AK-48 Planted 10-19-15 From Seed

[swwilson20]

This is the tallest plant and used to be the best. Here's some background on everything:
70-78 and a little under 50% RH, I kept it much higher during seedling. 50-60% and higher when it was humid outside
I'm using Roots Organics Original Soil and Roots Organics nutes
3-gal fabric pots
Solar Flare 220w Full cycle (no switch for grow and bloom) 165w max
2x2.5x5.5 Gorilla Grow tent
4" 178 cfm inline with carbon filter
2 6" clip on fans
1 8in "tower" style fan
I have been using tap water but have used RO and distilled before.

Okay so I started off in 1 gal pots, straight from a seed. They all sprouted good enough and I think my light was 24-30" away at that time. I basically overwatered the first 2 weeks at least, and by the time I figured it out the damage was done, and to top it off the water I was using was 9.5 pH. I still use the tap water but adjust to 6.5 now and have since early Nov. For one reason or another I didn't listen to what everyone has said about the kind of soil I'm using which is don't add nutes. I added 2tsp of Buddha Grow to 5L of water around the middle of Nov. By this time I had so much yellow shit it was hard to tell anything, and I deduced it was all from overwatering and kept on going. The most I used was 1 tbsp with a gallon and have used a light dose of cal-mag periodically.

Here's where it gets fun. I knew I was getting close to up-potting and I started feeling pressure bc my plants are getting to the point where I need to start thinking about flower. They weren't healthy at this point at all which was a little over a week ago. I always felt that those first two weeks messed everything up. I used 9.5pH water (at that time that is ALL I was using, but my tap water has all the typical shit and probably more, still don't like using my tap water but I live on the 3rd floor, fuck RO or distilled). I should have flushed long before I did, but here again, I've made a lot of mistakes and I look forward to my second grow. But I have this right now, so let's do it. I flushed AND up-potted from 1-gal to the 3-gal pots they are in now in the same day. I flushed with roughly 10 gallons at 6.5 ph and the last gallon I used 2 tsp of the stuff called Trinity. I have seen several people talk about kelp and molasses. This was roughly 10 days ago. I watered with 16 oz on 12-13 ( 48 hrs ago)

 

[swwilson20]

Oops I didn't mean to post the same pic twice. This is the tallest plant I think she is about 15" tall. That lowest fan leaf with the wayyy brown tip are the first set of fan leaves. I suck at anatomy of these gals so any pointers are welcome. I'm only referring to the fan leaves that grow by themselves.

 

[swwilson20]

Both are of same plant and from last night.

 

[swwilson20]

I always thought that lowest fan leaf was Mag deff. I don't know if that's actually the case or not. But when it first started I got some cal-mag and have used light dosages every other feeding since. Except this last flush and the 2 cups I watered with 2 days ago. Ill get some more pics up of the others

 

[swwilson20]

 

[swwilson20]

I can't post any better pics tonight, but I will get them up tomorrow night without the LED on. I don't have a very fancy camera by any means, but it can do some stuff if need be. What is the best way to capture the different colors of the plant besides not using flash? I can't ever seem to depict the plants as they are in a pic..

 

[Papageno]

Alrighty...Well this aint that bad and we can do a number of things. I want you to take some time and read another journal I am helping that is way worse. You will learn a lot and it will motivate you to finish these off.

In this guys journal we are going to whack them all the way back and restart them.
Nivana's Chrystal 11 Weeks Into Veg - Advice Welcome!



So first things first. You had some nute issues but you flushed so if you did a good job at that then that part of it is in the past. Secondly leaves grow once and do not repair so if they were damaged they will stay that way. That DOES NOT mean remove them. If they are not helping the plant anymore they will come off easily by hand. But until we recover these we are not pruning stuff except for specific reasons which we will get to later... and it wont be Fan leaves.

The bigger problem is you have a lot of light and heat stress. I know you say you have good temps so you have too intense of lights. I looked up that LED and they recommended to have it 4 feet up from the 5x5 floor. So you want that about 4 feet above the canopy. I would for now, since everything is stressed and a mess, move it to the top of the tent (by the way we have the same tent). You are not going to get these to the finish line FAST. We are going to recover these then restart the veg cycle and redo this grow. So get the light up high so it isn't stressing the plants. At least 3 feet from the tops.


