2 More Absolute Beginner Questions

[Wastei]

good stuff, eh? It's even better than it looks here. I asked them when I started using Geoflora, "do I have to use RO water or filter out the chlorine?" Their answer was that so many new microbes of just the right kinds are being activated with each watering, that it didn't matter if chlorine might kill a percentage of them. Plenty of replacement microbes keep coming in with each watering. I ran tap water for a couple of years with GeoFlora just because I could, and indeed it did work.

When dealing with multiple products and companies though, you might get different answers. It turns out that chlorine can still play havoc with the fungi that grow amongst the roots, and to help protect the myco network, chlorine should actually be eliminated. live and learn, so now I filter out 97% of the chlorine, and things are in fact going better.

Why would someone listen to you instead of the manufacturer selling their own product? A couple of ppm's of chlorine won't affect microbes that much, even according to studies.

One reason chlorinated water has little impact is that chlorine binds to soil particle surfaces. This immobilizes chlorine and reduces its ability to kill microorganisms. The organisms in the topmost surface of soil or a compost pile may be affected after irrigation but as the water moves downward little chlorine remains. In one study, researchers found that water chlorinated at 5 ppm killed organisms only in the top half inch layer of soil. Organisms deeper than one half inch were thriving.

5 ppm residual chlorine is A LOT of chlorine, way more than what you'll ever find in regular tap water.

If you really want to neutralize tap water we use ascorbic acid in water treatments. It removes both chlorine and chloramines. All the best of luck!

 

[Emilya Green]

Why would someone listen to you instead of the manufacturer selling their own product? A couple of ppm's of chlorine won't affect microbes that much, even according to studies.

One reason chlorinated water has little impact is that chlorine binds to soil particle surfaces. This immobilizes chlorine and reduces its ability to kill microorganisms. The organisms in the topmost surface of soil or a compost pile may be affected after irrigation but as the water moves downward little chlorine remains. In one study, researchers found that water chlorinated at 5 ppm killed organisms only in the top half inch layer of soil. Organisms deeper than one half inch were thriving.

5 ppm residual chlorine is A LOT of chlorine, way more than what you'll ever find in regular tap water.

If you really want to neutralize tap water we use ascorbic acid in water treatments. It removes both chlorine and chloramines. All the best of luck!

Water repeatedly with chlorinated tap water in a closed container, and over time you will kill all the microbes and fungi in there if they are not being regularly replenished. The study you cite unfortunately is talking about what happens in and on the ground.

Why would anyone listen to me? First, I didn't contradict what the manufacturer says, second I have used the stuff for about 5 years now, and third, I am an official reviewer for this magazine and so by definition I want people to listen to me, and I think I am credible enough that this will happen.

I also said that myco fungi do not appreciate the chlorine, and our sponsor @DYNOMYCO does not recommend anywhere in their documentation that it is ok to throw chlorine at their product. If you are using that product in your closed containers, you might want to rethink using untreated or unfiltered tap water.

Lastly, yes, if you want to completely remove chlorine you can filter it, RO is totally effective and the filter I use is 97% effective. That IMHO is good enough. And lastly you can oxidize all of the chlorine in your water by using ascorbic acid. I personally don't think we know enough about this process yet to call it safe. I would not drink the water after this had been done. Many potable water disinfection byproducts (DBPs) that result from the reaction of natural organic matter (NOM) with oxidizing chlorine are known or suspected to be carcinogenic and mutagenic. It probably is safe for our plants and our eventual consumption of them, but because of this unknown, I filter.

 

[Wastei]

Water repeatedly with chlorinated tap water in a closed container, and over time you will kill all the microbes and fungi in there if they are not being regularly replenished. The study you cite unfortunately is talking about what happens in and on the ground.

Why would anyone listen to me? First, I didn't contradict what the manufacturer says, second I have used the stuff for about 5 years now, and third, I am an official reviewer for this magazine and so by definition I want people to listen to me, and I think I am credible enough that this will happen.

I also said that myco fungi do not appreciate the chlorine, and our sponsor @DYNOMYCO does not recommend anywhere in their documentation that it is ok to throw chlorine at their product. If you are using that product in your closed containers, you might want to rethink using untreated or unfiltered tap water.

