Brown spots

[cbdhemp808]

Canna coco has 0.007% boron but maybe that's not enough, im not sure where I can find kelp meal readily available near me, am I able to use borax?

Do you have a natural food store nearby? There's a good chance they may have kelp in bulk, in granular or powder form. Or, they may have a boxed product. Sorry, I don't know about borax, but you could google it: using borax as a boron source for cannabis.

 

[kruroisoi]

Do you have a natural food store nearby? There's a good chance they may have kelp in bulk, in granular or powder form. Or, they may have a boxed product. Sorry, I don't know about borax, but you could google it: using borax as a boron source for cannabis.

I will have a look around after work

 

[kruroisoi]

These are photos 36 hours apart, lighting is abit different but it doesn't seem to have progressed a whole lot

 

[cbdhemp808]

Actually, you may be fairly close to harvest, so perhaps no need to worry. Have you checked the trichomes?

 

[kruroisoi]

Actually, you may be fairly close to harvest, so perhaps no need to worry. Have you checked the trichomes?

Yes some are milky but most are still clear. First grow so no expert but I'm expecting another 2-3 weeks. I'm on day 67 autoflower

 

[cbdhemp808]

In that case, no harm and only benefit of adding some kelp, as a tea for ferment.

 

[kruroisoi]

In that case, no harm and only benefit of adding some kelp, as a tea for ferment.

Any idea if this would be suitable? If so a rough dosage based on boron content? Thank you

 

[kruroisoi]

11th May

15th May

 

[cbdhemp808]

Any idea if this would be suitable? If so a rough dosage based on boron content? Thank you

At first glance, the Sodium looks too high. No luck finding kelp granules at a natural food store?

 

[kruroisoi]

At first glance, the Sodium looks too high. No luck finding kelp granules at a natural food store?

So far not locally... I'm abit confused as the kelp you listed was 98 mg/l boron and 40,000 mg/l sodium whereas seasol is 8mg/l boron and 3,200 mg/l sodium so pretty much the same proportions but would need different dose

 

[kruroisoi]

At first glance, the Sodium looks too high. No luck finding kelp granules at a natural food store?

I've also read that boron is an immobile nutrient therefore wont move throughout plant once absorbed. Does this mean adding to normal watering wouldn't be effective?

 

[SmokingWings]

My recommendation is to find a source of kelp or a seaweed product containing "Ascophyllum Nodosum" as the source of Kelp. Look for that and not for the Boron. The Boron is naturally found in Kelp but is not always listed as one of the ingredients.

I do not know what country you live in but there has to be some sort of store that supplies the regular gardening community. These stores should have at least one product that has Kelp as the main ingredient.

I've also read that boron is an immobile nutrient therefore wont move throughout plant once absorbed. Does this mean adding to normal watering wouldn't be effective?

No. It means that the plant will not be able to take the immobile nutrient from where ever part of the plant has used it and will not be able to move it to the leaves or stems where it is needed. If the plant is able to absorb the nutrients through the roots it will automatically send it to the parts that need it whether leaves, stems or flowers. Once the nutrient is there it will become part of the plant and becomes immobile.

 

[kruroisoi]

My recommendation is to find a source of kelp or a seaweed product containing "Ascophyllum Nodosum" as the source of Kelp. Look for that and not for the Boron. The Boron is naturally found in Kelp but is not always listed as one of the ingredients.

I do not know what country you live in but there has to be some sort of store that supplies the regular gardening community. These stores should have at least one product that has Kelp as the main ingredient.


No. It means that the plant will not be able to take the immobile nutrient from where ever part of the plant has used it and will not be able to move it to the leaves or stems where it is needed. If the plant is able to absorb the nutrients through the roots it will automatically send it to the parts that need it whether leaves, stems or flowers. Once the nutrient is there it will become part of the plant and becomes immobile.

Seasol is a kelp extract
"Seasol is derived from a blend of the finest brown kelps from around the world – King Island Bull Kelp (Durvillaea potatorum), Chile Bull Kelp (Durvillaea Antarctica) and Knotted Kelp (Ascophyllum nodosum) from the North Atlantic Ocean"

And thank you I understand that now about immobile nutrients

 

[SmokingWings]

Seasol is a kelp extract
"Seasol is derived from a blend of the finest brown kelps from around the world – King Island Bull Kelp (Durvillaea potatorum), Chile Bull Kelp (Durvillaea Antarctica) and Knotted Kelp (Ascophyllum nodosum) from the North Atlantic Ocean"

My point is that there does not seem to be a need to look for a specific product in this situation. Any "Ascophyllum Nodosum" kelp product should do the job since after a search for info on boron indicates it is naturally found in Kelp.

Keep in mind that once you find the Seasol or any other Kelp product it will take a couple of weeks to notice any change in the plant.

First grow so no expert but I'm expecting another 2-3 weeks. I'm on day 67 autoflower

It has been almost a week since you posted that so if your observations are correct then another week or two left. Most of the damage to plant leaves will not be fixed. Whatever has happened to the plant will stay.

I feel that the idea is to get the right nutrients to the plant so that the problems do not get worse when they have already started to show. And, it could be a week or more after adding the new nutrient before we notice that the damage is no longer getting worse.

Actually the best idea is to get the right nutrient to the plant before the problem even starts to show.

 

[KeithLemon]

My point is that there does not seem to be a need to look for a specific product in this situation. Any "Ascophyllum Nodosum" kelp product should do the job since after a search for info on boron indicates it is naturally found in Kelp.

