if u're getting .5g/watt in 3 mo. vs. 1g/watt w/longer veg time & flower time totaling 6mo., using the same 1kwatts it's the same. u just have to wait longer on u're harvest. since time is money, i think most will agree, the quicker u get meds sold, the quicker u have funds to expand. this is strictly from a business standpoint. of course, steve & several others are experimenting & hard and fast #'s don't always apply, and we're all learning what to expect from led's. i'm doing a seed run w/a ds300 now & even the most stubborn female showed pre-flowers in 16 days from sprouting (12/12) . so far i'm impressed.
Stevehman's LED Buyer's Guide
- Thread starter SteveHman
- Start date
when you say 3 months, I presume you then mean 1 month veg, 2 months flower. Yet so many folks just dont veg that long, and in the end yield even less per watt. But when a person asks about grams per watt, in the context of previous in this thread, we need to mention these differences.
any mj plant, even those on a 12/12 lite cycle is going to veg for 3 weeks, even autoflowers, so i call it all a flower cycle any time the lites are on. my whole room is on 12/12 except for 2 cabs/rooms (5x5 each) for experiments/fun single plant/custom grows, where i do full on veg. am i making sense or just rambling?
blah, blah, blah, ramble, ramble, ramble.
all in fun, just kiddin. Here's my ramble:
My only real point is to suggest in the context of the 1g/w question, we have to give a full on veg with no early cutoff for our own personal gain (meaning get buds sooner). As such, we cannot honestly LED isn't capable of 1g/w if we DON'T go full veg.
In my eyes the closest we can do to compare to HID, which some folks have and are doing, is side by side, same strain, same nutes, same light schedule, grows and compare the results. Even then, one sample (grow) may not be enough unless maybe we are doing a large side by side grow. In other words 3 plants on each side wouldnt be fair unless they were known same pheno's, and even then the clones may have had different amounts of stress. Now take 10-20 of the same strain from seed (hopefully same pheno) and we would get a much more solid idea of HID v LED. Of course having proper height (which seems to be an area of importance and discussion) on LED is going to have a major effect.
A good example of side by side large grows in LED v HID is available on youtube by Mr Blue Goo (google Mr Blue Goo). The entire series was done this year in a large grow. That being said, I am pretty sure he had bad height. He also used probably inferior lights in Sunshine 600w leds with 1 watt chips. **I got that info on the light directly from Mr Blue Goo**
prolly not. at least, not yet. most of the grows i've seen r smaller personal grows & yield about .6-.7 g/w. i'll be glad when we can really get these led's dialed in. when they get better/cheaper we'll see larger growers w/more means get involved & the learning curve will be shortened dramatically. u can't blame the commercial growers, because if they try something new & it doesn't pan out they come up short of meds & buyers go somewhere else. then they have to start growing their customer base again. not fun.
ratatattooey
New Member
Maybe there should be a tv show about growing mmj... and the characters can use LED's to grow. Then... Everyone will want to use them...
Magic beans
New Member
Another thing to think about is strain. No matter what light you use, youll get a small yield if you dont have high yielding genetics.
well yes, thats a pretty important aspect too.
Steve,
since you seem to be the led guru here, have you had any experience, or have you heard anything with the dorm grow lights? I have another thread going asking about them, but i'm a newbie and maybe am not trusted yet. They look like good lights, but i'm a little nervous about them, since there is very little information other than that provided by dorm grow.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Matt
since you seem to be the led guru here, have you had any experience, or have you heard anything with the dorm grow lights? I have another thread going asking about them, but i'm a newbie and maybe am not trusted yet. They look like good lights, but i'm a little nervous about them, since there is very little information other than that provided by dorm grow.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Matt
Sandtrx,
Just my opinion, but I think it's a damn far stretch to say a 600w will replace 1400 watts of HID. I do use LED and I think they are blowing smoke up our asses saying that. I mean c'mon more than two times output?
Just my opinion, but I think it's a damn far stretch to say a 600w will replace 1400 watts of HID. I do use LED and I think they are blowing smoke up our asses saying that. I mean c'mon more than two times output?
I think that it is too, They are a sponsor here, but that doesn't mean too much in the whole scheme of things, one of the other companies that make inferior stuff could be a sponsor as well if they paid and buttered with enough bs.
However, the lights have good specs (other than the replace hid statements, that is what makes me nervous about them) and I think they might be a contender, but i can't find any solid info from anyone other than dorm grow. They apparently will be having grow results from private journals to publish soon, but that really isn't going to hold near the merit with me that a public journal here would. I'm still on the fence about this and am driving myself nuts here.
