Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention: Decarb to Extraction

[Kicknitup1]

"-Side note on decarb: we know there is a lot of wiggle room in the time/temp area---sort of. In that you can have damn good oil and still be off several % as long as your starting material is good. But we naturally want to maximize it's potential for a host of reasons; especially if your starting material is incredibly average. Otherwise, high doses become cost prohibitive. So we need to get as close as possible. BUT that is not presently an exact science due to lack of real time measurement capabilities."

The decarb of every batch would be slightly different due to moisture content, age, etc. So, at best we find the sweet spot and work from there batch to batch. The people at Nova want us to believe it's one stop shopping. I think that's ambitious. But, it could be that the controlled time/temp they have set is as close as can be expected without the aforementioned non-existent real time testing.

 

[TashaLit]

When I find some experts I'll ask.

Hemp CBD has come a long way in the past year. By chance, does it say anywhere in the information where this hemp originated from? There are fields in Kentucky and Colorado that're turning out good quality. The addition of the terpenes is fascinating. I wasn't aware they'd started doing this.

Molecules are molecules, so a CBD molecule from hemp is really no different from one grown from medicinal cannabis. What makes the biggest difference is the lack of other components with hemp, most notably the terpenes. A reputable company that understands the ratios that would be effective could make a big dent in the market, I'd think.

The only thing missing is THC, a small amount of which would potentiate the CBD well beyond what it could be alone.

Well, SweetS, you were the expert that I was hoping would chime in on this topic for for me. . . Thanks for the feedback. I wasn't able to find information on where the hemp originated. High Times recently featured Empire Extracts in an article:

Strain Review: Empire Wellness CBD – High Times

I totally agree about the THC. I do believe that thc and cbd work synergistically together and that they should be combined for maximum medicinal effect.

I'm really excited about this stuff, so thank you for indulging me. . It's difficult for me to find folks to discuss all of these things with. Thanks again, SweetS!

When I find some experts I'll ask.

Hemp CBD has come a long way in the past year. By chance, does it say anywhere in the information where this hemp originated from? There are fields in Kentucky and Colorado that're turning out good quality. The addition of the terpenes is fascinating. I wasn't aware they'd started doing this.

Molecules are molecules, so a CBD molecule from hemp is really no different from one grown from medicinal cannabis. What makes the biggest difference is the lack of other components with hemp, most notably the terpenes. A reputable company that understands the ratios that would be effective could make a big dent in the market, I'd think.

The only thing missing is THC, a small amount of which would potentiate the CBD well beyond what it could be alone.

 

[Kicknitup1]

"When I find some experts I'll ask."

That's just it. We should be able to cast a wide enough net to find some of these people. They are not as common as plumbers but they are out there. Surely someone associated with this board has a friend. One guy commented that his dad was a chemist...well that's a start but I don't think he asked dad the correct questions within context. Hmmm, perhaps someone hoping to land a job in the edibles industry would show off some knowledge prowess. I think we can find them. It will just take some thought to know where to look and how to get them to help. There is pay, publicity, and the occasional benevolent person who just wants to advance the cause. Find the person and it will be obvious what motivation will be necessary. Canyon is making friends in the lab. We need friends like that. Almost all the info we seek is old knowledge from other industries.

 

[Skunkworkz]

"When I find some experts I'll ask."

That's just it. We should be able to cast a wide enough net to find some of these people. They are not as common as plumbers but they are out there. Surely someone associated with this board has a friend...

From my experience: What happens on Canna-boards is, when an expert does pop in & post, they're more frequently than not given a load of shite by resident "experts" & they leave. Especially because most posting is done anonymously. Nobody with a doctorate in bio-chem is going to sign their posts. There's nothing more fucking annoying than people asking for help, then upon posting it, the great unwashed resident "experts" pop up demanding "verification" of bona fides or threaten to dismiss the data posted. I've seen it 100s of times. Hell, I've been growing professionally indoors for decades, and I rarely post help notes because tbh I can't be bothered with the forum know-it-alls & their bullshit as my time is more valuable than to be wasted playing one-up with some copy-paste jerkoff "expert."
Just my observation.

Ok, ️

 

[Oldbear]

Oh my ... I'm not feeling the good vibes and +ve energy ....

 

[Skunkworkz]

Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention - Decarb to Extraction

Oh my ... I'm not feeling the good vibes and +ve energy ....

Ah, I love Sue to pieces. .
But, that statement stands. Sometimes the hard truths aren't a warm hug, but it doesn't make them any less true.

 

[Canyon]

From my experience: What happens on Canna-boards is, when an expert does pop in & post, they're more frequently than not given a load of shite by resident "experts" & they leave. Especially because most posting is done anonymously. Nobody with a doctorate in bio-chem is going to sign their posts. There's nothing more fucking annoying than people asking for help, then upon posting it, the great unwashed resident "experts" pop up demanding "verification" of bona fides or threaten to dismiss the data posted. I've seen it 100s of times. Hell, I've been growing professionally indoors for decades, and I rarely post help notes because tbh I can't be bothered with the forum know-it-alls & their bullshit as my time is more valuable than to be wasted playing one-up with some copy-paste jerkoff "expert."
Just my observation.

Ok, ️

Good points. Welcome to the thread.

