480W & 720W LED Grow - Land of Clovers

[og crusader]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Hey guys I'm keeping my 395w 2011 Spectra 10inches above tip of top colas and I'm starting to see a problem. I think it must either be a P deficiency but I'm not sure if its from lockout or me not feeding enough. I feel that I've been adding enough tsp of my Earth Juice nutes, but maybe not. Theres also the ph Up i've been adding and I suspect thats the culprit if this indeed a case of nute lock.

It looks like you've got too much nitrogen, causing toxicity. See how the fan leafs are clawing out and curling down? That could be preventing proper uptake. You should flush and cut back on the nitrogen. How many weeks in are you? After the 5th week of flower, the plants really don't need too much nitrogen. Still, those flowers look nice and plump!!

 

[jdizzle22]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Its day 29 of 12/12 I believe. I can believe an overdose of N as I have been giving what is probably more N than I should have, esp since the flower bottle of EJ has N already. How should I handle it, I ask because I'm not sure of the balance between washing out most of the excess N and removing all the nutes so the plant goes hungry for awhile.

Hey Irish what do you think? I seem to recall seeing your plants doing something similar with the whole going yellow from the inside out instead of from the end/tip to the stem. But I don't remember yours going completely/evenly yellow as mine are.

 

[og crusader]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Its day 29 of 12/12 I believe. I can believe an overdose of N as I have been giving what is probably more N than I should have, esp since the flower bottle of EJ has N already. How should I handle it, I ask because I'm not sure of the balance between washing out most of the excess N and removing all the nutes so the plant goes hungry for awhile.

I would give it a real good flush, with like 5 gallons of water each. If you can use some clear X or salt leaching solution, even better. Its possible you just have a salt buildup in the roots, if you've only been getting a tsp of runoff for the 4 weeks of flower. You really should be flushing your plants every 2 to 3 weeks, just to make sure your roots are free of salt buildup (which causes lockout as well). Also, your plants really only need the nitrogen during the first 3 weeks of flower (during the stretch they are still using it to grow and build), but after the third week, you can start lowering the amount of nitrogen. By the 4th-5th week, the plant really doesn't need a lot of nitrogen, and wants Phosphorous and Potassium.

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Its day 29 of 12/12 I believe. I can believe an overdose of N as I have been giving what is probably more N than I should have, esp since the flower bottle of EJ has N already. How should I handle it, I ask because I'm not sure of the balance between washing out most of the excess N and removing all the nutes so the plant goes hungry for awhile.

Hey Irish what do you think? I seem to recall seeing your plants doing something similar with the whole going yellow from the inside out instead of from the end/tip to the stem. But I don't remember yours going completely/evenly yellow as mine are.

take a pic with that light off i cant really see whats going on, whats ur PH run off? are you feeding every time because you shouldn't be, atleast feed,water,feed,water,ect.. you should have a salt build up because i thought you were all organic. are you letting ur EJ bubble for 24-36 hrs? you need to let that stuff bubble like that. i dont think you have a over dose of N, and thats not really the "CLAW" if u were over dose N the top leaves will be very dark most times. my yellowing was at the top/middle.

we need more info bro, how often u have been feeding? the PH going into the plant? PH run off? what all are you feeding? what type of water? do u let the chlorine bubble out of the tap water? are you over watering? medium? ect..

 

[jdizzle22]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

I use tap water thats been bubbled in a gallon jug with a single 1.5? pump line that I rotate 3-4 times a day for 2-3days before using it. I only bubbled the fert mix once for about 2 days and it didn't seem to have raised the ph at all (so I guess I either require a heating pad and/or more powerful bubbling action). So I've been feeding every other watering (the small .8 gallon plants every other day, and the larger 2 gallon plants every 3 days). I end up using maybe as much as a capful of the Earth Juice pH up potassium-bicarbonate? To get the color of the water in the pH test kit to get about the 6.5 -7 pH color (I've never yet used any pH down). I've been using the Earth Juice line, giving them the micro blast at a tsp per gallon maybe 3 times their whole life. The EJ Veg at 2tsp per gallon up until maybe the end of the second week, and then I think I gave them a tsp of Veg twice since then. I think I've been giving them the EJ Flower at 2tsp and sometimes 3tsp per gallon, and the most recent maybe it was even 4-5 tsp of the EJ flower. I've never watered enough to get more than a tbsp or 2 of run off since the first couple times I water (to get it dialed in). I actually use less than a gallon of water to feed all the plants once. The .8gallon plants get 16oz and the 2gallon plants get 32oz which ends up being a total of 96oz*(a gallon being 128)

