Black African Magic

[Joe Brewster]

Well, that's impressive, getting an auto clone to flower out well.

I would advise against topping any autos that show signs of sex before 4 weeks

 

[GPCannabis]

Hope the holidays have treated everyone well.

The plants are still growing but I am struggling finding the balance with water between the two large plants and the smaller/youngest BAM plants.

The small plants I can spray lightly, water every other day or so, just watch for the leaves to start to droop.

The bigger/older plants are sucking up water at extreme rates. I will feel like I drench them, 6 hrs into light the plants are hanging straight down.

Between the two, the larger plants are distorting my perception when watering the small, I have accidentally overwatered my BAM plants. I caught it and stopped…but it still happened I now water small first, then large.

Would live tips on how often to water and what techniques you all use as your plants starts to really grow?

Also, looks like I have 5 nodes. Time to Top?

Thanks everyone,
G

 

[Azimuth]

The plants are still growing but I am struggling finding the balance with water between the two large plants and the smaller/youngest BAM plants.

The small plants I can spray lightly, water every other day or so, just watch for the leaves to start to droop.

The bigger/older plants are sucking up water at extreme rates. I will feel like I drench them, 6 hrs into light the plants are hanging straight down.

Between the two, the larger plants are distorting my perception when watering the small, I have accidentally overwatered my BAM plants. I caught it and stopped…but it still happened I now water small first, then large.

Would live tips on how often to water and what techniques you all use as your plants starts to really grow?

Your plants aren't big enough to be draining a full watering in one day so what may be happening is that they are still waterlogged in the lower root zone but you've trained them to drink water from up top. Once the feeder roots drain what has passed them by, the plant droops, If so, this will continue until root rot fully sets in and then you've got major issues.

My recommendation is come join us in SIP club (link in my sig) and see how you can eliminate this issue altogether simply with a different pot structure.

Failing that, you could really let them dry out and see if you get a better outcome. At this stage, you should water very slowly to saturation and then let them absorb the water which will likely take maybe a week to 10 days on the first round. Then, after the soil fully dries out, water them again. Each successive cycle should shorten until you have to water every couple of days and then it's ready for an up-pot. At least this is how it's done in the wet/dry cycle.

Also, looks like I have 5 nodes. Time to Top?

I like to train with the Quadlining method (link also in my sig) and with that we do top between the 4th and 5th node. But I suppose it all depends on what your training thoughts are. And plese note, the coty's do not count as a node, but only the ones with actual normal leaves.

Looks to me like you've got more than 5 nodes. How are you counting them?

 

[GPCannabis]

Your plants aren't big enough to be draining a full watering in one day so what may be happening is that they are still waterlogged in the lower root zone but you've trained them to drink water from up top. Once the feeder roots drain what has passed them by, the plant droops, If so, this will continue until root rot fully sets in and then you've got major issues.

My recommendation is come join us in SIP club (link in my sig) and see how you can eliminate this issue altogether simply with a different pot structure.

Failing that, you could really let them dry out and see if you get a better outcome. At this stage, you should water very slowly to saturation and then let them absorb the water which will likely take maybe a week to 10 days on the first round. Then, after the soil fully dries out, water them again. Each successive cycle should shorten until you have to water every couple of days and then it's ready for an up-pot. At least this is how it's done in the wet/dry cycle.


I like to train with the Quadlining method (link also in my sig) and with that we do top between the 4th and 5th node. But I suppose it all depends on what your training thoughts are. And plese note, the coty's do not count as a node, but only the ones with actual normal leaves.

Looks to me like you've got more than 5 nodes. How are you counting them?

Thank you for the reply

I was doing really good until about a week ago. I almost wonder if my past worries of over watering have turned inti under watering?

Due to the lights being on, I have been doing watering in the beginning of an 18 hour light cycle. Is this the best time?

I also just discovered I cannot upload videos here? I was going to post a video of the nodes, see if I was wrong on my counting (which I think I am). Any node above the Cotys I should count? even with 3 finger leaves?

