Soil dryness while growing organically

[Hayron1088]

I’ve been re-amending my FFOF for quite awhile now using drE and homegrown worm castings and the occasional molasses tea. My question is, is it ok for my soil to be dry on top or should I be Atleast keeping it moist to keep the microbes alive? I’m sure there are other variables and reasons why you should/shouldn’t but I have no clue. To many articles out there and it seems each one has a different path to take. I like keeping my soils as simple as I can do that is why I reuse. So far so good as it has lasted 3 cycles. Any kind of helpful tips for me would be amazing. Thanks everyone for stopping by.

 

[greenjeans]

I use a shaved down chunk of cedar shingle as a "Dip stick". I shove it down as far as it will go, away from the roots, and leave it for about 15 minutes and check to see if has any dampness except right at the bottom. If it is dry to the touch in the top 3/4's or more of the stick I usually water

 

[Emilya Green]

Microbes are pretty tough. If dryness killed them, there would be no need for chlorine in our tap water, all we would have to do to rid the system of microbes would be to shut off the water. In our containers, there are plenty of places for the microbes to hide if it gets a little dry, as they will hide in the holes in the perlite and in other organics. Even if you dry out your container properly between waterings, all the way to the bottom, there are still thousands of microbes alive and well in there, and as soon as you water they start to multiply again every 10 or 20 minutes, quickly getting the populations up to the proper levels. You are not going to kill them before you have killed the plants from dryness, and even then, some of them will still be around.

But you are also using Dr. Earth? This clever nutrient and microbe mix reactivates every time you water too. With water, comes another fresh batch of new microbes. You have nothing to worry about regarding the microbes... they are in there. Stop watering for the microbes... too much water too often is harmful to your plant. Especially in veg, tease out that water, forcing the roots to grow in order to find it. Learn the lift the pot method of telling when it is time to water again. In bloom, water a bit more frequently but still get fairly dry, as @greenjeans said, most of the way to the bottom.

 

[Kapncannabis]

@Emilya , my watering starts as lifting the pot to feel the weight, as most do. But how to check when the plant gets to big or too populated to to be hefting? I use a moisture probe. My real question is how far do I probe to find the moisture level and should I keep probing in the same places to keep root damage to minimum?

 

[Emilya Green]

A moisture probe is a great tool to use, if you use it correctly. There are two readings that mean anything, moist and wet. Lower the probe slowly until you see the meter swing into the wet range. You have just found the top of the water table. When the water table falls to the last inch or two, it is time to water. Root damage will be minimal... you don't need to try to hit the same spot every time.

 

[Hayron1088]

I use a shaved down chunk of cedar shingle as a "Dip stick". I shove it down as far as it will go, away from the roots, and leave it for about 15 minutes and check to see if has any dampness except right at the bottom. If it is dry to the touch in the top 3/4's or more of the stick I usually water

Very cool idea! I do have a moisture meter but I think I will try your idea with other plants, thanks for that awesome idea

 

[Hayron1088]

Microbes are pretty tough. If dryness killed them, there would be no need for chlorine in our tap water, all we would have to do to rid the system of microbes would be to shut off the water. In our containers, there are plenty of places for the microbes to hide if it gets a little dry, as they will hide in the holes in the perlite and in other organics. Even if you dry out your container properly between waterings, all the way to the bottom, there are still thousands of microbes alive and well in there, and as soon as you water they start to multiply again every 10 or 20 minutes, quickly getting the populations up to the proper levels. You are not going to kill them before you have killed the plants from dryness, and even then, some of them will still be around.

But you are also using Dr. Earth? This clever nutrient and microbe mix reactivates every time you water too. With water, comes another fresh batch of new microbes. You have nothing to worry about regarding the microbes... they are in there. Stop watering for the microbes... too much water too often is harmful to your plant. Especially in veg, tease out that water, forcing the roots to grow in order to find it. Learn the lift the pot method of telling when it is time to water again. In bloom, water a bit more frequently but still get fairly dry, as @greenjeans said, most of the way to the bottom.

