Barzogro0P
Active Member
First time grower if im using foxfarm ocean forest soil do i have to adjust the ph when using fox farm grow big????
Can anyone help?
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Hello @Barzogro0P . How old are the plants? Should be enough nutrients in the soil for a least 3 weeks. What size containers are you in?
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Barzogro0P
Active Member
Lol 4 days since sprouted but I'm jus curious
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Barzogro0P
Active Member
wheresmylighter
420 Member
What if the plant was 11 weeks old in a 5 gallon fabric pot. The water has nutes and calmag then ph to 7.0. The run off ph is 4.6? Any thoughts?
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
of course you do. There are people out here that advise that you don't have to adjust pH, but we see many many people come in here trying to diagnose deficiency problems that are caused by not properly adjusting the pH of their incoming fluids. 6.3 pH is where you should set every fluid that hits that heavily buffered soil. Pay no attention to runoff pH... it is meaningless in soil and triple meaningless in a buffered soil.
If you check the feed chart for FF nutes, you will find that they give you the proper dosage for even seedlings...
While it may be true that you CAN get several weeks into the grow without using nutes, if you want to grow a bigger plant than would naturally grow in soil alone, use the fertilizer for the purpose it was intended... to grow superior plants. Lots of folks will advise you to use less nutes than FF suggests, but it seems to be a pattern of internet keyboard growing gurus to advise to only give enough to keep mediocre plants simply alive... but not thriving as they would if you were actually fertilizing them as suggested. The plants will let you know if you give too much, but it has been my experience that you can trust the Fox Farms feeding chart at full strength as long as you have good lighting.
Sorry Em
I'm a nay sayer...I have never PHed in FF and never had a problem...EDIT; This does depend on the water in your areaHere's a feeding schedule for you guys, for the trio anyway
...and I start half strength at 2 weeks or 3 sets of real leaves 
but only every third time, as in water & let dry out, water & let dry out, feed & repeat
Grandma Weedstein
Well-Known Member
I disagree that you “have to” pH water — you can if you feel it’s worth it, like if you have weird shitty water. I grow a huge yard of plants and would spend my entire life adjusting pH if that was required. And yet, somehow the plants grow without problem, including the cannabis. It’s not as sensitive as people think, unless your water is totally fucked up. But yeah, you can do it all you want if you enjoy tinkering.
Hear, hearSorry Em
Here's a feeding schedule for you guys, for the trio anyway
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Gardening out in the yard is completely different than operating in a closed container. You are arguing apples and oranges. Of course you don't need to pH adjust outdoors.
If you are using chelated nutes, they are designed to be locked up and unavailable to the plant unless the pH is within a certain range. Potting soils are buffered to the high end of that range, so that if you come in with water or water/nutes at a pH at the bottom of that range, there will be a drift as the pH adjusts to the buffers, and your nutes will slide through the entire pH range where they are designed to be mobile. If you choose not to pH adjust, some combinations of water and nutes will allow enough of the nutes to be mobile that enough of the nutes will be available to the plant until the buffers finally kick in and get the nutes into the proper range. You can't always count on picking up all of the nutes if you miss part of the range however, by coming in way too high or way too low, and if you want to have your nutes available to the plant from the moment that you water, instead of having to wait for the buffers to adjust things, simply adjust the pH before you apply it to the soil. To not do so might work, but I guarantee you that it will waste expensive nutes that you paid for, and never allowed them to be mobile for long enough to be fully taken up by the plant.
So yes, you might be able to get away with not pH adjusting your ff nutes in ff soil in a closed container... but then again, you might not. Why take that chance? It is not hard to adjust to 6.3 pH... and to not do so, is just being lazy.
Grandma Weedstein
Well-Known Member
I am very lazy, so we can agree on that, LOL. I am sure you are correct in what you are saying, but I’d argue that you’re operating at a different level than a first-time grower who just sprouted a plant four days earlier.
There is enough shit that can go wrong if you’ve never grown a plant from seed before that worrying about pH seems like overkill.
Again, I think we may be parsing words as to the difference between “must” and “should” and “could.”
I would simply disagree that a first-time grower “has to” pH their water, which could make them think it will be a disaster if they don’t. Perhaps they “should” if they want to start out on the ground running.
Finally, why is pHing water necessary indoors but not outdoors? I am not challenging you on this, but I don’t understand why it would be that much different. Just the amount of soil involved or what?
I am primarily an outdoor grower though I do dink around in a tent during the early and late seasons and have managed to get “good enough” crops for the effort.
I suppose I am one of those “mediocre” growers you mentioned, but it’s a matter of cost-benefit analysis — I don’t have patience to tinker around with shit, since I got a ton of other things to do, so “good enough” weed is good enough for me.
There is enough shit that can go wrong if you’ve never grown a plant from seed before that worrying about pH seems like overkill.
Again, I think we may be parsing words as to the difference between “must” and “should” and “could.”
I would simply disagree that a first-time grower “has to” pH their water, which could make them think it will be a disaster if they don’t. Perhaps they “should” if they want to start out on the ground running.
Finally, why is pHing water necessary indoors but not outdoors? I am not challenging you on this, but I don’t understand why it would be that much different. Just the amount of soil involved or what?
I am primarily an outdoor grower though I do dink around in a tent during the early and late seasons and have managed to get “good enough” crops for the effort.
I suppose I am one of those “mediocre” growers you mentioned, but it’s a matter of cost-benefit analysis — I don’t have patience to tinker around with shit, since I got a ton of other things to do, so “good enough” weed is good enough for me.
