Autos in the winter? Outdoors?

[fatbuds420]

well, if you guys read my previous post, someone broke into my house and stole my weed that was about ready to be harvested. and i'm out of weed rn and i'm panicking. i was thinking about planting some white widow auto, and only take it outside in the warmest hours, and take it inside for the night. (i'm from spain so it isn't TOO cold in the winter here) is this even worth trying? i was thinking that during the night i can just put them indoors with a light on. (what's better, led lights or normal lights (the old ones that produce a lot of heat, not sure what the english name is)? i don't wanna buy any special light. i'm trying to do this with the tools i got.

i know growing lights have a lot of watts, and so do normal lights, more watts means more heat, which i guess in my case isn't that bad? i read about people growing under led lights, how? they are so low in wattage. why would anyone use professional growing lights that consume 600w when you can get away with a few watts???

 

[Old Salt]

LEDs are the most efficient lights we have available. The old incandescent lights are very inefficient, converting at most only 10% of the electricity to light. HID lights convert about 30% to light, and LEDs about 60%.

The Mars Hydro TS-1000 draws 150W covering 60cm X 60cm in flower, and the Mars Hydro SP-150 draws 140W and covers 45cm X 90cm in flower. Either of these lights will let you grow a few plants. You can go with bigger lights if you need to cover a larger area.

If you start a few plants, try one with your indoor/outdoor routine to see if it will work in your area. It may work for you.

 

[fatbuds420]

LEDs are the most efficient lights we have available. The old incandescent lights are very inefficient, converting at most only 10% of the electricity to light. HID lights convert about 30% to light, and LEDs about 60%.

The Mars Hydro TS-1000 draws 150W covering 60cm X 60cm in flower, and the Mars Hydro SP-150 draws 140W and covers 45cm X 90cm in flower. Either of these lights will let you grow a few plants. You can go with bigger lights if you need to cover a larger area.

If you start a few plants, try one with your indoor/outdoor routine to see if it will work in your area. It may work for you.

Autos don't need dark periods right? I'm not planning to use a tend or anything, is that ok?

 

[fatbuds420]

What do you think about this?

 

[Old Salt]

I don't grow autoflowers, but what I've read indicates they don't need a dark period. @Pennywise can let us know for sure.

That's a very low price for 50W LEDs. Do they draw 50W from the wall, or are they 50W equivalents? You'll need about 35W / sq ft or 350W/ sq meter from the wall for your plants.

 

[Pennywise]

I would give at least 4 hours of dark. I normally run autos 18/6 the same as my photos in veg. Certain biological functions occur in the dark period. Also plants only use X amount of light per day then shut down anyway so i consider anything over 20 hours a waste of electricity.

 

[fatbuds420]

I don't grow autoflowers, but what I've read indicates they don't need a dark period. @Pennywise can let us know for sure.

That's a very low price for 50W LEDs. Do they draw 50W from the wall, or are they 50W equivalents? You'll need about 35W / sq ft or 350W/ sq meter from the wall for your plants.

50 from the wall

 

[FelipeBlu]

Sorry to contradict Penny, but the Autos I’ve grown were all under 24 hours of light. There may be some strain-dependent traits, but mine did very well (2-3 oz each).

When cannabis is flowering, it needs a lot of light (DLI >30 - look up Daily Light Integral). Depending on the intensity that you can provide (look up PPFD), you may need to give them as many hours as possible. The advantage of Autos is that you can give them 24 hours if needed.

 

[Old Salt]

50 from the wall

They should be at least OK then. At that price I'd try one and then grab a few. They'd probably be good for seedlings, veg, and side lights.

 

[Pennywise]

Give them a go at 24-0 see how they fair.

 

[fatbuds420]

They should be at least OK then. At that price I'd try one and then grab a few. They'd probably be good for seedlings, veg, and side lights.

I was thinking about keeping them outside until late October, then durint november and dicember bring them. In for the night and use that 50w light + a few reular LED, im not going for a crazy crop, just enough to get me though the winter.

 

[Old Salt]

I was thinking about keeping them outside until late October, then durint november and dicember bring them. In for the night and use that 50w light + a few reular LED, im not going for a crazy crop, just enough to get me though the winter.

Hopefully that will be enough.

 

[FelipeBlu]

You said you are in Spain? How many hours of daylight do you get in October? Autos need a good start since they have a limited veg period. Your yield will be severely affected if they don’t get enough light. You may end up with stunted little budcicles, with less than 10 grams dried.
You should really consider getting a good light. Growing Autos outside is really only practical in the summer.