Oh and I've been giving the Earth Juice Catalyst at 3-4tsp per gallon

There is one weed growing next to the porch at the front of my house that is possibly quite happy with the leftover nute water its been getting. That is assuming its survived the recent random snow/dry/rain/snow/dry weather

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

I use tap water thats been bubbled in a gallon jug with a single 1.5? pump line that I rotate 3-4 times a day for 2-3days before using it. I only bubbled the fert mix once for about 2 days and it didn't seem to have raised the ph at all (so I guess I either require a heating pad and/or more powerful bubbling action). So I've been feeding every other watering (the small .8 gallon plants every other day, and the larger 2 gallon plants every 3 days). I end up using maybe as much as a capful of the Earth Juice pH up potassium-bicarbonate? To get the color of the water in the pH test kit to get about the 6.5 -7 pH color (I've never yet used any pH down). I've been using the Earth Juice line, giving them the micro blast at a tsp per gallon maybe 3 times their whole life. The EJ Veg at 2tsp per gallon up until maybe the end of the second week, and then I think I gave them a tsp of Veg twice since then. I think I've been giving them the EJ Flower at 2tsp and sometimes 3tsp per gallon, and the most recent maybe it was even 4-5 tsp of the EJ flower. I've never watered enough to get more than a tbsp or 2 of run off since the first couple times I water (to get it dialed in). I actually use less than a gallon of water to feed all the plants once. The .8gallon plants get 16oz and the 2gallon plants get 32oz which ends up being a total of 96oz*(a gallon being 128)

Oh and I've been giving the Earth Juice Catalyst at 3-4tsp per gallon

There is one weed growing next to the porch at the front of my house that is possibly quite happy with the leftover nute water its been getting. That is assuming its survived the recent random snow/dry/rain/snow/dry weather

i dont know the feeding chart of earth juice, but i think you are suppose to only feed every 7 days-14 days. you have to give plain watering and not just choke nutes down them. those PH testers you have are tricky to tell but i thought EJ says on their site or somewhere not to PH. with good organics and good soil you dont need to PH! ive never PH'ed my organic Jacks once and the water going in is 8.0+ PH and ive never let run off come out, but i water feed water, or water,water,feed,water,water. the biggest problem people have is over feeding the plants, plus like i said tons of times to everyone do use PH up or down with organics it will case harm to micro life and mess things up. not saying this is the problem? but could cause trouble. whats the PH run off from the little you get? take some pics with the led light off so we can see what she looks like. N def starts at the bottom. are you mixing the veg EJ with the Bloom? you know they need to be mixed until late flowering, i dont think the bloom has any N? here is a copy paste do a google search and see if ur plants look like a N def.



Nitrogen (N) Mobile Element and Macro Element

Benefit: Nitrogen plays a very big role in your plants; this one element is directly responsible for production of chlorophyll, photosynthesis, Amino Acids, which are the building block of Proteins. The myriad of enzymes which help the plants growth in leaves stems and the how well the vigor of your plants is.

Nitrogen is the biggest mobile element meaning it can travel anywhere on the plant.
Usually the def will start on the lower to middle part of the plant, and then will usually happen to older leaves first. Then the deficiency will work its way up the plant. Your plant can be green on top, then yellowing on the lower leaves when the deficiency is starting out. Yield will be greatly reduced without good amounts of nitrogen in your plants. Sometimes in bad cases the leaves will turn a purplish color along with the yellowing.

