OlderStoner - Indoor/Outdoor Grow

[KingJohnC]

If you fear that the pH in your soil is too high I would flush the pots with at least twice the volume of pH adjusted water as the pot size to return your pH to a proper range. you want 5.8 for hydroponic and soiless (peat moss and coco coir) and pH 6.5 for soil. I would also invest in a pH meter so you are able to properly adjust your pH.

 

[OlderStoner]

Thanks many times over for all the great advice. But once again I think I'm on the verge of screwing up another grow. Let me get right to the bad news...if it's bad news...I hope it's not.

I bought the Fox Farms nutes yesterday and mixed 1 tsp of Grow Big and 1 tblsp of Big Bloom in 1/2 gallon of rain water. I then got nervous and added another 20 oz of tap water to this to dilute it further because in the past I've had bad luck using too much ferts. The plants all looked fine setting out in the sunshine yesterday and I watered them liberally until the water just started to leak out the bottom of the pots. They stayed in the sunshine the rest of the day. Today it was raining all day so they stayed inside under the fluoros. And this is what I noticed tonight with some of the White Widow Feminized plants. There is a white something in the leaves of some the plants. Not all of them but two of the four White Widow Feminized are showing this pattern. I should mention that these photos make the stains look yellow more than white, but the stains are definitely not yellow, they are white.

The plant on the right in the comparison photo is supposed to be of the same strain as the one on the left. However, it not only not showing the white leaves, the leaves in it are much broader. I'm no expert but I cannot feel confident that these are the same strain....more on this in a moment. But can anyone please comment on these white leaves. This has me really afraid that even though I watered that mix down, something went madly wrong because these just showed up over night.

Now, the seeds I bought included three freebies, two of which were White Widow X. These two were planted at the same time as the other five seeds and they germinated first, a full 24 hours ahead of the other seeds. The have not only shown different traits, narrower leaves for one, but they have grown head and shoulders above the rest. And one of them has seven (7) fingers in the its 6th set of leaves, as well as much narrower leaves than the other. The other has only five fingers in its 6th set and the leaves are broader. May be no big deal but would this indicate the seeds are not necessarily of the same strain?

Now, here is the lineup photo which shows the various rates of growth. The white widow X's germinated about 24 hours before the next white widow feminized seeds, and about 48 hours ahead of the last two white widow feminized. The cotton candy which is small but looking very healthy and having very broad, dark green leaves. The one white widow feminized (with the black letters) is growing so slow and is looking very sickly. I may take it and plant it outside and just let it go. It either makes it or not. All of the plants were planted in soil from the same bag and received basically the same light exposure and ferts.

 

[Muskrat]

Subscribed. I have White Widow Fems on order, so I can learn a lot here.

 

[Muskrat]

As 68 year old stoner, I totally agree, that good weed makes your like with chronic pain worth living again. My only medication now, is the herb that I grow in my root cellar.
I'm pulling for you old stoner. Welcome aboard.

 

[AfricanGrower]

Okay I am going to try help you out here. It seems you went through the EXACT same thing I went through only just a couple of weeks ago. My seedlings started yellowing to a pale whitish color, especially from new growth! I will post pictures on here if you don't mind after this post.

>>>I bought the Fox Farms nutes yesterday and mixed 1 tsp of Grow Big and 1 tblsp of Big Bloom in 1/2 gallon of rain water. I then got nervous and added another 20 oz of tap water to this to dilute it

Okay based on the 'Soil Feeding Schedule' you are feeding at 1/2 strength during week 2, am I right? The full strength according to the chart is 2TBLSP of Big Bloom and 2tsp of Grow Big per 1 gallon of water. I think you might have gotten a full strength mix mix since you only used around .6 gallons (including the 20oz). This easily will lead to a nutrient lockout as it has happened to me in the past. I would flush out any plants you watered with this as soon as you can because it will only progress from here. But you may need to add a key ingredient to your water this time! I'll explain below.