Thank you so much for replying, I always learn so much from your wisdom. Ok so here’s something regarding the overwatering. I have my creation(white widow,Cherry pie, random fire seed) that is always thirsty! Even when the soil is moist from top to bottom she will still be thirsty. Maybe I’m misdiagnosing the plant? Her leaves get “sad” and I give her water and poof, an hour later and for days after she is incredibly happy. Weird right? I know the number one struggle is over watering as I have done it too but this girl is baffling me because she is incredibly healthy and never gives me any problems.

 

[Emilya Green]

it sounds like two things are going on. First, you are misdiagnosing your plant and worse than that, assigning human emotions to it. Plants dont get sad... they react to their environment.

It sounds to me that you are a serial overwaterer. You have been overwatering by watering too often for so long that your lower roots are not working hardly at all. The only roots really doing anything are the top spreader roots, that exist in the top 3-4 inches of your soil. As the water moves through that region, you see the plant perk up and think it is happy. As soon as the water table falls below the top 3-4 inches again, the plant begins to droop. You need to start watering properly now, or your final yield is going to be very disappointing. Please read my article on how to properly water.

 

[Hayron1088]

it sounds like two things are going on. First, you are misdiagnosing your plant and worse than that, assigning human emotions to it. Plants dont get sad... they react to their environment.

It sounds to me that you are a serial overwaterer. You have been overwatering by watering too often for so long that your lower roots are not working hardly at all. The only roots really doing anything are the top spreader roots, that exist in the top 3-4 inches of your soil. As the water moves through that region, you see the plant perk up and think it is happy. As soon as the water table falls below the top 3-4 inches again, the plant begins to droop. You need to start watering properly now, or your final yield is going to be very disappointing. Please read my article on how to properly water.

I’m sorry for adding the human emotion, was just my way of saying that it’s needs watered, my apologies. My other 8 plants are not being over watered by any means so I think my inability to properly describe the situation to you is my fault. I’m horrible at the internet and typing so again I’m sorry. This is the only reason I basically use the internet or forums.

So back to this plant, if the soil is wet too to bottom and she still shows signs of needing water then what should I do?

 

[Emilya Green]

So back to this plant, if the soil is wet too to bottom and she still shows signs of needing water then what should I do?

You are misreading the signs. If there is still water in there that you can lift and feel, or send in a probe and see that it is there, then it is NOT time to water. Whatever drooping you're seeing is because of something else, not lack of water. Treat each of your plants as an individual. Move your plants around a bit and rotate them daily a half a turn. Move them to different places in the room. This will eliminate one acting differently than the others in most cases. You have to understand that what is happening is most likely because of something you are doing or not doing. If your leaves are not all hanging above the horizontal plane during most of the day, your roots have a problem. Your picture showed a little bit of lift in the leaves, but certainly not reaching up toward the light, or praying as the folks call it. This lack of lift is always related to the lower roots and their condition.

 

[Hayron1088]

Really good info thank you @Emilya I do rotate my plants Atleast once a week but one thing I have never done to be honest is move them with the tent. My blue berry is short and well just little lol so I keep her in the middle. I’ll post a pic to show you the setup. The plant in question is showing this sign almost to the day, every three days so now that you have educated me on a possible problem, I’m concerned because she appears and acts very healthy 99% of her life so far.

 

[Emilya Green]

There will usually be a runt in each batch, and a tall one. Relax... you got this now.

 

[Azimuth]

And you could elevate her on an upside down pot or something to bring the top of her canopy even with the taller one. She'd get more intense light that way and may be able to catch up more easily.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I recommend a high-quality coir added to your soil mix, and perlite. Coir helps disperse the water throughout the pot, and also helps retain and buffer moisture, and nutes during watering. Perlite is great for aeration. As per @Emilya, be sure not to over water. If your soil mixture is off, this could push you to over water... if so, make sure you are watering with nutes. You are on a great track with homegrown worm castings... that's what I do. As for molasses, I recommend against, because just about all mollasses these days contains heavy metals. Aerated worm compost tea is fun to make... may help your situation.

