Air pruning pots vs regular pots

[earthsun]

I agree with much of what you say. One can easily go with a part of a full line-up or a mixture of products from different line-ups or go true organic and feed your plants from scratch without any line-ups. Growing with basics is actually more reliable and predictable than using numerous products. One does trial and error and experimenting to find their own sweet spot with nutes and soil.

But when I got down to the part where you mention how you'd rather invest your money in "air-pots" I just wanted to scream.
Air-pots, for the most part, are a scam. I bought a 5 pack of 5.2 gallon Superoots air-pots earlier this year for around 100. I have done three full grows since. Out of the 15 plants grown in those air-pots, NOT ONE had a better root system, thicker branches or produced larger buds than the 9 plants I grew in regular 5 gallon buckets with holes drilled at the bottom.

Air-pots create a different directional patterned root system, not a superior one.

I gave mine to a friend and I now use regular black buckets. I start in 1 gal from germinated seed to 3/4 veg, then into 5 gal from late veg to harvest. I use a little Rhizotonic and a little Humic acid through my grows with the EJ line-up and that's that. No air-pots, no silly multiple transplants, no gimmicks to get a great root mass. Just trial and error, and air-pots were an error.

 

[Be Irie]

Re: A top nutrient study: Which is the best? Produces most?

Smart pots blows the doors off of a bucket.... They do make a different root structure which is what makes them superior to the buckets.... the root mass from smart pots and air pots can support bigger and healthier plants... But hey, we all have our different experience and opinions, and that's what makes this a great place.. What works for some, may not work for others....

 

[Icemud]

Re: A top nutrient study: Which is the best? Produces most?

Smart pots blows the doors off of a bucket.... They do make a different root structure which is what makes them superior to the buckets.... the root mass from smart pots and air pots can support bigger and healthier plants... But hey, we all have our different experience and opinions, and that's what makes this a great place.. What works for some, may not work for others....

This time around I'm using # 3 smartpots vs my last grow which was 3 gallon buckets transplanted to 5 gallon buckets and so far a very big difference with the smartpots. I can barely push my soil moisture probe thru the soil now, very dense root structure vs last time where the roots were thin, less fiberous and much less quantity. I can't wait until harvest so I can take a look at the roots on these babies and really see the difference. So far I prefer the smartpots, the only drawback is that when flooding the top of the soil, during waterings, the smartpots tend to let a lot of water trickle thru the membrane and down the side of the pot...

 

[earthsun]

Re: A top nutrient study: Which is the best? Produces most?

Are we talking about the fabric pots?

If so you'll want to quit using Smart Pots and get yourself some Geo, Gro or Aero Pots, same idea, different design and manufacturer. The Geo, Gro and Aero Pots are cheaper, better quality and have handles. Smart Pots are a rip-off.
They also tend to be wider and shorter than the other fabric pots, and in any type of aerated fabric pot, hell, in any type of container growing marijuana, you want not as wide and taller, because the roots in marijuana tend to grow long rather than wide, and with the taller pot you're able to then have more of a structured mass instead of a loose bushy one.

Please don't attempt to school me on containers for marijuana, I have used them all and these fabric ones are thee first type of containers I used for my first grows back in the early 90s.

My original argument was against the solid air-prune pots, which are over-priced and worthless. I don't mind fabric pots, they suck for indoors though, and the reason most are using them are for invalid reasons.

What we have to remember here is what we are growing. We are growing weed, and most of us are growing weed indoors, not out. Therefore, the type of root patterns or root mass structure is MOOT for plants that are only going to be in a container for 3-4 months. If I was growing trees or 8+ foot MJ plants I'd be growing outside in the ground where the plant could create it's normal root structure that's it's been using since the first MJ plant ever grew on this earth.

