A friend is in need

[gazmufc]

Hey folks

A friend of mine is having some issues with his plants. Would yous have a look to see what's up and what he can possibly do to fix them. Thanks in advance..

 

[Roy Growin]

The bottles come with dosage instructions - why would anyone decide they know better than the manufacturers?

 

[gazmufc]

He told me there that when he doses the full strength as stated. It sends the ppm to 1400, and he's only in veg. 900 is what is recommended in veg so he adjusted to that. He is wondering what the deficiencies are so he can see if the corresponds with the lack of nutrients?

 

[Melville Hobbes]

I'm not great with deficiencies, but I'm seeing both calcium and phosphorus def there.
The last pic looks like the beginning of a potassium deficiency too.

 

[SamSmith]

A Comprehensive Guide to Cannabis Plant Nutrient Deficiencies and Solutions | Fast Buds

What are, how to prevent and how to fix cannabis nutrient deficiencies.

2fast4buds.com

 

[Roy Growin]

Don't measure it and it won't bother you - if the bottle says 5ml/L just do it
Phosphorous, Potassium, Calcium, Boron and Molybdenum deficiencies will all show similar symptoms on the leaf

 

[bluter]

i don't see any base nutes.

edit : the 3-2-4 product isn't for cannabis. i'm guessing that and the mammoth P is the backbone of his nute schedule. i'm not sure it's working for him.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

i don't see any base nutes.

edit : the 3-2-4 product isn't for cannabis. i'm guessing that and the mammoth P is the backbone of his nute schedule. i'm not sure it's working for him.

Wouldn't the "pure blend grow" be the base?

 

[bluter]

Wouldn't the "pure blend grow" be the base?

not a straight up cannabis nute. our balance is closer to 2-1-3.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

When I looked it up it said 3-2-4, maybe botanicare thinks that's close enough.

 

[bluter]

When I looked it up it said 3-2-4, maybe botanicare thinks that's close enough.

i see they have a few different feed charts. i'm wondering if there is a cannabis specific chart. in all cases though there is a second product for flower.

i know they sell the product at a local landscape shop that also does hydro, but i haven't seen it in a hydro shop specializing in cannabis. it might have the stretch to do it, but my money is on a feeding issue.

 

[seaofgreen18]

Howdy my 2 cents . A dichotomous key offers clearly defined options for the investigator. To begin our key we first need to determine where on the plant we first started seeing issues. This is another reason that regular scouting should be performed by the same individuals. If scouting is delayed or skipped altogether it will be next to impossible to determine where the issue first started showing on your plant. This is incredibly important as the location of the initial deficiency clue will tell you whether the nutrient is mobile or immobile within the plant.

Obviously all nutrients are "mobile" as they have to move into the plant. What we are discussing is whether they are able to be translocated from one location in the plant to another. If they are able to translocate then they are mobile. The apical or growing tips of the plant are the most important to the plant for reproduction so they will get the benefit of moving mobile elements from the lower leaves to the top leaves if sufficiency is not maintained throughout the growing cycle. That is why you will see mobile element symptoms at the bottom of the plant. Those nutrients are being sacrificed in lower tissues and reallocated to the important growing, apical tips.

If an element is immobile it cannot be translocated. Therefore, if there are insufficient mineral nutrients for an immobile element it will show in the growing tips first. If a nutrient is partially mobile then you will see it throughout the entirety of the plant.

 

[seaofgreen18]

Don't mean to be boring just trying to help BIOTIC OR ABIOTIC

Experienced growers who perform regular scouting can easily recognize patterns in their canopy. With multiple cultivars, as most cannabis growers tend to run, this can get tricky. However, if you pay attention to each cultivar as its own project it is greatly simplified. Growers should be looking for areas of chlorosis, yellowing of the plants, and necrosis, brown dead tissue that cannot regenerate. Wilting and leaf angles are more important as environmental signalers rather than as indicators for nutrient issues and we will discuss that separately. The first step we need to take in diagnosing a plant issue is to determine the cause of the visual cues we are evaluating. That first step is to determine if the cause of your plant's stress is biotic (think pests and pathogens) or abiotic (think nutrients and environment).

A biotic symptom is almost always displayed randomly throughout the crop, unless you wait far too long and then it will affect the entire crop. Pests and pathogens tend to jump around from area to area and plant to plant, skipping some plants entirely and going after others. Be sure to include a sufficiently strong scope in your scouting tool kit. Examine the underside of leaves with a strong handheld scope. The crucial importance of proper scouting can not be over emphasized! A real life example would be a grower showing signs of K deficiency that after scoping realized he had been fighting russet mites for months with K inputs! You can't act appropriately without a proper identification, regardless of whether you are dealing with a biotic or an abiotic issue. If you are looking at an individual plant for symptoms ask yourself if there is a discernible pattern on the leaves? If you were to fold a leaf over would it line up with damage on the other side fairly consistently? If your response is yes and you are seeing patterns; entire benches or quadrants within your canopy, then you are most likely dealing with an abiotic stress. Abiotic stresses are caused by nutrient issues and environmental issues. If you find that you are dealing with a pest issue you deal with that accordingly Good Luck

 

[Azimuth]

The bottles come with dosage instructions - why would anyone decide they know better than the manufacturers?

