Increasing yield with defoliation indoors: What's it mean? How to do it?

[Sunemperor]

I held back flowering til 4 weeks on my auto northern light/big bang but only because it was in my dwc with 3 other strains, I'm still a newbie so I let them get to much stretch and I'm using a 400w mh for veg/ hps for flowering pls I been following the Bass on defoliation it hasn't hurt her too bad I just passed day 21 of flowering, unfortunately I haven't started any journals just been observing & soaking up the knowledge!!!

 

[Bassman59]

Welcome Sunemperor! And welcome to 420mag! It's an honor to have your first posting here!

I don't know squadoosh about autos, but bid (Bigirishdude) does and has posted in this thread.

Hope it all works out great for ya!

 

[spring2012]

I held back flowering til 4 weeks on my auto northern light/big bang but only because it was in my dwc with 3 other strains, I'm still a newbie so I let them get to much stretch and I'm using a 400w mh for veg/ hps for flowering pls I been following the Bass on defoliation it hasn't hurt her too bad I just passed day 21 of flowering, unfortunately I haven't started any journals just been observing & soaking up the knowledge!!!

I would love to see a journal. Defoil on an auto is risky but I have done it too a point. I grew the big bang as well. How were you able to hold back and Auto from flowering automatically?

 

[Sunemperor]

I would love to see a journal. Defoil on an auto is risky but I have done it too a point. I grew the big bang as well. How were you able to hold back and Auto from flowering automatically?

I didn't even know honestly Spring2012 lol I held it back it was purely accidental cause I know nada bout auto flowering seeds they sent it as one of the freebies I mean I seen pistils starting to form and that it was going into pre flower, but than it didn't start forming but though I did do a transition week in between veg and flower where I slowly dropped hrs from 18/6 to 12/12 however I kinda had to speed that process up because it was getting so huge and blocking light to my other 3 babies that's how I even ended up on defoliation forum and thank Goodness I did from just my own observation of tree and bushes do a defoliation in veg on all my plants than I was able to continue it within flowering. Than. Landed here and man can I say y'all all are God send lol I learned so much from y'all positive critiquing and conversations, no more auto flower seeds after this smh I tried to clone it * double palm fist, and beside three statins is all my Lil 20x36x52 tent can muster to hold, promise I will start a grow journal and link you all my next grow as I'm already mid flowering....oh I have been taking pics just not as frequently as I should

 

[spring2012]

I didn't even know honestly Spring2012 lol I held it back it was purely accidental cause I know nada bout auto flowering seeds they sent it as one of the freebies I mean I seen pistils starting to form and that it was going into pre flower, but than it didn't start forming but though I did do a transition week in between veg and flower where I slowly dropped hrs from 18/6 to 12/12 however I kinda had to speed that process up because it was getting so huge and blocking light to my other 3 babies that's how I even ended up on defoliation forum and thank Goodness I did from just my own observation of tree and bushes do a defoliation in veg on all my plants than I was able to continue it within flowering. Than. Landed here and man can I say y'all all are God send lol I learned so much from y'all positive critiquing and conversations, no more auto flower seeds after this smh I tried to clone it * double palm fist, and beside three statins is all my Lil 20x36x52 tent can muster to hold, promise I will start a grow journal and link you all my next grow as I'm already mid flowering....oh I have been taking pics just not as frequently as I should

Cool! Start a journal we will come! You know man you could have done any light phase and she would have flowered when she wanted to! Autos are just that.. They automatically flower. A trait given by the Ruderellis plant. You can grow her 24/0 and she will flower automatically. They are fun and a great learning experience. They are getting better now with higher yields. Good for the lazy or low budget man. Like myself!!!

 

[JBonez]

Another grower who defoliates checking in...

I defoliate in Veg primarily, this spawns a huge number of grow sites that seem to grow at similar rates, vs the lower shoots all trying to catch the tops..

I throw em in bloom where I dont touch them for at least 4 weeks or until the plant stops vertical growth, then I pull all fan leaves that have a stem, but I leave all the smaller leaves near and int the bud..

If done properly in veg, the results will be increased yields, much like other methods of training the plant, I just find this method easier and more beneficial in the weight dept..