You guys are taking this aerated pot re-fad, it has been around since probably the late 70s, too seriously. The SIZE and DEPTH of a container is of more importance than the type. Indoor MJ growing accounts for about 85% of us, maybe 10-15% do outdoors. Indoor plants, even ones like marijuana that require strong root masses to obtain best results, DO NOT need aerated pots for such a short time in a container. If they did myself and millions of others would be using these religiously, myself and millions of others are not!
It is sad to see even some veteran growers pushing this idea as a necessity for indoor grows. I know from first hand that aerated pots, whether solid or fabric, DO NOT dictate how the plant will perform. This is just nonsense. The only MJ plants that become root-bound are ones that have novice growers putting them in too small of containers. An exception is, a new strain that has a unexpected massive root growth, but I can't think of any others.

To each their own I guess. I just hate seeing nonsense being used as fact.

AGAIN.

Fabric and other types of aerated pots are great for LONG-TERM plants, ones that will be in the ground or container for more than 6 months, but the ONLY place this has value in indoor grows is for mother plants. And for myself, I transplant mothers about every 6 months so I don't even use aerated pots for those.

I can talk about this subject no more.

 

[earthsun]

Re: A top nutrient study: Which is the best? Produces most?

The only difference you'll see is the type of mass, not a larger or better one. And since you're using Smart pots instead of the other taller brands of fabric pots, you'll have a shorter bushy mass instead of the healthier longer compact mass.
If you're going to stick with fabric pots for indoor growing, which is silly, at least use the better Gro or Aero brands. Even Geo is a better brand than Smart.

 

[YardDog35]

Re: A top nutrient study: Which is the best? Produces most?

Are we talking about the fabric pots?

If so you'll want to quit using Smart Pots and get yourself some Geo, Gro or Aero Pots, same idea, different design and manufacturer. The Geo, Gro and Aero Pots are cheaper, better quality and have handles. Smart Pots are a rip-off.
They also tend to be wider and shorter than the other fabric pots, and in any type of aerated fabric pot, hell, in any type of container growing marijuana, you want not as wide and taller, because the roots in marijuana tend to grow long rather than wide, and with the taller pot you're able to then have more of a structured mass instead of a loose bushy one.

Please don't attempt to school me on containers for marijuana, I have used them all and these fabric ones are thee first type of containers I used for my first grows back in the early 90s.

My original argument was against the solid air-prune pots, which are over-priced and worthless. I don't mind fabric pots, they suck for indoors though, and the reason most are using them are for invalid reasons.

What we have to remember here is what we are growing. We are growing weed, and most of us are growing weed indoors, not out. Therefore, the type of root patterns or root mass structure is MOOT for plants that are only going to be in a container for 3-4 months. If I was growing trees or 8+ foot MJ plants I'd be growing outside in the ground where the plant could create it's normal root structure that's it's been using since the first MJ plant ever grew on this earth.

You guys are taking this aerated pot re-fad, it has been around since probably the late 70s, too seriously. The SIZE and DEPTH of a container is of more importance than the type. Indoor MJ growing accounts for about 85% of us, maybe 10-15% do outdoors. Indoor plants, even ones like marijuana that require strong root masses to obtain best results, DO NOT need aerated pots for such a short time in a container. If they did myself and millions of others would be using these religiously, myself and millions of others are not!
It is sad to see even some veteran growers pushing this idea as a necessity for indoor grows. I know from first hand that aerated pots, whether solid or fabric, DO NOT dictate how the plant will perform. This is just nonsense. The only MJ plants that become root-bound are ones that have novice growers putting them in too small of containers. An exception is, a new strain that has a unexpected massive root growth, but I can't think of any others.

To each their own I guess. I just hate seeing nonsense being used as fact.

AGAIN.

Fabric and other types of aerated pots are great for LONG-TERM plants, ones that will be in the ground or container for more than 6 months, but the ONLY place this has value in indoor grows is for mother plants. And for myself, I transplant mothers about every 6 months so I don't even use aerated pots for those.

I can talk about this subject no more.