Lastly, yes, if you want to completely remove chlorine you can filter it, RO is totally effective and the filter I use is 97% effective. That IMHO is good enough. And lastly you can oxidize all of the chlorine in your water by using ascorbic acid. I personally don't think we know enough about this process yet to call it safe. I would not drink the water after this had been done. Many potable water disinfection byproducts (DBPs) that result from the reaction of natural organic matter (NOM) with oxidizing chlorine are known or suspected to be carcinogenic and mutagenic. It probably is safe for our plants and our eventual consumption of them, but because of this unknown, I filter.

The rep was talking about using Tap water for their products, not throwing chlorine at it? To say that it's necessary to remove chlorine without any data or point of reference to the source water is not very productive.

What if there's no chlorine or negligible amounts to the point of the reps advice actually being accurate?

It all depends on the source water if you need to remove chlorine or not, that's my point. Why do extra job if it's not necessary?

 

[Emilya Green]

Calm down. The rep was talking about using Tap water for their products, not adding chlorine? To say that you should remove chlorine without any data or point of reference to OP's source water is not very wise in my book?

What if there's no chlorine or negligible amounts to the point of the reps advice actually being accurate?

Not sure if it is you or me, but someone is confused? No one has suggested adding chlorine. If there is no chlorine in the water, there is no issue, but if it is an organic grow, the effect of any chlorine in the water must be considered when growing in containers.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Why would someone listen to you instead of the manufacturer selling their own product?

Because manufacturers sometimes hype their own products. One example I've seen is a commercial potting soil company saying that you don't need to use a liquid fertilizer, and then in the fine print you find out that indeed you do need to use liquid fertilizer – also sold by the same company. Another thing I see happening is companies will hype how great their fertilizer is, with slick-looking websites, etc., while not being forthcoming about what the ingredients are and amounts of specific nutrients (guaranteed analysis). Case in point: Super Thrive. There are others.

I think for some growers, they can lose objectivity and get attached to one product or another. I tend to be critical of all commercial products, and want to know the numbers and the sources. By critical I mean, "involving the objective analysis and evaluation" in order to come to an opinion or conclusion.

Why would anyone listen to me? First, I didn't contradict what the manufacturer says, second I have used the stuff for about 5 years now, and third, I am an official reviewer for this magazine and so by definition I want people to listen to me, and I think I am credible enough that this will happen.

Wastei, it looks like you made a quantum leap there... Emilya was just stating an observation about chlorine in tap water and Geoflora, and not connecting that to OP's grow. However, a lot of growers are using tap water, and chlorine is quite common in tap water.

Some of us here will provide helpful information that may appear not so completely applicable to the OP's situation, but I think in the free sharing of good information, we arrive at the destination we are going for. I'm certainly guilty of "going off trail" a bit – I tend to ramble on about the minutia.

 

[Wastei]

Because manufacturers sometimes hype their own products. One example I've seen is a commercial potting soil company saying that you don't need to use a liquid fertilizer, and then in the fine print you find out that indeed you do need to use liquid fertilizer – also sold by the same company. Another thing I see happening is companies will hype how great their fertilizer is, with slick-looking websites, etc., while not being forthcoming about what the ingredients are and amounts of specific nutrients (guaranteed analysis). Case in point: Super Thrive. There are others.

I think for some growers, they can lose objectivity and get attached to one product or another. I tend to be critical of all commercial products, and want to know the numbers and the sources. By critical I mean, "involving the objective analysis and evaluation" in order to come to an opinion or conclusion.


Wastei, it looks like you made a quantum leap there... Emilya was just stating an observation about chlorine in tap water and Geoflora, and not connecting that to OP's grow. However, a lot of growers are using tap water, and chlorine is quite common in tap water.

Some of us here will provide helpful information that may appear not so completely applicable to the OP's situation, but I think in the free sharing of good information, we arrive at the destination we are going for. I'm certainly guilty of "going off trail" a bit – I tend to ramble on about the minutia.

Yes you shouldn't straight out listen to manufacturers advices and recommendations, they're just after your money. I just wanted to see her trying to rationalize her own views of things and ways of operating.

Just because you praise your ways of operating doesn't mean you automatically should put down everything elses advices and suggestions instead of understanding their points of views?