Okay next the flush looks to have worked. The new growth is looking better. Again since leaves do not heal all you can do to judge after the flush is look at the new growth.

I never use less than 5 gallon pots and I prefer much larger. We are fine in 3 gallons through recovery. After we rebound these we are going to put them in minimum 7 gallon pots. We will want to get them good and root bound in here first to prove that the roots have been fixed.

Now 1/3 of the plant is roots so to ignore them is a stupid thing to do. You already wrote down that you did a lot of things that could have killed roots and caused disease or other problems. We want to get into the root zone right away and fix it. In the journal I linked you to at some point I linked him to a home made bacterial and supper fertilizer tea of mine we are going to want to make and dump in there after the next dry out. The tea takes 24 hours or so to make. you will want to stir it every few hours so it is a good thing to do over a weekend. You will need a bunch of cheap things, one kind of expensive thing but you should have an enzyme handy anyway, and an air pump and air stone. Read through the journal where in I explain everything you need to know and then come ask questions.

We are going to let the root zone first dry out, then put a few cups of the tea into each plant, then drive it in with a healthy dose of pH'd water and that will reinvigorate and fix the roots.

After that the plant will be looking nice. Then we are going to have a good conversation about whacking that top off and starting a new grow. It isn't necessary but if you want to really get those to give you some good yield we are going to need to shorten and fatten that plant. It may be that they are the right size and don't need to after we rejuvenate these. But you had some issues and now you have a bunch of stretch and the plant is just not properly shaped. If we whacked it back 50% then we will get a lot of new branching from below and have a nice even canopy and get double the yield. But we don't want to do that until we have it rebounded and growing healthy.

If you are on board with this I would go ahead and pinch of the very top right now to force the growth down to the lower branches because it does look to already be rebounding nicely.

I think it is healthy enough to be whacked back all the way to here..

But that will stunt growth for a few days. Not a big deal...we already gave up on a quick fast harvest.

Lets get the root zone fixed, then get some healthy rebound, then shape the plant properly for bloom and them we can start the bloom.


Sound fair?

 

[swwilson20]

I'm not opposed to any of this, as it's the best way for me to learn. I don't understand it through means of dynamics of the plant and what makes it tick, obviously... But you do, and if you are on board which through all the stuff of yours I have already read I think you are, I'm in good hands. I'm just letting you know I don't know what I'm doing. I have to do some rigid mounting with the light in order for me to feel anywhere close to comfortable to leave my tent all day tomorrow. I can only get it to 24" above canopy right now. Tomorrow I can go up another 16" but that's elbows to assholes with my exhaust fan. But as far as me being game, I am in all the way. Oh and my pots are super close to being dried up. I was going to water tonight but I was pretty sure I felt some water weight so I held off.. I appreciate all this man, and tomorrow I'll study what I can before I get home and I'll get that light up all the way when I get home and then address the other stuff. Peace

 

[Papageno]

Yeah like I said I have the same tent. Here is what I have for venting and I can put it all the way to the top.

There is a lot to learn. I can't teach a person about horticulture and everything there is to learn one post at a time. If you really want to be a good grower then it is up to you and you alone...I am gonna be tossing homework over the wall at you...you can decide how many grows you are gonna take before you feel comfortable. The more you put into not just reading and watching videos but understanding what they actually mean the sooner you will be able to do this on your own.

 

[swwilson20]

I just got home a little bit ago and got my light to just under 40" from the tallest plant. They are starting to look thrirsty to me and the pots definetly dropped some weight since I left them this morning. Kind of at a stand still, my first guess would to be pour a couple of cups on the top soil to hold them off until sunday when I can give them the tea, but Ive been wrong about everything so far so I can asssume the same is true here..

