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Throwing in the towel on DWC: bennies

Chris Scorpio

Member of the Month: July 2018
Z9 is great, I usually use z7 and hydroguard in mine

Just go light nutes, no h202 either, just base nutes like 1/4 strength, and full strength z9, and see how it goes

Be sure no light is getting in yer net pot clay either, add more if yer not sure, they seem a bit empty, fill em up

And again...lol...get 5 gal buckets, much easier to learn DWC, or even better the shorter 3gal

Good luck
 

StelioKontos

New Member
Thanks for the info Chris, will do. Z9 is just the Canadian version, I thinks it's just cause we require french on the label and I hope its the same ingredients but who knows.

Switching to a bucket system now would be a lot of rebuild, not something I want to do if I can avoid. I originally was trying to keep the system as one large bin so it was only one system to maintain and seemed simpler than building a RDWC system. Although I ended up with 2 bins recirculating into each other, but I only have to measure ppm and ph once and drain one system.

Appreciate the help though, I will do all the other stuff you mentioned, lol.
 

RipinTubes

New Member
Yeah theres a lot to grasp with DWC at first and one of them is getting the products dialed in for your setup. I went through the same ordeal in the beginning until I just went with the basics and started adding things back in until I found what worked and what didn't for me. The first time I did that, I grew HUGE 6 ft tall monsters that almost reached the top of the tent, heh. And I was running minimal stuff, besides orca and hydroguard. Less is more for sure.

Also just checking the PPM/EC everyday will give you a good idea of what the plant is eating. Dialing that to the exact amount of food its eating every week is probably one of the best things you can do to avoid problems in general. Your ph should be very rock solid even in 5g buckets if you can calculate your nute mixture to reach the exact ppms/EC they are eating. Most plants fall in the 600-700ppm range through out the grow. So check it every day and make adjustments accordingly and write it down for next time in its growth stage so you know exactly what to feed next time. Easy for veg, usually one setting.. a little more complex for flower cause it changes a lot as time goes on.

:peace:
 

StelioKontos

New Member
I'm really on on the ropes now boys. So I changed the res yesterday with base nutes only, as per your recommendation. Mid day today I began to smell the funk and now this evening it is quite evident. I added some h2o2 to combat the rot. It seems as though I wont be able to run DWC like this. Perhaps hydrogaurd would have solved the situation. Oddly enough, I must go to warshington to pick up my mother in law (cheaper flights) soon. I could grab a bottle of hydrgaurd and declare it at the border and see how that goes, lol.

Would any one know the proper amounts of h2o2 to run at all times to maintain a healthy DWC?
 

RipinTubes

New Member
I'm really on on the ropes now boys. So I changed the res yesterday with base nutes only, as per your recommendation. Mid day today I began to smell the funk and now this evening it is quite evident. I added some h2o2 to combat the rot. It seems as though I wont be able to run DWC like this. Perhaps hydrogaurd would have solved the situation. Oddly enough, I must go to warshington to pick up my mother in law (cheaper flights) soon. I could grab a bottle of hydrgaurd and declare it at the border and see how that goes, lol.

Would any one know the proper amounts of h2o2 to run at all times to maintain a healthy DWC?
Yeah, it would be helpful to see some pics of the whole setup. I would suspect the nutrient line... I had major issues with the first line of nutes I was using in DWC and switched to somethin totally different and it's been awesome ever since. So, definitely something to consider. I know it sucks wasting shit to find that out... but somethings not jiving here. At 62-63 there shouldn't be much growing in that res. So it seems like an airflow issue or the nutes just aren't jiving. There's only so many things it can be. How's your airflow in the water? Are you using RO water?
 

StelioKontos

New Member
The air pumps is 240 GPH and there is about 20 gal in the res. Maybe not enough?

I fill a 30 gal drum with tap water and put an air pump with bubble stone in for a week. The idea being in between res changes it has a week to off gas chlorine. I think on the 2nd or 3rd "issue" I put h2o2 in the water 2 days before I was going to mix nutes and add to the res, just in case there was something contaminating the water. The 2 days where to allow the h2o2 to breakdown. The tap water where I live is very good, among the best in the world, 39ppm from tap.

I'm using AN PH Perfect nutes with the hobbyist additives (voodoo juice, b52, big bud and overdrive). This last res change was just the micro, grow, bloom, as Chris suggested, so I suppose the b52 was not to blame, nor the VJ. At least the base nutes are cheap so I don't mind some trial and error with them.

Iv'e got to run, but will take pics of my setup and explain it later today.

I really appreciate the help guys!
 

StelioKontos

New Member
So here's the setup pics...