I need to light a 4x8 flower tent and just can't afford the amoujnt of stealths or the advanced lights that i need to properly light it. I could swing the dorm grows or the blackstars , but i'm not sure of the reputation that it has with the rest of the folks Through all of the rest of my "using the search feature", apparently the penetrator people irritated you guys, so they are out for me, havn't found much about the blackstar here. Every one of you and your experiences here are invaluable to me.
if i can't find any good opinions on the dorm grows, i may just setup hps and be safe, but i'd like to be a part of the revolution and get great results from it. This is enough of my blabbering.
Matt
However, the lights have good specs (other than the replace hid statements, that is what makes me nervous about them) and I think they might be a contender, but i can't find any solid info from anyone other than dorm grow. They apparently will be having grow results from private journals to publish soon, but that really isn't going to hold near the merit with me that a public journal here would. I'm still on the fence about this and am driving myself nuts here.
I need to light a 4x8 flower tent and just can't afford the amoujnt of stealths or the advanced lights that i need to properly light it. I could swing the dorm grows or the blackstars , but i'm not sure of the reputation that it has with the rest of the folks Through all of the rest of my "using the search feature", apparently the penetrator people irritated you guys, so they are out for me, havn't found much about the blackstar here. Every one of you and your experiences here are invaluable to me.
if i can't find any good opinions on the dorm grows, i may just setup hps and be safe, but i'd like to be a part of the revolution and get great results from it. This is enough of my blabbering.
Matt
- Thread starter
- #152
For a 4x8 size tent you are going to need a lot of LEDs. And although I love using LEDs, in your case it may be more cost effective up front to go with an HPS system (if cost is a factor). You will need about 2,000 watts of LEDs to cover your space. You could go with 1/2 of your space in LED and the other in HPS and then convert the whole space after your first or second grow.
You should keep in mind why you are buying LEDs. I don't want to pay to keep a grow space cooled because of HPS lights. I live in the highest power rate location in the States (aside from Hawaii). We pay almost $0.25 a kwh, more than twice what people in the midwest pay. So, fo me the return on investment comes pretty quick.
If you have cheap electricity and don't have heat issues then LEDs will have a longer break even point for you. Also keep in mind that you won't be changing out bulbs like you do every 2~3 grows with HPS/MH.
Now, about claims that a 600w light is equal to a 2,000 HPS setup (or what ever the claims may be). I think that LEDs do have a slight advantage for the same wattage, but I don't have any scientific proof of that. I would think that a 400w LED may produce on par with a 600w HPS but again, just my opinion. Any wild claims should be ignored and the actual facts should be considered.
How many watts does the light actually draw? If a light is advertised as a 600w light and draws 240w I immediately discount that supplier for false advertising. I then look at their return and warranty policies. If they don't offer a 90 day money back and at least a 2 year warranty then keep looking. If the company is that confident in their product, they should give you a long enough time to evaluate it, 90 days gets you through a flower cycle, 30 days isn't enough time. Also, if you're dropping a grand on a light, it better have a 2~3 year no questions asked warranty (barring any obvious user neglect).
As for the other company. The reason not to use them is not because of their lights, it is due to their business practices. I won't go into detail here, but suffice it to say, if they offered me a free light I would not take it for fear of any future retribution that they might want to send my way if they were unhappy with my review (think a visit from your local sheriff to check out your grow).
You should keep in mind why you are buying LEDs. I don't want to pay to keep a grow space cooled because of HPS lights. I live in the highest power rate location in the States (aside from Hawaii). We pay almost $0.25 a kwh, more than twice what people in the midwest pay. So, fo me the return on investment comes pretty quick.
If you have cheap electricity and don't have heat issues then LEDs will have a longer break even point for you. Also keep in mind that you won't be changing out bulbs like you do every 2~3 grows with HPS/MH.
Now, about claims that a 600w light is equal to a 2,000 HPS setup (or what ever the claims may be). I think that LEDs do have a slight advantage for the same wattage, but I don't have any scientific proof of that. I would think that a 400w LED may produce on par with a 600w HPS but again, just my opinion. Any wild claims should be ignored and the actual facts should be considered.
How many watts does the light actually draw? If a light is advertised as a 600w light and draws 240w I immediately discount that supplier for false advertising. I then look at their return and warranty policies. If they don't offer a 90 day money back and at least a 2 year warranty then keep looking. If the company is that confident in their product, they should give you a long enough time to evaluate it, 90 days gets you through a flower cycle, 30 days isn't enough time. Also, if you're dropping a grand on a light, it better have a 2~3 year no questions asked warranty (barring any obvious user neglect).
As for the other company. The reason not to use them is not because of their lights, it is due to their business practices. I won't go into detail here, but suffice it to say, if they offered me a free light I would not take it for fear of any future retribution that they might want to send my way if they were unhappy with my review (think a visit from your local sheriff to check out your grow).