Not really trying to argue abot this topic, it works for me, and the results speak for themselves..

 

[Smokemupm8]

Well I was over zelous this time in Defoliation, as I LST, I also aim for even canopy - I usually get about 13 main branches of the same height each with large individual cola's..
My last grew well and reached 6'3ft x 4.5w, in her pot, I trimmed her but not too agressivly and some inner buds were lacklustre, So in an attempt to avoid that and gain size, I trimmed more and frequenlty.
This slowed her growth and now she s stopped at just over 4'5ft tall, same width, but yeah so the main cola's are 1ft shorter than last grow, I slowed her stretch down alot so she was actually about 1'8ft shorter in height.
You can see the height difference between its cola's and the top canopy. I use a 600w and it did struggle to reach the inner growth, but this was a tall plant so about 4.5ft of plant grew ok. With what was grown would have pulled very close to a pound in 15 weeks, I was hoping to do the same this time. But I estimate only 8oz dry now from this girl.
Next grow I will again Veg til 3.5/4ft then flip and only trim as I first did, as I hope to avoid stunting again. This is couple pics of first grow, and my current..

This is my last C99xPR LST, an impressive plant if grown well, and the size them cola's get is pretty cool And now my new grow, Same strain just heavily trimmed so shorter

She not far from Harvest now and the buds have gained alot, pistils are about 85% and cloudy/clear trichs.. I like the way this LSt setup works, the branch setup is mad

Later guys, Smokemup...

 

[s1ingblade]

Nice plants smoke +Reps

Bassman now that I know how lol +Reps for all the knowledge you have shared

 

[Smokemupm8]

Thanks Arizona Much appreciated mate.. Smokemup

 

[KidFrankie]

Hello everyone! I'm a brand new forum member and grower, about 3 weeks into 12/12 on my very first plant. I've been completely captivated by your thread on defoliation and how it can increase yield. I'm growing indoors in Coco coir with FoxFarms Nutrient trio, using CFL lights. I've had a small bit of nutrient burn and one minor accident with the lights, but the plant is still healthy overall. I'm already looking ahead to my next grow, but haven't decided on a strain yet. My first plant was just a mid seed I had saved and was able to germinate and turned out to be an indica. For my next grow I'm choosing between several strain seeds I purchased online. I have read that indicas take better to defoliation than sativas. Does this mean I should not even attempt defoliation on a sativa or mainly sativa hybrid? If so it may greatly affect my decision, since I have already seen increased bud production after my first defol session during 12/12. Any input or advice you can give me would be amazing.

Thanks,

KidFrankie

 

[Smokemupm8]

Hey Frankie,
Well Ive trimmed fairly heavily on my LST 'd plants, But if Im trying to remove a leaf cos it was blocking a bud shoot below - Ill take 1 leaf from two branches, so 2 leaves are taken, but one from each branch as I feel its less harm on the plant losing 1 leaf p/stalk. ITS NOT A FACT ITS JUST WHAT I DO!
But anyway, as I said, I took alot of leaf material and some branches that were stunted over the Veg and into flower.. Tho I tried to remove any branch if need be before flowering. Tho leaves here n there during flower will be fine. Plants are made to lose leaves and reproduce them so during Veg you will find that your plant will be fine.
When it comes to flower - Im a little more hesitant to take alot, unless as said its blocking buds - as they feed the cola's nugs and help store nutes/photosynth etc; so yeah, just try not to strip the plant or remove lots of foliage all at once, I prefer to scatter it a bit, BUT AGAIN THATs ME. Hope this eases ya mind.. Sativa s are tough plants

 

[Bassman59]

I really wouldnt attempt sativa with cfl's tbh. You'll nned so many lights surrounding the taller/skinnier plant. The heat will be rough too.

 

[KidFrankie]

I started with CFLs as an inexpensive start up, and also because the room I'm using doesn't really have proper ventilation so I was concerned about too much heat. Do you think there is a better option as far as lighting is concerned given that I'll only be growing 1 plant at a time? Sorry for asking kinda dumb questions, but I knew next to nothing going into it and am just trying to absorb any information I can like a sponge lol. You guys are far more advanced than me, but even the little tips I've been getting seem to have a positive impact on my plant.