A good healthy argumentation is rare to have these days to be honest. Were both parts are in it to learn instead of being emotionally driven of being right!

I was trying to get to the point that everything should be treated according to the source water. Whatever that is, here they legally have to provide tests 4 times a year that are all public. Our tap has no trace amounts of chlorine. It's not productive trying to remove something that's not even there in the first place.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Yes you shouldn't straight out listen to manufacturers advices, they're just after your money. I just wanted to see her trying to rationalize her own views of things and way of operating.

Just because you praise your way of operating doesn't mean you automatically should put down everything elses advices and suggestions instead of understanding their points of views?

A good healthy argumentation is rare to have these days to be honest. Were both parts are in it to learn instead of being emotionally driven of being right!

We all state things based on our knowledge and experience, or on something that we read, and that will sometimes be in conflict with another's position. Who is right? This is where objective truth comes in. We've had this discussion before here on the forum. We all need to be humble and realize that sometimes our position about something may not be true. Sometimes long-held beliefs get obliterated. Sometimes – if you really get in there and dissect a subject – you find details that you didn't even know existed.

So then, if person A makes a statement (of fact), and person B counters that with a statement (of fact), and the two positions are not compatible, then... someone's facts are off base. If the exchange is done with respect, then the exchange can flow, and then someone will need to be humble and thankful for being enlightened. Sometimes the conclusions can't be known without more information, and then both parties need to be humble. By humble I mean the opposite of self-importance and ego.

Following the science means always questioning and testing the conclusions. Science is not religion – there are no sacred, unquestionable truths.

 

[Wastei]

We all state things based on our knowledge and experience, or on something that we read, and that will sometimes be in conflict with another's position. Who is right? This is where objective truth comes in. We've had this discussion before here on the forum. We all need to be humble and realize that sometimes our position about something may not be true. Sometimes long-held beliefs get obliterated. Sometimes – if you really get in there and dissect a subject – you find details that you didn't even know existed.

So then, if person A makes a statement (of fact), and person B counters that with a statement (of fact), and the two positions are not compatible, then... someone's facts are off base. If the exchange is done with respect, then the exchange can flow, and then someone will need to be humble and thankful for being enlightened. Sometimes the conclusions can't be known without more information, and then both parties need to be humble. By humble I mean the opposite of self-importance and ego.

Following the science means always questioning and testing the conclusions. Science is not religion – there are no sacred, unquestionable truths.

Wise words! I'm pretty straight as a person but I care more about others than people think. I've struggled most throughout my life and I don't want anyone else to go through the same things I had to go through. I only want to help and give something back at the end of the day. Times not enough and I dont want people to suffer.

You can't see anything on the surface but I'm non functional without the herb with neurotic pain and no real mobility. I live in a country were it's strictly prohibited and not accepted either by law, family or by culture. I have no other choice or chance than this and I have to do as good job as I can before my time comes.

I come out sounding like an asshole more than I like to admit and I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. I just want to help.

 

[Hawk518]

6/13/23

Background - Today is 7 weeks since I started germination. They’re in 1 gallon fabric grow pots. They’re both outside 24/7. Watering with rain water. Both are still extremely small for their age. They’ve only received GeoFlora Veg for 1.5 doses. They’ll get their next dose next week.

Questions:
1. Noticed a few leaves on the GDP have marks on them. Any idea what caused them and how to fix whatever issue it is? Should I just clip the leaves w. these spots?

2. At what point should I re-pot the bigger plant? Still debating between a 5, 7 or 10 gallon fabric grow pot. But they’re both so tiny that I’m thinking a 5 gallon should be more than enough.

3. Are the numbers shown in the last two pictures within acceptable ranges?

Any help / suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[Fenderbender]

Are they photos? go for the bigger pot unless you want to keep them tiny.
They are trying but they look a bit anemic.

Use big pot, I mean photo outside could do with that, you need to add some hydroton & perlite to your soil mix to make it very airy, might even want to layer it with soil & perlite alternating that way you can ensure good drainage and aeration, you want that pot dry quickly so you can feed and water plenty of times.
If you get wet clumpy soil you get unhappy roots and unhappy plants.

Alternatively look into wicking with your fabric pots.. that ensures constant water rate at the plant's desire.