Thank you
G

 

[GPCannabis]

Your plants aren't big enough to be draining a full watering in one day so what may be happening is that they are still waterlogged in the lower root zone but you've trained them to drink water from up top. Once the feeder roots drain what has passed them by, the plant droops, If so, this will continue until root rot fully sets in and then you've got major issues.

My recommendation is come join us in SIP club (link in my sig) and see how you can eliminate this issue altogether simply with a different pot structure.

Failing that, you could really let them dry out and see if you get a better outcome. At this stage, you should water very slowly to saturation and then let them absorb the water which will likely take maybe a week to 10 days on the first round. Then, after the soil fully dries out, water them again. Each successive cycle should shorten until you have to water every couple of days and then it's ready for an up-pot. At least this is how it's done in the wet/dry cycle.


I like to train with the Quadlining method (link also in my sig) and with that we do top between the 4th and 5th node. But I suppose it all depends on what your training thoughts are. And plese note, the coty's do not count as a node, but only the ones with actual normal leaves.

Looks to me like you've got more than 5 nodes. How are you counting them?

How many nodes can you count on the two tall plants?

 

[Azimuth]

I was doing really good until about a week ago. I almost wonder if my past worries of over watering have turned inti under watering?

Due to the lights being on, I have been doing watering in the beginning of an 18 hour light cycle. Is this the best time?

Ok, let's talk watering. How do you determine it's time, how much do you give and how do you do it. More detail is helpful.

Any node above the Cotys I should count? even with 3 finger leaves?

Yes. Initially the nodes will have the growth nodes opposite each other. Then, starting with the 5th node, they'll start growing in alternating fashion, and they are sexurely mature at that point and can flower.

How many nodes can you count on the two tall plants?

Hard to see in the pic, but looks like at least 3-4 above the 4th node.? Maybe 8 total?

 

[GPCannabis]

Ok, let's talk watering. How do you determine it's time, how much do you give and how do you do it. More detail is helpful.

I was at every 2 days on the big guys, then would come in around 6/7 am when I wake up to check on them and they were drooping, I would water, within 30 minutes they would reach for the sky again. My light cycle runs from 6:30 pm - 12:30 pm. So maybe it is just that I need to water just a bit more.

As for how: spray bottle, I spray around the soil, start with the big, let then absorb, fo the small, back to the big.

Yes. Initially the nodes will have the growth nodes opposite each other. Then, starting with the 5th node, they'll start growing in alternating fashion, and they are sexurely mature at that point and can flower.


Hard to see in the pic, but looks like at least 3-4 above the 4th node.? Maybe 8 total?

Time to do some topping i believe. I was not correcting counting the lower nodes.

I will get better pictures tomorrow. If you would be willing I would love to send a message your way when I am preparing.

Thanks again so much,
G

 

[GPCannabis]

Ok, let's talk watering. How do you determine it's time, how much do you give and how do you do it. More detail is helpful.


Yes. Initially the nodes will have the growth nodes opposite each other. Then, starting with the 5th node, they'll start growing in alternating fashion, and they are sexurely mature at that point and can flower.

I definitely messed up on topping. I have one at what I believe is 6 another at 8.

Why do some recommended topping at 4 verses 5?

Any specifics you recommend on topping? How far above the node below? Straight cut? Angle cut?

Also, that means I need to ensure the sex of these two also.

Thanks again,
G

Hard to see in the pic, but looks like at least 3-4 above the 4th node.? Maybe 8 total?

 

[GPCannabis]

Ok, let's talk watering. How do you determine it's time, how much do you give and how do you do it. More detail is helpful.

Just realized I missed part of what you asked.

Basically the general of what I read was vegetation stage should get water every 2-3 days, soil should be dry 2 knuckles down. I stuck with that, got a grove, then started seeing the drooping plants 12 hrs after watering.

Yes. Initially the nodes will have the growth nodes opposite each other. Then, starting with the 5th node, they'll start growing in alternating fashion, and they are sexurely mature at that point and can flower.


Hard to see in the pic, but looks like at least 3-4 above the 4th node.? Maybe 8 total?

