Help: LED lights, having trouble getting seedlings to grow

[sstressed]

howdy. i grew under HIDs for years. never had a problem. i'm using LEDs and keep losing seeds and time.
at $100 ish per 5 female seeds, this is getting ridiculous.

i got a decent crop under the LEDs once but i've been stalled for weeks now.

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4.5 x 4.5 tent

two 2000xs viparspectra lights - i have used one light on seedlings set at 40% power and at 50% power. light about 22 To 20 inches above the seeds.

heat mat set to 78 degrees F - tent temp from 71 to 75f. i could heat it up more by turning one of the lights up high but that would add much more light to the seedlings than viparspectra recommends.

good humidity dome. one large one small.

using the same seed starting soil that i used for years. tried it with a lot of perlight and just the soil as package.

plant the seedlings with starter root poking out, 1/2 inch deep.

humidity is high and i spray water on the soil a couple times a day.
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i pop 6 seeds each time. 2 or 3 will pop out of the soil but the shell remains on. too tightly closed to help it drop off. they eventually fall over. wither up and die. once in awhile it looks like the shell has come off but the initial two leaves remain tightly holding each other instead of opening up like normal.

i buy from 420. I told them that they have weak seeds because they just don't look strong and vital from the get go. it's more likely that it's grower error, not them.

Well, that's it. what am i doing wrong??

i have 5 more seeds ready to go and i'd hate to lose more time money and time

the stash is slowly disappearing.

 

[Buds Buddy]

I bought 30 seeds from 420 & all have germinated just fine. I start my seeds in FFOF in Solo Cups. Seed straight in the soil. None of that shot glass of water or paper towel B.S. That's for those who can't leave things alone in my book. I might lose 1 out of 100 seeds starting them straight in soil. I only plant my seeds about 1/4" deep though. I water the entire cup with about 3 - 4 oz. of water & let it sit till it sprouts. Usually within 3 days. No Heat Mats. Just sitting on the Drain Pans. Tent is usually around 78 - 80 F as I don't run any exhaust or AC for 2-3 weeks. Just my humidifier. I don't use any domes either. If you planted a seed in the ground (soil) outside you wouldn't use a heat mat or domes so why use them indoors ? Try it, you'll be surprised !

 

[Mayne]

on point,

 

[Delps8]

howdy. i grew under HIDs for years. never had a problem. i'm using LEDs and keep losing seeds and time.
at $100 ish per 5 female seeds, this is getting ridiculous.

i got a decent crop under the LEDs once but i've been stalled for weeks now.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.5 x 4.5 tent

two 2000xs viparspectra lights - i have used one light on seedlings set at 40% power and at 50% power. light about 22 To 20 inches above the seeds.

heat mat set to 78 degrees F - tent temp from 71 to 75f. i could heat it up more by turning one of the lights up high but that would add much more light to the seedlings than viparspectra recommends.

good humidity dome. one large one small.

using the same seed starting soil that i used for years. tried it with a lot of perlight and just the soil as package.

plant the seedlings with starter root poking out, 1/2 inch deep.

humidity is high and i spray water on the soil a couple times a day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


i pop 6 seeds each time. 2 or 3 will pop out of the soil but the shell remains on. too tightly closed to help it drop off. they eventually fall over. wither up and die. once in awhile it looks like the shell has come off but the initial two leaves remain tightly holding each other instead of opening up like normal.

i buy from 420. I told them that they have weak seeds because they just don't look strong and vital from the get go. it's more likely that it's grower error, not them.

Well, that's it. what am i doing wrong??

i have 5 more seeds ready to go and i'd hate to lose more time money and time

the stash is slowly disappearing.

Stressed - I was in the same situation as you exactly one year ago. I pooched two sets of seeds ($100 for 5 seeds) after which I did a fair amount of research. I ended up using a SuperSprouter and Rapid Rooters and put together an approach that has worked pretty well for me.

At this moment, I've got a couple of 420 GG autos that popped up out of the RapidRooters yesterday. The RR's are in a SuperSprouter dome. I used the 18 watt T5 that comes with the SS for my last two grows but have benched the T5 in favor of a Vipar Spectra XS-1500.

I wasn't sure of the right settings for the light so I contacted support@viparspectra.com and they got back to me the next day.

