AK47 Serious Seeds - First Grow - CFL - Soil

[GreeenFingers]

Re: AK47 Serious Seeds, First Grow, CFL, Soil

loving the up dates man and ur plants are looking nicely noded keep up the great work ! i would wait till u find out which one is female before taking clones instead of taking them from all it going to be a pain in the ass and u might mix up which one is if female when it comes to having a male in the mix ttly how this helps with ur decision pce sincerely geturgrowon

Thanks geturgrowon good to see you checking in

I'm not sure what you mean by ' Wait until I find out which ones are female ' ? The idea is to take cuttings and then sex them so that when the cuttings reveal their sex, all males can be pulled from the large box. This is due to limited space, there is one large and one small box. the small box is only big enough for cuttings so they will be able to be switched to 12 / 12 in there

The large box only fits:

10 X ( 3.5 litre ) Pots

6 X ( 7.5 litre ) Pots

Or 3 X ( 11 litre ) Pots Depending on how the situation goes ha ha

As you can see, unfortunately there would be no room to flower all 9 plants and then remove males because i would like all the females transplanted into either their 7.5 or 11 litre pots by the time of the switch to 12 / 12

 

[GreeenFingers]

Re: AK47 Serious Seeds, First Grow, CFL, Soil

Love everything about your set-up. That fan and filter are gonna work great. You asked about minimizing vibrations from where the fan is mounted to the wall. Two ideas for you... Small rubber O- rings and washers placed between fan and wall, or a thin rubber mat like a welcome mat, cut screw holes into it and place entire mat between wall and fan. Both ideas of course involve re-mounting fan but will take care of the vibrations. With the size of your fan the rubber mat would most likely work much better.
Hope this helps and keep up the great work.

Do you have a plan of when you will switch to flower?

Thanks NLnovice

I like the idea of the rubber, something like that seems like it could do a pretty good job at stopping at least some of it ha ha i must have a look for something the next time I'm in the hardware store

Well you can see my situation with the Pot and Box sizes in the comment above ha ha so I'm going to wait until these clones root and then they will be flipped over to 12 / 12 so I'm guessing about a few days for the cuttings to root, a week or a little more to sex them, so hopefully we could be looking at switching to flower in about 2 weeks, give or take

 

[GreeenFingers]

Re: AK47 Serious Seeds, First Grow, CFL, Soil

Looking good, subbed.

Thanks JBC420

Feel free to join in

 

[GreeenFingers]

Re: AK47 Serious Seeds, First Grow, CFL, Soil

Beautiful looking plants with a great set-up. I'll come along for the ride.

JASPL

Strap yourself in

 

[GreeenFingers]

sweet plants and setup bro, mind if i stick around? (soaking up info the noob)

No problem Filo420

Feel free to ask any questions

 

[GreeenFingers]

Update

All Plants were tied down and had clones taken of the most suitable branches of each, the side that had the branch taken off was the side that would face the soil so that most of the branching would be facing the light.

Most, 'Soon to be all' Fan leaves were aslo removed, the reason for this is that each of the tops will then continue to grow sort of like like it is its own individual plant or each top is like a baby plant again

Some pictures for you all

Below: This is the Sativa looking phenotype No. 9 ( I hope this one is a girl ha ha ) It has been LST'd and each of its new tops have been FIMMED as have all of the rest.

Below: All 3 Lights on, A clear view of all the plants LST

Below: Close-up of the front row

Below: All 9 Clones

 

[GreeenFingers]

Update

There were still some heat issues which is a bit ridiculous because of the 280 CFM Inline Fan.

The problem wasn't the fan, the direct heat was still being trapped beneath the board I was thinking for so long trying to figure out how to solve the problem and then I remembered that I had These Spare

The 3rd Light light was what caused the major heat problems, this was the only light that didn't have a fan extracting heat directly from it.

The job took like 2 hours because the Light Board can't be removed from the box without major major hassle.

