil. Hummm. So that's HOG confusion.

Canna Coco Nutrients; say 5.5 to 6.2 Ok then. That is a wide variance in ph. Which is it, 5.5 or 6.2?
Yes.......cannabis will still grow in this broad range, but we all know that within this ph range, not all macro and micro nutrients are available, all of the time. Can you see the lock-out or deficiencies developing here?

GH Flora Series Drain to Waste says, 5.5 to 6.5 Hummm. Isn't that helpful?? More of the same confusion.........

So what IS the best ph for coco, from seedlings to ripening stages........assuming that there are no deficiencies or lock-out issues that would require PH adjustment / correction. The idea is to avoid these issues, for all of the growing stages, all of the time.

Thots please?

 

[Emilya Green]

You are thinking of pH as a specific number, when you should be thinking of it as a range. When you adjust to lets say 5.5, as the nutes start being used up, the pH 7 water starts taking over the pH of the container and as fewer and fewer nutes are left in the mix as the plant uses them, the pH begins to rise. It is called the "drift", and your goal is to allow your solution to drift between the low end you water at, to the high end, however far it proceeds up toward 7.0, the pH of the water all by itself, before you water with nutes again and set the pH back down to the low end. With your initial setting of the pH when you water, you can come in at 5.5 and drift upward to 5.9 or so typically, or you can come in at 5.8 and let it drift all the way up to 6.1... pretty much the top end of the pH range in hydro. Depending on your medium, sometimes its best to one time come in low and the next a bit higher, moving around the pH range all the time.... or some mediums like to be set at 5.8 or even higher, working well with just a bit of drift instead of a wide range.

I hope this helps explain the mystery a bit... albeit from a soil gardener. The same thing works up in soil... just in a higher range.

 

[AdaminCO]

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• AdaminCO
• Jan 22, 2020
• ph adjust

Treat coco like you would hydro.
5.8-6.1 and let it drift upwards like Emily says.

 

[Weaselcracker]

It’s not that confusing. For coco keep your ph around 5.8, give or take a couple points.

 

[gr865]

Depending on the style of grow you choose, soil, coco, hydro whatever, the pH is a range.
I grow in Coco/Perlite, I set my pH at 5.8 to 5.9 and let it float till the next cycle. In my case it is set at 5.8 to 5.9 and it floats over the next 24 hrs to 6.0 to 6.4 or so. In flower it, over the 12 hr irrigation cycle up to 5.95 or so.

 

[LandoC]

I’m in coco/perlite also...I start at 5.8 with a reservoir change, and let it drift to 6.0-6.1...very easy to maintain Drain To Waste PH...I don’t get a lot of fluctuating, seems to usually hold steady when it reaches 6.0

 

[NuttyProfessor]

some people use the higher end of ph if treating coco like soil , normally has some dry amendments or worm cast etc , if your feeding the microbes the higher end at 6.4.6.8

if salt based and plain coco and perlite , you want the lower end 5.8 6.4, anywere between these numbers you can drop up and down a point or two ,this is the range they give you


welcome

felis ​

 

[Weaselcracker]

In reality in hydro I normally set my ph to around 5.6, sometimes as low as 5.5 or even 5.4. That’s because (for me anyway) the ph always seems to rise in the pot afterwards. 5.8 is the sweet spot -or best possible compromise. I don’t like my ph going very much higher than 6, so I usually aim for the low side assuming it will swing upwards.

 

[NuttyProfessor]

I agree every one finds their own sweet spot over a few grows ,

 

[felis]

Thanks for the input guys.

So it appears that allowing for ph drift, within a range is what most do. Is it because this seems to be a naturally occurring phenomena [ anyway ] within the res nutes? or.....is it your preference / goal to have the ph change on a daily basis?

I too have noted the ph drift within the res, and like most, start low....5.5 and by the next day it may be up to 6.0 or higher, and it's a combination of just being too lazy to adjust it back down every day, and thinking that 6.0 may benefit Mg and P uptake for a fertigation event or two.

Does your target ph, being the ph that you would "like" the res to remain at, change with the grow cycle? Have you found a difference in anything growth related......flower mass, trichome count, resin production, ripening process, terpene production, lack of anything, etc change with differences in target ph? Any science-based facts supporting this?

Lastly, my bitch:
* IF * the nutrient manufacturers actually want the res PH to drift within their published PH ranges for differing grow media's......then why don't they put it in PRINT on the bottle, or in their nutrient schedules?? It would be very easy to just say........"allow the ph to drift within this PH range". But nope. Either they don't know, or they ain't saying. They remain ambiguous on the PH subject.

And thus........there remain 30,000 guys like me wondering and asking the same questions over and over and over.
" 5.4 or 6.2 Which Is It?"

 

[Emilya Green]

Lastly, my bitch:
* IF * the nutrient manufacturers actually want the res PH to drift within their published PH ranges for differing grow media's......then why don't they put it in PRINT on the bottle, or in their nutrient schedules?? It would be very easy to just say........"allow the ph to drift within this PH range". But nope. Either they don't know, or they ain't saying. They remain ambiguous on the PH subject.