You do not need to ph your water or nutrients for a buffered soil. I’ve done some pretty extreme side by side tests in Sunshine Mix (peat/perlite/lime) using insanely high and insanely low ph levels, and the plants on both ends of the spectrum were equally fine.
I use Promix now and do not test or adjust ph.
Try adding whatever ph water or nutes you want, to a bit of your soil to make a slurry, and watch the soil adjust the ph to a proper range, usually within minutes.
If it doesn’t- your soil isn’t properly buffered, which is very unlikely. But even in that case PH’ing your water probably isn’t going to save the day. Or help.
Grab your ph meter. Do some experiments. Only takes a few minutes.
I use Promix now and do not test or adjust ph.
Try adding whatever ph water or nutes you want, to a bit of your soil to make a slurry, and watch the soil adjust the ph to a proper range, usually within minutes.
If it doesn’t- your soil isn’t properly buffered, which is very unlikely. But even in that case PH’ing your water probably isn’t going to save the day. Or help.
Grab your ph meter. Do some experiments. Only takes a few minutes.
I can understand both sides of the argument but from my experience with the soil, nutrients and water I use I'd have to say closely controlling pH is worth that little effort. First grow I didn't pH and got an okay result but the plant faded massively in the final stretch. Subsequent grows I used Apple cider vinegar and pH test strips to roughly control things. Had no major issues. Current grow I've accurately monitored the pH and had my best plant so far. Stacked, super frosty and still a nice green nearly 10 weeks from flip. Could be genetics, could be the pH control. I'm leaning towards the latter as my veg girls have been very healthy too.
Others experiences may differ.
Others experiences may differ.
I think if the water source is high alkaline then ph as the medium will rise faster ,
using synthetic nutes i would say ph every time
getting the microbes to feed the plant no ph
humic and fulvic acids buffer high and low ph too if its in the mx , i never used bag potting soils ever, so i cant say
Just my thoughts
using synthetic nutes i would say ph every time
getting the microbes to feed the plant no ph
humic and fulvic acids buffer high and low ph too if its in the mx , i never used bag potting soils ever, so i cant say
Just my thoughts
I’ve emailed the ph guys from the makers of both Promix and Sunshine mix in the past and got the same answer I gave above. Adjusting ph of nutrient solutions or water is pointless.
Emailed Foxfarm just now to ask them this question as well, re OF. So I’ll post that here if they respond, and if I’m still around.
Honestly, your ph meter and a simple slurry test can answer the question better and faster than anyone else can though, IMO.
Emailed Foxfarm just now to ask them this question as well, re OF. So I’ll post that here if they respond, and if I’m still around.
Honestly, your ph meter and a simple slurry test can answer the question better and faster than anyone else can though, IMO.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Not to be argumentative, but it seems to me that it is the new grower who needs to pH adjust more than the experienced grower who can recognize a problem when it develops and react to it. The new grower needs to have everything adjusted as closely to optimum levels as possible, just to avoid any possible problems that might develop.
Typically outdoors in the ground a gardener would not use the same bottled chelated nutes that they would use indoors, in a closed container, therefore there would be no need to worry about pH. We only pH adjust because of our synthetic nutes... without them, there is no need to be in a narrow pH range because the microbes and the plants really don't care about pH that is within the normal limits that support life. Microbes abound outdoors in the natural soil, whereas in a closed container things can get out of whack very easily and the wrong or even bad microbes can start to thrive and the pH can swing wildly in either direction, making a closed container grow much more tricky than a grow outside in the ground.
Typically outdoors in the ground a gardener would not use the same bottled chelated nutes that they would use indoors, in a closed container, therefore there would be no need to worry about pH. We only pH adjust because of our synthetic nutes... without them, there is no need to be in a narrow pH range because the microbes and the plants really don't care about pH that is within the normal limits that support life. Microbes abound outdoors in the natural soil, whereas in a closed container things can get out of whack very easily and the wrong or even bad microbes can start to thrive and the pH can swing wildly in either direction, making a closed container grow much more tricky than a grow outside in the ground.
I would think it depends on how much organic crap was added to the soil mix for microbes to really get out of control ,
I am working with coco soil using microbes and homemade ferts to feed those microbes so they feed my girls
To be honest heavy flower will tell the story , this is my very first run , these microbes came from three trees , under some mushrooms lol, this is an none bubble tea , the bubbles are microbes farting
, its gases from them , after one day you have millions
I am working with coco soil using microbes and homemade ferts to feed those microbes so they feed my girls
To be honest heavy flower will tell the story , this is my very first run , these microbes came from three trees , under some mushrooms lol, this is an none bubble tea , the bubbles are microbes farting
, its gases from them , after one day you have millions
Foxfarm’s reply.
“Thank you for contacting FoxFarm! I would be happy to help.
While our soils do contain buffers do adjust pH, we always recommend that feeding and watering solutions fall into a range of 5.6-6.8 to ensure full and optimum absorption of nutrients.”
“Thank you for contacting FoxFarm! I would be happy to help.
While our soils do contain buffers do adjust pH, we always recommend that feeding and watering solutions fall into a range of 5.6-6.8 to ensure full and optimum absorption of nutrients.”
its a good big range too
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
When I said that I was thinking of the mess that you get when putting stones in the bottom of a container, "for drainage." That slimy black evil smelling mess that you get down there is the bad microbes taking over. This has killed many a grow.
yes i get you , see this is why i am trying it with coco so i can keep it damp but airy at the same time
i have my tap water on stand by for bad guys , that will sort them out lol its full of every thing , its even killing me slowly
i have my tap water on stand by for bad guys , that will sort them out lol
its full of every thing , its even killing me slowly Similar threads
