Olive oil extract update

[PsyCro]

It's 4 AM here and I really need to go to sleep. Can we pick this up tomorrow?

Haha, i suppose it's our duty to do so!

Concerning your daughter, try growing a high cbd strain. I mix one version of oil, 70% Tutankhamon and 30% CBD Nordle (cooked separately as cbd needs more temp.) , along with one drop of essential oil for every 10ml of oil. The essential oils i use are Lemongrass for myrcene, and Lavender for linalool. This combo for example at the right dosage is very relaxing, more so than straight Tut which is sativa dominant.

You could try mixing some cbd oil with some good indica for example, which would offset the thc effect.

And yeah, as far as tacking and science is concerned, we ain't done yet!

 

[SweetSue]

I've been busy all day long with finishing up my extended vacation and didn't have time to do more than read your first link on the BBB. I've been here for almost seven weeks visiting my closest friend who had me flown to Phoenix to keep me close to her while I deal with the end of the worst part of grieving the death of my husband who passed in late June. We hadn't seen each other for seven years, as I focused all my attention on keeping my beloved alive with as much quality of life as I could possibly muster.

It wasn't until he was in the death spiral that I discovered concentrated cannabis oil. You can appreciate then my passion for the oil now. I'm compelled to learn all I can to be able to authoritatively spread the news and hopefully spare others the devastation I watched destroy his body.

For the next couple days though I need to focus on my dear friend. She's been the recipient of my need to shower someone with love and passion for this past seven weeks and she's already hurting that I'm going to be going home on Wednesday. I probably won't have time to dedicate myself to this study you and I've begun until I get back home. I did contact Cajun today about the info on tacking, but he can't take the time to dedicate himself to the answer I'm seeking from him because he only has a phone to type into and it would take hours he can't afford right now. What he did tell me was that I was on the right track. I think he gets some perverse joy in making me find my own way. Hahaha!

I believe what he refers to is the idea that it's the slowly building up of the tolerance levels coupled with multiple smaller doses that are making the biggest difference. It makes such sense to me. I'm going to bake a pan of brownies as soon as I get home. My first dose will be a full brownie in celebration of surviving seven weeks without, but following that I want to try smaller doses of them too, spread out over a day to see if I can get the same effect of the lack of overwhelming euphoria. After reading that singular link I'm convinced that no matter which delivery method one chooses, aside from smoking or vaping which hit the system like a house on fire, you can control the euphoric effect and get the medicinal benefits, because as we both admit, one derives medicinal benefit from any cannabis-based medication.

That means it becomes more important, IMO, to use methods that will increase bioavailibility, so I'll be adding mango into my regular diet and making the effort to have a spoonful of coconut oil about 30 minutes before every dose.

I'm growing Barny's Critical Cure and CBD CrewCBD Med GOM 1.0 for the daughter. The Critical Cure was Cajun's recommendation for her. He encouraged me to stay away from sativas for her initially. Thank you so much for the idea of adding essential oils. I'd not have thought of that. I have lavender on hand and can get lemongrass at the local grocery. What an excellent idea. I can't wait to get to my first harvest so I can whip up a batch of the olive oil extraction. You have me so intrigued about this.

I'm growing an auto Tutankhamon for myself. It was too good to pass up. I have much to learn about mixing the strains for oil production. I'm in excellent health myself, so I can get away with oil that's straight sativa. I also have Nordle seeds coming in. It warms my heart to know I chose so well. I'm feeling like a novice again, growing for oil. It's nice to have so many talented and experienced guides as I enter this new phase of my life.

I'm in the running for MOTY and going a little nuts waiting for the clock to wind down. Fifteen minutes to go and I'm still in the lead, but only by three votes. The prize package includes an unbelievable amount of lights that would take this perpetual healing garden of mine to a whole new level, so I'm just a bit distracted. Sorry to talk your ear off, but I'm also thankful you've been here to distract me. I'm going to go sit against a virtual wall in a safe space one of my friends here lets me use and wait the last moments out. I'll be back tomorrow. I'll try to read a couple more of those links before I return.

Thanks for indulging me this evening.

 

[Mariamlu]

Re: Olive oil extract update...

First, I used freshly harvested MJ, straight off the tree. Reason being is that after only a week of drying over 30% of the terpenes are lost. And since with olive oil its possible to retain everything of medicinal value regardless of water content, fresh is the way to go.

What about decarboxylation process, does heating destroy terpenes?
Do you decarboxylate your olive oil extract?