Unlike a magnesium deficiency, nitrogen def will start from the tips and work its way back to the leaf node. Nitrogen and Magnesium get confused. The best way to tell them apart is, nitrogen deficiency starts around the tips and works its way to the back of the leaves, where a magnesium deficiency will cover the entire outer part of the leave and make the entire leaves yellow leaving the veins to stay green. If your plants are having a slow growth rate and have yellowing of the leaves, then most likely it's a nitrogen deficiency.
Towards the middle to end of flowering stages, the plant will show a nitrogen deficiency almost always. This process is completely normal and just let the plant naturally yellow out as it uses it's stored nutrients. This actually helps you by getting ready for final flushing and then harvesting. At this point DO NOT not use nitrogen to fix the problem. The yellowing leaves will then eventually drop off after the plant is done with them.

Parts affected by a nitrogen deficiency are: Older foliage, going to whole plant, Petioles (rare) cases.


Now for having too much nitrogen in your growing mediums or soil. The plant will have like an overall DARK green look and have delayed maturity. Due to Nitrogen being involved in vegetative growth, to much nitrogen will result in tall plants with weak stems. New growth will be very lively and plant transpiration will be high, but not always. Nitrogen toxicity can be seen when there are very very dry conditions almost as if there was a drought, which may show a burning effect. If you give your plants ammonium based nutrients they may show NH4+ toxicity, which will show a smaller plant growth and lesions that occur on stems and roots, leaf margins that will roll downward. Also the big fan leaves will have "the claw" look. The tips will point down but the leaves will stay up as if when you bend your fingers downwards. Leaves can be twisted when growing... mainly new growths. Roots will be under developed along with the slowing of flowering. Yields will be decreased, because to much nitrogen in early stages of flowering slows down bud growth. Water uptake is slowing down from the vascular breakdown of the plants as well. Too much potassium and nitrogen will lock out calcium as well.


Problems with Nitrogen being locked out by PH troubles.
Waterlogged soil and Soil with low organic matter.

Nitrogen is a very important element in the plant, all of them are but some are more important than others. For soil the best ph to have is 6.8. Why? Because at 6.8, that's the best number for ALL available nutrients to be absorbed into the plant without any of them being locked out. For hydro and soil less mediums best ph to have is around 5.8.
Try not to keep your plants to cold, because the cold temps will cause the nitrogen harder for the plant to be absorbed.

PH levels for Nitrogen:

Soil levels
Nitrogen gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 4.0- 5.5.
Nitrogen is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.0-8.0. ( wouldn't recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) best range to have nitrogen is a ph of 6-7. Anything out of that range will contribute to a nitrogen def.


Hydro and Soil less Mediums
Nitrogen gets locked out of Hydro, Soil less mediums at the levels of 4.5-5.0.
Nitrogen has the best absorption rate at a ph of 5.5 to 8.0
(Wouldn't recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range to have Nitrogen is: 5.0-7.0. Anything out of that range will contribute to a nitrogen def.


Solution to fixing a Nitrogen deficiency

Avoid excessive ammonium nitrogen, which can interfere with other nutrients. Too much N delays flowering. Plants should be allowed to become N-deficient late in flowering for best flavor.
A goof solid N-P-K ratio will fix any nitrogen deficiency. Any chemical or organic fertilizers that have Nitrogen in them will fix a nitrogen deficiency., Peters all purpose plant food 20-20-20 is good, Miracle grow All purpose plant food, Miracle grow Tomato plant food, (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients, or it will cause nutrient burn!) as well and blood meal! If you need to give your plants a quick solution to nitrogen and you want to use blood meal, I suggest making it into a tea for faster use, where blood meal is slow acting, but when made into a tea it works quicker! Other sources of nitrogen are dried blood, Cotton seed meal which is slow acting, Insect eating bat guano which is fast acting. Bone meal which is a gradual absorption when not made into a tea.( also excellent source of phosphorus). Fish Meal Or Fish Emulsion is a good source of nitrogen and is medium acting. Worm castings, which is gradual absorption. Seabird guano, All purpose Millennia Seabird guano, Orginal Seabird guano All Purpose, Crabshell ,which is slow absorption. Fox Farm Grow Big, which is fast acting. ( can bring down your ph as well)
Here are a list of things that help fix a Nitrogen Deficiency:

