Ask Us Anything: Sharing Knowledge 420 Style

[hydroguy27]

dont call hazmat...
ive done some research and i found out that for the brand general Hydroponicswhat exactly they use in their PH up and down solutions...
PH up is mainly Potassium hydroxide, PH down is posphoric acid
when mixed together the base and acid will combine to form a salt and water... the glistening you see after drying out the solution is just salt covering the walls and surfaces

potassium hydroxide + posphoric acid = water + tripottassium posphate

H3PO4 + 3 KOH → K3PO4 + 3 H2O

this equation also shows why you need 3x more Ph UP to neutralise a volume of Ph Down

so in short the crystals you see are mainly salt crystals .... clean with lots of water ... use protection for the hands as either a base or acid residue is also cleaned with alot of water to dilute active ingredients

no need for hazmat

ptero, taking that into consideration bringing in the garden hose from outside, dropping baking soda everywhere as a neutralizer, and then flushing ceiling and walls with a hose and mopping up was probably the best idea then, best that I could think of... I read up on these chemicals too and it seems like they can all be dissolved easily in water, but hosing down the grow room 3-4 times, I can still see traces of the sparkle.

 

[hydroguy27]

did the crystals looked like this ?

these are ice crystals but they are more or less the same in appearance on a surface

no, whats left on the walls looks more like tiny pieces of dust that glisten and shine in the light, and also seem to disappear when moving the light around. Like tiny sparking salt crystals, or really like glitter.

Upon the initial spill however the Ph down had a more white powder around it, and the Ph up had more of the shimmering, but i could be wrong as i quickly shit my pants and picked then up and got them out of the grow room.

 

[Pterostychus]

i c what ye mean ... you did well ... hazmat ... to much attention if ye ask me

 

[hydroguy27]

Checking the msds of the chemicals is really what got me so freaked out, seeing as how dangerous they really are, and how they all look the same ( white crystal).... any one or combination of could have been blown around the room after the solutions dried, but it did help me figure out what to do and stay away from the friends brothers uncles bullshit method that could hurt me. Not surprisingly Ive done alot of research and this has not happened to anyone else. Some guy spilt bleach in his Ph bottle ( cant remember if it up or down) and it sounded like it gave off a toxic fume that killed most of his plants, so at least that didnt happen.

I called and talked to John, one of the managers at general hydroponics and he said I should be fine. I explained the entire sitation, He said something like their ph up and down werent very concentrated and that there have been spills in stores and in shipping and they have been cleaned fine with no problems. I told him about how they spilled together and dried to a shimmering crystal, burnt the fuck out of the counter, and were left for a couple weeks, and then about the fans and the shimmer, and he said it shouldn't be harmful and to just wipe everything down. Even told him how i washed the walls with a garden hose 4-5 times and the shimmer was still there but he assured me that it should not be harmful and after a cleanup of the bottles and the inital spill I should be fine, and there was definately no reason to call chemtrec or a cleanup crew, ( the other number on the msds).

So after washing the walls down, I can still see a noticeable sparkle so im still pretty skeptical. Can't help but say this is all total bullshit. Guess ill just keep washing the walls. I know this leftover chemical from this shit cannot be safe so i still have splash goggles a banada and gloves on, ill let you know how it goes.

 

[Fsanti1226]

Quick question. Is dry kool bloom needed for ripening? Or can I just keep with liquid kool bloom?
Thanks fam!

 

[Pterostychus]

Checking the msds of the chemicals is really what got me so freaked out, seeing as how dangerous they really are, and how they all look the same ( white crystal).... any one or combination of could have been blown around the room after the solutions dried, but it did help me figure out what to do and stay away from the friends brothers uncles bullshit method that could hurt me. Not surprisingly Ive done alot of research and this has not happened to anyone else. Some guy spilt bleach in his Ph bottle ( cant remember if it up or down) and it sounded like it gave off a toxic fume that killed most of his plants, so at least that didnt happen.