 

[PsyCro]

Its decarbed in the cooking process.. i use 105 degrees for THC plants and 120 degrees for CBD plants.

Cannabinoid and Terpene Info | Skunk Pharm Research LLC

'Some' terpenes just start to boil/evaporate at 120 degrees, but i think mixed in the olive oil they get extra protection.. at least more so than when decarbing straight CO.
Yes they will evaporate slowly drying at room temperature (heck even water will), and yes i'm sure some is lost during decarbing, but this method should still retain the most amount.

 

[CajunCelt]

Hi all.
I had heard some intelligent & interesting issues were popping up over here so I asked Sue, Member of the Year (yay) for the link.
I need to keep reading & will catch up, but real quick.
There has been studies (though a few) that show the comparative cannabinoid level in the blood (ng/ml) after using several methods of dosing.
They included transdermal, submucosal, sublingual & nasal.

Food for thought:
A knowledgeable doctor will tell you that quitting chewing tobacco is much harder than quiting smoking tobacco. Why?

On tacking, I agree that there really is no research to be found other than this site.
I'll leave that for others to interpret or be diplomatic?

As Sue mentioned (the unsarcastic part), I have a very old phone to type from right now, so referencing info is rough to say the least. But I'll sure do what I can to help out our full in the blanks if I can somewhere.

Before I forget, there was alot of comparison studies of traditional RSO versus FECO. FECO being what your olive oil mix is i believe. I'll have to keep reading, had to make this quick.

Last thing, extra virgin olive oil is a much better carrier oil than the popular, but a lil outdated, coconut oil. I'm glad to find someone using it.

I would suggest you look more into lipscomal encapsulation if you're not gonna walk the tacking route. I explain it on my page so I won't here.

Later!

 

[CajunCelt]

I'm caught up now.

You seem to be primarily focused on terpenes, flavinoids & THCa.
First question, why?
The extended use of small doses of thca have been shown to actually block CB-1 receptors for instance.
Why focus on the baked potato when you've got a medium rare bone-in ribeye sitting right there.
I agree that the raw whole plant extract is much better than isolating 1 component. The synergy of the cannabinoids, terpenes, ect. is definitely needed. That's why the CCO, in any form, is superior to pharmaceuticals like Sativex & the GF Pharma stuff. But the CCO using the QWET method retains a competent amount of everything to retain that synergy.
There are tests showing that if it helps.

It's your mix the same paste that you & Motoco discussed? I won't be rude in anyway, just getting caught up. You're basically soaking the whole plant in olive oil. Using the olive oil as a carrier, not an extraction correct?

 

[PsyCro]

How is it not an extraction?? Its basically and edible, fully extracted, FECO basically as you mentioned yourself. Have you even this read this thread? And if your talking about the paste that i mentioned off some website, that was a question regarding that method, a very poor one btw which we deduced way back then.

The studies you mentioned, i'd love to see them, although i'm sure i already have.. and then we can compare with studies via ingestion after meals. BUT, BUT, BUT... nobody is still willing to adress the simple fact that here, on this forum, people are saying that cannabinoids cannot pass the Blood brain barrier properly without tacking, which is CRAZY, and a very misinformed lie, albeight not intentional. They DO pass the BBB, as per links above, thats whyyyy they work.. and that of course puts in question the thinking behind tacking, understand??

And i'm going to repeat something which i am honestly getting tired of repeating/typing.. if cannabinoids obviously DO pass the BBB, and get you high, and if with tacking they pass the BBB even better which some of you are saying here, then they will still get you high, maybe even more so. Can you not see the simple logic??


THCa, there's always some in there, UNLESS your decarbing TOO long:

Decarboxylation | Skunk Pharm Research

And yes i aim for a complete extract, its called the entourage effect, but i certainly don't aim for high levels of THCa, at least not for my applications.

If your oil has no THCa, then you've actually have gone over the optimal conversion/decarb point, and have lost THC to CBN.. wether thats good or not is another question.

And this comment of yours:
"On tacking, I agree that there really is no research to be found other than this site.
I'll leave that for others to interpret or be diplomatic?"

Come on, lets be serious.. can't you see what i'm saying here, this is big. If you ain't feeling it, its not getting in there. Cannabis has been helping people waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before you guys started tacking here. Can't you understand the possibility that with tacking it's just getting TOO diluted with saliva and not being fully absorbed? Wouldn't that be a waste?