Chemical Nutrients

Advanced nutrients Grow (2-1-6)
Vita Grow (4-0-0),
BC Grow(1.2-3.2-6.5)
GH Flora Grow (2-1-6)
GH Maxi grow (10-5-14)
GH floraNova grow (7-4-10),
Dyna gro Grow (7-9-5)

Organic Nutrients

Dr. Hornby's Iguana Juice Grow (3-1-3)
Advanced Nutrients Mother Earth Grow (1.5-.75-1.5)
Earthjuice Grow (2-1-1),
Pure Blend Pro (3-1.5-4)
Bone Meal(0-10-0)
Blood Meal(12-0-0)
Fish Emulsion (5-1-1)
Seabird Guano (11-13-3)
Crab Shells(2.5-3.0-.5)
Pure Blend Grow (0.4-.01-.5)
Marine Cuisine (10-7-7)
MaxiCrop Seaweed (1-0-3)
Super Tea (5-5-1)
Mexican Bat Guano (10-2-0)
Sea Island Jamaican Bat Guano (1-10-0)
Kelp Meal (1-0-2)
Seaweed Plus Iron
Neptune's Harvest (2-4-0.5)
Alaska Start-Up(2-1-2)
Bio-Grow (1.8-0.1-6.6)
Age old Grow (12-6-6)
AGE Old Kelp (.30-.25-.15)
Neptune's Harvest (2-4-1)
Maxicrop Seweed(.1-0-1)
METANATURALS Organic grow (3-3-3)
METANATURALS Organic nitrogen (16-0-0)

So adding anyone of these above should fix up your nitrogen deficiency! Nitrogen deficient plants usually recover in about a week, affected leaves will not recover.


Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics, (which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) you need to flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients. Soluble nitrogen (especially nitrate) is the form that's the most quickly available to the roots, while insoluble N (like urea) first needs to be broken down by microbes in the soil before the roots can absorb it.


Note: Blood Meal, Dried Blood, Guanos, Kelp Meal, Cotton Seed Meal, Peat Moss, Sulfur and fish meal are all acidic and can bring your ph down, so if you add these please monitor your ph when using those.

Note: Bone Meal, Rock Phosphate, Wood Ashes pretty much all ashes, Shellfish Compost and Crab Meal are all alkaline and can make your ph go up, so if you add any of these please monitor your ph.


Here are 3 pics of what a nitrogen def looks like.... the first one is a nitrogen deficiency in vegging. the 2nd picture is nitrogen def in flowering; THis is completely normal for mid to late flowering; as you would want your plant to naturally yellow at the end. DO NOT add nitrogen supplement to fix the problem; just let the plant yellow as cannabis does towards the end of flowering. The last picture is one that is caused by TO MUCH Nitrogen.

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

here you go bro, read threw this and match up what sounds/looks like ur plant. Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver - Pictorial

 

[jdizzle22]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Here are the pics of the plants in more normal light you asked for

It does seem as if all the non bud leaves are just starting to fade to light green or are just not as dark as I imagine they should be. Today they are all due to be watered but I'd thought I'd wait and see if anyone changed their minds based on these pics and recommend something besides flushing. But hey maybe they are lighter green or getting bleached from the 395w 2011 Spectra being only 10 inches above the very top tip? if they are getting bleached its very slowly or not getting any worse because I never noticed they were any different until I took them out in the normal light just now to really look at em.