This pic shows the earlier way I had tried to keep the light out, that stuff wasn't the greatest, but it shows the general layout.
The jugs are just to take up a bit of volume cause it was getting to be a lot. They also bow the bottom down to help it drain. The drain is in between the jugs in the middle of the bin (can't see them).
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The lid is quite light proof now. I didn't start growing until it was all good regarding light.
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The whole tent, light is currenlty MH at 250 watts. will be HPS at 600 for flower.
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Below the insulating layer,
The duct on the right is the intake, there is a furnace filter on the outside end of it. If you see in the pic above, in the back left corner there is a grey duct. So the air comes in the right front and generally travels to the back left, across the bins and pump. The grey duct is just to help keep light from beaming through the hole. It's only about a foot long.
You can see the water depth gauge, I have the light cover held half way up. I couldn't get that blue UV proof tubing here.
The drain in the middle connected with a T to both bins, this keeps the water levels even in the 2 bins as well.
The funnel is for adding nutes ect. down the depth gauge and the cup for washing it down and taking samples.
The 2 stubbed off tubes on the front of each bin was how I originally had the bins and drain connected but it was too high and there was still almost 2" of water left in the bins. With the drains connected like I have now very little is left and I flush it with about 5 gals of plain water before I add the new nutes.
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There is a submersible pump in each bin pumping into each other. That messy tape job covers the clear tube going between bins. Also, the power cords come out of that hole and that other tube is an air intake for the water pump, it adds some bubbles into the flow so why not. There's one at the back as well. I did check the tape job for light leaks.
You can see the air lines in between going to the pump in the back. The pump is in a basket wrapped in foam cause its the loudest part of the setup, lol. But its loosely wrapped so it can breath.
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Here's the inside of the bins currently, roots are growing but still seem brownish. Could partly be staining from the B52 before. Or residual "rot" or whatever.
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Here's the plants currently. It was going to top them right about now but I'm not sure I should. That shiny thing in the middle is a board covered in tape, it holds the layer of insulation centered
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So that's the whole setup. Maybe it would have been easier to do 4, 5 gallon buckets but then they would all have to be connected and pumped or separately sampled and drained. I originally wanted one bin but couldn't get anything suitable. So I ended up with this monstrosity, But its large, connected as one so sampling and draining are easy and maintenance is low, if the damn thing would stop getting infected or whatever is going on.
So let me know if you see any issues.
Thanks.
 

Bigjake8

Well-Known Member
I throw a couple Penny's at you

Catch you some rain water or melt some snow and try that even if you only can get enough to make it 50 % it has to be something in you water we went through that around here thought it was my recipe but was in the local hydro store and overheard a couple that was having the same problems I was and we was all using the same water and all running different nutes seems like that's the only thing you haven't tried

I run an at 1oz to 5 gal of the gmb and only run hydroguard in the summer and no h2o2 I've been told that the h2o2 was not the problem when I switched to an I was having issues and somehow got the idea that it was killing the good bacteria in the an dropped it and no problem since other than the water issue but that was probably my problem back then and didn't know it that was a year ago

I like your setup but then I like complicated stuff hang out with my wife you'll see haha don't tell her that

Good luck
 

StelioKontos

New Member
Thanks for the input,
The last res change I did only use the base nutes, MGB and the problem returned next day. So perhaps it is the water but I think on the second problem, I put h2o2 in the water about 2 days before mixing up nutes and putting in the res and it still returned. Maybe I didn't use enough h2o2. Also my temps are on the low side, 64.5F at the high end, which is why this is so strange.

I run an at 1oz to 5 gal of the gmb and only run hydroguard in the summer and no h2o2 I've been told that the h2o2 was not the problem when I switched to an I was having issues and somehow got the idea that it was killing the good bacteria
I can't get hudrogaurd in my area.
h2o2 will kill any bacteria, good or bad, such as AN's voodoojuice which I was using but would be pointless if also adding h2o2.

I think there's just no way for me to run a beneficial bacteria system in my circumstance, maybe if I had access to hydrogaurd. So I'm just going to have to run h2o2 all the time. I found a chart from Cannastat that shows the correct amounts to run continuously. It was posted on this site, I can dig up the link if anyone wants.

So the question is, am I going to get anything from plants that have suffered this root "issue" 4 times?
I guess I'm going to go ahead and find out. I'll be topping them next as they are well passed 6 nodes.
Thanks everyone for the help! I'll post updates.
 

