OlderStoner - Indoor/Outdoor Grow

[OlderStoner]

Took a quick trip up to the hydro store again and the nice lady was there. Again she was very helpful and I told her what happened with the tester. She went into the back and brought out some guaranteed 7.0 buffer solution used for calibrating ph testers like mine. We tested it and it read 7.1 then settled right down to 7.0. So that means this tester is giving me correct readings. I really needed to know that to justify the expense for this device but now it also resolves the problem of the rain water and more important the distilled water I purchased. Again the rain water tested at 9.8 and the distilled water right out of the container tested at 8.4 and above. She told me that just because it's distilled water doesn't mean it will have a 7.0 ph level and she's right. I believe this device is working properly and the readings I'm now getting with it are accurate ones.

The pots are still soaking wet from yesterday's flushing so I'm going to wait before adding anymore water. But I will add enough phDown to get the ph of the water somewhere between 5.5 and 6.5 before using it on the plants. I will water one more time with just water and then on the next watering I will add the Fox Farm nutes at 1/4 strength. The plants are enjoying total sunshine in about 86° F with a nice breeze blowing.

And now, shhhhhh! They are watching me. I just went on weather.com to check the forecast and what popped up in one of the ad windows on the right...an ad from Amazon.com for ph testers, the model that I bought was one that flashed by, the price was $45 or about $30 less than what I paid for it. The price difference is not what I'm worried about as much as I'm concerned that no matter what we do on-line these days, we're being watched.

 

[TanR]

OlderStoner,

I've had that same experience of adds for things grow related popping up in unexpected places. Because of that, I've adopted the practice performing all searches and even visiting this site using the IE "InPrivate" feature. Eliminated those unsettling occurrences.

 

[Muskrat]

Took a quick trip up to the hydro store again and the nice lady was there. Again she was very helpful and I told her what happened with the tester. She went into the back and brought out some guaranteed 7.0 buffer solution used for calibrating ph testers like mine. We tested it and it read 7.1 then settled right down to 7.0. So that means this tester is giving me correct readings. I really needed to know that to justify the expense for this device but now it also resolves the problem of the rain water and more important the distilled water I purchased. Again the rain water tested at 9.8 and the distilled water right out of the container tested at 8.4 and above. She told me that just because it's distilled water doesn't mean it will have a 7.0 ph level and she's right. I believe this device is working properly and the readings I'm now getting with it are accurate ones.

The pots are still soaking wet from yesterday's flushing so I'm going to wait before adding anymore water. But I will add enough phDown to get the ph of the water somewhere between 5.5 and 6.5 before using it on the plants. I will water one more time with just water and then on the next watering I will add the Fox Farm nutes at 1/4 strength. The plants are enjoying total sunshine in about 86° F with a nice breeze blowing.

And now, shhhhhh! They are watching me. I just went on weather.com to check the forecast and what popped up in one of the ad windows on the right...an ad from Amazon.com for ph testers, the model that I bought was one that flashed by, the price was $45 or about $30 less than what I paid for it. The price difference is not what I'm worried about as much as I'm concerned that no matter what we do on-line these days, we're being watched.

You're right about that my friend. There are adds on this page, right now from two companies I have bought from. MJ Seeds Canada and Magical Butter. Both of which I give a top rating; so far. Targeted Advertising is here.
BTW, I bought my WW seeds from MJ Seeds and they recommend keeping the plants in the dark for the last two weeks of flowering. Has anybody here heard of this. I've heard two days before, but not two weeks.

 

[OlderStoner]

This is the photo from this evening. They spent all day out in the sun and a brisk wind. I know the wind was hard on them but as big as the two White Widow X's are getting they are going to need some stiffness to their trunks. The nute problem seems to have resolved itself. I put only water with Epsom salt in them today. All day in the sun really dried them up. The two White Widow X's had almost no weight to them at all so I gave them water too.