There are a few things you stated I strongly disagree with. First off Smart Pots are as legit as every other container with the same concept. That brings me to my first point. CANNABIS grows most of it roots outwards, no deeper than 6"-10" or so, with some main root growing straight down for a water source. Wider pots work well to grow bushier shorter plants.

CANNABIS is not a weed! It's an annual in most parts of the world. "The type of root mass is moot, if they are only going to be in a container 3-4 months" again I cannot disagree more. That time span is the life of the plant. The root mass could not be more critical.

I'm not trying to start an argument, but some of your statements are flat out false.

 

[YardDog35]

Re: A top nutrient study: Which is the best? Produces most?

I know from experience.

 

[earthsun]

Re: A top nutrient study: Which is the best? Produces most?

OK. I agree. Smart Pots are the same as the other fabric pots with only price, quality and convenience differences, but my overall opinion of them will never change being I have used them already.

My argument wasn't if they were legit or not, or was it? My argument was they are NO BETTER than regular plastic containers.

As for wider is better. Girls like it deep AND wide, but for plants deeper is better because the plant has a tap root that seeks out water. Since water is more plentiful the further down in the soil you go the tap root grows downward quite quickly, creating the proper root structure and design of most cannabis plants. The bigger the root system, the bigger the plant. Depth has more to do with this than width. It's just fact. The roots are going to go almost as wide as the container you use no matter what, but unless you go deep, the majority of your root mass my not reach even 3/4 deep, this is the argument FOR a deeper pot.
A wider shallower pot will create a bushy short root system, a wide but deeper pot will create a just as wide but more long compact root system, and for a 2-3 month life this is what one wants.

A short bushy root system doesn't mean a short bushy plant. lol That's genetics, pruning and/or training.

CANNABIS is not a weed! No shit huh?

The TYPE of root mass IS NOT critical, having root mass in general is. I'm not getting why people aren't getting this simple logic. I'm not saying a deeper and less wide mass is better, I'm saying it's not worse. My original argument was against the idea that these aerated pots, and the hard air-prune pots, DO NOT give a person an advantage or someone growing in regular pots. I've done it, there is no difference. So why on earth would someone pay 50-100 for 5-12 Smart, Aero, or hard air-prune pots when they can just by a regular bucket from .25-3 dollars and get the SAME results.

I'm OK with being wrong, I'm not OK with being called wrong when I'm right.

 

[earthsun]

Re: A top nutrient study: Which is the best? Produces most?

A picture means experience? If I had a picture of every plant I grew I'd have a wall with a bunch of shelves with picture books on them.

Nice looking plant.

But it could of yield a lot more had you just used a gallon or two more soil in a $2 plastic container.

 

[YardDog35]

Re: A top nutrient study: Which is the best? Produces most?

The deeper the container does not mean a bigger yield. Actually if you plant in a container that is too large the yield will be reduced. I realize genetics and pruning/training creates a bushier plant. And yes container shape can shape top growth as well.

Just because you feel you didn't have good results does not mean they do not work. Air pruning creates more roots, plain and simple. If you think more roots is bad, I don't know what to tell you.
Large nurseries have been using this technique for decades and I'm sure they don't like to waste money. $3 more for a pot isn't very much money to get better results at the end lol. Btw you paid too much for your smart pots.

To each their own. As long as there are good results, mission accomplished.

The picture was put in there to show I've had experience with them. Thanks for the backhanded compliment. That was grown 12/12 from seed and I was very happy with the yield!

 

[earthsun]

Re: A top nutrient study: Which is the best? Produces most?

A deeper container ABSOLUTELY helps with obtaining more and larger roots, a larger plant(although this means little for bud production) and larger buds.

Please explain how a larger container would inhibit growth.

It just isn't so. If you're talking about containing root mass through transplants, an example would be starting a seedling in a peat plug, then to 1 gallon, then to 3, then to 5, then to 7 or whatever and so on. Compared to starting a seedling in the final 7 gallon, there would be only a little root mass lost by starting in the largest container, but this is not what I'm referring to if this is your argument against deeper containers. I'm saying the deeper the container, whether it be a 16 oz. cup over a 12 oz, 8" deep 1 gallon over a 6" 1 gallon, a 13" 5 gallon over a 11" 5 gallon, the deeper the better. As most women would say as well.