Your temps could be a bit higher but that's a minor point. Most of what I've read recommends 80°F or a bit more. Look for a VPD chart that shows VPD for different stages of plant growth. If you've got the inclination and the $$, grab a PulseOne. I've attached a screenshot of my tent (2' x 4').

"shell remains on" - I had to deal with that today. My approach is to put the seeds in water for 24 hours, then into the RR's. I've read about scuffing the seeds using sandpaper. One way to do that is to roll the sandpaper in a tube, drop in a seed/seeds, and shake them up. The goal is to scuff the exterior so as to make it easier for the seed to dispose of the seed pod.

I did not scuff the seeds but, after soaking, one of the seeds had split the husk already. The other had a bit of a struggle so I removed it by using a hemostat.

My lesson learned - scuff the seeds.

Re. amount of water - advice that I've tried to follow is less is better. I use a syringe and add just a few CC's a day. I grow in RR's and then RDWC so I can't give you help re. soil.

Not enough light and too much water is how I killed my seedlings last year. I've attached a photo of the carnage from last March. Classic screw up.


Below are my notes from sources here on 420:

"Rexer
Presoak a rapid rooter. I presoak in 5.8 PH, 60PPM or so of cal mag. And some root builder (hydroguard, or any other baccullis solution).

Drop the seed into the rooter.
Keep it moist and warm. Don't cook them, but a nice 27C (80°) or so seems to work.
The rapid rooter will only hold so much moisture prior to shedding the excess. Which is why I love them vs rockwool.
Keep dropping some water ever 4 or 6 hours for a good soak onto the rooter.

That's it. I hit them with light from a led (full spectrum, 40 dollar special from the Zon) the instant they pop above the rooter. Roots will show from the bottom of the Rooter within a day.
Then their into seedling care in the final pot


Apoc
420
20200720
"Yes Rapid Rooters are fine as long as they don't mold. When you get them stick a baggie or glove on your hand and split them up in quart baggies then burp the air out the bag.

If you use the water method check after 12 and 24 hours but don't let them go past 24 hours. Old seed I soak for 12 then drop in a rooter.

You can put an ounce of water in the bottom of the tray to make the seeds reach for water.

As soon as you see the tap root sticking out transplant to whatever dirt/media you use.

When transplanted just give them like 6 ounces of water in the morning and check before bed to see it they need a small drink. (For tents anyway) increase water slowly at about 2 weeks be thinking a quart a day. Shoot it by eye from there."




2013/01/07
Xlr8 on 420
"My seed germination technique"

"Pre-soak seeds in glass for a few hours
Pre-soak rooter plug 12-24 hours (probably doesn't need to be that long)
Use RO water from store - do not PH balance it
Shake/squeeze out excess moisture in the rooter
Use a tweezers or pen to loosen up the hole, and make it slightly deeper.
Position seed in the rooter plug, pointy end up
Cover the hole on the rapid rooter plug by tearing a small piece of the plug, and loosely covering the hole.
Place rapid rooter, with seed in it, inside humidity dome, under flourescent lights (I use T5's).
Rooter plugs should be moistened with plain RO water periodically, but only moistened
Heat mat is not needed - and it can dry the rooter plug too fast. Humidity only needs to be around 50%. I just mist the humidity dome periodically.
No nutrients are needed with seedlings until the 3rd set of true leaves.
I transplant when roots are showing through the bottom and sides of rooter plugs"



"As the seed is below ground for the first 3 or 4 days light is not required once it sprouts you want to put under the light for 18hrs a day."


Good1987 on 420
"I just germinated this new grow in rapid rooters. Only real difference is im running top fed dwc so i just set up my pumps and feeder lines, dampened the rooter, placed the seed in lightly, plugged the hole with a ripped off piece of the rooter, covered with a paper plate, and turned on my pumps. My led has been on the entire time but as high as i could get it to keep my tent around 75-80 degrees. I did this monday and today i have 2 beautiful sprouts. No pre soaking at all.""