Now, back to that ph testing device I bought. It is true that this morning when a very experienced professional grower tested it with me in a guaranteed 7.0 buffer solution the device read right at 7.0. So back home I went and the very same rain water that I measured the day before at +9 was now showing 6.5. I mean this is the very same water in the very same container. The only thing different is it has set outside for an additional 24 hours. Anyway, that's the perfect ph level...so being skeptical I tested it again and got 6.7. I then tested the very same distilled water I tested the day before and it is now show 7.4, not the +8 readings I was getting with the device last night. Now, the device is either whacko or does water change its ph with exposure to ambient conditions over 24 hours?

Okay, now to the subject of taking cuttings. The White Widow X's are growing like mad. The top set of leaves are massive and not proportional at all to the lower set of leave. The stem from the last node to the top leaves is only about 1.25". I attribute the close node spacing to the 24 hour lighting I'm giving them plus, they have been left out in the sunshine as many times as I can let them stay out there. I did notice a little heat stress (leaf curling) in one of them so I'll be careful and they do come in at night into 77° F temps. But I'm thinking of topping the two White Widow X's tomorrow. I will get the twin colas I want and keep them from racing away in height. This causes the lights inside to have to be tilted to allow the tall plants on one end and the shorter plants on the other end. I will of course use something to prop up the shorter ones so I don't have to tilt the lights too much. But I do have that covered with some really nice pullies which allow me to adjust the height of the lights quickly and easily. Another neat thing the nice lady at the hydro shop sold to me. BTW...the hydro shop is one of three in this chain in the state. They offer franchises I noticed on the door as I went in today. This would be a nice retirement business which I would seriously consider. When I retire in a another 15 years perhaps the whole subject of legalization will be resolved by then. Wishfully thinking.

 

[OlderStoner]

OlderStoner,

I've had that same experience of adds for things grow related popping up in unexpected places. Because of that, I've adopted the practice performing all searches and even visiting this site using the IE "InPrivate" feature. Eliminated those unsettling occurrences.

I work in technology...trust me on this. While they do not literally track everything you do with human eyes, they do track everything you do with electronic eyes. And if they want to use it or find it suspicious they can pull it up for a full review with only a moment's notice and without a warrant. There is no such thing as privacy on the Internet.

And now back to the grow. Here is a photo of one of those White Widow X plants. This is the biggest of all seven plants after 22 days. It's almost 10" tall. I want to top this one and take the cutting and clone it.

 

[AfricanGrower]

But I'm thinking of topping the two White Widow X's tomorrow. I will get the twin colas I want and keep them from racing away in height. This causes the lights inside to have to be tilted to allow the tall plants on one end and the shorter plants on the other end. I will of course use something to prop up the shorter ones so I don't have to tilt the lights too much. But I do have that covered with some really nice pullies which allow me to adjust the height of the lights quickly and easily. Another neat thing the nice lady at the hydro shop sold to me.

Great thinking there Older! I would do the same thing if height was an issue (I actually did top/fim 3 2 week old seedlings just the other day) and depending on how many times you top during vegetative growth, your yield will increase exponentially

Those pulleys really do come in handy when trying to adjust things EXACTLY where you want them! This hydro lady is becoming a very useful asset to your grow

 

[KingJohnC]

I would not keep any plant I wanted alive in the dark for 2 weeks, must be a miss print.

 

[Muskrat]

I would not keep any plant I wanted alive in the dark for 2 weeks, must be a miss print.

Assumed the same thing, but decided to try it on one of two Sativa Diablo ready for harvest next week. It has been in the dark for almost a week and it does seem to have fatter buds, more trichomes with a few turning amber. It's definitely not behind anyway. I'll reserve judgment until I talk to MJ.

 

[Muskrat]

Assumed the same thing, but decided to try it on one of two Sativa Diablo ready for harvest next week. It has been in the dark for almost a week and it does seem to have fatter buds, more trichomes with a few turning amber. It's definitely not behind anyway. I'll reserve judgment until I talk to MJ.

