Are my seedlings healthy?

[donpaul.p]

thanks for the advice danklover, the plants really dont look to bad but they have got worse over the last day or 2, its just the wilting im not sure on, if temps where to high the edges of the leaves would be cupping up,

i know leaves wilt due to transplant shock as its just happened to one of my plants, the slight burn at the end of the leaves is likely to be nutrient burn due to possible to high N in the soil, but if it was that bad it would keep getting worse so im thinking the soil is possibly ok and its something else causing the wilting,

do you let the pot get pretty much dry before watering again, the roots need oxygen as much as they need water, so keeping the soil wet will cause root problems and the plants will wilt, so its best to let the pots dry out a bit before you water next, you can check this by filling a pot up with soil and keep it dry so you can compare weight or poke your finger down into the soil a couple of inches and pull it out and see if the soil is damp and sticking to your finger or if its dry, if the top couple of inches are dry then its time to water but if its still wet then let it go another day or 2.

also how big is the pot their in.

if you have not added any nutes then maybe it could be due to this, the leaves look a bit on the light green side, has the plant slowly got a ligher green over the last few days, if so then it may be worth feeding some nutrients but at a very weak mix,

let us know what nutrients your using and it might just be that it could be time for some food, the problem is the soil should be good for 2 or 3 weeks so i wasnt sure if i should say add nutes or not at this stage,

so let us know what nutrients your planning on using and it might be worth feeding a very light veg 1 or seedling stage feed and see how they respond to that,

hopefully we can get some more advice, its just the wilting im unsure of, it could just be lack of nutrients,

 

[Speed]

Im a bit confused :S I dont have 24hours air circulation but i put a fan for 2 - 3 or more hours blowing the tops, also i put bottles with ice next to them for cooling them(i read that somewhere), i didnt add any nutes, also i noticed something, ive found 2 - 3 very very little white butterflies i dont know i just mention it. I dont have bought any new nutes coz u told me that i dont need them for now, the nute ive used is 8-10-12 some ingredients of it Zn, Cu, Mn, Mg, Fe, B, Ca poor to natrium but the last time i used it was like 10 days ago or more and u told me that this nute is for flower and not for veg so i didnt used it again. The last times i watered them i left the pot dry out and i did the thing with the finger, i ve not watered it since 2 - 3 days ago.
The size of the pots is about 3 litres. About the lighter green colour that u say, i dont know the lower leaf sets they seem that have lighter green colour than top leaf sets.

Thanks for the advice danklover, and thanks for 1 more time donpaul!!!

 

[danklover79]

I cut a piece of plywood to fit my space then mounted my reflector and my fans to the plywood. Here is a pic of the fans so you can see what I'm saying sorry it's not rotated. Hope the pic helps.

 

[Speed]

Nice structure, and nice plants! But for me its a bit difficult to do the same coz i dont have much free space, i mean for the plywood. You think i should have 24 hours air circulation and maybe this is the problem?
Guys u think i should water them? Its like 3 days without water and now i dont know if i should water them or let them without water :S The soil looks dry and when i put my finger in it it seems also dry, very very little soil sticks on my finger just dust.

 

[danklover79]

What is the humidity in the space? 60 to 70% is ideal for veg.

 

[danklover79]

Stick your finger in the soil, if it is dry 3 inches down, go ahead and water. You should lift the pots before you water, and after, so you know how heavy they are, if they are still heavy, wait a day and check them again.

 

[Speed]

Yeah it seems dry, ill lift them before and after to see the weight difference. Also about the humidity i dont know, how can i count it?