All I can say is, I have experienced very little of that in my little corner of this site.

I have visions of someone with knowledge being overloaded with questions.

Good information today is bird cage liner tomorrow. We need to remember that.

I never know
Best

 

[Canyon]

This came in a few minutes ago. I will watch for more.

 

[Kicknitup1]

From my experience: What happens on Canna-boards is, when an expert does pop in & post, they're more frequently than not given a load of shite by resident "experts" & they leave. Especially because most posting is done anonymously. Nobody with a doctorate in bio-chem is going to sign their posts. There's nothing more fucking annoying than people asking for help, then upon posting it, the great unwashed resident "experts" pop up demanding "verification" of bona fides or threaten to dismiss the data posted. I've seen it 100s of times. Hell, I've been growing professionally indoors for decades, and I rarely post help notes because tbh I can't be bothered with the forum know-it-alls & their bullshit as my time is more valuable than to be wasted playing one-up with some copy-paste jerkoff "expert."
Just my observation.

Ok, ️

I have observed that elsewhere also and it's a shame. I too have been reluctant to help elsewhere for the same reasons. The reason I settled here was because I saw a better attitude and more mature people. Well, SweetSue's boards in general. I haven't seen the ego problem here. So far everyone seems well aware that we are working on broad assumptions and that there is plenty of room for improvement. I am new here. Are you active on SweetSue's boards? Have you experienced that kind of problem here?

As for experts, I do not expect someone to pop up and say "I'm the resident biochemist at General Mills and this is the deal on lecithin". If they have cred it will show. And we can be told subtly that the info is valid. I may be naive but I don't think that is the climate here. I would certainly love for someone to give us a chance. Sounds like you have a ton of experience on the grow side. I think your insight would be warmly welcomed.

 

[dr.h00k]

......cheerz...h00k...

 

[Kicknitup1]

Not too shabby buddy! lol

 

[SweetSue]

From my experience: What happens on Canna-boards is, when an expert does pop in & post, they're more frequently than not given a load of shite by resident "experts" & they leave. Especially because most posting is done anonymously. Nobody with a doctorate in bio-chem is going to sign their posts. There's nothing more fucking annoying than people asking for help, then upon posting it, the great unwashed resident "experts" pop up demanding "verification" of bona fides or threaten to dismiss the data posted. I've seen it 100s of times. Hell, I've been growing professionally indoors for decades, and I rarely post help notes because tbh I can't be bothered with the forum know-it-alls & their bullshit as my time is more valuable than to be wasted playing one-up with some copy-paste jerkoff "expert."
Just my observation.

Ok, ️

I hear you, but that's really not the way we work in this neighborhood. We seek knowledge, because that knowledge is power, and we do all we can to leave ego out of the discussion. I personally don't care who gets the credit as long as we get to make the information public in a way that the most people can gain the greatest benefit. Without them having to pay for it.

So if we have any lurkers with knowledge that would make our lives and the lives of our patients easier, I encourage you to jump in and join the discussion. No one's going to get away with disrespecting you in one of my rooms, nor would they consider it.

 

[SweetSue]

Damn Canyon! Can you grow them or what?

 

[SweetSue]

You make the Southwest look more attractive all the time Canyon.

 

[Canyon]

[FONT=&amp]Well if I did the math correctly, the extraction is near 100%
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
50g wet divided by 4=12.5g dry[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]12.5g X 17.3%=2.94g[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]There is 275ml in the beaker, 16 were taken as samples and some was left behind. Call it 300ml.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]2.94g divided by 300ml=0.0098g/ml. or about 1%
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
There is also the density of 0.9g/ml to factor in as well as the 88% conversion factor.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
The obvious problem is that the decarb is only about 10% complete.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]We can back track the infusion with the tCheck on the first 3 samples. That should be worth something. But, can we establish optimum decarb without more lab test? [/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
I never know[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]I am going to post both lab tests to save some scrolling

[/FONT]

 

[308jerry]

All righty then.....

 

[308jerry]

Thanks for trying KU1, Canyon and SS. I chose to do what I did..... If my state ever becomes legal, I'll be sending in buckets of samples......

 

[Oldbear]

I need some guidance in understanding these results.

Sample 1 total Cannabinoids is 209 mg/g
Sample 2 total Cannabinoids is 10.44 mg/g

Does that indicate a huge loss during extraction?

 

[SweetSue]

I need some guidance in understanding these results.

Sample 1 total Cannabinoids is 209 mg/g
Sample 2 total Cannabinoids is 10.44 mg/g

Does that indicate a huge loss during extraction?

The first sample was flower. If we could extract 100% of the cannabinoids, that's what's available in this sample.

The second was in infused extraction, and potency of the extraction is a direct result of the intended dilution.

 

[Kicknitup1]

I hear you, but that's really not the way we work in this neighborhood. We seek knowledge, because that knowledge is power, and we do all we can to leave ego out of the discussion. I personally don't care who gets the credit as long as we get to make the information public in a way that the most people can gain the greatest benefit. Without them having to pay for it.

So if we have any lurkers with knowledge that would make our lives and the lives of our patients easier, I encourage you to jump in and join the discussion. No one's going to get away with disrespecting you in one of my rooms, nor would they consider it.

I don't know how you can say it any better than that!