The box has a top door and a bottom door with the Light board suspended in the middle, so its either lean in from the top or reach up from the bottom, I had do do both using a Jig Saw to cut 3 X 12cm ( 5 in ) holes.

Which let me tell you is quite scary and dangerous when your lying on your back, in a small box holding an electric saw above your head trying to cut holes through a wooden board that is on wires that allow it to move Up Down and everywhere else ha ha The Job got done though and this was created ha ha

Here is how it looks from underneath, the fans were actually moving pretty fast for this photo but the camera picked them up as still ha ha

Below: FIMMED and LST'd

Please feel free to join in and comment

GreeenFingers

 

[Filo420]

hi greeenfingers! just a quick question about your clones..
why are the big leaves trimmed? and what purpose does
it do? (sorry about my english its my 2nd language)

 

[GreeenFingers]

hi greeenfingers! just a quick question about your clones..
why are the big leaves trimmed? and what purpose does
it do? (sorry about my english its my 2nd language)

Yeah thats no problem Filo420

Well the idea is that the clones / cuttings have no roots, thus they have no way of absorbing water.

So we cut the larger leaves in half just to lower the plants respiration and to make it know to use its energy for root development and not wasting it trying to photosynthesise.

I hope this helps answer your question

 

[Filo420]

thank you sir, and that well and truly answered
my question.

 

[GreeenFingers]

Update

Everything is still going well The plants are just in the process of being trained into having as many Tops as they can possibly have by the time the clones are sexed.

Nutrients have now gone up to 3ml/Litre the recommended dose is 5ml/Litre so its now at 60% Max nutrients at the moment.

I will post pictures of the plants when they get a little more interesting

But for now

Below: Here are 4 leaves from 4 different plants, its very clear to see the phenotype differences within the same strain, Very Interesting Stuff

I had nothing to smoke so I cleaned out my grinder with 99.9% Isopropyl Alcohol, The mixture was then heated to evaporate the alcohol and to create hash oil.

Here are the results.

 

[GreeenFingers]

Update

This is the 4th / 5th week of the Veg Cycle.

All plants received an Examination / Inspection and a Trimming today, There are many many tops, up to 15 and more on some and at the lowest there are about 7 tops per plant.

Fish-Mix Nutrients were increased to 4ml/L ( The recommended dose is 5ml/L ) So we are at 80% Max Nutrients.

Temperature is fluctuating between 26c -28c ( 79f - 83f ) during lights on, the plants do not seem to mind.

When the first plant was removed from the box to be Inspected, I noticed that there were White Pistils shooting out of the Calyxes.

Pre-Flowers already I took every plant out and thoroughly searched for signs of male or female Pre-Flowers. All were showing signs of their sex.

The results for the 9 Plants ( un-feminised, Serious Seeds, AK47 ) are as follows :

1. - Female
2. - Female
3. - Hermaphrodite
4. - Female
5. - Female
6. - Female
7. - Female
8. - Female
9. - Female

I thought it was very strange for almost an entire pack of un-femanised seeds to be all Female and not even one single male but I'm not complaining

The Hermie ( no. 3 ) started out like a normal Diploid seedling ( 2 chromosomes ) but then became a Triploid which indicates ( 3 chromosomes )

I didn't know that a plant was able to change from having 'double' sets of leaves to having 'triple' sets of leaves ? (see picture )

Wouldn't the fact that the plant grew for many inter-nodes having 2 sets of leaves at each one mean that the plant has 2 chromosomes.

I don't understand how the plant could just suddenly change to having 3 leaf sets without somehow gaining a chromosome.

It seems that this specific plants genetics weren't stable, explaining why it would Herm as a last ditch attempt to survive.

Does anybody have any thoughts, oppinions or experience that they would be willing to discuss based on this information ?

The fact that all of the plants have shown their sex already means that I will not have to go through the time and effort to try and Flower the Clones. The clones can now be kept in the Veg cycle and the genetics can be retained for the future

Here are some pictures

Enjoy

Below: Female Pre-Flowers.