I called and talked to John, one of the managers at general hydroponics and he said I should be fine. I explained the entire sitation, He said something like their ph up and down werent very concentrated and that there have been spills in stores and in shipping and they have been cleaned fine with no problems. I told him about how they spilled together and dried to a shimmering crystal, burnt the fuck out of the counter, and were left for a couple weeks, and then about the fans and the shimmer, and he said it shouldn't be harmful and to just wipe everything down. Even told him how i washed the walls with a garden hose 4-5 times and the shimmer was still there but he assured me that it should not be harmful and after a cleanup of the bottles and the inital spill I should be fine, and there was definately no reason to call chemtrec or a cleanup crew, ( the other number on the msds).

So after washing the walls down, I can still see a noticeable sparkle so im still pretty skeptical. Can't help but say this is all total bullshit. Guess ill just keep washing the walls. I know this leftover chemical from this shit cannot be safe so i still have splash goggles a banada and gloves on, ill let you know how it goes.

have you tried a different solvent then water ? alcohol maybe ? sinc"e you say the glistening stays with watercleaning maybe its not soluble in water try rubbing alcohol ...

 

[Pterostychus]

oh and as it seems insoluble in water i wouldnt worry to much ... water doesnt seem to act on it so unless you spill your liquor against the wall and decide to lick it of i wouldnt really worry to much ... maybe it are just light but permanent burns from the vapors or splash when they fell and bursted open

 

[Potheadchick2]

Alright . I need some help here . For a week or so , ive noticed what I believe to be a nitrogen deficiency , upper leaves look a Lil darker green, and my bottom leaves fall off one by one after turning lime green and just kind of wilting off. I just gave a dose of nutes 4 days ago. And a simple just water feed 2 days after and now that she's dry again. She's beginig to lose another node, its the lowest and tinniest bud, but if the problem persist it can be a real issue. Should I up the dose of nutes as I still gave 1/4 dose like I did in the very beginning . I'm using

its what I've used since sprout. ( I've only gave nutes a total of 5 times her entire life. She's never really needed . ) I'm in a area where u can't really find the usual nutes used, so I Need some advice here. Thanks

Upped the nutes when I came home to this .

 

[Fischer]

Hey all I just took a piss test for the state and have been trimming my harvest for the past week. Do you think I will pass or fail!! I do not smoke or eat cannabis I just love to grow. I wash my hands after trimming but don't use gloves and have touched my eyes a handful of times!! What do you all think! Hoping I get someone speaking from experience!

 

[Ttopper710]

Hey all I just took a piss test for the state and have been trimming my harvest for the past week. Do you think I will pass or fail!! I do not smoke or eat cannabis I just love to grow. I wash my hands after trimming but don't use gloves and have touched my eyes a handful of times!! What do you all think! Hoping I get someone speaking from experience!

Drink a bunch of water you'll be fine

 

[hydroguy27]

Watching this scene play out in my head has literally got me in stitches... All the best mate I hope you get it sorted... Some breaking bad stuff goin on in your Grow room .. there's some organic Ph ^ and downs for future adjustments .

haha thanks for the laugh man I needed that in these dark times, The same scene has been running though my mind where jessi and walt scrub the acid of the floor and walls. Scary shit....but i guess its all part of the game... at least I've never got shot in the balls like ricky, but i think i'll get it sorted here soon thanks for the vote of confidence. Realistically im pretty worried about the airboure contamination, because i put quite a few hours in the grow room before even realizing this stuff was knocked over, and maybe im overthinking it but since the initial cleanup of the bottles my lungs have been having random aches. But the mind is a powerful thing and It could just be the stress and overthinking.