 

[Roy Growin]

I'm with BB - keep it simple
Bought a heat mat and it caused more problems than it solved - room temp is fine
I use a 60w blue LED at about 24" to start with and bring it down to about 12-18" on sprouts to (try to) prevent stretch

 

[Buds Buddy]

I'm with BB - keep it simple
Bought a heat mat and it caused more problems than it solved - room temp is fine
I use a 60w blue LED at about 24" to start with and bring it down to about 12-18" on sprouts to (try to) prevent stretch

Yeah, I only use my Spider Farmer SF1000 for germinating at about the same height you do. No dimmer on it, so it's full blast. But still only 100 watts. Seeds always sprout in 3-4 days.

 

[Delps8]

Yeah, I only use my Spider Farmer SF1000 for germinating at about the same height you do. No dimmer on it, so it's full blast. But still only 100 watts. Seeds always sprout in 3-4 days.

Is that 24/0, 18/6?

 

[Buds Buddy]

Is that 24/0, 18/6?

18/6

 

[Delps8]

Wow, "no shit?" And no issues with too much light? (rhetorical question)

My thinking — per this page, your SF1000 is generating 420 µmols. At 18/6, that's a DLI of 27 moles. That's veg territory. My grow is only in day three and I'm at 160 µmols and, no surprise, they're looking leggy.

A well known poster on a site for autos recently posted "I run about 25 DLI from seed to transplant ~ 7 days." Again, that's a shitton of light but, heh, the proof is in the pudding, right?

 

[Delps8]

18/6

A followup - using a DLI of 25 for seedlings has lead to a superb outcome. The plants are thriving with excellent leaf growth and a healthy, uniform green color.

Details - a Viper Spectra XS1500 and a RapidLED Royal Blue LED puck were the light sources. Light levels were measured using Apogee MQ-500 held at the highest part of the plant. The schedule for the two lights varied with Viper Spectra running 18/6, while the Puck was used for 8 hours a day. DLI was as close to 25 as I could get it understanding that a difference of just ½" in plant height and/or the plants being a few inches horizontally dispersed makes a measurable difference in PPFD and, therefore, DLI.

Those variances are minutiae - the takeaway is that a DLI of 25 for these seedlings has had excellent results.

 

[scottreid1966]

howdy. i grew under HIDs for years. never had a problem. i'm using LEDs and keep losing seeds and time.
at $100 ish per 5 female seeds, this is getting ridiculous.

i got a decent crop under the LEDs once but i've been stalled for weeks now.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.5 x 4.5 tent

two 2000xs viparspectra lights - i have used one light on seedlings set at 40% power and at 50% power. light about 22 To 20 inches above the seeds.

heat mat set to 78 degrees F - tent temp from 71 to 75f. i could heat it up more by turning one of the lights up high but that would add much more light to the seedlings than viparspectra recommends.

good humidity dome. one large one small.

using the same seed starting soil that i used for years. tried it with a lot of perlight and just the soil as package.

plant the seedlings with starter root poking out, 1/2 inch deep.

humidity is high and i spray water on the soil a couple times a day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


i pop 6 seeds each time. 2 or 3 will pop out of the soil but the shell remains on. too tightly closed to help it drop off. they eventually fall over. wither up and die. once in awhile it looks like the shell has come off but the initial two leaves remain tightly holding each other instead of opening up like normal.

i buy from 420. I told them that they have weak seeds because they just don't look strong and vital from the get go. it's more likely that it's grower error, not them.

Well, that's it. what am i doing wrong??

i have 5 more seeds ready to go and i'd hate to lose more time money and time

the stash is slowly disappearing.

plant the seedlings with starter root poking out, 1/2 inch deep.

As by starter root, I think the more common term would be TAP root. Tap roots should be planted down because the plant is still in the shell. My apologies if I misunderstood.

 

[bluter]

led can take a bit and it depends on how good the light is. a rough guide with dimming is :

25 - 50% at seedling 24 inches above
50 - 65% at late seedling / early veg 24 inches above
65 - 75% early thru mid veg at 24 inches above
75 - 90% late veg to early flower at 24 inches above
90 - 100% in flower 24 - 18 inches above.

a good flower rig needs about 75w per plant to be serious. i run 600w worth of led in a 4x4 in flower, but i don't use it all. i dim it back a to between 85 - 90%.

i also run the majority of my grow at 24 inches, even in flower. the flower rig is 3 times the power of the veg rig though. not many folk do it that way. it's a bit of a throwback approach.