 

[donpaul.p]

you cant without a humidty tester, you can get cheap alarm clocks of temp gauges that have humidty on them, they do ones you have outside that tell you the weather but they also do small alarm clock type ones, thats all i use, it has 3 round dials, once tells the time, one tells the temp and one tells the humidty, cost me 99p from a 99p store,

if the pots are light then id water them, the leaves should only wilt if its over or under watered, so give it a good water and if its under watered then the leaves will look a lot better in an hour or 2, so see how it looks after a good water, water until you have a small amount of run off, dont pour it fast just a gentle pour until you have a small amount of run off, what i do is have my pots sitting in dishes then when i water i let the run off go into the dish then the soil wicks it back up then after an hour i tip out the water in the dishes and leave it a few days before i water again.

so if its under watered it will recover pretty quick,
now for nutes
for the veg stage you want something that has higher N ratio, growers also have used NPK 4-4-4, which will do but is not ideal, so for veg you need to find something with a higher N and lower P and K, this will help with leaf and stem growth,

if you buy nutes that are not designed for these plants then start at a very weak dose, like 1/5th of the stated dose for your plants then slowly work your way up over a few weeks, the sponsors on this site do some very good nutrients that are designed for these plants and they do give a good feeding schedule, if you look below my post and in my signature you will see a link for nutrients, click on that and it will give you some idea of the kind of nutes you should be using,

so for veg you need something higher in N and lower in P and K, if you go for an all in one feed then it needs to contain micro nutrients as well,

for flower you want something lower in N and higher in P and K, the best would be low N, high P and med to high K for flower ans the P and K help with the flowering side of the growth.

when i first started growing i was using something called baby bio, it was an all in one feed and it done me ok so as long as you use it at a very low dose you will be ok, these plants need very little and its why the sponsors have spent time and money perfecting their products, they know what the plants need and they provide products and feeding schedules from day 1, which you will see if you click on the nutrient info below my post, you will see that you start with a low dose and up the dose as the plants get bigger then you change to a flowering based nutrient for when you change the lights to 12-12.


but for now just water and water well so you have some run off, then you know the pot has been totally watered and it wont need doing for a few days, so that will at least rule out under watering, if the plant looks much better after watering then the soil your using must dry out pretty quick but we can see how the plants look after you water, they usually recover within an hour or 2 of watering if its under watered so lets see how that goes,

with the nutrients id hit that link below in my signature and have a read through that as that will give you a good idea of what you are looking for, i was using blue planet nutrients which came in 4 bottles, one was called grow, micro,bloom and the last was bloom booster, how ever you can get away with just 2 of them which would be the grow and bloom, or i could of went with the 3 which would be grow,micro and bloom but im out of blue planet nutrients in a week or 2 so will need to be looking for something else myself,

at the moment ive picked up a veg feed thats NPK 4-4-4, it says add 22ml per gallon, so i will be using a lot less than that as these plants are weeds and need a lot less than regular plants do, so instead of 22ml per gallon ill start at 5ml per gallon and see how the plants react, then the next feed ill go up to 7ml per gallon and so on until ive found the max the plants can take,

for flower i have not really got anything suitable yet, ive got some potato nutrients in a powder form, NPK is 12-24-36, which is pretty hot nutrients for the plants so doses would have to be reduced a lot to not burn the plants, but if i was using this for flower id need to find something to boost the P which is the 24 part as it needs to be higher than the K part to be a good flowering nutes for these plants,

just have a read through the nutrient info below and you will see what im talking about, plus you may even see something you can pick up yourself to use, but early on in veg you need something higher in N as its what keeps the plants green and helps with leaf and branch production,

theirs plenty of nutrients out their and they dont cost a lot, but if you want something designed for these plants then the sponsors have got it covered and they sell products that are proven to work, off the shelf fruit and veg nutes are a bit hit and miss, their always going to be a bit to much for the plants so you would need to start at a very weak dose at 1 5th of the stated dose early on and ramp it up,

let us know how the plant looks in a couple of hours, chances are it will have picked up and be back to normal, once we got the wilting sorted out we can then look at sorting out the nutrients.