I'm not tyring to break anyones hump here, but please, think with your heads.. think..

 

[Lady Cannafan]

Sue said:

The reality is that tacking was developed right here and no one has any emperical data to back up these claims.

Actually "tacking" was how Tim learned the method via Rick Simpsons' original protocol, who called it the "Gum Method". It wasn't developed here, it was just improved upon.
Tim wasn't the creator of the method in general.

I have a post on my blog from one of Tim's own posts that explains that. If interested, I can give a link.

Reading with interest here.

 

[SweetSue]

Thanks for that clarification Canna. I was unaware of that.

 

[CajunCelt]

Well as we go on my friend, know that I am not the champion of tacking. Actually, I'm probably the biggest headache when it comes to the subject for most that subscribe to it so feverishly.
Just reiterating that I'm not going to be harsh or sarcastic of you disagree with something I say.
Don't feel like you need to defend yourself.

I'm just trying to learn why you're doing what you are & how.

Feeling the high does not equal being medicated. I will post some info to back this up for you when I get a chance.
Also, I just meant that it's a carrier oil too that you are using. Not just purely for extraction & then discarded. Calm down.

 

[CajunCelt]

Sue said:


Actually "tacking" was how Tim learned the method via Rick Simpsons' original protocol, who called it the "Gum Method". It wasn't developed here, it was just improved upon.
Tim wasn't the creator of the method in general.

I have a post on my blog from one of Tim's own posts that explains that. If interested, I can give a link.

Reading with interest here.

Well to play Devils advocate, the Phoenix Tears folks have already stated that they did not make a video on gum placement (tacking) & then have it modified. They also don't believe tacking is what's being claimed.
If you contact Rick & his organization about "tacking", you're not going to get a very positive opinion of it as a "cure" all.
Tim always said they modified the videos to delete "tacking".

They disagree.

There were several is of us that contacted them & posted the results on the old thread.
All of the replies from Rick were identical.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

I took the information from a post that Tim himself did. He stated he followed the gum method from Rick Simpson's original video.

Hang on, I'll get that post:

420 Motoco - How he began with Concentrated Cannabis Oil

The last paragraph mentions the gum method as well.

How do you read that?

I don't have access to the old thread.

 

[CajunCelt]

I took the information from a post that Tim himself did. He stated he followed the gum method from Rick Simpson's original video.

Hang on, I'll get that post:

Tim & I discussed this a gazillion times. As most know, tacking is the one subject he & I disagreed on.
Don't produce the post, I've got 100's of them about this between he & I.
Produce the original video that shows all about the gum placement, ect.
That's the issue.
Rick's people thought we were "misguided" about tacking & stated Rick never went on about a gum placement method. And, there wasn't a modified video.
In Tim's replies to this, he felt Big Pharma modified the info from Rick basically to keep us sick.
The Phoenix Tears folks got a kick out of that.
I doubt Rick or his organization have changed their minds. I would contact them directly as we did for a reply if Rick's opinion about tacking means anything to anyone on here.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

I understand what you're saying. I didn't have privvy to all of that. I'm simply going by what the man stated in his words as far as how he learned to get to the tacking, as it is now called. Appears to now be one person's word against the other (phoenix tears and Tim) And I certainly don't need to contact them, I would get the same reply I'm sure, based on what you've said. And it does state on his site that they frown on what is now called Tacking.

Do you have any insight as to how he learned all of this in the first place? The gum method or the tacking?

Not playing Devil's advocate at all.

And the Rick Simpson oil information is how I came to the oil thread here in the first place. I don't have anything against that at all.
You are well aware that I am not a believer in tacking being the only method that will work for people.
If Tim was the creator of the gum method or tacking in the first place, I'm wondering why he didn't just say that in the beginning?

 

[PsyCro]

I am calm, no worries.. i'm just trying with a little vigor to make some points. Wether or not the method was developed here and by whom is practically of much less relevance, and certainly there is no need to blame anyone for misinformation if that's the case. Any misinformation is certainly not malintended. The whole point is to make sense of it all, and so far no one is talking about the blood brain barrier issue, nor the fact that cannabinoids like to bind to fat or alcohol for absorption.. that's what i am trying to convey here.

And one correction.. Sativex IS a whole extract, mixed alcohol and glycerin for absorption i believe. The only real problem with sativex is, once you do the math, they charge about 100euros per gram of grass !!!

In any case, peoples health is in question here, and people need to be properly informed.