Try it. See if you can set the pH at some value and have it stay there, rock steady. It is the physics of the thing... it has to drift for many reasons. They don't say to let it drift because you have no choice in the matter... and they know that. The key to working with this drift, thereby the nutrients, is to understand that this drift exists, and how to work with it to your advantage. Keep in mind that some nutrients are more mobile at the low end of the range and some are more mobile in the middle and the top of the range and that these systems were put into place to take advantage of the drift so you could get to these nutrients easily.

 

[gr865]

I have noticed that during the early parts of the 5/grow, my pH swing is not near what it is during the latter part of the grow. It stays fairly stable during veg and early flower, set at 5.8 and it may drift to 5.9. In mid to late flower it will drift upwards to 6.0 or so.
Not sure what the cause is for this but it works.

 

[felis]

Of course PH can be maintained at a single specific level. It just requires making a PH adjustment before each fertigation event. A PITA? Yes. Impossible? No.

If PH drift is desired, it should say so on the bottle, on the manufacturers web site or feed schedules.

 

[Emilya Green]

Of course PH can be maintained at a single specific level.

Have you actually tried this? Try holding a bucket of water at a specific pH for an hour... let me know how it goes.

 

[felis]

I have PH-adjusted the reservoir nutrients just before a fertigation event countless times.
It's easy and simple, but still a time consuming detail to accomplish, as already mentioned.

 

[Emilya Green]

I have PH-adjusted the reservoir nutrients just before a fertigation event countless times.
It's easy and simple, but still a time consuming detail to accomplish, as already mentioned.

I guess you got it all handled then, sorry you didn't like my answer.

 

[Weaselcracker]

."allow the ph to drift within this PH range". But nope. Either they don't know, or they ain't saying. They remain ambiguous on the PH subject.

Yes of course they know. It’s 100% perfectly well known that in hydroponics you want to maintain your ph in a range, in this case between around 5.6 and 6.4, but depending of course on the crop you’re growing. If you set up ph controllers for your ten acre hydroponic farm, you won’t set them to maintain ph at one point. You will set low and high parameters to give yourself a range. Ph swings naturally. For a variety of reasons. We use it to our advantage.

If you’re wondering why it doesn’t say all that on the 200ml bottle of potassium chloride that you paid $79 for, on the label next to where it says ‘Super Florablaster Nuclear Bud Hardener Megaplosion’? uhhh.... well probably there just isn’t room on the label, and really -why confuse the poor stoner? already got the $79

Basically- If you want more in depth info read up on commercial hydroponics, not cannabis forum FAQ sections. Most people here aren’t trying too hard to reinvent the wheel, at least not on purpose.

Easiest to just keep your ph in that range and don’t overthink too much. That chart that was posted earlier is over simplified. If your ph starts getting up in the high sixes or sevens you’ll see deficiencies. Otherwise - keep it in the accepted range and don’t worry.

 

[felis]

Thank you weaslecracker.
I'll continue to do as I am, allowing PH to drift.

I have grown the same plant genetics for 3 grows now and have noticed a huge difference in tweeking small, almost insignificant parameters. The plants sure took notice though! With almost unbelievable differences in the end product. I would never have guessed that it was the exact same plant genetics.

I guess I was hoping for more insight and detail on nutrient PH, and how it correlates to possible advantages or disadvantages of "tweeking" it during the various growth stages.

Looking towards the commercial cannabis industry for more detailed info on PH is a good suggestion, thank you. I'll do that.

 

[Weaselcracker]

I was actually thinking commercial hydroponics in general- of which cannabis is only a tiny fraction and often not the greatest example of quality- mostly new companies growing for the government. But whichever.- the info is easily available and should be the same regardless.

 

[NuttyProfessor]

Thankfully, new research published in the xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx has found growers don't always need to hit the exact numbers detailed in most growers forums. According to the investigation, the ideal pH range for growing cannabis is between 5.5 to 6.5. But (and this is an important discovery), the research team also had significant success growing outside this range.

The research team from North Carolina State University tested for pH at several large scale (and successful) commercial operations. They discovered pH levels across the spectrum, and often far outside the suggested range between 6.0 to 6.5. Back in their laboratory, they were able to grow cannabis in a pH range between 5.0 to 7.5, without serious repercussions.

Essentially, cannabis plants aren't so picky about pH as we once thought. :

My last grow i grew at 5.6 almost to the very end in a super soil with dry amendments when i should have been at the higher end and still had nice big fat buds ( no problems at all ) was a test



What is the Ideal pH for Soil?
Typically, you'll see significant variation from online experts about the ideal pH for soil systems. While researching this article, we found one website stating a pH between 6.3 and 6.7, another said 5.5 to 6.5, while still another reputable source claimed 6.0 to 6.8. The study from North Carolina State University determined a more specific range of between 6.2 to 6.7 as the ideal.

There is a lot of opinion on the best pH for growing cannabis in soil. This may be because the soil contains more variables than a soilless substrate, allowing for more room to swing up and down the pH scale.

Why do Coco Coir and soil systems have different pH targets? Soil naturally holds on to more nutrients than a soilless medium like Coco Coir. Therefore the risks of nutrient lock-up aren't as severe for soil-based growers.

The ph doesn't have to be a perfect number every single day let it go up and down or your working against the plant
if your going to worry about ph as much as you are buy an automatic adjuster but you need about £350, when a pen does the same job , hardly worth in