On to the tea. I don't know the availability of these things, so I think on Sat I will start at home depot or similar stores until the grow shop opens. I know they have most of that stuff, not sure about the fulvic acid but that's bc I don't remember seeing it. I tend to browse the grow shop for a while and most of the time don't buy shit. I have a mycorrizae, actually 2 kinds. One is powder and the other is the liquid version. Its Great White and Orca, is this the hygrozyme or beneficial bacteria you mentioned?

And you mentioned to pinch off the top. I have not done that yet and I am a little nervous about doing it bc I don't wanna do the wrong thing. I am assuming you mean to not literally pinch off the top right? Just basically smashing the stalk right below the fan leaves or do the pinch at the 1st node?

 

[Papageno]

So great white and Orca are off the shelf stuff that is a lot of what the tea makes. I will explain later. You can just use that stuff instead but I never used it...I make my own and the tea I make has a lot more stuff. Those are some of the things my tea has in it.

And yes I mean use trimming sheers or your fingers and cut of the very top of the plant. That will stop the growth at the primary stalk and all the energy will go into the lower branches and they will start growing faster.

 

[swwilson20]

Okay I will use your recipe anyways. I thought the great white was ONE of the ingredients in the tea you make, or similar. But I guess it's closer to being a scaled down version of a tea, and the microbes and bacteria that are in the bottle I have are in the worm guts and the grass that you use in your tea. I apologize I am so far behind. I'd like to fully grasp this and what Im doing.

And I havent watered my plants at all yet. It's much harder to judge now in 3 gal pots by how heavy they are, but I know for sure the top half of soil is dry, but the top of my plants don't look all that bad. In fact this morning the top leaves are lifting and looking good. Is it a bad habit to judge your plant's "stance" to see if it needs water? The lifting method just changed a lot for me due to the bigger pots. As easy as throwing water on some plants is, I have managed to fuck that up pretty severely..

 

[Papageno]

Well looking at them I think is the best method. It does not hurt them or slow their growth to get a little dry, in fact the opposite. Letting a plant get a little dry stimulates root growth. This in turn stimulates bigger faster vegetation growth. Especially if you have it in reasonable humidity it really doesn't hurt at all to wait for the leaves to show a little stress from being dry. The counter to that by watering too much also has the opposite effect. If you water too much then the roots do not need to grow very much and the above ground plant can easily get over-sized for the root mass and that can cause a whole host of issues. It is very important to wait until the entire pot is dried out. With a good soil blend that is at least 1/4 perlite (I use 1/3) the humidity in the post will stay even and you will have very precise and clear control of this. it wont dry out fast and it wont dry out uneven and you wont get supper wet zones. Your looks to have lots of perlite so you definitely are on the right track and just need to slow way down. I have been growing for decades and it still amazes me how when I set it up correctly I don't have to go into the tent for 5 or more days in a row. I can water once a week and go in at the same tie and tuck my scrog and then ignore it for the rest of the week. Often times I wish there was more to do because I want to be in there but they really just need to be left alone.

As far as the ingredients and orca go. You want to get serious about learning all this stuff if you want to be any good at all.

So rule #1 read the label and understand it. Look up stuff online that you don't understand. In the post I left you where my Tea recipe is before that is a long couple of posts explaining all the stuff in Orca. put the bottle on your desk with the side facing you showing all the types of bacteria and fungi in there and read through the thread and you will understand what it is for and when to use it. I recommend to never buy something if you don't understand what it is for. And I don't mean what they advertise it for or what the salesman says its for. Look at the active ingredients and the raw ingredients and if you don't understand them do some research on non-cannabis sites about what it is for. If it works then real farmers and horticulturalists will be using it because cannabis is just like any other plant. And they will explain proper usage much better than a handful of pot heads who got lucky on a few grows so they think they know their shit.

If you do any research on Microbial teas online you will find that my tea is almost the standard way of doing things but I add a few little extras...that if you keep looking long enough you will find others are doing as well. Look up Alfalfa Tea and I bet you find someone breaking it down with Worm shit very quickly. Some people just steep it like a tea bag overnight but what I do gets a lot of good things in there all at once.

Anyway keep up with the patients...most important tool you have.