Here is MJ seeds statement on white widow:

To get the most out of the White Widow’s yield before harvest, you can try to turn off all the lights altogether during the last two weeks of its flowering cycle. The plant will react to the sudden change by preventing its flowers from re-growth and produces more crystals to protect its flowers. The extra crystals produced this way will create a better more potent harvest.

Still just an opinion. No evidence. Still reserving judgement.

 

[OlderStoner]

Thanks to all the great advice from this thread the nute problem has been resolved. The plants are moving along and looking great. Two of the white widow feminized plants seem to have gone dormant with very little growth but still they are growing. The other two are moving along but again at 22 days I was expecting these plants to be taller. In fact, none of the white widow feminized are any taller than 4". The cotton candy is looking very healthy and it's about 6" tall. It's leaves are very broad and full looking.

Now the white widow X's are zooming. They are approaching 12" tall, both of them, and the node distances are less than 2" each. These seeds germinated 25 days ago. The top leaves are massive compared to the other leaves. I will top these plants this week. I'm waiting on that last node to get a little more growth so the clones will have a good stalk to start with. The other 5 plants are no where near being ready to top. All the soils appear to be equal, I have given them all about the same treatment and amount of light. I really liked setting them outside in the direct sunshine but the last few days and the next foreseeable week has temps up in the 90's here and I noticed some heat stress (curling leaves) in the big white widow X plants. So until it cools off, I'm leaving them indoors. I move them in and out because it's easy while they are still small but soon I will have to transplant these into their bigger 5 gallon containers which means moving them...and more important, keeping them camouflaged is going to be difficult.

One other thing about the white widow X's. One of them has seven fingered leaves in it's top and the other only has five. Would that mean it's a different strain?

Last night the two white widow X's and the Cotton Candy were given a full drink of water which contained the Fox Farms nute mix from this weekend but watered down to 1/4 strength along with the water which contained the Epsom salts (1 tblsp to 1 gal ratio). I checked the ph and it was 6.5, which should be perfect for this soil and this grow. The remaining 4 pots were not watered because the soil there is still moist from this weekend's watering.

I will have to make some more adjustments to the grow room soon to handle the increased height of the X's and to start getting setup for the flowering stage which will probably begin in another 4-5 weeks.

 

[OlderStoner]

Today is day 30 of this grow. The seeds arrived and were planted on 9/9/2013. In anticipation of growth I have moved the plants from inside of the closet to the interior of the bedroom. I constructed a lightweight frame of 2" Sch 40 PVC pipe that covers most of the square footage in this room. It goes all the way to the ceiling just in case I end up with some tall plants. I will of course revisit the lighting on this but for now I'm staying focused with the 2 48" fluoro fixtures and white poster board to reflect the lighting back. This weekend I plan on building a frame to mount three, possibly four of those fluoro fixtures and then make a shroud from plywood that I can install some fans on and then hang some Panda film to make this area into a grow area for the clones. Soon I will make a purchase of 2 600 watt HPS/MH fixtures which I will suspend from this same PVC frame on the other end. It will take a little more logistics to work all this out, but I want to have a flowering area for the big ladies and keep the fluoros for clones. I also installed a timer tonight to move the plants from 24 hours to 18/6. The plants vary in height from 12" to 3". I think one of these plants is sick or just has bad genes. I will probably transplant it out in the backyard and just let it go. If it makes it fine, but if not I'd rather use the space indoors for more clones.

The fert situation seems stable. I watered the big White Widow X's this morning with a little food but mostly water. The pots are almost dry again this evening so I lightly misted all of the plants with 6.7 ph tap water, no nutes. Now this brings me back to the ph meter I bought this weekend. I am noticing that the same water I measured at 6.5 ph last night now reads 8.0. All it did was sit in a plastic jug on the kitchen counter top for 24 hours. The rain water which I keep outside which had a 7.4 reading last night is now showing +8 readings. Is it normal for water to change it's ph without anything being added to it...that is nothing physically added to it. Who knows what's in the air these days and exposure to UV and heat for 24 hours. I'm also noticing that phDown concentrate is extremely strong. A 1/2 gallon of water that showed 8.4 ph on this meter was tested again after I aded only a 1/2 tsp to it read 2.5 ph. I diluted it with more tap water which was showing 6.7 ph and the water in the jug still measured only 3.0 ph. I'm learning to be careful with these chemicals.