 

[Wastei]

In my honest opinion I think the amendmendts found in Geoflora is probably better used to amend a soil mix and then let it cook for 2 weeks before use to let the medium buffer pH with the available minerals in the mix, kind of what happens in a SIP(Sub irrigated planter). Then you repeatedly top dress every two weeks or whatever's suggested. Pot size are fine for the size of plant. But you can almost chew 1765ppm / 3.5 EC input. You're probably offsetting pH in medium with that strong feed early on.

 

[BeccaBuds]

@Hawk518, there's an awful lot of wood chunks in your soil mix. That can screw up soil balance if not composted fully. I would screen out and replace the wood with perlite and vermiculite. That will improve drainage as well. Are those TDS readings of run-off water?

 

[Hawk518]

6/14/23 - I’ve had quite a few comments suggesting that the soil itself could be better. So, I just purchased some Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil and Perlite. Thoughts about transplanting both plants into whatever size gallon pots the 1.5 cubic foot bag of FFOF (+ perlite) will fill? Not sure what size pots would work - either two 7 gallons or a 5 and 7 gallon pot. Would transplant asap.

 

[Hawk518]

Are they photos? go for the bigger pot unless you want to keep them tiny.
They are trying but they look a bit anemic.

Use big pot, I mean photo outside could do with that, you need to add some hydroton & perlite to your soil mix to make it very airy, might even want to layer it with soil & perlite alternating that way you can ensure good drainage and aeration, you want that pot dry quickly so you can feed and water plenty of times.
If you get wet clumpy soil you get unhappy roots and unhappy plants.

Thanks for your comments. The plants are photos (a GDP and THC Bomb). What should I do so they don't look anemic? I'm thinking of transplanting them into bigger pots w. much better soil (Fox Farm Ocean Forest). Will layer the soil / perlite as you suggest.

 

[Hawk518]

But you can almost chew 1765ppm / 3.5 EC input.

Thanks for your comments. I realized after posting that the TDS readings are NOT accurate. This was the first time using the TDS meter. The saucer the plants are in was not clean to get an accurate reading. Also, didn't calibrate the meter.

 

[Hawk518]

@Hawk518, there's an awful lot of wood chunks in your soil mix. That can screw up soil balance if not composted fully. I would screen out and replace the wood with perlite and vermiculite. That will improve drainage as well. Are those TDS readings of run-off water?

Thank you for your input. I've had quite a few comments about the soil quality. Hoping a mix of Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil and perlite in bigger grow pots will help out. Thoughts?

The TDS readings of run-off water are Not accurate and will have to be redone.

 

[Fenderbender]

Thanks for your comments. The plants are photos (a GDP and THC Bomb). What should I do so they don't look anemic? I'm thinking of transplanting them into bigger pots w. much better soil (Fox Farm Ocean Forest). Will layer the soil / perlite as you suggest.

Best thing is to make the roots happy which results in happy plant, it's not that your soil is bad cause I'm sure it works great for other stuff, but as Beccabuds said the woodchips, and to me that looks heavy clunky soil if you wet it it will keep wet for a while but you don't want that, you want nice aerated soil that drains quickly.

The layering in smartpots comes from Bill284, you alternate layers of perlite and soil, mist the layers to activate them when making the pot, might want to ask him if there is a preferred ratio, and then avoid watering the original soil around the stem, never water there anyways, but water only around the plant coaxing the roots to the sides of the pot.
And it's also good to mix up perlite in the soil you're using about 25% to the soil again for better aeration and drainage.

 

[CarolinaFarmer]

I’m gonna like it here!

 

[seaofgreen18]

Q1: Do I need a pH meter for soil AND another for water?

Q2: After reading a lot of articles, I’m a bit confused over the soil / nutrients requirements. Do I need special soil for cannabis AND additional nutrients? Or is that overkill that will lead to nutrient burn?
EX. If I buy something like GeoFlora Veg & Bloom, can I just use this w. normal potting soil? OR do I need some kind of special potting soil as well as the additional nutrients?

This is what I use for soil and water pH Blue Lab pH soil meter works GREAT KIS organic check their soil out it'll explain some of your soil questions

 

[seaofgreen18]

This is what I use for soil and water pH Blue Lab pH soil meter works GREAT KIS organic check their soil out it'll explain some of your soil questions

I reuse my soil over and over again