 

[Azimuth]

I was at every 2 days on the big guys, then would come in around 6/7 am when I wake up to check on them and they were drooping, I would water, within 30 minutes they would reach for the sky again. My light cycle runs from 6:30 pm - 12:30 pm. So maybe it is just that I need to water just a bit more.

I don't think so. I'll bet your lower roots are not dry. It's not the top two inches you're trying to dry out but the  bottom two. I think you're probably headed to root rot and what looks like deficiencies. Have you read Emilya's How to Water a Potted Plant thread?

Basically you want to be surprised at how light the pot is before you water again. When the pot finally gets dry the plant builds new roots to go look for water.

I will get better pictures tomorrow. If you would be willing I would love to send a message your way when I am preparing.

Either way. I get notices when new content is posted to this thread so I'll see it that way. But pm is fine too.

Why do some recommended topping at 4 verses 5?

Because of the alternating node thing. Once the plant reaches sexual maturity hormones in the plant start to change. But if you top just above node four, you'll be working with opposite facing nodes so it's easier to get a symmetrical plant from training.

Any specifics you recommend on topping? How far above the node below? Straight cut? Angle cut?

Yes, I like to leave a nice stump, rather than cutting it flush. This helps to strengthen the node which can help prevent that node splitting later in flower when the weight of the limbs are pulling against each other. Straight or angle doesn't matter unless you're outside in the rain.

Basically the general of what I read was vegetation stage should get water every 2-3 days, soil should be dry 2 knuckles down. I stuck with that, got a grove, then started seeing the drooping plants 12 hrs after watering.

Not exactly. They should be watered when dry until than cycle gets to be less than three days at which point its time to up-pot. I think starting out at two days almost certainly means you're overwatering. But that's one of the reasons I like SIP. Perfect watering every time.

 

[GPCannabis]

I don't think so. I'll bet your lower roots are not dry. It's not the top two inches you're trying to dry out but the  bottom two. I think you're probably headed to root rot and what looks like deficiencies. Have you read Emilya's How to Water a Potted Plant thread?

Hello again, I have not read it yet. Several have recommended reading it, but honestly, I am not good with tech and have zero clue how to find it. You are the first person the send me a link to it other then just saying a name.

also, woke up to this, I dug down in the side about the length of my hand, the soil is so dry it is dusty. The center where the roots are were barely moist.

When watering, should I water until water comes out the drain? I was told that was bad…???

Are these two big transplant and attempt Sip?

I will read the watering link today.

Basically you want to be surprised at how light the pot is before you water again. When the pot finally gets dry the plant builds new roots to go look for water.


Either way. I get notices when new content is posted to this thread so I'll see it that way. But pm is fine too.


Because of the alternating node thing. Once the plant reaches sexual maturity hormones in the plant start to change. But if you top just above node four, you'll be working with opposite facing nodes so it's easier to get a symmetrical plant from training.


Yes, I like to leave a nice stump, rather than cutting it flush. This helps to strengthen the node which can help prevent that node splitting later in flower when the weight of the limbs are pulling against each other. Straight or angle doesn't matter unless you're outside in the rain.


Not exactly. They should be watered when dry until than cycle gets to be less than three days at which point its time to up-pot. I think starting out at two days almost certainly means you're overwatering. But that's one of the reasons I like SIP. Perfect watering every time.

 

[GPCannabis]

I don't think so. I'll bet your lower roots are not dry. It's not the top two inches you're trying to dry out but the  bottom two. I think you're probably headed to root rot and what looks like deficiencies. Have you read Emilya's How to Water a Potted Plant thread?

ok… I lied, I’m kind of sick and twisted and can’t stop reading. I just got through a bit of her post about how to water and she said she uses a quart at a time on a 3 gallon pot. I’m at 2 1/2 gallons, and spray with a 16 ounce water bottle, and can usually do two or three watering‘s before refilling on these four plants.

I am new to this… but that sounds like I’m underwater? Thus the droop and super dry soil?