 

[Hayron1088]

I recommend a high-quality coir added to your soil mix, and perlite. Coir helps disperse the water throughout the pot, and also helpsnot l retain and buffer moisture, and nutes during watering. Perlite is great for aeration. As per @Emilya, be sure not to over water. If your soil mixture is off, this could push you to over water... if so, make sure you are watering with nutes. You are on a great track with homegrown worm castings... that's what I do. As for molasses, I recommend against, because just abotouut all mollasses these days contains heavy metals. Aerated worm compost tea is fun to make... may help your situation.

I did not know about heavy metals in molasses!!! Im taking all these replies and noting them on the back page of my journal. So worm castings could be a suitable replacement for molasses? im not saying its a total replacement but if it is then im all in! ive also done a little reading about kelp, so i obviously went out and bought some Kelp meal from DrE. I have used it twice on the plants in question but it wasnt until flowering when administered. Does kelp meal benefit microbes at all? im sure i could do a google search and find some literature on the topic but i would rather hear from you all here. I also would like to further this discussion to be honest because there is so much info out there on the interweb, its unreal and i dont know what to believe. I say this because im noticing there are so many "levels" of organic farming for lack of a better word and im just trying to simplify this process as much as possible. not because in lazy by any means but because of life, schedules, blah blah blah. ok im rambling again and will stop until one of you more seasoned growers tries your best to understand my ramblings. Thank you again and i really look forward to your replies.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I did not know about heavy metals in molasses!!! Im taking all these replies and noting them on the back page of my journal. So worm castings could be a suitable replacement for molasses? im not saying its a total replacement but if it is then im all in! ive also done a little reading about kelp, so i obviously went out and bought some Kelp meal from DrE. I have used it twice on the plants in question but it wasnt until flowering when administered. Does kelp meal benefit microbes at all? im sure i could do a google search and find some literature on the topic but i would rather hear from you all here. I also would like to further this discussion to be honest because there is so much info out there on the interweb, its unreal and i dont know what to believe. I say this because im noticing there are so many "levels" of organic farming for lack of a better word and im just trying to simplify this process as much as possible. not because in lazy by any means but because of life, schedules, blah blah blah. ok im rambling again and will stop until one of you more seasoned growers tries your best to understand my ramblings. Thank you again and i really look forward to your replies.

I am not aware of any commercially available molasses that doesn't have a Calif. Prop. 65 warning on it, like this one on Plantation Organic molasses:

Molasses does contain calcium, magnesium, potassium, phosphorus – but there are better sources for those that don't contain significant amounts of heavy metals. I use Down to Earth organic ferts, and I check those for heavy metals using this database. I use: bat guano, seabird guano, dolomite lime, oyster shell powder, greensand, gypsum, and potassium sulfate (all Down to Earth). This is what I rely on for macro-nutrients (N, P, K), plus calcium and magnesium.

The problem with molasses is that it's made from sugar cane, and industrial agronomic farming of sugar cane (even organic) uses fertilizers that contain heavy metals. The sugar cane plant draws these metals up, just like cannabis does, and it will wind up in your resin.

I sometimes make aerated compost tea for my plants, but not so much for the nutrients, especially macro-nutrients. I use it for the beneficial microbes, humic and fulvic acids, and micro-nutrients. My key ingredient is worm compost that I harvest from my worm bins. I might add some bat guano to the mixture to up the nitrogen, but typically will not add any other nutes. Aerated compost tea is the best way to make compost tea, which involves pumping air into airstones at the bottom of a 5 gal. bucket of pure, clean water with your compost in it. The bubbles need to be very fine. I brew this usually for about 48 hours, and during the last few hours I add a couple tablespoons of apple juice, for the sugar, which boosts the microbes. To harvest, I pour through pantyhose filters a couple times. The resultant tea is quite concentrated, and using a digital TDS pen (Total Dissolved Solids), I will dilute the mixture so that it's appropriate for either watering or foliar spray (foliar is more dilute). This kind of tea needs to be used right away – it doesn't keep for long. However, I understand that if you place it back in a clean bucket and continue aerating, it will keep for a while.