>>>There is a white something in the leaves of some the plants. Not all of them but two of the four White Widow Feminized are showing this pattern. I should mention that these photos make the stains look yellow more than white, but the stains are definitely not yellow, they are white.

Okay the photos above are showing me signs of Magnesium deficiency. Yes, even the two White Widow X that you have there. Magnesium can be locked out by a couple of things. One would be an excess of Calcium, which I highly doubt. The other possibility is a slightly acidic soil between a pH of 2.5-6.5. This may be the culprit of your lockout of Mg, leading to the yellowing/whitening of your leaves. The other seedlings are showing late signs of it. My seedlings never got to your stage, as they started to pale from the center outward like yours. Gently feel your leaves between your fingers, do they feel 'glass-y' or 'dry'? This is another sign of this, especially in more mature plants like your WWXs. Notice the new growth, and how the green in between the veins is slightly paler than the rest of the leaf. These are early signs of a Mg deficiency in a mature plant. As it takes longer for an older plant to show signs of stress than a small seedling.

As I said before, slightly acidic water could be the cause of a Mg lockout and this could be due to your rainwater as mentioned in the previous post. Another reason you could be suffering from a Magnesium deficiency would be that rainwater (at 1-5 PPMs) would not contain any Micronutrients like Calcium and Magnesium. A rule of thumb to go by is if you used Distilled Water, Reverse Osmosis Water, or Rain Water you will need to supplement the plants with the lack of Ca and Mg every time you feed.

Now going back to the beginning, about flushing as soon as possible, I would add some Epsom Salt for now which is basically composed of Mg at about 1/2-1TBLSP per gallon.

But once again I cannot stress how important it is to know your pH before watering your plants. As you can see you could basically be locking out essential nutrients it needs to survive. In your case the FF nutrients might not have been the main source of your problem here, but a more basic one: your pH.

Please let me know if you have any questions Older Grower. I really want to see you get a successful harvest from this grow

 

[AfricanGrower]

These two show early signs of Mg deficiency, but never progressed as far along as yours did.

The first two below shows a Mg deficiency on a plant 3-4 weeks old, and the second photo shows a recovering Mg deficiency in mid growth of a 3 week old plant.

New growth and affected leaves all had a 'glass' like feeling to the touch. Almost a dry brittle feeling.

 

[KingJohnC]

here is a nutrient availability chart

 

[OlderStoner]

Thanks again everyone. I used the information on the Fox Farm products provided here and it was for week 2 and I used full strength, plus I diluted that with some tap water because I'm just so paranoid of using too many ferts. The rain water I gathered is showing ph around 7, but I don't trust this cheap meter. Will get a ph pen today when the stores open. First though I'm going to get some distilled water and stop using the rain water and will flush all the plants. I flushed the two which showed the worst signs last night but again with the rain water. I hate to think that's the source of it all because its the rainy season here and there's so much of it around to collect. After flushing how long should I wait to start putting the Fox Farm nutes back into the soil.

Now, one hour later I can report that I will have to stop using the rain water collected here. I tested the rain water with one of the ph test tablets this morning and the color of the water after it dissolved in the tube was almost a brownish color. Thinking that these tablets are only for testing soil and this was not accurate I tested some of the distilled water I purchased this morning. It came up a nice pale lime green color which almost perfectly matched the 7.0 reading on the ph color chart I have. So apparently these tablets can also accurately test water only samples. And apparently the rain water I'm collecting here is highly alkaline. So no more rain water used for these plants.

I flushed all the plants and then mixed about 3/4 tblsp of epsom salts in one of the gallons of spring water and added a little more of that water to the plants after they drained well from the initial flushing I gave them. Now the question becomes when to start adding ferts again and how much.

 

[KingJohnC]

I would only introduce 1/4 strength nutrients to your largest plants at your next watering, it is better to slowly add enough nutrients and increase the amount progressively over time. a pH of 7 is pH neutral, the pH scale ranges from 0-14 with 7 being neutral. I would use a small amount of pH down to adjust the rainwater to optimum pH for your plants.