The White Widow X's are turning into giants way ahead of the other plants. The cotton candy is small but looking really healthy and it's at it's 23rd day, but still only about 6" tall. There is one of the white widow feminized which is about 5" tall and looking really strong. And when I compare it to ShurbHub's Lemon Kush photos it looks awfully similar. I don't want to cast any dispersions on Herbies Head Shop but the difference between this plant and the other white widow feminized is vast. And the difference between the two white widow X's is also vast, even though there is something in their genes which seems to turn them into giants. About 11 years ago I grew a 5 meter mama in my backyard. She took 9 months to get there but she was a real giant. The buds turned out pathetic though. I really was going for that extreme high I got from the White Widow smoke I tried in Amsterdam way back when. Just hope there is good quality out of this grow this time.

I'm way over my budget on this grow. What I've spent thus far I could have bought an oz of killer hydro...that is if I could find it. I know they're out there but I am still cautious about walking up to young folks on the beaches when I smell them smoking it and ask if they can get me some. Too many rip-offs and scams out there. Still, I have the big lights with fans and duct work to buy yet. Plus I have to figure out a way of camouflaging the vents out the lower part of the window. So much to do and all in hopes of having some great smoke for Xmas and New Years.

I'm pretty sure I'll end up topping the White Widow X's by this weekend and starting them cloning. I want to clone that cotton candy one as well, but it's still several weeks out before I can take any cuttings.

 

[stealthgrow]

Looking great Olderstoner, they are moving right along. 1 tip for measuring the PH Up or Down, like you said a little goes a long way so what I do is use a medicine dropper/plunger you get out of childrens advil or tylenol. They usually have 1ml measurements on them so makes measuring the amount of PH Up or Down much easier.
Going over budget is my nemesis so far for my grow also , but I'm all set up now for the next couple years except for nutes and a couple other minor things.

Good Luck.

 

[danklover79]

I use an insulin syringe with the point broken off, works really well for me, but a dropper would work well.

 

[OlderStoner]

Can anyone comment for me on the ph meter? It seems strange to me that a container of water measures 6.5 in the morning and then 24 hours later it measures +8 ph. It only sat there on the kitchen counter top. And the rain water stored outside went up in ph as well. I can understand the ph going up outside because something, air, more rain, etc... may have fell into it. But I hate to think I blew $75 on this meter and it's erratic readings could cause me to hose up this grow.

 

[KingJohnC]

if you are using tap water the calcium buffering effect causes the pH to rebound back up. your meter is most likely accurate.

 

[OlderStoner]

Thanks to all for the great advice given here, this is by far the best and so far healthiest grow I've ever done. The ph checked water must be doing the trick because even the little dinky one which I thought was sick or had bad genes is really starting to take flight. The Cotton Candy has increased its rate of growth too. The other three white widow feminized are showing increased growth as well. Now those White Widow X's are soaring. The node spacing has increased and that might be because I'm not putting them out in the sun because it's just too hot and one day I noticed one them showing heat stress (leafs curling like canoes). But these two are well up over 12" tall. One of them has top leaves which are so massive it looks totally unproportional to all the others. Honestly I'm getting nervous that one is going to turn out to be a male plant. I've installed a really nice digital timer for the lights and they are now on 18/6. The timer works perfectly and it was only $16 at Walmart.

I have not given them any nutes except for a very watered down mix which was left from last week when I seemed to have started a nute problem. This weekend I'm building a bigger rack to hold more fluoro light fixtures and hang a shroud to seal off the veg area in anticipation of flowering stage which won't start for at least another 2-3 weeks. That will give me time to design and purchase the big 600 watt setups for use later. I think too I will do the Scrog thing too. I really don't want 8 foot plants in this room though there is room for plants of that height. And I'm afraid if I don't top these X's pretty soon they are going to hit the ceiling eventually. This weekend will also see them get their next feeding...and again I'm going really light on the mix, per the Fox Farm outline for week four (3 tsp Grow Big and 1/4 tsp Open Sesame per gal) and I will make sure the water is no more than 6.5 ph.