Man i love to learn…but this has a wee curve that it tough to learn

Basically you want to be surprised at how light the pot is before you water again. When the pot finally gets dry the plant builds new roots to go look for water.


Either way. I get notices when new content is posted to this thread so I'll see it that way. But pm is fine too.


Because of the alternating node thing. Once the plant reaches sexual maturity hormones in the plant start to change. But if you top just above node four, you'll be working with opposite facing nodes so it's easier to get a symmetrical plant from training.


Yes, I like to leave a nice stump, rather than cutting it flush. This helps to strengthen the node which can help prevent that node splitting later in flower when the weight of the limbs are pulling against each other. Straight or angle doesn't matter unless you're outside in the rain.


Not exactly. They should be watered when dry until than cycle gets to be less than three days at which point its time to up-pot. I think starting out at two days almost certainly means you're overwatering. But that's one of the reasons I like SIP. Perfect watering every time.

 

[Azimuth]

You are the first person the send me a link to it other then just saying a name.

This site has so much information that it can get overwhelming which is why I always try to provide easy access to stuff I recommend.

When watering, should I water until water comes out the drain? I was told that was bad…???

When you water you should thoroughly soak the pot so that the soil can't hold any more. With the wet/dry method you are using that can take a while since as most mixes dry out they become hydrophobic and difficult to rewet.

So thoroughly soak the soil, usually in multiple passings over a good increment of time is the way you do it and then let the soil dry out again and keep track of how many days in between. Each cycle should shorten by a day or so until you have to water every other day, then it is time to uppot.

Are these two big transplant and attempt Sip?

Unless they're autos or photo's in flower you can always uppot to a SIP. Then there will be a 2-3 week transition as it forms its new roots but it will then more than make up for lost time. Plus you can water in all of about 10 seconds. Basically how ever long it takes to pour the water down the fill pipe.

ok… I lied, I’m kind of sick and twisted and can’t stop reading. I just got through a bit of her post about how to water and she said she uses a quart at a time on a 3 gallon pot. I’m at 2 1/2 gallons, and spray with a 16 ounce water bottle, and can usually do two or three watering‘s before refilling on these four plants.

I am new to this… but that sounds like I’m underwater? Thus the droop and super dry soil?

Man i love to learn…but this has a wee curve that it tough to learn

You could very well be. It depends on your mix but I find mine can hold between 20-25% of the pot volume in water. So, your 2.5 gallon pot I'd expect it to hold more than 2 quarts/liters of water when thoroughly saturated. So, if you're not giving them close to that, you may very well be under watering.

 

[GPCannabis]

This site has so much information that it can get overwhelming which is why I always try to provide easy access to stuff I recommend.

Yeah it is amazing that is half of why I landed here, that and it seems like zero disrespect which I dig

Yeah, the watering write up is fantastic.

When you water you should thoroughly soak the pot so that the soil can't hold any more. With the wet/dry method you are using that can take a while since as most mixes dry out they become hydrophobic and difficult to rewet.

So thoroughly soak the soil, usually in multiple passings over a good increment of time is the way you do it and then let the soil dry out again and keep track of how many days in between. Each cycle should shorten by a day or so until you have to water every other day, then it is time to uppot.

This is what I did today with the bigger plants. That is what I was doing in the beginning, but went to far on the seedlings. I went too far in the opposite direction and definitely was under watering. Hopefully I can make a quick turn around on this.

Unless they're autos or photo's in flower you can always uppot to a SIP. Then there will be a 2-3 week transition as it forms its new roots but it will then more than make up for lost time. Plus you can water in all of about 10 seconds. Basically how ever long it takes to pour the water down the fill pipe.

I am so tempted to switch, but I dint want to make a major change, loose time, start a new curve. I have more BAM seeds, and have several other landrace sativas I want to try, so I think Sip will be the next round. I am really excited.

You could very well be. It depends on your mix but I find mine can hold between 20-25% of the pot volume in water. So, your 2.5 gallon pot I'd expect it to hold more than 2 quarts/liters of water when thoroughly saturated. So, if you're not giving them close to that, you may very well be under watering.