 

[AfricanGrower]

>>>Thanks again everyone. I used the information on the Fox Farm products provided here and it was for week 2 and I used full strength

You are welcome Older! That information that was provided basically follows the Fox Farm schedule on their website HERE. As King mentioned, I would only introduce 1/8-1/4 strength nutes to your largest plants at the next watering. And remember to mix these measurements per gallon.

>>>First though I'm going to get some distilled water

Remember you will need to add some CaMg every time you water with distilled water as there is not not a significant amount contained in that water.

>>> I would use a small amount of pH down to adjust the rainwater to optimum pH for your plants.

Hey King, to add to comment on this, I don't think it would be necessary for him to adjust his pH if using neutral distilled water. I feel that acceptable pH ranges .2-.3 units each way so with the added nutes and CaMg that would sufficiently bring pH down into that acceptable range. Plus the less stuff (acidic pH down in this case) you add to the water the better your plants will react overall.

 

[Techman]

I agree with King and AfricanGrower easy on the nutes until you find that FF sweet spot. If budget is a concern, I'd stick with the rain water and buy some cal/mag. You will be using a lot of water.
I also use rainwater (ph6.5). I have to add lots of cal/mag and during flowering extra phosphorus.

Good Luck.

 

[OlderStoner]

Okay, this hobby is getting expensive. But I broke down today and purchased a Eco Testr ph1 device. Paid a whopping $75 US for it. I took it home and followed the instructions for conditioning before the first use which was to let the testing tip soak in tap water for at least 1 hour before using it. That done I went straight to that supply of rain water I had been using and it came in at 9.8, Mind you this is rain water which while it may have drained off of my Spanish tile roof and into a plastic bucket was clear as a bell, tasted good enough to drink. So then I went inside and took one of the just purchased gallon jugs of distilled water, which if I understand this process right, should have tested at 7.0. Well it came in at 8.4.

The instructions which came with the device say it was factory calibrated but that occasional calibration is needed. So I followed the directions for calibrating it but clearly I'm doing something wrong. The nice lady at the hydroponics shop where I bought this device is not there now but she should be there in the morning and I will take it to her and ask for assistance. She told me all about using her test device so she sounds informed on how this product should work. For now the plants are okay, but showing no signs of change other than the soil is very wet from being flushed this morning. A process which the lady at the hydro shop highly discouraged me from doing ever again. She favored the process of getting the ph of the water right and just letting that process work. I also bought a bottle of ph Down, the concentrate. But I will wait until I know what I really have here as far as the ph levels of the water I'm using. Right now everything is testing much higher than I anticipated and if this device is accurate, which at this moment I doubt, but that would explain the problems I'm seeing.

 

[danklover79]

She told you not to flush?!! It sounds to me like she is not very informed as far as growing, which is the case with the hydro store I go to as well. I usually research a product first, then go there, so I'm informed beforehand. The guy who is usually in there doesn't know anything about most of the products, he's just a clerk who makes minimum wage. No matter what that woman told you, flushing is good, pretty much necessary, in my opinion. As for the meter, do they not a General Hydroponics ph test kit, with the drops, and the vial? Unless you are doing hydro, a meter is not needed, the ph test kit works fine.

 

[AfricanGrower]

Nice buy buy there Older! I completely understand what you mean by 'throwing so much money' into a grow. I ended up spending close to $400 for my whole setup, but it's only a fraction of the cost others invest!

As for not flushing, I agree with Dank, a flush is nothing but beneficial to a cannabis plant in helping prevent salt build up in your medium and helping promote a cleaner smoke at the end of harvest (flushing all the chemicals out of your plant). I can only imagine how you brought it up to the clerk, seeing as I would always walk into a hydro store pretending that I don't know squat about about growing only to avoid telling them that I'm growing CANNABIS I'm curious, what plant did you tell the lady at the hydro store you are growing?

>>> Unless you are doing hydro, a meter is not needed, the ph test kit works fine.