Below: Female Pre-Flower.

Below: No.3 Pollen Sacks.

Below: No.3 The top group of Triploid Leaves.

Below: No.3 Root System.

Below: No.3 Clone root development ( now disposed of )

Below: Left View, Tops of remaining plants.

Below: Right View, Tops of remaining plants.

Please feel free to join in and comment

 

[Drumsbreathe]

Absolutely inspirational!

Did you say that you are switching boxes for flowering? How is the smell now?

 

[GreeenFingers]

Absolutely inspirational!

Did you say that you are switching boxes for flowering? How is the smell now?

Thank you Drumsbreathe

Happy to see you joining in

No the box that the plants are in at the moment is the one that will be used for flowering, except the number of plants that will be flowered will be reduced to 3 or 4.

The smell is un-noticeable since the carbon filter was introduced and the air vented outside, but there is still an extremely strong smell when the door is opened ha ha

Peace

 

[Drumsbreathe]

Well, you have inspired me enough to move forward despite limited funds and absence of know-how!

I have ordered 5x World of Seeds - Afghan Kush - Regular for $3.67 each in the hopes of perhaps, eventually flowering 2. They would be my firsts! I have jumped headlong into this, without any idea what I'm doing and without any idea how I am going to finance it, but I'm hoping for the best. 2 semesters ago, I started attending university for the first time in my life, at 27 years of age (a little late by some standards!) with no savings and no idea how I'd stack up, but it has worked out marvelously. I carried the same mentality through a switch from smoking cigarettes (a 10 year old habit) to vaping and have not had a cigarette in 3 weeks! I'm hoping it will work out for me in this domain as well. I figured, now that I've bought them, if I can get the seeds to germinate, I'll find the money to get some light on them!

That leads me to my next question. I have been browsing many posts and sites regarding lighting. From what I can gather it takes about 6 actual CFL watts to match 4 HID watts, assuming correct spectrums and spacings are used. So roughly 600 actual CFL watts to match a 400w HPS.

And now...finally...the questions! How much wattage, and of what kind, would you recommend for my planned grow of 0(god, I hope not!) to 5(I don't know where I will put them!) plants? They will likely be in a in part of a large closet and have a space roughly 4 feet tall, 2 ft wide and 2 or 3 feet deep.

What kind of heat can I expect from the wattage required?

And what do you think of these or these?

He's got them in 6500 and 2700k. Free shipping is helpful to these northern parts. I figure I could probably find some adapters nearby or online and rig up some sort of fixture box.

Basically, I'm open to any and all suggestions you or anyone else has time for as. These are just those that I am thinking of at the moment.

Thanks for your time!

 

[GreeenFingers]

Well, you have inspired me enough to move forward despite limited funds and absence of know-how!

I have ordered 5x World of Seeds - Afghan Kush - Regular for $3.67 each in the hopes of perhaps, eventually flowering 2. They would be my firsts! I have jumped headlong into this, without any idea what I'm doing and without any idea how I am going to finance it, but I'm hoping for the best. 2 semesters ago, I started attending university for the first time in my life, at 27 years of age (a little late by some standards!) with no savings and no idea how I'd stack up, but it has worked out marvelously. I carried the same mentality through a switch from smoking cigarettes (a 10 year old habit) to vaping and have not had a cigarette in 3 weeks! I'm hoping it will work out for me in this domain as well. I figured, now that I've bought them, if I can get the seeds to germinate, I'll find the money to get some light on them!

That leads me to my next question. I have been browsing many posts and sites regarding lighting. From what I can gather it takes about 6 actual CFL watts to match 4 HID watts, assuming correct spectrums and spacings are used. So roughly 600 actual CFL watts to match a 400w HPS.