Keep in mind that once you find the Seasol or any other Kelp product it will take a couple of weeks to notice any change in the plant.


It has been almost a week since you posted that so if your observations are correct then another week or two left. Most of the damage to plant leaves will not be fixed. Whatever has happened to the plant will stay.

I feel that the idea is to get the right nutrients to the plant so that the problems do not get worse when they have already started to show. And, it could be a week or more after adding the new nutrient before we notice that the damage is no longer getting worse.

Actually the best idea is to get the right nutrient to the plant before the problem even starts to show.

Getting the right nutes to the plant before they are needed. Sometimes easier said than done. But true!

 

[kruroisoi]

My point is that there does not seem to be a need to look for a specific product in this situation. Any "Ascophyllum Nodosum" kelp product should do the job since after a search for info on boron indicates it is naturally found in Kelp.

Keep in mind that once you find the Seasol or any other Kelp product it will take a couple of weeks to notice any change in the plant.


It has been almost a week since you posted that so if your observations are correct then another week or two left. Most of the damage to plant leaves will not be fixed. Whatever has happened to the plant will stay.

I feel that the idea is to get the right nutrients to the plant so that the problems do not get worse when they have already started to show. And, it could be a week or more after adding the new nutrient before we notice that the damage is no longer getting worse.

Actually the best idea is to get the right nutrient to the plant before the problem even starts to show.

Yes I'm not expecting results instantly although I am in coco and have heard you can correct issues faster. I have 3 plants but 2 seem to be lagging behind by a week or so. This is the one closest to harvest:

And this is the sick plant:

And yes I agree about the nutrients. These gals were tortured in their first 4 odd weeks due to unknown faulty PH so I was feeding way out of range. I'm wondering if that's caused issues down the line...
I have started dossing seasol into my main feeding as I've read of other Aussies using it from seed to harvest with good results so figured it probably can't hurt.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Hey kruroisoi,

So far not locally... I'm abit confused as the kelp you listed was 98 mg/l boron and 40,000 mg/l sodium whereas seasol is 8mg/l boron and 3,200 mg/l sodium so pretty much the same proportions but would need different dose

You're right on that. The kelp I listed was a generic analysis. I am actually using Down to Earth's kelp product, and I don't have sodium numbers for that yet. I would need to contact the company. But it's a valid point, re: sodium in kelp, and not something I've looked into much yet. I just started using kelp in my grow not long ago, mainly for the iron content. I am definitely not an expert regarding sodium in soils or in fertilizers, and with respect to cannabis. Hopefully someone will chime in here with more info.

A better boron source could be Azomite powder, because it contains potentially much less sodium. The DTE Azomite is 0.1% sodium. DTE doesn't list boron ppm for Azomite, but other sources list 29 ppm. Azomite = hydrated sodium calcium aluminosilicate.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but worm castings and compost are also a good sources of boron and other micronutrients, and how much is available depends on the inputs. The nutrients in worm castings may be more bio-available.

You can make a simple tea using worm castings and/or compost, pure water, and a little sugar or molasses, stir up and let sit overnight. Use immediately. I don't have a recipe handy... maybe @Azimuth or @danishoes21 has a recipe.

 

[Azimuth]

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but worm castings and compost are also a good sources of boron and other micronutrients, and how much is available depends on the inputs. The nutrients in worm castings may be more bio-available.

You can make a simple tea using worm castings and/or compost, pure water, and a little sugar or molasses, stir up and let sit overnight. Use immediately. I don't have a recipe handy... maybe @Azimuth or @danishoes21 has a recipe.

Thanks for the tag, cbd.

My teas are essentially all anaerobic ones these days, following the Jadam methodology and they couldn't be easier. Just add castings to some non-chlorinated water and go to town. I don't add bubble stones or anything.

You can add the sugar source as @cbdhemp808 suggests if you want to try to multiply the microbes over time, but you can also use it immediately as the water will help dissolve the goodies and get them dispersed further down into the container.

Topdressing with a healthy amount of castings is also something I do, and that way each time you water you are sending some of the worm goodness down into your soil. And by healthy, I mean that I use a lot. I've been known to put a layer of an inch or so on top of the soil with positive effects. Fresh castings sitting on the surface like that will dry out to a concrete like consistency so they need to be covered with a mulch layer to help prevent that.

Edit:

Ok, I just read the thread from the beginning and that looks like a classic calcium deficiency to me, which is also far more common than a boron one. If so, the castings would help a lot since they come out of the worm covered in a calcium carbonate slime before they harden into what we call castings.

Also, as cbd says, depending on the feed source to the worms, the castings will have all kinds of other beneficial nutrients all in a plant available form with extra microbes for the soil. So I'd start with the castings to solve what looks to me like a calcium issue, but they bring along so much more to help with other things as well.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Ok, I just read the thread from the beginning and that looks like a classic calcium deficiency to me, which is also far more common than a boron one. If so, the castings would help a lot since they come out of the worm covered in a calcium carbonate slime before they harden into what we call castings.

I thought I read that boron (B) and calcium (Ca) are linked, and sure enough... B helps with the use of Ca, so they are interrelated deficiencies. B deficiency is seen in new growth, and appears as interveinal browning...

I see straight Ca deficiency symptoms as more splotchy, not so interveinal, and occurring on older leaves. Apparently, K and N are needed to use boron, so a deficiency of K and/or N could lead to effective B deficiency.