Thanks,

KidFrankie

 

[Bassman59]

The issue with cfl's is heat and penetration really. With a larger plant, the cfl's just don't get a lot of penetration. So you need a shit-ton of them. That's when you start seeing real heat issues. And defoliation is used to get a lot more light throughout the entire plant.

Don't get me wrong I have used them. But I used them in a 4x4 or larger tent to supplement some light in the corners, or in a closet just to veg the girls.

 

[s1ingblade]

Hello everyone! I'm a brand new forum member and grower, about 3 weeks into 12/12 on my very first plant. I've been completely captivated by your thread on defoliation and how it can increase yield. I'm growing indoors in Coco coir with FoxFarms Nutrient trio, using CFL lights. I've had a small bit of nutrient burn and one minor accident with the lights, but the plant is still healthy overall. I'm already looking ahead to my next grow, but haven't decided on a strain yet. My first plant was just a mid seed I had saved and was able to germinate and turned out to be an indica. For my next grow I'm choosing between several strain seeds I purchased online. I have read that indicas take better to defoliation than sativas. Does this mean I should not even attempt defoliation on a sativa or mainly sativa hybrid? If so it may greatly affect my decision, since I have already seen increased bud production after my first defol session during 12/12. Any input or advice you can give me would be amazing.

Thanks,

KidFrankie

I'm way to much of a newbie at defoliation to comment, but wanted to say hello, nice to meet cha and welcome to 420mag, were all glad to have ya

 

[BigIrishDoode]

kid frankie..hello! i have some exp with cfls heres what i can say will work from my exp, you should use lst,scrog, topping,fimming, whatever you can to keep them short and compact,keep a canopy defol for light penetration, i would recommend an indica but have managed with very strechy sativas keep cfls within 3-4 inches of the canopy, try to make it easy to adjust them heres a link to a diy cfl light array i came up with that got me thru a couple grows other ppl added their input and diy ideas perhaps you will find something you can use, any way good luck,you are in the right place to learn all you need to grow some fine medicine!

 

[GigaGrew]

first rule of defoliation is that we are already breaking all the rules

its not quite enough to generalise between indica and sativa when it comes to defoliation sa you will get some sativas that love it and some that hate it, just as you will find indicas that dislike it.

the first serious factor in choosing genetics is choosing the type of high you want. im a sativa man all the way.
you also need to tighten up your strain selection by the grow enviroment you can provide it.
and then choosing a strain based on what techniquws you can use on it comes last in this list.

think of defol as nothing more than a tool, a tool in your toolbox along side topping and lst and LHM (light hours manipulation) and the like...and just like a normal toolbox, you dont take out a hammer to fix a fuse...but its good to still own the hammer

more specifically i can tell you that sativas in general can take defoliation just fine and if your looking for a sativa that is known for liking defol, then i can reccomend dela-haze......i ran one a while back and ive never seen a plant take so much abuse and still live.

 

[BigIrishDoode]

i guess i should have been a little more clear why i said indica, it was due to the fact that sativas are more likely to stretch alot, there are some good sativa dominate strains that dont stretch much, and with cfls as your lights you need all the control you can get!, gig brought up some really good points on defol i didnt really mention, im not an expert at it, still trying to figure out the method that works for me you never stop learning

 

[GigaGrew]

i forgot to mention i grew my dela using cfls too =)

one thing thats pretty state of the art, is ceramic metal halide 'spotlights'. in previous years, CMH only came in the same format as MH and HPS bulbs..but now you can get a version that looks the same as a cfl.

these new bulbs focus the light so its more of a straight beam (you can purchase several angle choices)
these are specifically of improvement when used with tropical sativas as they produce UV rays which are loved by plants that utilise THC-v .

these focused beams also deal with penetration issues. they still follow the rules of inverse square law, but because the beam is tightly focused you can pretend the bulb is 2 or 3 times more powerful than its rated wattage when it comes to effective range calculations =D

and yes. LST is pretty critical to use when growing a sativa with cfls or you will need many many bulbs and face the heat problems bassman mentioned...expect upto 7 ft tall plants when going sativa and in a big enough plant pot.

 

[1highman]

Well I just stripped 2 of my girls, I hope this works