PS: I believe the very top leaves on the plant on the left that look super light green compared to the rest is an effect of the flash

PSS: Oh and that sorta wall of dead plant on its backside, well that is its backside that is between the outer edge of the LED light and the wall of the tent (pretty sure they weren't getting as much light as they would like). At first I thought the plant was just letting them die because they weren't running efficiently from too little light. But then this issue starting spreading upwards to leaves that should have been well lit.

PSSS: Oh I guess the Earth Juice Bloom isn't supposed to have N in it
PSSSS: Hey Irish do you have any links to info about not adding pH up to organic nute water? I just feel like I would be killing my soil/plants without adding pH up because when I pH test my nute water it comes out at red/4 or lower. I'm willing to try never pH upping on my next grow without some kind of proof of what you say about not pH adjusting, I mean do you really add low pH water nutes or do you bubble it up to 6.5?* I think I may have the bubbling wrong, what should I do for a gallon jug?

 

[McCrackin]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Here are the pics of the plants in more normal light you asked for

It does seem as if all the non bud leaves are just starting to fade to light green or are just not as dark as I imagine they should be. Today they are all due to be watered but I'd thought I'd wait and see if anyone changed their minds based on these pics and recommend something besides flushing. But hey maybe they are lighter green or getting bleached from the 395w 2011 Spectra being only 10 inches above the very top tip? if they are getting bleached its very slowly or not getting any worse because I never noticed they were any different until I took them out in the normal light just now to really look at em.

PS: I believe the very top leaves on the plant on the left that look super light green compared to the rest is an effect of the flash

PSS: Oh and that sorta wall of dead plant on its backside, well that is its backside that is between the outer edge of the LED light and the wall of the tent (pretty sure they weren't getting as much light as they would like). At first I thought the plant was just letting them die because they weren't running efficiently from too little light. But then this issue starting spreading upwards to leaves that should have been well lit.

Classic Nitrogen Nutrition Deficiency in bloom. They look almost done so its okay.

I suggest not giving them a full nitrogen feeding. Instead, barely add any Nitrogen 50-80 ppm to your regular bloom nutes. This is a situation wherein giving a full dose of nitrogen can cause the plant to burn really easy.

When there is not enough nitrogen as in this situation, the plant gets a type of nitrogen hypoxia and starts pulling nutes from its fan leaves. Your plant has no cellular defenses for regular nitrogen feedings and the rest of the plant can get burned fast.

I think these plants are looking great. They just need a little N to make it the distance.

Slowly put in low dose N so the buds don't suffer for the next week or two to keep everything moving along. Then in the last week or two the flush should starve them out again.

And it is a preference thing I guess, but I would cut off all the yellowing and dead fan leaves to prevent molds and disease, but that my thing, meticulous trimming.

 

[jdizzle22]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Are you sure because a couple other people figured it was an overdoes of N and a lock up of nutes? I mean its possible you are right, I don't believe that Earth Juice is as concentrated or as high on the #-#-# scale as say Fox Farm. Perhaps I have not been compensating enough for that?

I don't think they look almost done as this is only really day 30 of 12/12 And they are just getting to that point where grow n00bs might harvest early and then you find out their plants were only around 6 weeks into 12/12

So McCrackin you think I don't need to flush but should feed low does of N rich Veg nute?

I don't have enough experience with plant issues (only 2nd grow) to tell whats going on and know what to do. If I don't hear much on this in the next 1-2 hours I'm going to water them all with plain water and give them a little more than normal (as I only have a gallon prepped and no non tap water available).

 

