Increasing yield with defoliation indoors: What's it mean? How to do it?

[DrOfDank]

GiGaBaNE, being in a place where I'm about to go get stoned, looking at what you wrote, I realize what I failed to do. I forgot to translate from American into English. LOL! See, I read your post in my native American, but then I saw you're in the Land of Eng, and I thought, hmm, so I re-read your post in my wonderful British accent, and, yep. It made sense.

 

[spring2012]

Bassman thanks again for the help and advice. You are so right. I learned much more going back through the education part! Ill post a few pics after I bent the girls. Ill say one thing to anyone doing this method. Read read and read again and oh ...proper planing! I cant wait to try this again with better planing on my part. Any way I think these can still be salvaged. I striped them a few days back and bent them hard. I will be building my pvc frame in the am. Watching the buds reach for the light is so cool. I am a new fan of bending ( super cropping ). Once my auto mazar is complete I will have more room to bend if needed.

 

[BigIrishDoode]

how come when i supercrop my plants dont heal up to those nice round knuckles all shiny green, me break and dont even seal up they just stiffen and continue to grow up towards the light all seems fine but they dont close and heal like i see others do?

 

[spring2012]

how come when i supercrop my plants dont heal up to those nice round knuckles all shiny green, me break and dont even seal up they just stiffen and continue to grow up towards the light all seems fine but they dont close and heal like i see others do?

I'm sure Bassman has the answer but I have experienced the same as you recently. Most of my first bends are healing up fine. What I noticed was that if I did not hear a snap that branch would straighten within a few hours. You said they just stiffen up. Do the flowers face up and continue to grow or does the entire branch go back to a similar spot? My bends seem to be turning darker and healing great but only the ones that I heard a snap. I also noticed a bit of liquid come out of each bend. I know this may not answer your question but I am empathetic to your question.

 

[spring2012]

Bassman any suggestions on watering!!? Again I did not properly plan! I need to build a pvc frame to string up the long branches, Doing this will stop my watering method. I water and feed outside of the tent. Typically in my spare bathtub. Getting to the pots could pose a problem if left in the tent. I suppose I could use a long spout type of watering can. At this point I am using other branches as supports. I could continue to do that and plan differently next time. Any advice is welcome!

 

[GigaGrew]

Bassman any suggestions on watering!!? Again I did not properly plan! I need to build a pvc frame to string up the long branches, Doing this will stop my watering method. I water and feed outside of the tent. Typically in my spare bathtub. Getting to the pots could pose a problem if left in the tent. I suppose I could use a long spout type of watering can. At this point I am using other branches as supports. I could continue to do that and plan differently next time. Any advice is welcome!

might be worth laying out some of that hose we use for drip feeding and attach it to the bottom of a bucket of some kind...work out that if you fill the bucket up to X level, you know each plant will pretty much get the right amount of the liquid intended for it. just build a decent runoff tray into your frame so you can clean up the run off (be sure to use a small gradient obviously) =)

 

[spring2012]

might be worth laying out some of that hose we use for drip feeding and attach it to the bottom of a bucket of some kind...work out that if you fill the bucket up to X level, you know each plant will pretty much get the right amount of the liquid intended for it. just build a decent runoff tray into your frame so you can clean up the run off (be sure to use a small gradient obviously) =)

Good advice!

 

[Hiker]

how come when i supercrop my plants dont heal up to those nice round knuckles all shiny green, me break and dont even seal up they just stiffen and continue to grow up towards the light all seems fine but they dont close and heal like i see others do?

I'm sure Bassman has the answer but I have experienced the same as you recently. Most of my first bends are healing up fine. What I noticed was that if I did not hear a snap that branch would straighten within a few hours. You said they just stiffen up. Do the flowers face up and continue to grow or does the entire branch go back to a similar spot? My bends seem to be turning darker and healing great but only the ones that I heard a snap. I also noticed a bit of liquid come out of each bend. I know this may not answer your question but I am empathetic to your question.

I agree you want the "snap". I dunno if this is right, but shortly after I started growing in the 90's, I took a botany course as part of my biology major. Of course, I applied everything they taught me to my MJ plants. When I bend stem, I also try to get it to "snap". What I think is happening is the pith cells are bursting. At least that's what I'm trying to do. The goal is to keep the outer layers, xylem and phloem, intact since they are the transport vessels. You have trouble when the pith cells don't break before the outer layers. That's then the stem literally breaks. This is almost always repairable. You should be prepared though. I keep a couple small pieces of duct tape, already torn, waiting nearby. If I mess up and a stem breaks, I just put back where it was and wrap the duct tape around it. The duct tape us usually enough to hold the branch in place, if not I support it somehow in addition to the duct tape bandage. Out of the dozen or so breaks this grow, I've only had one that didn't heal and it was because I didn't have the duct tape handy. You need to make the repair asap.