They definitely do work Dank, but I must disagree because you will always get that feeling of certainty that your pH is EXACTLY where you want it to be with a meter. I feel as if when I was growing in soil, if I had a pH pen I would have been able to cancel out potential problems my plant may be going through much faster and with much more confidence (less guessing/waiting for your plant to show signs of stress) I think it was a wise decision that Older bought the pH pen given his current situation where he is dealing with an apparent pH fluctuation problem.

And one last note Older, I would definitely take it back tomorrow and get it properly calibrated before trying it again. Bought distilled water should not stray anywhere pass 6.9-7.1, unless it has dissolved solids (PPMs) in the water.

Take care man, AG

 

[danklover79]

I agree that a meter is a more accurate tool, but didn't they have one cheaper than 75 bucks?! I think I have found them for around 40 online, and I saw one at a hydro store for 45. I agree with AG though, if the expense can be incurred, it is a good investment, as long as it is properly maintained.

 

[Techman]

Take some rainwater with you to the hydro store. This hobby is like owning a boat....., But once you get it rigged, and know the handling you will spend many happy days on the "high" seas.....

 

[OlderStoner]

Thanks again to all. I think this nice lady is very knowledgeable. I can tell by the few talks I've had with her she knows her stuff. And I'm pretty sure she is the owner of this place. As for what plants she thinks I'm growing, trust me on this, I've been very careful not to say too much but it's obvious she knows exactly what I'm growing. She's being very cool about it, very professional I should add. It's crazy that just 10 or 15 years ago I remember going into a head shop in another state I used to live in. And they had water pipes all over the place, but if you even said the words "water" and "pipe" in the same breath, they would ask you to leave the store. This is one crazy mixed up world we live in where personal choice is often dictated by foolishness. I think she will be more than happy to help me with this device and if it's defective she will either replace it or give me a refund. This was the cheapest device she had. This store has loads of supplies, not just nutes, but a full array of lights and fans, etc.. .some really cool indoor tents and the full setups if you've got the money and time to invest. She did mention to me that she had a ph pen and keeps it calibrated. As for her opinion on flushing I don't think she was talking about the last two weeks of flowering. I really believe she meant that she would not flush young plants like this but merely use the right ph water to get the soil in shape. She seemed to be speaking with experience on this topic and she's very friendly so for now I trust that she's not just trying to sell me anything. I went ahead with this purchase because it will probably take a week to get something shipped on-line. If the device cost $40 or even $25, add in the shipping and it's not much savings. And considering I have a problem that needs attention now I figure why not make the investment. Because this time I'm going for a good yield which I can enjoy for personal use as well as medical use for relief of joint pain. I'm not getting any younger you know.

 

[OlderStoner]

Take some rainwater with you to the hydro store. This hobby is like owning a boat....., But once you get it rigged, and know the handling you will spend many happy days on the "high" seas.....

Thanks techman, but I hate to use the word boat...remember that stands for "Bust Out Another Thousand".

 

[AfricanGrower]

>>>I agree that a meter is a more accurate tool, but didn't they have one cheaper than 75 bucks?!

Yes they have them for even cheaper online. Around $15-$25 including shipping. The only reason why I did go for the cheaper pens rather than the $40-$80 ones is because I figured that I could buy a cheap one now to last me only the duration of my grow, then invest in a higher end 'tri-meter' that goes for around $100-$150.

 

[AfricanGrower]

>>>but it's obvious she knows exactly what I'm growing.

I laughed out loud when I read this man!

>>>She's being very cool about it, very professional I should add.

That is a cool lady though! I would definitely appreciate her advice if she is talking from experience! As for flushing, it can be done several times during your grow to no ill effect on your plant. I always flushed at least twice during vegetative growth and a couple more in flowering. It really does help prevent the buildup of nutrients in your soil, which might lead to irregularities in your grow. And a BIG yield requires a healthy-as-can-be plant!

P.S. Most items ship free inside of the US and Pueto Rico