And now...finally...the questions! How much wattage, and of what kind, would you recommend for my planned grow of 0(god, I hope not!) to 5(I don't know where I will put them!) plants? They will likely be in a in part of a large closet and have a space roughly 4 feet tall, 2 ft wide and 2 or 3 feet deep.

What kind of heat can I expect from the wattage required?

And what do you think of these or these?

He's got them in 6500 and 2700k. Free shipping is helpful to these northern parts. I figure I could probably find some adapters nearby or online and rig up some sort of fixture box.

Basically, I'm open to any and all suggestions you or anyone else has time for as. These are just those that I am thinking of at the moment.

Thanks for your time!

Hi Drumsbreathe I'm happy to see that you are inspired by my work

If I was you I wouldn't germinate the seeds as soon as you get them, you should really think about setting up your environment first, It really is the most important thing and if you don't have that you could easily stress your seedlings because you will not have a regular light cycle. Without actual lighting, I assume you would just keep the plants on a windowsill or something for light until you get them, if this is the case they will get really stretchy and will not be able to support many buds by the time you get a light on them.

It may take about '' 6 actual CFL watts to match 4 HID watts '' but you have to understand that,

A HID light such as a 250w HPS has about 2-3 Foot of strong light penetration meaning that the light gets to the lowest parts of the plant. The strong light penetration also gives very heavy dense buds to the plants.

CFLs on the other hand only have about 1 foot of light penetration, the buds also aren't as dense or heavy but with a mixed spectrum of CFLs the quality of the THC produced can be increased.

But to put it simple, in no way does 600w of CFLs match a 400w HPS ha ha

Lets assume your proposed grow area is 2 X 2 X 4, this space would be perfect in volume for about 4 plants, 5 would be too much.

I would like to suggest a wattage for you but it is difficult because I have no idea on your means of ventilation, These are the things that need to be worked out before you actually germinate your seeds. Did you have any ventilation in mind ?

A rough estimate could be about 300w - 400w of CFLs

or

One 250w Hps

People have the Idea of getting CFLs because they think that it is a much cooler alternative to HPS lights. On a 1/1 basis CFLs are much cooler but when you start to pack a load of them into one space things can get pretty insanely hot. As an example, there are 375w of CFLs in my box at the moment, without my inline fan temperatures got as high as 36c (97f) as a comparison normal temps should be about 27c (80f)

In my opinion, I think that a 250w HPS could be, More cost effective with less of a heat output. It would also be cheaper to buy initially for the flowering period.

I would recommend the 6500k 125w CFLs for the Veg period though as they have given me extremely tight inter-nodes, even better than I have seen with MH lighting.

If you have any more questions do not hesitate to ask

Peace

 

[Drumsbreathe]

Thank you Green Fingers! This information is greatly appreciated!!

I had indeed read about penetration depth as well as color spectrum efficency, however, the pros and cons you have mentioned here are clear and straightforward.

Although I may have given the impression of being passive with my space and grow for that matter, that is not the case! That said, I DEFINITELY realize that I am unprepared and uninformed! I intend to have a timeline for putting lights and ventilation in place before wetting the seeds, in order to ensure that I am not unequipped as the plant (hopefully) progresses. I do however, need a TON of help making these plans! I figure my next step will be researching seed storage as they may remain dry for a while yet!

Thank you again for your help and any further advice you can provide. I am brand new to this as well as using forums, so I am sorry if I am ignorant in either. Please feel free to school me!! Perhaps I should start a "help me plan my grow" thread?

The intended space will be in in part of a large closet. The whole closet is the length of one wall of the living room in our apartment and has one full size door in the middle of it. The whole thing is 11 ft wide by 10feet tall and 22 inches deep. I would probably make use of a section 22 inches by 30 inches and about 6 feet high. I would possibly like to futher divide this space into veg and flowering sections. I would likely practise lst or scog to keep things low and fill the space. I do not need to germ all 5 at the same time, I'm open to suggestions! Cost is a very major limiting factor for the first grow, and I understand that there are all lot of factors and choices.