Only in extremely unique containers does a container dictate the shape growth of a plant.

Again, aerated pots DO NOT create MORE roots, it creates a different pattern of roots. The only extra roots would be the small secondary ones that stop growing after the a main reaches the side, and a third begins in place. This does little for actual root mass.

I know, I used aerated fabric pots many years again, I already mentioned these were being used since the 70s.
Ah, BTW. That price I posted wasn't for fabric aerated pots, it was for the hard plastic air-pruning pots, and I bought them the same week they were first introduced. Superoots air-pruning pots. I did not pay too much for them in the fair market price sense as they are still about 80 for 5 now in 5.2 gallon.

Agree, to each their own. I just don't think fabric or air-pruning pots should be pushed as guaranteed better root masses as this is just not true.

I guess if you're willing to stress your plants out at 12/12 from seed and lose the precious yield, possible potency, and root structure growth that happens in normal veg hours, than you need all the help you can get. You might as well just do auto-flowering seeds if your goal is to not get the full potential from a plant.
If it makes you happy...

 

[YardDog35]

Re: A top nutrient study: Which is the best? Produces most?

A deeper container ABSOLUTELY helps with obtaining more and larger roots, a larger plant(although this means little for bud production) and larger buds.

Please explain how a larger container would inhibit growth.

It just isn't so. If you're talking about containing root mass through transplants, an example would be starting a seedling in a peat plug, then to 1 gallon, then to 3, then to 5, then to 7 or whatever and so on. Compared to starting a seedling in the final 7 gallon, there would be only a little root mass lost by starting in the largest container, but this is not what I'm referring to if this is your argument against deeper containers. I'm saying the deeper the container, whether it be a 16 oz. cup over a 12 oz, 8" deep 1 gallon over a 6" 1 gallon, a 13" 5 gallon over a 11" 5 gallon, the deeper the better. As most women would say as well.

Agree, to each their own. I just don't think fabric or air-pruning pots should be pushed as guaranteed better root masses as this is just not true.

I guess if you're willing to stress your plants out at 12/12 from seed and lose the precious yield, possible potency, and root structure growth that happens in normal veg hours, than you need all the help you can get. You might as well just do auto-flowering seeds if your goal is to not get the full potential from a plant.
If it makes you happy...

You have a bad attitude. I was fine with that until that last little arrogant statement. I get all the help I need from fine folks here at 420 mag! A lot of people grow sativas at 12/12 from seed. DO SOME READING! It actually matches their original environment...go figure. You have no idea of the history of that grow or why I did that way.

And, yes that's exactly what I meant about pot size. But 4-5 gallons is plenty big enough for any indoor plant, almost too big...just my two cents.


You keep doing what you're doing and be ignorant about any other way. The rest of us will stay open minded and grow how we want

 

[TorturedSoul]

Re: A top nutrient study: Which is the best? Produces most?

Lol.

You're both informative (and entertaining). Just remember not to drop into flaming/insulting.

I like deeper pots (for the same size volume) because, although cannabis might not be a true "deep-root" plant, it has certainly seemed (to me) to be more than capable of growing roots that are deep enough for any container that I have used. Outdoors in the biggest container of all might be a different story, as the roots do seem to spread out. But, then again, that might have something to do with the fact that many people plant in the wild and do not really take the time/effort required to dig holes that are at least 3' deep and backfill them with a nice medium that said roots can easily grow through instead of finding it easier to produce a broader - but shallower - root system in what amounts to hard-packed soil (perhaps a dense non-aerated red clay?) that the grower only bothered to dig down a foot or two because, hey, digging a nine-cubic foot hole (3'x3'x3') IS a lot of work when you're planting 75 clones, lol, and so is packing in enough soil amendments to work 75 holes of that size. But I'm just guessing.