 

[donpaul.p]

you know these ice packs your using, are they touching the pots, you dont want the soil getting to cold its just the air that needs to be cool, but as long as the grow space is open or you have a small fan blowing over the plants then the temps should not be an issue, if the temps where to high the plant would have the edges of the leaves cupping up, so the ice packs are probably not doing much to help at the minute,

as long as the light is not to close, you can check this by putting the back of your hand facing upwards just above the top of the plant, then if its to hot on the back of your hand then its to hot for the plants so this means you need to raise the light until its just warm on the back of your hand, if its to hot for your hand then its the same for the plant, so if its nice and warm like a hot sunny day then its all good,

plus the plant tells you its to hot so you would see this, as long as you got some air moving around you wont have any problems with heat at the moment, ive have no external vents and im running a 400 watt hps, all i do is leave my grow door open about 8inches so it lest the hot air out the top and draws cooler air in at the bottom, if my door is shut then the leaves start to cup up at the ends telling me the plants are trying to lose moisture quicker to cool down, so if you not seeing this on your plants then the temps are ok,

plants will stop growing if temps are to cold, if their to hot the plants will stretch like crazy, so lets get the watering sorted out, give them a good water then check how heavy the pot feels, then a couple of days check the weight and water again if needed.

the temps check with the back of your hand, if its not hot on the back of your hand then dont worry about the temps for now, the plants will tell us when its to hot so lets get them looking ok and try and work out whats best to do with the nutrients,

 

[Speed]

ok i just gave them a strong water, it ran water till pots plate (i mean the dish under the pot). Ok i got a taste about what nutes i need for right now, and what for flower, btw ive heard about the bloom, ive heard its petty good for these plants. Ill try to find something that fits my babies with higher N and lower P and K, and the one ive got right now ill keep it maybe for later. So now we wait to see whats gonna happen after this watering.
Also about the temps i put my hand above the top of the plants and the temps looks ok, i adjusted a bit the height of the lights and its ok now.

 

[danklover79]

If the humidity is low when you get a gauge, humidifiers are usually fairly cheap. You can also get a portable evaporative cooler for about 180 bucks at lowes or home depot. this will bring the temps down, and the humidity is just right for veg. You'll want lower humidity in flower, like 40-50%. The humidifier is the cheaper option, but the cooler is a great investment if you can afford it. Here is a pic of mine, the manufacturer is KUUL AIRE, if you want to google it.

 

[Speed]

Ok ill try to find something like clock with temperature and humidity, coz the evaporative cooler is a bit expensive for 2 planties But it seems cool for bigger grows!

 

[donpaul.p]

ive just had a quick look at some of the sponsors and came across this product, it would be great for the flower stage, ill see what else i can find, prices are pretty cheap for stuff like this but if you want something designed for these plants then you need to spend a bit more, not lots more but id say if its your first time growing then it would be best to go with something that has a schedule from day 1 for these plants,
but this is an idea of the kind of products you can get, this is a dry type feed but liquid feeds are what most growers use,
Pure Granular Bloom 1-5-4, 1/4 lb bag - Access Hydroponic.

lets see how they go after they had this water, if its just a water problem at this stage then they will recover very quick, if ive been out in the day time for 2 or 3 days and get back when the lights go out then i cant water so sometimes when the lights come on i can tell my plants need water as their leaves are wilting down and dont look happy, but i give them a good water and they pick up within an hour or 2 and are back to normal,

see what you can come up with for the nutes, to get the most out of these plants you want a veg stage feed and a flower stage feed,
with the grow,micro,bloom and bloom booster feeds you start off with a low dose of each and add more of one for veg then when you go to glower you add less of the micro and grow and more of the bloom and bloom booster which is not to important to have, so as long as you got a veg and flower stage feed or a grow and a bloom feed then you will do ok,

 

[donpaul.p]

try this link for nutes
FoxFarm Hydroponic Nutrients for Sale for MAXIMUM Grow | Access Hydro
if you look at the 3 products at the bottom of the list their is a liquid grow, liquid bloom and a tiger bloom which i think is the same as bloom booster,
ive not tried that brand of product but i think its in the nutrient info in my signature, so the grow and bloom would be a good start for nutes, their is many on that site so you can compare different products, i used blue planet nutrients and had no problems from seed to harvet but it does come with a great feeding schedule so have a look and see what you can come up with, nutrients dont cost a lot but i guarantee without nutrients you will not produce much, get the right nutrients and they end up paying for themselves, ive used the same bottles for nearly 2 years now, so 1ltr bottles last ages, your only adding between 2 and 20ml per gallon each time you feed, you wont need to mix up a while gallon so i mix up 2ltr which is half a gallon so i just add half the amount it says.