I picked up some bigger pots tonight as well and this weekend will also see the X's transplanted. I can see that it will only be 2 weeks at the most that all these plants will have to go into bigger pots. I picked more of the organic potting mix, some high quality top soil, and a bag of Perlite. I'll mix this up with some blood meal and now I have a question about Milorganite. I picked up a big bag of this tonight because the shrubs and my lawns love the stuff. Yes, I know what it's made from (thank you very much) but what is the consensus on throwing a handful of Milorganite into a 3 gallon soil mix. Hey it's organic.

There's no doubt now that all seven of these seedlings are making good progress. I was about to give up on that very dwarfed one but tonight as I looked at it, it's like a different plant now. The watering and light misting I gave them last night, as well as I actually talk to them, must be working right.

I will cut the X's this weekend too and make at least two, maybe three clones from each. That will give me a total of 13 plants to nurse along and I will cull from there depending on what sexes show up. The white widow feminized are supposed to end up fems, but only time will tell. I'd like to take enough clones slowly to stretch this grow out into a much longer period to amortize the investment in lights and nutes I've put into this grow. Also this weekend I will get another batch of photos to post. I'd like to show the comparison between what are supposed to be the same strain of seeds. There is a noticeable difference in some of these any you'll see that in the next photos I post.

I think we can also say that with this setup the fluoros are proving their worth at least in the seedling and this early part of the veg stage. I've done complete grows with fluoros and if I thought it would really produce killer buds I stick with them. But I can't help but believe that the flowering stage is going to need some kick in the tail and unlike last time where I used the sunshine a lot and ended up with bug eggs under the leaves, I want to keep these indoors as much as possible. And that reminds me that I need to pick up some fly strips. I've already started noticing those pesky little gnats flying around in the grow room.

 

[AfricanGrower]

Good to hear from you buddy! I am glas everything is working out smoothly for you. A couple of comments below

>>>the little dinky one which I thought was sick or had bad genes is really starting to take flight.

This...

>>>The Cotton Candy has increased its rate of growth too.

...this

>>>The other three white widow feminized are showing increased growth as well.

...this

>>>Now those White Widow X's are soaring.

...AND this are all results I was expecting after you dialed in that jumpy pH of yours! I'm glad you are seeing the benefits of having the 'little things' in order because as you see they end up affecting the whole grow eventually! Your plants are going to keep on growing at that rate as long as the pH stays in a place where their roots can uptake the optimal amount of every nutrient without deficiencies or lockouts!

>>>...and again I'm going really light on the mix, per the Fox Farm outline for week four (3 tsp Grow Big and 1/4 tsp Open Sesame per gal) and I will make sure the water is no more than 6.5 ph.

This is perfect, the bigger your girls get, you can start slowly increasing the strength of nutes you feed it in order to keep up with growth, but I still wouldn't go past 75% strength, knowing the concentration of these FF nutes.

>>>The timer works perfectly and it was only $16 at Walmart.

Nice find there. Is it a digital timer or analog (the one with a dial and 30min intervals)?

>>>I think too I will do the Scrog thing too. I really don't want 8 foot plants in this room though there is room for plants of that height.

It is great that you decided to go with this, as you will come to see, the benefits of a scrog a=can far superceed a regular grow. None of those little popcorn buds all over, but more even growth making it possible to have all those potential 'popcorn buds' to turn into massive main colas Here is a thread of a fellow grower, Light Addict, who by far is the best grower I ahve seen to manipulate a plants growth to exactly HIS dimensions:TUTANKHARMON PYRAMID SEEDS-400hps He has well over 100 main tops with ONE plant no taller than 4-5 ft at the most! There are some really good techniques you can learn there. I am also doing a SCROG in my grow as well. Check out my signature at the bottom of the post if your interested!