[Bandit420]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

High Jdizzle22,
I think I can offer another opinion on this...
Since you're using airpots and a light that will cause your plants to feed heavier than normal you've created a situation where these plants are gorging on both nutes and water to build the buds. They're feeding so heavy it's probably at about twice the normal rate of a plant that is not in an airpot
This far along the root system has filled up the pots and needs a really good soaking probably every other day or every two days. You really want to saturate these airpot plants. Over watering is nearly impossible at this point. A good way to do it without the massive runoffs from top feed watering is to dunk the entire pot in a 5 gallon bucket or a tub filled with enough of water/nute solution to cover the entire pot. Hold the pot under water until there are no more air bubbles coming up. Then pull the pot out and let it drain. This will ensure the entire root ball is wet. Dont worry about the air being pushed out of the pots. In airpots the roots will become oxygenated again within minutes
I also agree with McCrackin in that these plants are basically cannibalising themselves to ensure survival and for reproducing purposes. Feed them well and often with mild N and a good balance of every other nute. Something with a NPK value of around 4-8-8 should do the trick.
If this was an overdose situation the entire plant would be fried, not just the bottom or they would be a very dark green all over if the overdose was not fatal. The curling or shriveling of a few of the bottom leaves is from the colas bleeding them dry.

 

[jdizzle22]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Yeah you could definitely be right. I keep finding the NPK ratio of Earth Juice is

Earth Juice Grow 2-1-1
Earth Juice Bloom 0-3-1

So I probably have been not feeding them enough with them being under the Spectra and in airpots. So you guys think I should just use a little grow each time I feed nute instead of a fair amount at once?

Would it be better to flush first then wait a few days to start feeding again just to be safe or could that cause more harm then feeding them again and possibly over feeding? I think I won't use nutes today and give them a little extra water so I can get more advice on this before going one way or the other for better or worse.

I'll try and get some pH readings with my crappy $5pH probe and color drip test

 

[Bandit420]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Yeah you could definitely be right. I keep finding the NPK ratio of Earth Juice is

Earth Juice Grow 2-1-1
Earth Juice Bloom 0-3-1

So I probably have been not feeding them enough with them being under the Spectra and in airpots. So you guys think I should just use a little grow each time I feed nute instead of a fair amount at once?

Would it be better to flush first then wait a few days to start feeding again just to be safe or could that cause more harm then feeding them again and possibly over feeding?

I just looked at the Earth Juice schedule on their site and it is very mild. I would'nt flush w/ plain water. I would probably start by going with mild to normal strength grow and strong strength bloom from here until final flush. A good bloom supplement could also be added to make sure those buds have all the food they need. At this stage of bloom it's kinda hard to overfeed them unless you get crazy with the nute strength. Give them nutes with every other watering and that should satisfy their appetite

 

[jdizzle22]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Yeah I have been and I was using several tsp of bloom and 1-2 of grow (every other nute feeding) and 3-4tsp of catalyst with 1tsp of micro 3 times in their life

I just got done testing the bigger 3 plants in the 2 gallon airpots. The soil pH probe reading all came out at 6.4-6.7 except one that came out as 6. I got about a cup of runoff water from watering the 3 2gallon airpots like normal, the ph of the water going in was 6.5-6.7 and the water coming out was also 6.5-6.7 even with its obvious brown/dirty water look and all the debris (which could be throwing off the reading a bit but I don't think by more than .1 or .2)

Gonna do the same with the smaller ones right now. I may water them again today with nutes, as it does feel more like they must be hungry than over fed (unless they are hungry because they were over fed and can't eat ugh this stuff is tough to figure out). The water didn't look any murkier but the pH on the water runoff of the smaller plants was definitely atleast 1.5 or 2 points higher than that of the bigger plants, accourding to the test the pH was over 8.5. I didn't PPM test the water of the larger plants, but my fresh tap is 30ppm and the runnoff from the smaller plants was 900-1000. Could the discrepency be from not using enough water on each of the larger plants to really flush out enough for a good pH reading?

crap i should have tested the ppm of the run off

UPDATE: So I just got done testing the smaller .8gallon air pot plants and their soil pH appears to be ideal. I had to give them twice as much water as I normally give them to get a cupful of run off to pH test and so maybe that changed things over the bigger pots (each of the bigger plants got normally watered but with 3 of them I was able to get enough runoff). Runoff pH of the smaller plants was clearly higher than that of the larger plants and according to the color test over 8.5 pH. PPM runoff for the smaller plants was 900-1000 (i didn't test the run off of each plant, i mixed theirs together) and I forgot to check the runoff on the larger ones. This seems strange because the smaller plants don't seem to be any worse off or have any other opposing readings except in runoff pH.