I am using Fox Farms, I was using a 16oz spray bottle, would spray down all four, would get several waterings, all with 16 oz. The increase of growth from seeing to now got me I think.

Thanks again,
G

 

[Azimuth]

This is what I did today with the bigger plants. That is what I was doing in the beginning, but went to far on the seedlings. I went too far in the opposite direction and definitely was under watering. Hopefully I can make a quick turn around on this.

Yeah, different rules for seedlings, at least early on when they establish initial roots. But once they get some decent growth going, a full watering is called for. But at the beginning, just enough to keep it going.

I am so tempted to switch, but I dint want to make a major change, loose time, start a new curve. I have more BAM seeds, and have several other landrace sativas I want to try, so I think Sip will be the next round. I am really excited

If you're excited now, just wait until you start growing with them. Growing gets a lot more fun when the plants grow fast.

I am using Fox Farms, I was using a 16oz spray bottle, would spray down all four, would get several waterings, all with 16 oz. The increase of growth from seeing to now got me I think.

Yeah, 16oz across four plants and multiple rounds, sounds like you weren't giving them enough. You are in the minority there as most growers overwater.

 

[GPCannabis]

Yeah, different rules for seedlings, at least early on when they establish initial roots. But once they get some decent growth going, a full watering is called for. But at the beginning, just enough to keep it going.


If you're excited now, just wait until you start growing with them. Growing gets a lot more fun when the plants grow fast.

Yeah I am legitimately excited. Sip is the direction after these four.

I can definitely tell now when things are correct growth is FAST. When an issue arises everything slows down…and if serious nearly stops.

Yeah, 16oz across four plants and multiple rounds, sounds like you weren't giving them enough. You are in the minority there as most growers overwater.

Yesterday at lights on I topped and did a watering with 1 Liter per pot, did it slowly over about 15 minutes, would make sure the excess was drained out, let it sit, spray a bit more, drain excess, etc.

This morning I woke up to the plants stretching and exploding with new green.

Thanks again,
G

 

[GPCannabis]

Alrighty. Thanks to those of you who have been helping me learn along the way.

All plants are now topped at node 4.

I did the watering method recommended, 1L per pot, slowly, combo of pouring and spraying, draining, repeat, work on the other plants and cycle back, bit more water/drain, etc.

Purple Diesel and OG Kush were watered Friday, 6:30am, at lights on.

BAM, Thing 1/Thing 2 were watered Saturday, 6:30am, at lights on.

All I have done since is rotate them each morning.

The growth has been incredible, I feel like since these all crossed the seedling/vegetation line this is the most growth I have seen. From here should I watch for the first sign of droop before the next watering?

 

[GPCannabis]

6 Days after being topped, all 4 plants seem to have exploded. Also keep in mind I am now watering correctly…yes I am the first ever to underwater

My original plan and it seems it may work:

Purple Diesel & OG Kush need 100 days before flowering. Black African Magic need 70 days. February 3rd will be day 100 for PD & OG, just under 70 for BAM.

Thought is switch to 12/12 lighting beginning of February?

Also, I am looking all over these plants trying to sex them…I see either no sex organs yet or I am missing them

Thanks again!

 

[Azimuth]

Also, I am looking all over these plants trying to sex them…I see either no sex organs yet or I am missing them

They aren't sexually mature until the nodes start coming off in alternating, rather than opposite, fashion. Hard to tell from your pics but looks like you're still in opposite nodal presentation. Usually they start alternating at the 5th node.

Then you'll start looking for preflowers, little white hairs for the girls, little ball sacs for the boys.

 

[GPCannabis]

They aren't sexually mature until the nodes start coming off in alternating, rather than opposite, fashion. Hard to tell from your pics but looks like you're still in opposite nodal presentation. Usually they start alternating at the 5th node.

Then you'll start looking for preflowers, little white hairs for the girls, little ball sacs for the boys.

Not following exactly when you say alternating at 5th node as I topped at 4th…So now each has 4 nodes