 

[swwilson20]

Man keep that stuff coming. That's good. That's a good post. You touched on the soil that I use, and I have thought that with my second grow I'll do this and I'll do that and what not.. And one of the things was my soil. I will be using a different soil. The plant that's in the pic, after I flushed it maybe 24hrs, the whole pot was compacted as fuck. The top of the soil almost had a clay consistency. And I have seen it before. I stated with 5 plants and 2 got wasted basically. One of those, the soil was just like that every time I watered I do believe. That seed never did shit and I tossed it after 2 weeks. After I saw that the first time, I found someone talking about how to prepare a pot with soil. You roll the soil around and break it up, which I did. I made sure it wasn't clumpy. I did not however pre-moisten my soil. I packed the soil in but I didn't cram it down hard, I smack myself again for not mentioning this, but it's because it got better after it dried up and it broke apart and looks fine now. Roots Organics makes a blend that has exactly the same shit, but with 25% more perlite. I know I could just add more perlite, but I guess I didn't really give a shit about my plants b/c of the state they were in and all the mistakes I KNOW I made. Like I told you, I was sooooooooo close to tossing them and I was browsing the innerwebs for some nice indicas getting excited about my second grow. Alright, can you please enlighten me as to what's going on there with my soil. My guess would be that it needs more perlite, but I've been wrong too many times to take my ideas and implement them as truth.

 

[swwilson20]

Oh and I'm topping as soon as I'm done writing. I got sidetracked on the soil.. And that stuff's imprtant!

 

[Papageno]

Really the soil is the most important thing followed buy the light. You can't do anything in a shitty soil. And without a good light you are just a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.

Next grow I will help you with a good beginner soil blend that will get you started down the right path. After you experience that I will teach you the professional way. But you gotta crawl before you can walk. There is so much to learn.


I was in the hydro store a few weeks back and was talking to the manager. He had 3 different hydro setups in tents in the front window showing different ways of growing. We were talking about all kinds of stuff. Once you say the right things and they trust you are someone who knows stuff they will start venting on you. He tells me he wants to move all the really nice hydro equipment to the back and starts asking me about what should be in the front window. He wants a real simple one there. The reason is people come in there asking for what is the best way to grow. "I want the best system so I can get my return fast and make great weed". Well sorry bro you can't buy your way to success. He starts telling me how all the time no matter what he says people come in and buy the most expensive stuff and have no idea what they are doing and crash the grow and 3 months later want to return top of the line used equipment. So he wants to move all the cool stuff to the back of the shop and set up one easy to grow beginners station up front to entice people who are new to start out small. If they start small and are successful they will eventually buy the big expensive stuff and be long term customers.


Sorry...did you have a question?

 

[swwilson20]

I thought the roots oraganics was a good soil, and thought Aurora is a good brand, and still do. Gotta use the tool the correct way which I'm not, but it's a bit late for that and I'm trying to correct the issue. But if you're saying it's a pointless battle, then I gotta get going on some seeds. I believe you and you've already awakened me, and I appreciate. But this soil has all the stuff my plants are supposed to need until bloom. I obviously don't know how much or the ratios. What is a good beginner soil. And I have a Mars Reflector 40 or something coming. I think I should be okay on the lights, just gotta make sure to bring em' up a bit higher, or just put and leave them at the top.

 

[swwilson20]

And I havent even mentioned my best one, so maybe say lets toss the other 2? I have thought about keeping just her, but skipped out on that idea and was gonna start fresh. Then I asked you what was up. Check her out and see what you think Bottom left

 

[Papageno]

what? No I don't think your soil is unusable. I am in a lot of journals these days so I get confused but I think I never said YOUR soil was broken...just that there are some things that may be improved next time.

Your plants are just fine. Did you read the journal I asked you to go through where the guy has some zombies limping along that we are fixing...waaaaaay worse than yours.


You got this man...these will be fine. Just slow down and have some patients.

If your soil is dense it just makes things more difficult but not impossible. You got this!

 

[swwilson20]

Ok Ok I get what you're saying, lol my bad. I'm running right now still.