DormGrow.com
Active Member
Dear sandtrx,
I had a chance to read your posts and understand your concerns. We have had several customers ask for a longer trial period so we are going to extend our return policy from 60 days to 90 days to give growers a longer time period to try our lights and return them if they are not happy with the results. You will see this change to the return policy on our website in the coming days.
Thank you for your interest in our company.
I had a chance to read your posts and understand your concerns. We have had several customers ask for a longer trial period so we are going to extend our return policy from 60 days to 90 days to give growers a longer time period to try our lights and return them if they are not happy with the results. You will see this change to the return policy on our website in the coming days.
Thank you for your interest in our company.
dorm grow,
you need to get your lights to someone like steve that would do a public journal from the start to get things moving for you. With the reservations that i have, I'm thinking about just going hps to be safe. I do not have the funds to gamble with lights that no one knows anything about. I'm really not willing to jeapordize the health and productivity of the plants with an unknown. I know that you totally believe in your lights (at least i hope you do), but with such a valuable crop, they are going to have to be proven.
you need to get your lights to someone like steve that would do a public journal from the start to get things moving for you. With the reservations that i have, I'm thinking about just going hps to be safe. I do not have the funds to gamble with lights that no one knows anything about. I'm really not willing to jeapordize the health and productivity of the plants with an unknown. I know that you totally believe in your lights (at least i hope you do), but with such a valuable crop, they are going to have to be proven.
DormGrow.com
Active Member
Dear sandtrx,
We are in agreement with you and are working to get a couple grows for public journals which will be forthcoming. We will provide details in the coming weeks. Until then, we totally understand if you want to stick with traditional growing methods. We appreciate your construction input.
We are in agreement with you and are working to get a couple grows for public journals which will be forthcoming. We will provide details in the coming weeks. Until then, we totally understand if you want to stick with traditional growing methods. We appreciate your construction input.
OG13
New Member
Hey Steve, this is an excellent post. It basically sums up a bunch of the buyers guide.
Disclaimer: I own GS 600w Pro Bloom, not advanced led product.
I actually think DS200's, based on what I look at on their website will not properly cover 4x5. Mainly because of the odd "not square" shape of your grow area. I believe, the 400 would be right. Even the 300 may be slightly less than needed because you couldnt get both 4' & 5' based on positioning.
With my GS 600w, I now feel more confident I could do a good full grow in 4x4, (I'm currently only using about 65% of my 4x4 area) but in 4x5 I would use two. This in turn seems less than optimal for the 600. Sure I'd get great third off effect, but would I be using the light(s) to it's true grow area of value? Example, I think 2 x 600's would give me a fantastic grow in 4 x 7 or 4 x 8 and be in terms of efficiency costs be more optimal.
As for Advanced you could even go DS800 and be confident in coverage. You'd also be using slightly less kwh than 2 x ds400's and have more coverage.
I hope what I said makes sense.
I actually think DS200's, based on what I look at on their website will not properly cover 4x5. Mainly because of the odd "not square" shape of your grow area. I believe, the 400 would be right. Even the 300 may be slightly less than needed because you couldnt get both 4' & 5' based on positioning.
With my GS 600w, I now feel more confident I could do a good full grow in 4x4, (I'm currently only using about 65% of my 4x4 area) but in 4x5 I would use two. This in turn seems less than optimal for the 600. Sure I'd get great third off effect, but would I be using the light(s) to it's true grow area of value? Example, I think 2 x 600's would give me a fantastic grow in 4 x 7 or 4 x 8 and be in terms of efficiency costs be more optimal.
As for Advanced you could even go DS800 and be confident in coverage. You'd also be using slightly less kwh than 2 x ds400's and have more coverage.
I hope what I said makes sense.
ratatattooey
New Member
Hey ledbudz.
I will know the answer to this sometime this weekend. I currently have 2 of the DS200's over an aeroflo 30 I will say they cover the tubes perfectly!
I also have two of the DS400's that will FedEx says they are going to deliver tomorrow. I bought them to cover a 4x4 flood table. I'm confident I will get more than adequate coverage out of two of the DS400's over the table, but I will be able to verify once I get them hung up this weekend.
4 of the DS200's will more than cover your 4x5 no problems.
I will know the answer to this sometime this weekend. I currently have 2 of the DS200's over an aeroflo 30 I will say they cover the tubes perfectly!
I also have two of the DS400's that will FedEx says they are going to deliver tomorrow. I bought them to cover a 4x4 flood table. I'm confident I will get more than adequate coverage out of two of the DS400's over the table, but I will be able to verify once I get them hung up this weekend.
4 of the DS200's will more than cover your 4x5 no problems.