But I think I may have figured out the answer to my problem, its one word really. Efflorescence.
This might get a little complicated so bear with me. Efflorescence has alot to do with concrete but also is my golden answer to this mess. Efflorescense is when certain chemicals, mainly hydroxides of potassium (the makeup of Ph up) make their way in a liquid form to the surface of concrete and then dry out to form a coating. When these chemicals come into contact with air, its not good because the longer they are exposed to air the more insoluble in water they become. This mostly happens in concrete when these chemicals make their way to the surface,they dry out, form a nasty film which ruins concrete, and becomes insoluble in water. This stains concrete and becomes a bitch to clean up. So what does that have to do with ph up and down and airbound chemicals? well the main ingredients in pH up are potassium hydroxide and potassium silicate, known chemicals to have efflorescent properties. So the longer the dried crystals are exposed to air the more insoluble in water they became, meaning with time they become almost completely unwilling to dissolve in water. Potassium silica is even known to form glass films when dried out that could easily cut skin. Meaning the drying of these chemicals in ph up is BAD.

So if you have been following along with the misguided adventures of hydroguy you would know I became stumped in my last post. After the Ph up and down both spilled they dried to form a crystal, which was left around to solidify and get blown around in my fans in the air for over 2 weeks A dumb move I know but i found out how to keep my pH perfect so i had no need to go to that side of the grow room. This gave the crystals plenty of time to become insoluble in water due to the chemical reaction with air through efflorescence. The crystals left behind because of the spill shined in the light, and i noticed the rest of the room and equipment also shined. It appeared as if covered in a light glitter, or shiny sand or dirt of extremely small particles. The rest of the room had a shine in the same way, walls and ceiling, leading me to find the crystals blew around the room in the 3 fans I have to cool my hps.

when I cleaned up I flooded the ceiling, walls, and floor, with water to dilute the crystals, as this is the prescribed method in the msds of these chemicals. But i found that some of the chemicals stuck around in a shiny salt like form that appeared like glitter on the walls and ceiling that would not wash off. The more I washed the less of it there was, but after 2 days of washing it was still noticeable to me and became clear it wasn't coming off, and I dont want chemicals on the walls so im getting it the fuck off and out of my house no matter what.This mindset led me to do more research even though I felt like I had read every possible thing about this and the only course of action was to burn the house down. But I found out about efflorescence, which explains why the chemicals wont wash off the walls and they continue to shine.

So the solution to efflorescence is actually quite fitting and i see it as a bit ironic. It is stated that an acid wash is necessary, chemically an acid would neutralize any chemical in Ph up, and then a wash in baking soda, which chemically would neutalize any and all chemicals in ph down. But im sick of chemicals and id rather burn the house down than acid wash it, so im going to use vinegar as my acid. Safe enough. I bought spray bottles at the DG and am going to spray the room down with vinegar, which is also an accepted well cleaner for painters, I had no idea. After this and a quick mop of the walls and ceiling, I will do the same with a baking soda solution out of the spray bottles. This in turn should take care of the shining efflorescence , neutralize any chemical in Ph up, neutralize any chemical in ph down, and since both vinegar and baking soda are household cleaners, my house is going to become very clean. Its almost as if god is bullying me to make my house absolutely spotless, spraying with vinegar and baking soda, and a garden hose, and all this stress was some kind of terrible karma cleansing experience, but who fucking knows right.

This is my take after probably a week of straight research on this fucked up situation and hopefully i help out someone who may have split these chemicals, and also just maybe you guys should check out your grow rooms with flashlights and look for the shimmering crystals from some ph chemicals you might have spilled. No one seemed to think this crystal film was dangerous, not even john, the manager at GH seemed to think it would hurt. but i have to disagree, since a hydroxide and silicate efflorescent film on the walls sounds absolutely fucked. I find it irritating how nothing on efflorescence is mentioned in the msds of ph up and down, since im sure other spills have dried before. bunch of bullshit. Tomorrow I will try again to clean it, this time with vinegar and baking soda. Anyway I'll let you know how it goes.

If this doesn't work im burning the house down.