Bigjake8

Well-Known Member
Probly not gonna be one for the record books but ya never know once they take you'd be surprised

If it was me I'd use totally different water and quit the h2o2 and only the base nutes cant tell exactly where your water level is but I'd put it about where just the tips is touching and let them bubbles work and make them grow down to it i had mine to high on a couple plants and they was slow starting
as low as your water temps are you should be kicking ass not that your to cold I'm happy with 60 to 70 myself

Here's why you don't give up the girls in the back corners didn't have a green leaf on them when I flipped I pushed them in the corner to let them live or die tried running some cheaper nutes didn't work and back to an at flip ended up with 9oz off them 2
 

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falstaffo

Well-Known Member
dont listen me, im a noob, and all i knowis what im reading on this forum :D
i do however remember reading a thread from maybe 8 years ago, someone having some problems with dwc (i cannot recall if issues were same but it was to do with water) the ppm of the water was low, and ph below 8 iirc, however the alkalinity of the water was veryyyyy high, alkalinity is different from ph, something about the waters ability to hold acidity, anyway many things were tried, nutes flushes different products etc and in the end it was suggested change the source, fighting high alkalinity is not easy i think it said and so ro or distilled as a starting point..
i could try find a link when i get a chance.
as i said though dont listen me, i may be completely off the ball park but again maybe something to consider if you haven’t, good luck!!
 

Chris Scorpio

Member of the Month: July 2018
So the question is, am I going to get anything from plants that have suffered this root "issue" 4 times?
I guess I'm going to go ahead and find out

My 1st issue in DWC , my second go around, did a Amnesia Haze
It got so bad of goopies, looked like the blob on her roots
After two weeks I gave up cuz was going on vacation for a week, that was 11/5/18

Came back 7 days later, she was still alive, no lights, no pump in the water, nothing.
I dropped her in soil for shits and giggles and put her straight into flower

Just harvested her about two weeks ago, some of the BEST smoke I've grown. Only got 60gr off her but pulled 3 clones and they are doing fantastic

Never give up is the moral to my story
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broadleaf

Member
How old is the h202 your using and what strength is it? If you have a root problem use 3-5 ml per gallon of 32% h2o2, add it again in 3-4 days. If your water temps are 64 you should not get root rot at all. I dont see root rot on your plants in the last set of pictures. B52 will stain roots. I quit using it because it would end up in the bottom of my reservoir. I switched to Vitamino from Botanicare. Im thinking you are seeing B52 stained roots. Take a close up the next time you see root rot and post it. Watch you PPMs in dwc....less is better in water. I usually run nutes at 50% - 75% of recommended strength in DWC.
 

StelioKontos

New Member
Thanks for the h2o2 info. I had searched quite a bit about the correct amount and had found that about 3ml/gal was common, added every 2-3 days. So that's on par with what you're saying and it's nice to know I can add a bit more and let it go another day.

I' pretty sure there's more than just B52 staining going on on the roots but I will get a better pic later today, lights are off right now.

ppm is 486 @.5 scale. The AN scheduled range is from 1ml/L to 4ml/L for veg. I used 1.5ml/L at this point, plants showing no sign of over feeding.

Since Iv'e been running h2o2 continuously I haven't had a recurrence of the root problem.

Forgot to mention, the h2o2 I'm using is brand new, 29%.
 
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Here is my 2 cents... I would take anything organic out of the mix, use hydrogaurd and ur base nutrients you shouldn't need to go above 200ppm while they are still so small but you can. Personally i adjust the ppm and PH levels in my DWC buckets daily or every other day just to try and keep them perfect. But i only do res changes when shit hits the fan so to speak and i can not figure out what is wrong. Ive completed grows only doing 2 res changes in a 5 gal bucket using just hydrogaurd and fox farm grow big and tiger bloom, stay away from the micros that are brown as they tend to fuck ur roots up in DWC.
 

StelioKontos

New Member
Unfortunately I can't get hydrogaurd where I am.

Here's some pics.
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In this one the flash is making things seem whiter than they are. You can see a ball of gunked up roots there.
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I remembered I got a microscope attachment for a cell phone so just for shits n giggles I plucked a small root from that glob and tried looking at it. As it's laying on the slide here you can see how brown it is in normal light.
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Don't know if anything can be learned from this not so focused, cheesy cell phone microscope, but I'll put it on anyway.
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It works great for looking at the trichomes though.
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Here's the plants. Not looking so happy, droopy.
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broadleaf

Member
Thats root rot but I see new growth. They only way Ive seen root rot in dwc is water temps to high. You said your temps were 62-63. Check your temp gauge and make sure its not off. 68F or lower water temps and oxygen rich water means no root rot. I would add 5ml per gallon until its gone.

AN makes tarantula which is the same as hydroquard. Im running hydroguard and tarantula at 50/50 with 64 degree (chiller) water temp. Never have a root issue.
 
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