BTW, has your security situation improved? If not, what’s the point?

 

[TorturedSoul]

Give them a go at 24-0 see how they fair.

Or better yet, do three sets, one at 18:6, one at 20:4, and one at 24:0 to see which set is more productive, like that guy who did so a couple years ago and determined that the highest yields were achieved on a 20:4 light schedule.

 

[Pennywise]

That would work well.

 

[FelipeBlu]

Ok guys, no need to buy 3 tents and lights - previous scientific research already tells us that one way that plants are categorized is by the way they gather and handle carbon dioxide.

Cannabis is a C3 plant (look it up). It uses the CO2 it gathers during the light period, when it is photosynthesizing. Many C3 plants, including cannabis, do not need a rest period. They continue to photosynthesize as long as they are receiving light.

The plant's photosynthetic rate determines its growth rate because the sugars are used by the plant to build tissue and for energy. Cannabis under continuous light will grow 33% faster than the same plants on an 18-6 light regime.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I thought that it had been determined that cannabis could function as either a C3 or a C4 plant (er... look it up ) or, technically speaking, was a C4 plant that (like some other C4 plants), was capable of functioning as a C3 one when circumstances required it.

Which, if true... fits. Cannabis is capable of processing a great deal of light-energy (C4 trait), can do so in high temperature conditions when many C3 plants temporarily "shut down,"(*) (C4 trait), and the amount of light-energy it can process is even higher when both temperature and CO₂ levels increase beyond the "norm," which also seems to be a C4 trait.

Personally, I don't know. There have been articles published which show the plant can function as a C3 plant, and there have been articles published showing that it can function as a C4. But the latter does not automatically mean the former is invalid because, again, being able to function as a C3 plant is not exactly unheard of... for a C4 plant.

And then there's CAM - a specific type of C4 designation. I don't remember anything about that other than the three initials .

(*)Although cannabis will also do this, if the level of light-energy and/or CO₂ is not high enough.

 

[Pennywise]

It can function as a C3 but I’m not convinced it should be grown that way.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I read quite a bit about it, but it's been a number of years. Therefore, not only might the results of the studies have been misinterpreted by their respective authors, there's a chance I've misremembered some of them, lol.

And it obviously doesn't harm the plants to not have a night cycle. They just don't appear to be (quite) as efficient. From what (I can remember of what) I read in experiments by growers of autoflowering cannabis plants, specifically - which allowed the growers to maintain the same light cycle from seed to harvest - decreasing the dark time, and thus increasing the amount of light energy, did increase yield. But there was a point of diminishing returns, so to speak, after which the increase in yield was no longer linear. And there was a point beyond that where it actually dropped off slightly.

Again, slightly. No big deal, really. Only... Those extra hours of light generally cost the gardener money each month, lol, so if they're not only not a benefit, but also a slight detriment...

And these were static light:dark schedules. In other words, there was no ability to determine whether more light hours during a certain part of the plant's life might have been beneficial while the same "more" light hours during another part was detrimental enough to cause the overall decrease in yield. In other words... They didn't show that running >20 hours during the vegetative growth phase ONLY (or, alternatively, during the flowering phase ONLY) wouldn't have been a good thing.

If it were cows instead of cannabis, lol, the government would probably have been willing to dispense a $58,000 grant for a long-term study so that the experimenters could have tried 50 different light/dark schedules. But it was just a grower who got curious as to whether spending the money for the extra hours of light was worth it, and another grower a year or so later (IIRC) who wondered if the first grower's results were repeatable. Both growers, one assumes, were at least as interested in getting a harvest as they were in getting data from their experiments.

So... Who knows, lol? If you're happy with your light schedule (whatever it happens to be) and your yields (ditto), and your plants are obviously healthy, then... <SHRUGS>.

 

[FelipeBlu]

Hey TS!

All good information on C3/C4/CAM (love that you are scientifically-inclined like me! ), but the bottom line is DLI.

From my experience, it is possible to get fairly good veg growth with even just 150W of CFLs or a 100W QB (~15 to 20 DLI at 24 hours), but much better (faster) growth with ~30 DLI. When it comes to Autos, you definitely want faster growth!

For flowering, you can get acceptable buds with 25-30 DLI, but about twice the yield and density with 40-50 DLI.

If you have enough intensity (PPFD) and can get these DLI with just 16 hours, go for it! But your yield/quality will likely be less if you can only get 15-20 DLI by restricting yourself to 18 hours with less light.

In my opinion (and experience), the main advantage of Autos is that you have up to 24 hours to get the necessary DLI.