Other than that, it is my firm belief that if people really don't want the euforia, go ahead and digest, with or after a meal, smaller doses, you won't feel them as much, and you'll save money/grass.. why take more via inefficient absorption?.. food for thought.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

I will turn this back over to your questions PsyCro.

Cajun, PM me if you like.

 

[Dennise]

Canna I actually know the answer to how Tim got to tacking... He was literally deep in thought with a dab on his finger stuck against his gums and just left it there for a few while he was pondering something... Next thing he knew the dab was gone... Hence we now have tacking... Now I don't know that to be the God's honest truth but I do know that is what I was told......

 

[Dennise]

I tack for MS and type 1 diabetes and the things that go along with it... It works... Just sayin"....

 

[CajunCelt]

I am calm, no worries.. i'm just trying with a little vigor to make some points. Wether or not the method was developed here and by whom is practically of much less relevance, and certainly there is no need to blame anyone for misinformation if that's the case. Any misinformation is certainly not malintended. The whole point is to make sense of it all, and so far no one is talking about the blood brain barrier issue, nor the fact that cannabinoids like to bind to fat or alcohol for absorption.. that's what i am trying to convey here.

Alot of this has been covered, lots. I restrained myself on your comment about having to repost info.
I realize your participation was awhile back, but we've covered alot of cannabinoids, the human ECS, extractions...alot, since then.

Have you bothered to read my thread?

I'm ONLY saying this to cut through you explaining the basics of extracting, how the body processes cannabinoids, ect., but I do this for a living. I am fully licensed/badged & work in a multi-site, very respected, very well known medical cannabis facility in Colorado.

I know that doesn't mean squat & I really don't want it to. I just don't want to go thru any long posts of you explaining bioavailability, processes, ect.
Assume I know exactly what you're talking about & we'll save lots of time.
If you lose me or I just plain don't get it, I'll ask.
I'm sorry if that sounds negative, it's not. You're one in a very long line, all of us doing the same thing

And one correction.. Sativex IS a whole extract, mixed alcohol and glycerin for absorption i believe. The only real problem with sativex is, once you do the math, they charge about 100euros per gram of grass !!!


Actually, no it is not. In fact, the majority of the process with it is to ISOLATE a specific cannabinoid. Not run around with all THC's buddies, like terpenes for example. That's why Sativex tapers off at larger doses where a while a whole extract will not.

In any case, peoples health is in question here, and people need to be properly informed.

Other than that, it is my firm belief that if people really don't want the euforia, go ahead and digest, with or after a meal, smaller doses, you won't feel them as much, and you'll save money/grass.. why take more via inefficient absorption?.. food for thought.

I'm sorry, but you make the statement about proper information and then go in to suggesting ingesting which is the most inefficient method of absorption?

Do me a favor so we can hit warp speed with this conversation?
Read my thread. It's not that long. Instead of relying on my résumé, you'll get a good idea where I'm coming from.
It'll keep us from birddogging each other's replies too.

I'll get to a laptop pretty soon & post some info on why healing doesn't equal being high. That's a big gap between us @ the moment.
I have what I believe to be the very latest info from the most current & knowledgeable network of professionals. Anything you can add or change or inform will be welcome!
I have an open mind & won't be taking my opinions (or yours) personally.

 

[CajunCelt]

I understand what you're saying. I didn't have privvy to all of that. I'm simply going by what the man stated in his words as far as how he learned to get to the tacking, as it is now called. Appears to now be one person's word against the other (phoenix tears and Tim) And I certainly don't need to contact them, I would get the same reply I'm sure, based on what you've said. And it does state on his site that they frown on what is now called Tacking.

Do you have any insight as to how he learned all of this in the first place? The gum method or the tacking?

Not playing Devil's advocate at all.

And the Rick Simpson oil information is how I came to the oil thread here in the first place. I don't have anything against that at all.
You are well aware that I am not a believer in tacking being the only method that will work for people.
If Tim was the creator of the gum method or tacking in the first place, I'm wondering why he didn't just say that in the beginning?

Truth be told, there used to be lots of room for open discussion about all of this.
And there was.
That changed many moons ago & I'm definitely not the one going to open that bag.

Rick's new book & the lack of anything related to tacking in the dosing section might be perceived in different ways.
Rick's video always showed a couple of patients sticking their finger in their cheek/gum in a few shots, but it apparently wasn't intended by them to be, well, what it is now & sure isn't a method they recommend.