so once you have got some nutrients it will last you a long time, if you only grow 1 or 2 plants at a time then a 1ltr bottle will easily last a year, possibly 2 as you dont feed nutrients every time you water, i feed once then plain water the next feed and sometimes ill go 2 feeds with just plain water on young plants, when they get bigger you will feed more often and water more often depending on pot size,

let us know how the plant looks, im sure it will be looking ok in an hour or 2,

 

[danklover79]

Fox farm nutes are what I use, but you must buy the trio, because the grow big (veg) and the tiger bloom has all the micro nutes. The big bloom is just guano and worm castings, and has no micros. They work really well, but you will have to check ph on the tiger bloom, it gets a little high. You are doing ok so far, just keep it simple, and stay calm, the first grow is a learning process, you will get better.

 

[danklover79]

I actually got the cooler because it was hot as hell, and the coils on my air conditioner were dirty, so we had to do something quick. I cleaned the coils not long after, and it was still hot, like 85-90 F in the heat of the day. We bought a 5,000 BTU window unit, and now we have no worries. It was a bonus that the portable cooler is perfect for veg, and I just have one more girl to chop!

 

[Skybound]

My plant is having similar color troubles. I don't know exactly what it is, but I am confident that it will adjust over time. I used to add General Hydroponics Flora series 3 part nutes @ 25% strength, and for a time there was a growth boom, but that subsided and been having problems ever since. My plant is in FoxFarm Ocean forest mix with added perlite. My plant is bigger in veg than yours is now, but I've been 'experimenting' with it for about 3 months now and it has forgiven my every mistake (which are many). thank God for these guys and gals here on 420, they truly are a Godsend and dedicated to helping us noobs along. Expect that you will make mistakes and forgive yourself immediately. I water my plant with pH correct water, but I have this soil meter that always tells me the soil is a bit too alkaline. I suspect I might have a pH issue cause what I put in, aint necessarily what the pH of the soil really is. I will do some tests tomorrow to try and locate this answer. I suggest you run your fan 24/7 if it's within your ability. I have 3 fans running non stop to manage heat, airflow and odors. Nearly my entire setup is DIY for the budget grower. I suggest you add CO2. It's cheap to make and will help your plants metabolize the elements better and also helps deal with excessive heat. I will add some random pics of things I include in my grow box, all cheaply acquired and functional. I'm a noob too so don't comprehend my views as gospel. I'm learning as I go and as these guys teach me, but most importantly to me, I'm having a lot of fun along the way. here's pics.

Co2 bucket, costs me about $4 to produce for roughly 3 weeks

DIY Carbon filter. Can be built for $25

My first plant. don't know sex or origin? bag seeds, what can ya do?

Temp gauge with humidity $2.50 from Wally's

My grow. I also have 4 clones in a box above this one. they were taken from the little bushy one. The seedlings are in the 2nd hydro I built. they are also bag seeds and were planted as an experiment for another grower here on 420

 

[Skybound]

I hit Post by accident.

My ScrOG net. Cant wait to use it.

Little aeroponic/flood&drain/DWC 2gallon system. 160GPH pump, works great, cheap to build

3ml syringe is a great way to mix small quantities of liquid nutes

I love this clear jug. I used it for my 1gal pot, then cut it and used it again for my 3 gal pot. It's a snack mix jug and is great to hold your pot while watering. Especially when flushing and using a lot of water, a plate wont cut it. Plus you can test the water when done.

6 CFL reflector. Another cheap build, but you need tools.

Sorry for clogging up your thread with possibly useless junk. I don't yet have anything in the way of real answers so I share what I do have.

 

[Speed]

Hello again guys, nothing happened after the watering its just the same. It doesnt seem that watering was the problem. :S Now im more confused. Ive take some more photos. Take a look.

 

[danklover79]

In the 4th pic I see some leaf edge curl, I still think humidity, or temps. When you walk into that room, does it feel hot? If you are uncomfortable, chances are the plants are as well.