Anyway, I'm probably wrong about the pith cells bursting, but that explains the sound, the feel, and the occasional 'bleeding' of liquid. Pith cells are where the plant stores extra resources, ie water and nutes, for the periods of drought.

 

[spring2012]

Hiker,
Sounds logical. I do agree...keep tape ready to go!

 

[GigaGrew]

i just use some long nose pliers(pincers) to crunch the stem, then bend to where i want it, then tether it. =D

 

[Hiker]

i just use some long nose pliers(pincers) to crunch the stem, then bend to where i want it, then tether it. =D

That works too.

If it's a thicker stem. I'll often crush the pith, or core, by pinching the stem. Sorta flatten, or ovalize, it a little. Then bend it. You don't have to pinch it all the way flat though. I think you can learn to "feel" it. I had not grown for a couple decades, and I found it came back to me quickly. Some of my first bends in this new garden didn't "snap", but now they are bending like I remember. Like most things, it gets easier with practice.

 

[GigaGrew]

i really like the crush then bend method i feel more in control. i hate vertical splits and this pretty much eliminates them.

 

[jlt1202]

Hey when you get a sec i just did some defoiling on my Northern Lights if you could check it out and let me know if im on the right track that would be whats up!

Northern Lights - Building An Army

 

[BigIrishDoode]

well i do crush them with my fingers i kind of work them back n forth too till they will bend and twist about halfway or 180 degrees around, and lay them over, i usually get the lengthwise splits that dont close up, they just heal like that, they dont straighten out again, i may try the pliers or just go back to lst, i like that better honestly.

 

[jlt1202]

well i do crush them with my fingers i kind of work them back n forth too till they will bend and twist about halfway or 180 degrees around, and lay them over, i usually get the lengthwise splits that dont close up, they just heal like that, they dont straighten out again, i may try the pliers or just go back to lst, i like that better honestly.

doing this just makes the plant stronger over all because it make the plant replicate the cell wall to complinsate for your 'ruff' touch : ) i like to feel up my women once and a while

 

[crashnfool]

Hey All... just wanted to say thanks for all the advice....kinda busy these days with new business and stuff but this defol method sure kicks ass when done properly... I dont have time to post pics right now but I have been impressed with the results so far.. Lots of buds and and healthy plants... hoping for 10 oz plants this round.. Looks easily doable at this point... Keep on spreading the word...

 

[spring2012]

Bassman and all: Here are a few pics about 3 or 4 days after a proper defoil. I have been making more bends. I opted out of a PVC frame for bend support. As the beginning of this post says. Have your plans in place before you start this method! Next time I will be prepared with watering and support plans.

 

[BigIrishDoode]

looking spot on spring

 

[FarEye]

Very interesting thread so thanks for the info bassman and others.

I first read and subscribed to this thread during my first grow towards the back end of 2012. I was curious to try defoliation in flower due to having a canopy that was doing some serious light blocking but resisted as I was under the guidance of my mentor who is of the 'fan leaves = solar panels' school so I just tucked instead. Anyways, I did ok last time with Kush in a cupboard under a 600 HPS and using an NFT combined with very mild scrog setup. I did find though that the canopy was so thick that a lot of the lower down bud seemed under-developed come harvest time even with the daily tucking. Also fingers got so sticky every night that I feel I must have lost a lot of trichs due to so much handling of the plants - this is another reason I'd like to try, and have success with, the defoliation in flower.

So this time as I'm going it alone I thought I'd give some defoliation a try. I didn't come back to this thread until I was into flower but once stretch stopped I stripped under the net and decided to chop the well developed fan leaves off approx 60% of one of my two Jack Herers (not done all of em as I am still cautious of this though the theory sounds like it makes sense). I took the fan leaves over several days to try and keep things calm and it's been 5 days or so since I last took any (on approx day 30 of flower now) . I was kinda hoping / expecting to see a noticeable difference between those stems where I've taken the fans and opened the stuff below up to the light and those where I have not (tucking instead) but the bud on the stems relieved of their fans looks almost stalled over the last week. My question is should I have seen noticeable difference by now? It's hard to tell but if anything the unstripped stems look like the bud has developed in this time and the stripped ones don't look to have moved much at all.

All other factors such as climate etc. have been fine throughout the grow. I realise that a lot of this thread is about defoliation during veg too but hopefully my question is acceptable / relevant here too. Keep up the good work guys.


Off topic I gotta say the Jack smells mighty fine

FarEye

 

[BigIrishDoode]

i am wondering if your in hydro or something else i have played with this in coco and soil i dont think it works as well in other medias it seemed to stall and i got more from my regular lst plants, just my experience