Ventilation will be an issue. I will likely build a box within the closet. I have access to some scrap wood that would be sufficient to build a cabinet with. I also have carboard boxes if these may be of any use. The apartment is kept cool with one AC unit during the summer, and we didn't turn the heat on once last winter as my girlfriend likes things chilly! So, I'm starting off with realtively cool and dry conditions year round, although generally very slightly stuffier and warmer in the closet.

I can likely acquire computer fans for quite cheap and intend to use these to exhaust the box, and inlet fresh air if needed. Hopefully filtering will not be needed for odors. I also intend to have a small desk fan inside.

It would be ideal if I could acquire one light setup that could get me through veg and flowering. Although, considering I eventually hope to have a two stage operation, I should try and plan ahead as well. I have seen 400w kits with hps and mh bulbs, reflector and pullies for 160$ shipped. I'm thinking it would cost about that much to acquire sufficient CFL wattage, adapters included, regardless of which bulb size I opt for.

I understand that either way, heat will be a consideration. Do you think a 400 watt hid would be significantly hotter than 400w of CFL's? Would the buds produced (all things considered) using MH for veg and HPS for flower, be better than CFL's alone?

I am also trying to research different option for soil vs. hyrdo grows, but I am leaning towards soil at the moment.

Again, all help is greatly appreciated!!

 

[GreeenFingers]

I'm happy to help

As for seed storage the best thing to do is just keep them in the fridge, this imitates winter and the seeds will remain dormant.

It really depends on how much you want to grow. Without any filtration your entire house will stink, even with as little as 1 or 2 plants. Although I don't know if smell will be a problem for you.

400w of CFLs will give off about the same heat as the HPS.

400 watts is 400 watts whatever way you look at it. CFLs generally seem cool because the heat is dissipated over a wider area where as a HPS has the heat concentrated into one direct spot. This is what makes it seem cooler but it is not necessarily the case.

A CFL produces less lumens per watt than HPS. This means that the HPS is more efficient at converting watts into light.

The watts that aren't converted into light are dissipated as heat

Therefore, theoretically at 400 watts the CFLs at that volume should actually produce more heat than the HPS because CFLs are less effective at converting watts into light.

A 250w HPS might match 400w of CFL.

I would recommend blue spectrum CFL for Veg and HPS for flower with the blue CFL mixed in, the quality will be better.

If you only intend on using computer fans to ventilate a closet grow it will be impossible without adequate air exchange.

Peace

 

[GreeenFingers]

Update:

The number plants in the box has now been reduced to 5, not an easy decision ha ha.

4 of them will be chosen and switched to flowering in about a week, hopefully

Nutrients have been increased to 5 ml/Litre as of today, this is the recommended maximum and they all seem to love it.

I have discontinued all Low Stress Training on every plant for now, as I think there are a high enough number of tops on each plant that I am happy with.

The plants will be grown out for about another week to try and get some more development, height and new growth into the tops.

When I am happy with the new growth 4 plants will be selected and planted into their 11 litre ( 2 gallon ) pots, an extra day or 2 will be allowed for them to recover from the shock.

When this stage is complete, every top on each plant will be tied down to the circumference of the pot.

This will open up the canopy and allow light to get to every single top individually. This will also reduce the current height of the plants to about half of what they are now, creating much more head room in the box

Here are some pictures below to see the development of the tops the plants. These 2 were chosen because they are very different phenotypes, there is even a dramatic difference in the colour.

Below: The Sativa phenotype, long thin leaves, brighter green colour. This plant has also had the most vigorous growth of all and is currently my favourite. She has many many tops.

Below: The more Indica phenotype. The leaves are fatter than her friend above and the colour is a much darker green. Most of the branching and stems on this plant are purple unlike the others. Once again, many many tops.

Please feel free to join in and comment people

GreeenFingers

Peace

 

[legalinaz]

Good stuff man. Following along....