I'm going to give the larger ones a little more water and see if that changes the results of the pH test and see what their ppm is like

UPDATE 2: Just watered the big ones some more to get a better pH runoff reading and PPM. The PH was definitely higher this time but not as high as the small plants. And the ppm was only half that of the smaller plants at about 430. I have definitely given the smaller nutes more often (sometimes when their water day ends up the same I give the smaller ones food from mixing it for the bigger ones even if the smaller ones werent supposed to be fed that day). So that accounts for the higher pH and high ppm.

Should I be worried at all that the runnoff pH is so high even though the pH probe got good readings?

What is an ideal ppm for soil runoff?

Sorry for hijacking your thread so bad Irish I know you say its ok but I still feel bad, at least I can say it relates because our lights are from the same guy!

UPDATE 3: have been reading a guide and it said that this kind of nitrogen deficient looking yellowing is totally normal for mid flowering and n nutes should not be given? But then it said this

"Yield will be greatly reduced without good amounts of nitrogen in your plants. Sometimes in bad cases the leaves will turn a purplish colour along with the yellowing."

Which happened to one of my bagseed plants in my first grow (this is my 2nd grow). So I'm not sure what to do again!* But I think it must not be a lack of N from overfeeding because I don't think the soil pH is high enough to lock out the N

UPDATE 4: I'm going to try watering the smaller plants some more to drop the ppm down closer to the big plants and then water them with nutes. I'm pretty sure the yellowing isn't from too much N, its probably a bit of normal mid flower yellowing and not enough N

 

[Happybman]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Hi Irish
Noob here just finnished reading all but you're first grow that you have on your sig and wow if it doesn't all leek out I learned alot had to do it strait to. man could go for one now. thought I would thank you and everyone for the info. going to be starting my first grow soon. I am a tech hound and want to use all the latest tech I can find. thanks to you I am sure I will be using LED's and from Mike would love to try those plasma lights but $7k per light that is nuts going to try a perpetual grow with 4 small rooms one clone mother room and 3 flower. working out the exact size for my space but they will be at least 2'x4'x4' and since they are going to be so short I want to try hydro as I can see you are not using it would you recommend a member to learn from here. also do you or anyone recommend LST or maybe scrog for this low of a space. sorry for the novel got caried away with my first post. thanks again for the info from the threads

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

look like N is lacking, if ur run off is good then its not a PH problem. if your not feeding the EJ grow in flowering then thats the issue. remember N is the most leached out when you get run off. you should have a feed routine around these lines in this thread with the EJ A top nutrient study - Which is the best? Produces most?

i dont have any links about the none PHing i just read a crap load of stuff and dont save it because i load it in my brain, but a Google search will show you all you need about PHing and organics. i dont bubble my water unless i am making a tea or have Earthworm castings. my PH is always higher around 8.8 or around their i dont really know i dont ever check it. in order not to PH you must have good micro life in your soil and stay friendly to your micro life and not kill them. but i never PH'ed once with my jacks and my buddy dosent either and his plants kick ass. you have to have things dialed in for this and have all the little homies working for you in the soil.

you plants dont look close to being done, witch is good because they seem to look great at that stage in the buds, if you werent adding the grow to your bloom food then thats ur issue. you should not get yellowing in mid flowering only late flowering, their too young for that, also in week 3-4 they like more N. read the back of your bottle because the micro blast shouldnt be added all the time and some of their others i believe, IDK i never used EJ just read about it. i would make sure you dont feed all the time and add more of the grow to get some N going into them.

just go threw that link i posted and make sure the sings they say with that Def is exactly what you see, shit can get tricky. 1st thing is to look where its starting at on ur plant then what leaves are effected. read threw that link a few times it will save your ass, trust me.