 

[hydroguy27]

oh and as it seems insoluble in water i wouldnt worry to much ... water doesnt seem to act on it so unless you spill your liquor against the wall and decide to lick it of i wouldnt really worry to much ... maybe it are just light but permanent burns from the vapors or splash when they fell and bursted open

As i cleaned with water, I noticed less and less of the shimmering crystals but i never got them all with water. So the shimmer isnt a burn, although each crystal could have caused microscopic burns because that is their nature. I found the shimmering to be caused by efflorescence, or at least this is my best educated guess but im 99% sure im right. Acid wash and then baking soda to neutralize the acid should work. ptero, just for peace of mind, do you know if the salts formed from potassium hydroxide and carbon dioxide is dangeorus? because im pretty sure thats what is stuck to the walls and ceiling, potassium hydroxide, silicate, and carbonate when mixed with carbon dioxide become insoluble in water, but are the salts produced from this reactions harmful? is there any way to know? regardless im getting them off but ive put this much thought in so far. Acid bath baby.

 

[growguro420]

Who ever brought up my plants being calcium deficient, blesss your heart that seemed to be the case.
Picked up dolomitic lime and I know you can be generous with your micro nutes but I still don't want to over do it.
Any suggestions on how much I should add ?

 

[IamIndica]

Hey guys, I'm at day 43 since flip with what I believe is a GG bagseed from a dispensary bag. Noticed I'm already getting Amber trichs? Would this be considered normal this early into flower ? Or am I getting close to harvest?

It was vegged for 3 months prior to flip and is under a Mars ll 400 and 6 23w Cfls for side lighting, had given no nutes up until a few waterings ago, last given today. Watering about every 4-5 days now

 

[ResinSaurusRex]

Amber = degrading THC or more CBD/couchlock effect.

Most people chop Indica when half cloudy half amber.

 

[IamIndica]

Amber = degrading THC.

Most people chop Indica when half cloudy half amber.

So I should chop? Seems early, switched to 12/12 on June 18! Fooooook! Lol and I just gave them more "Massive", "Finisher", & "liquid W8"
Goddamnit lol

 

[hydroguy27]

maybe a bit odd, but i would just be happy the buds finished so fast, under 7 weeks is very fast, so my guess is that it was a fast floweing strain that was happy with leds and the side lights you gave it. Naturally the more light you give the more energy the plant can put into making buds, so it matured quickly. Plants also appreciate different types of light in combination like you have, I have great results with hps and led combo. Looks like a happy plant to me...with maybe a bit of nutrient burn. I'd chop it soon, within the next few days. Read up on trichome colors and find your preference. You did well

 

[hydroguy27]

So I should chop? Seems early, switched to 12/12 on June 18! Fooooook! Lol and I just gave them more "Massive", "Finisher", & "liquid W8"
Goddamnit lol

I wouldnt worry about it, but if you are...and you also decide you do not want to wait for more amber, just make sure to chop the plant before light on. In the dark cycle of cannabis, they push all the nutrients and salts and all that food into their roots for storage, so if you chop in the dark much of those residual salts should be stored in the roots and away from buds. Most people chop in the dark because of this reason to get a cleaner smoke even after a flush. Or you could give it another week or 2 and watch the buds fatten and lose some thc, but personally I like the cbd, gives you a high that keep your head clear. I like alot of amber personally, really just depends on how im feeling when i chop.

 

[ResinSaurusRex]

So I should chop? Seems early, switched to 12/12 on June 18! Fooooook! Lol and I just gave them more "Massive", "Finisher", & "liquid W8"
Goddamnit lol

Flush her for a few days then chop the half Amber half cloudy. Leave the other buds that aren't done yet. They will fatten up more once the others get chopped. You can have some more or less Amber too. Find your sweet spot on that strain so you know what's perfect for the next grow.

 

[IamIndica]

Well it looks like I'm going to be attempting my first Re-Veg sooner than expected ! Haha thanks a million fellas! Hopefully get some clones and attempt another first ...DWC! Lol ...