>>>The white widow feminized are supposed to end up fems, but only time will tell.

To note, FEM seeds also have the possibility (genetics) to turn into an hermaphrodite, but never a male!

>>>And that reminds me that I need to pick up some fly strips. I've already started noticing those pesky little gnats flying around in the grow room.

Those fly strips won't do much damage to those gnats if they are fungal! Fungus gnats are known to lay their eggs in soil and their larvae feed on your roots until its mature! Those sticky strips won't do any good for the ones that fly, but you could try NEEM OIL on your soil or even placing a potato wedge on top of the soil to attract all the potential larvae that is hiding.

You can find more info on PEST PROBLEMS HERE: PLANT and PEST PROBLEMS

>>>Also this weekend I will get another batch of photos to post. I'd like to show the comparison between what are supposed to be the same strain of seeds. There is a noticeable difference in some of these any you'll see that in the next photos I post.

I was about to ask this. WE WANT PHOTOS :: I'll be checking in again for an update!

 

[OlderStoner]

Thanks AG. Now the trick is to keep them healthy. I just read the thread on Pests and Problem Plants you referenced and it was very informative. Having to get used to how strong this stuff is the key. The phDown concentrate for example. I found that just a few drops will dramatically affect and entire gallon of water. And about that timer, yes it's digital. I was in the room this morning when it silently came on and powered up the lights and the fan. It came on at exactly the correct time. It's programmable with daily, weekly settings, up to 16 different programs. And this one has a three prong, ground connection. So many I've used in the past only had the two prong outlet. It's fairly easy to setup and since all I needed was simple 18 on and 6 off, it was a snap. I'm heading out for more supplies this evening to get the room rigged up and ready for flowering stage which should start in another 3-4 weeks.

 

[OlderStoner]

This weekend brought major changes to the grow room and the plants. I needed more lights so I built a new apparatus using some OSB plywood, five 48" fluoro lights and some hardware.

I painted one side of the 2' x 4' plywood satin white to reflect all the light I could back towards the plants. Then I attached 5 new 48" fluorescent fixtures. Each one holds 2 of the new T12 40 watt bulbs. That gives me a total of 400 watts in that 8 sq ft area. I will eventually add some outriggers to suspend some Panda Film to make the area of light to about 12 or 16 sq ft. I suspended it from the PVC frame I built last weekend.

The plants are moving right along. Today I set them out in the sun for the day and gave them all a good drink of water using week 4 of the Fox Farm outline, but only at half strength and I gave the soil just enough to get wet. Then I used some plain 6.5 ph water and gave them all a good soaking. The sun dried most of this up today as I can see the soil dried out quickly but it's still moist.

I also transplanted the two big White Widow X's as they were getting too big for their pots. The biggest one I topped and placed the cutting into a cup with potting soil. Gave it a little Root Hormone and water, placed a plastic lid on it and set it under a small fluoro desk light all night long. At first I thought I'd lost it because it looked like it croaked. But this morning the leaves were reaching up to the light. I talked to it and breathed as much Co2 on it as I could. So it looks like I've just increased the number of plants under my care by one. I will make more cuttings from the other plants later.

This is the big White Widow X in it's new 12 diameter pot. I soaked the soil after transplanting with 6.5 ph water but the runoff read 7.3. I'm a little worried about that and will have to watch it closely. Notice it's recent haircut.

This is the other white widow X in it's new 12" diameter pot. Same situation with the ph in the runoff. Will watch these closely.

The other plants are doing fine. But they are not anywhere near as tall as the X's. The four white widow feminized are doing well even the one which just last week looked so sick and poorly. The cotton candy is a slow grower but it's growing well. The leaves are such a dark deep green. I'm afraid I over did the nitrogen with the blood meal when I first mixed the potting soil they are in.

 

[Muskrat]

Looking really nice stoner. I hope my white widow do as well. If they ever pop out of the peat pots.