Also - and it might just be me, of course - I am pretty sure that, historically, my F:M ratio has in general been better if the initial pots were deeper (and by that I mean at least 6" deep instead of 3"-4"). But that is an average; I have had females that were started in shallow pots/cups and the occasional male that was started in deeper cups/pots.

As always, YMMV.

 

[YardDog35]

Re: A top nutrient study: Which is the best? Produces most?

Thanks for the input TS

I may have went a bit too far on that last post. Maybe a quick response to something just read is not the best thing in all situations. The irony is, I'm using 2 gallon plastic pots this grow, lol.

Anything I can do to entertain! I'll keep it classy!

 

[Icemud]

Really good information here guys!! This is what I love about 420 magazine vs other growing forums....we all have respect for each other here and keep the argument's to a minimal which is why I really like this site!! I've realized that with growing, each person has there own ideal's of what works and what doesn't. I chose to try smartpots because of some suggestion's from some top grower buddies raving about them, they use 200 gallon smart pots on there farms and absolutely love them, so I figured why not...So far it seems to create a much denser fiberous root mass than the plastic pots, but I also have changed a few things in my grow from last time, so It may not be the pots alone creating a bigger root ball....I'll shoot some photo's at harvest of my root ball's to see what we have below the soil...

thanks to all for the info on air pruning

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

The idea behind air pots was to allow more air to & promote a vigorous root system to be hard air pruned to encourage more root growth which lead to greater nutrient up take, ultamately leading to a healthy, faster growing plant which may yield extra %

As for the statement of regarding extra yield increase is yet to be seen & hardly noticable on most plants, yet we must include ideal growing conditions to get the best out of your plant & the various factors which may lead to total yield at the end of the day !

Part of my deciding factor of using air pots myself was that air pots could grow larger/taller plants than a regular pot of same size, their for reducing total soil/medium used = more pots per bag of growing medium = more plants

Air pots also preventing root balling which can lead to stunted growth, lower yield when compared to regular pots.


Most that is just common sense tho...

 

[WillyBudz]

Although I usually grow outdoors or hydro indoors I do grow indoor soil on the side. During my soil grows I use 5 gallon home de - pot buckets. I drill holes in the bottom and all over the sides 3/4 of the way up, I mix in a bag of FFOF and some washed hydroton. Works much better than a regular 5 gallon bucket and it is reusable forever. Why pay for an aero pot when you can make one for $2.00 and some time.


Willyß

 

[Be Irie]

Because your home depot pot doesn't air prune, even with your holes drilled up the side,and many other reasons as stated above... Some of us also don't mind paying a few extra bucks for what we feel is a quality product.... Have you used air or smart pots?

 

[WillyBudz]

I have used smart pots and do like them. That being said, the roots in my buckets, tho not the same as in the smart pots, do not grow the same way as a bucket with holes just in the bottom where you get the roots up against the walls and swirling back into the container making a ball.

2" of hydroton on the bottom, mix enough FFOF and HT(2/3 FFOF = 1 bag 3 gal, and 1/3 HT) to fill to 1" from top. Top 1" HT.

20 1/4 " holes in bottom and approx 150 1/8" holes all the way around the 5 gallon bucket going 3/4 of the way up the sides.

When grow is done take buckets to my outdoor grow area, dump mix thru an old gold sifter and recycle the HT (most of it) and I get some used but still good soil to add to my outdoor area. This is done thru winter so I have a nice start for the outdoor grow in the spring.


Have you ever tried customizing your own grow pot/ Bucket? You may be surprised.

 

[Be Irie]

Yep, drilled holes all the way up the sides, didn't do much for me... Most hard air pots are pleated so the roots actually prune, where as the bucket (even with holes) still ran the roots down the edges... That was just my experience with it.. I just haven't had the root mass with altered or regular buckets as I have had with the smart pots... Willy B, how did your roots compare between the two?