He told me there that when he doses the full strength as stated. It sends the ppm to 1400, and he's only in veg. 900 is what is recommended in veg so he adjusted to that. He is wondering what the deficiencies are so he can see if the corresponds with the lack of nutrients?

So he's running 50% of the recommendations because he read somewhere else that ppm's should be in some range, and at 50% he's getting deficiencies. Shouldn't that inform him that that plant at least wants more than 50%? Has he even tried increasing the amount of nutrients?

Bluter may be right in that these aren't even the right combinations of nutes, but I agree with Roy, the nute company gives specific recommendations so your friend shouldn't be surprised that he's getting a different results by making up his own usage schedule.

I get it if he's an experienced grower and can look at a plant and tell whether it needs more or less of something and adjust accordingly, but your friend doesn't sound like he's in that camp.

 

[gazmufc]

So he's running 50% of the recommendations because he read somewhere else that ppm's should be in some range, and at 50% he's getting deficiencies. Shouldn't that inform him that that plant at least wants more than 50%? Has he even tried increasing the amount of nutrients?

Bluter may be right in that these aren't even the right combinations of nutes, but I agree with Roy, the nute company gives specific recommendations so your friend shouldn't be surprised that he's getting a different results by making up his own usage schedule.

I get it if he's an experienced grower and can look at a plant and tell whether it needs more or less of something and adjust accordingly, but your friend doesn't sound like he's in that camp.

You're spot on Azimuth. Yes he has just recently started growing.. He had to trash his first 2 runs
I still consider myself very in experienced. But I know u should have a fan blowing directly on to the plants.. His last 2 runs the first plant closet to the fan was getting toasted lol.. He wudnt listen to my advice, so what can u do .. I've told him several times he needs to set up and account here so he can talk to more experienced growers on a daily basies. I do joke with him.. "you must be rich, that u can just burn through so much money for growing within any rewards at end of it"
Thanks for the inputs..

 

[Azimuth]

We see this all the time. A grower with little experience sees some process or way of growing and decides that sounds perfect, except they're going to change some things to tweak it to make it better. They get worse results and for the life of them can't figure out why their plants don't look like other growers'.

Why not do a run by the book and then at least you'll have something to compare all your special tweaks to. I try to run any new technique I try by the book first, see what I learn and then try my own spin to see if it helps. Most of the time the original way is best because that's a process that's already gone through the tweaking phase, we're just seeing the final iterations.

But, like you say, eventually he'll want to stop flushing money and his tweaks will bring him closer to what's already been figured out as the best way to do it.

 

[bluter]

Don't mean to be boring just trying to help

oh shit i've been assuming your posts were all AI bot generated by the way they read

I still consider myself very in experienced. He wudnt listen to my advice, so what can u do

you're still doing better than he is ... why doesn't he just copy your approach ?

 

[SmokingWings]

A friend of mine is having some issues with his plants. Would yous have a look to see what's up and what he can possibly do to fix them.

I figure that the "Foxfire soil" is actually one of the Fox Farms soils. And if it is Fox Farms soil then I am pretty sure that the company mentions on its web site and the bags of soil that the grower has to start a fertilizer program several weeks after the plant starts growing, especially so for a heavy feeder annual like the Cannabis plant in the photos.

He told me there that when he doses the full strength as stated. It sends the ppm to 1400, and he's only in veg.

I figure that he is getting numbers he does not like because he is growing in soil and using a line of fertilizers and nutrients that are more popular with hydroponic growers than with soil gardeners. Some of those products either say right on the bottle or on the web site that they have low, very low, NPK numbers and that they have to be fed once a day, every day which is hard to do with soil without making that soil soggy.

900 is what is recommended in veg so he adjusted to that.

Like @Roy Growin mentions "Don't measure it and it won't bother you -" so if you buddy stops chasing a "hydro style grow number" then it will not bother him with his soil grow. With a soil method there is no need to measure the 'run off' for ppm or pH or any of the numbers that are very important to successful hydro grows.

The only number a soil grower needs to work with that will be related to his or her soil style grow is the pH of the water going in, that is the water that will be used to water the plants. And, if mixing fertilizers with the water then measure the pH just before pouring on the soil. And the water pH should be brought up to 6.3 and not 6.5 pH for the best uptake of any nutrients. Skip chasing numbers in a soil grow and a growing lifestyle becomes easier.

He is wondering what the deficiencies are so he can see if the corresponds with the lack of nutrients?

Probably will but with that line-up of fertilizers it will be hard to adjust to compensate. Best to just start feeding according to the schedules on each bottle. Or, buy some fertilizers specifically meant for soil instead of hydroponics. Or even better yet, buy the fertilizers made by the same company that makes the soil mix. That way they will be able to help out when something is not going quite right.

I did look up most of the products in the photo to refresh my thoughts on what was involved with each. One of the nutrients deficiencies mentioned earlier was Phosphorous. The Mammoth is a unique blend of micro-organisms meant to help a plant, especially in soil, take up available Phosphorous. It would be hard to pick up on the reason for the deficiency just by looking at NPK numbers. And, the Mammoth does little for the plant at half dose.

 

[SmokingWings]

Don't mean to be boring just trying to help BIOTIC OR ABIOTIC

What would help is if you mention where you are quoting from when you copy and paste. I don't know about the rest of the people here but I tend to follow links that could contain useful/helpful info.

 

[seaofgreen18]

@SmokingWings
KIS Organics: Organic Gardening Supplies and Soils