no worries about the thread jack we need to get ur girls fixed

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Hi Irish
Noob here just finnished reading all but you're first grow that you have on your sig and wow if it doesn't all leek out I learned alot had to do it strait to. man could go for one now. thought I would thank you and everyone for the info. going to be starting my first grow soon. I am a tech hound and want to use all the latest tech I can find. thanks to you I am sure I will be using LED's and from Mike would love to try those plasma lights but $7k per light that is nuts going to try a perpetual grow with 4 small rooms one clone mother room and 3 flower. working out the exact size for my space but they will be at least 2'x4'x4' and since they are going to be so short I want to try hydro as I can see you are not using it would you recommend a member to learn from here. also do you or anyone recommend LST or maybe scrog for this low of a space. sorry for the novel got caried away with my first post. thanks again for the info from the threads

thanks for the kind post my friend, i am glad i could be some help.
as far as hydro grower, ill have to think about that one for a min, cant think off of the top of my head. what kind of hydro?
ya the plasma looks cool but not for that price tag ill wait until the prices drop way lower.
i am a big fan of LST or SCROG, its a great way to max out yield, i always LST and want to mess around with SCROGing ive seen some very impressive grows with it.

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

about to harvest this weekend and getting new girls this week, so i was wondering what you guys thought would be better? start a new thread or keep this one rolling?

 

[jdizzle22]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

look like N is lacking, if ur run off is good then its not a PH problem. if your not feeding the EJ grow in flowering then thats the issue. remember N is the most leached out when you get run off. you should have a feed routine around these lines in this thread with the EJ A top nutrient study - Which is the best? Produces most?

i dont have any links about the none PHing i just read a crap load of stuff and dont save it because i load it in my brain, but a Google search will show you all you need about PHing and organics. i dont bubble my water unless i am making a tea or have Earthworm castings. my PH is always higher around 8.8 or around their i dont really know i dont ever check it. in order not to PH you must have good micro life in your soil and stay friendly to your micro life and not kill them. but i never PH'ed once with my jacks and my buddy dosent either and his plants kick ass. you have to have things dialed in for this and have all the little homies working for you in the soil.

you plants dont look close to being done, witch is good because they seem to look great at that stage in the buds, if you werent adding the grow to your bloom food then thats ur issue. you should not get yellowing in mid flowering only late flowering, their too young for that, also in week 3-4 they like more N. read the back of your bottle because the micro blast shouldnt be added all the time and some of their others i believe, IDK i never used EJ just read about it. i would make sure you dont feed all the time and add more of the grow to get some N going into them.

just go threw that link i posted and make sure the sings they say with that Def is exactly what you see, shit can get tricky. 1st thing is to look where its starting at on ur plant then what leaves are effected. read threw that link a few times it will save your ass, trust me.

no worries about the thread jack we need to get ur girls fixed

I have given them the Veg nutes during flower at least 3-4, but with EJ being less potent than I had been imagining I problem didn't get them enough. I just finished running a bunch of water through each. Do you guys think it would be best to water them with nutes today or after a day or 2 and should it be back at full strength following the semi flush or no?

PS: I have a couple pics without LED coming up that help show the damage in a better light.

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

I have given them the Veg nutes during flower at least 3-4, but with EJ being less potent than I had been imagining I problem didn't get them enough. I just finished running a bunch of water through each. Do you guys think it would be best to water them with nutes today or after a day or 2 and should it be back at full strength following the semi flush or no?

PS: I have a couple pics without LED coming up that help show the damage in a better light.

i would let them dry up a little before adding food now, dont want to over water them. folair feeding is a great way to fix things, not sure how well EJ works as a folair feeding though? but something with N will work faster threw the leaves just take it easy on it and make sure not to spray the buds. or if your soil drys out fast then hit them with the EJ grow.

no worries about posting pics on here i only ask that no one post pics right after i post some of my pics of my plants. it really throws things off when that happens, besides that i dont care. but i do think you will get more help if you started a thread asking about this, some people get burnt out in reading all the post of this thread and it get put on that back burner with some members, i do it also.lol. so starting a new thread would be a good idea also and see if you can get more input.