Are my plants ready to start flushing?
- Thread starter Budgrower14
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mrking
Well-Known Member
You’ve opened up a canna worms. Lol. Many people now are sure flushing does nothing but starve plant, just keep feeding it to the end.
Nunyabiz
Well-Known Member
they are outside in the ground?
What exactly are you going to "flush"?
I would feed up to harvest
What exactly are you going to "flush"?
I would feed up to harvest
Flushing works to wash fine sediments & built up nutes from a container plant or to reset a soil problem, but according to test results flushing does nothing to improve the taste or wash nutrients out of your buds. Check out this link... InTheShed No Flush It is important to feed as they try to finish up.
Open up every bottle of nutes and amendments and take a huge sniff, fish fertilizer and bat guano etc. Your roots ate, drank and slept in that smelly stuff for 8 weeks, the plants took up what they wanted from the feed sources you gave them, how is washing the roots going to change that? It can’t
flush if it makes you feel better but most here suggest that you feed to the end
Open up every bottle of nutes and amendments and take a huge sniff, fish fertilizer and bat guano etc. Your roots ate, drank and slept in that smelly stuff for 8 weeks, the plants took up what they wanted from the feed sources you gave them, how is washing the roots going to change that? It can’t
flush if it makes you feel better but most here suggest that you feed to the end
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
flushing is the act of moving 3x the container size in fresh water, through the soil so as to wash (flush) out any built up salts and leftover nutes. In a synthetic grow, it is a good idea to do this flush going into the last two weeks of the grow, so as to clear the roots for maximum uptake of water and nutes during the last two week, during the time the buds grow the fastest and put on the most weight.
Flushing is NOT giving the plant only water for an extended period of time. That act, that we now know is totally unnecessary and does nothing for the taste of the product at the end, is called forced starvation, not flushing. This forced starvation used to be considered the best way to grow pot... in the 1960's, and even now that we know better, this remnant of bro-science still persists on the internet where everyone who has ever read a grow bible, thinks they are an expert.
Be careful who you follow and which advice you follow on the internet... 90% of what you hear is either BS or someone trying to sell something that you probably don't need.
Flushing is NOT giving the plant only water for an extended period of time. That act, that we now know is totally unnecessary and does nothing for the taste of the product at the end, is called forced starvation, not flushing. This forced starvation used to be considered the best way to grow pot... in the 1960's, and even now that we know better, this remnant of bro-science still persists on the internet where everyone who has ever read a grow bible, thinks they are an expert.
Be careful who you follow and which advice you follow on the internet... 90% of what you hear is either BS or someone trying to sell something that you probably don't need.
Flushing wont remove excess salts/nutes/fertilizer.
Because = cation exchange capacity
Just water and everything you have been doing up to this point and forget about "flushing" its for people that use soil-less medium aka Hydroponics.
Hydroponics is where the idea came from and not sure how it got into the soil growing world of cannabis but it's not a thing. Not in soil.
Because = cation exchange capacity
Just water and everything you have been doing up to this point and forget about "flushing" its for people that use soil-less medium aka Hydroponics.
Hydroponics is where the idea came from and not sure how it got into the soil growing world of cannabis but it's not a thing. Not in soil.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
This is just not true, Bob. I fail to see why you think it necessary to throw out such misinformation, because I know that you know better. CEC, although sounding very impressive to a newbie, has nothing to do with this examination of flushing or whether it is a valid technique to use in a soil grow.
Flushing can and DOES remove excess salts and nutes from the soil, but not the plant itself. You can't flush a plant, but you CAN and sometimes MUST flush your soil. Flushing IS a thing in soil, just ask the good folks at Fox Farm Labs who strongly recommend a 3x flush of your soil every 2 weeks of the grow when using their nutrient line.
Yes, flushing is done regularly in Hydroponics too, and Fox Farms gives the same recommendations there. All grows using strong EDTA (salt chelated) nutrients to keep them going will by definition have large amounts of salts build up in the soil, a byproduct of those nutes. Those salts can quickly build up and restrict the roots' ability to uptake water, and they limit the soil's ability to hold nutrients (the CEC) in the soil for the plants to use later on. The salts can build up to the point where all nutrient exchange is limited, and a very common salt lockout can occur, in which a proper 3x flush of the soil is the ONLY thing that can save the grow.
@Emilya we've had this discussion several times.
I err on the side of science. You know this so why keep bringing up anything positive with flushing soil. It's not science. As a fact it goes against the science.
Science - Cation Exchange this is how soil works you can't miraculously defy physics and chemistry.
Water has neither a positive or negative electrical charge.
Cations in the soil are the nutrients either chemical or organic. Cations have an electrical charge. This charge will allow the cations (nutrients) to attach to soil organic matter and clay particles.
This is a chemical bond. You cant wash that chemical bond away with water (no charge). The roots can attract those nutrients/fertilizer with whats called root exudate. This exudate does have a chemical charge and the plant can change it to attract different minerals and nutrients depending on plant need.
Water does play a roll. Its taken up with the nutrients and minerals and the plant uses the water as a vehicle to transport (translocation) those cations/nutrients/minerals.
So what we get with adding a lot of water down the stretch is give the plant more ability to take up nutrients that the plant needs for growth and reproduction. Thats it.
If you have soil with adequate amounts of soil organic matter you will get very little run off on nutrients and most all of them will be in the form of Nitrates and that will only be the case if there are much too much Nitrate added to the soil.
The solution to this problem with extra nitrates in the soil is easily remedied. Stop using nitrate fertilizer in flower. Cannabis doesn't need nitrogen to flower in fact excess nitrogen will cause the plant to grow too much plant material instead of flowers. We already know this so most all fertilizer geared toward cannabis is lighter in Nitrate and why you see bloom fertilizer and VEG fertilizer.
Calcium is king.... for cannabis.
The science = a must read for anyone that didn't pay attention in chemistry class (like me). Too busy with the triple beam then under the chemical hood seeing if we could puff lol. True story.
The science:
Cations and Cation Exchange Capacity | Fact Sheets | soilquality.org.au
I err on the side of science. You know this so why keep bringing up anything positive with flushing soil. It's not science. As a fact it goes against the science.
Science - Cation Exchange this is how soil works you can't miraculously defy physics and chemistry.
Water has neither a positive or negative electrical charge.
Cations in the soil are the nutrients either chemical or organic. Cations have an electrical charge. This charge will allow the cations (nutrients) to attach to soil organic matter and clay particles.
This is a chemical bond. You cant wash that chemical bond away with water (no charge). The roots can attract those nutrients/fertilizer with whats called root exudate. This exudate does have a chemical charge and the plant can change it to attract different minerals and nutrients depending on plant need.
Water does play a roll. Its taken up with the nutrients and minerals and the plant uses the water as a vehicle to transport (translocation) those cations/nutrients/minerals.
So what we get with adding a lot of water down the stretch is give the plant more ability to take up nutrients that the plant needs for growth and reproduction. Thats it.
If you have soil with adequate amounts of soil organic matter you will get very little run off on nutrients and most all of them will be in the form of Nitrates and that will only be the case if there are much too much Nitrate added to the soil.
The solution to this problem with extra nitrates in the soil is easily remedied. Stop using nitrate fertilizer in flower. Cannabis doesn't need nitrogen to flower in fact excess nitrogen will cause the plant to grow too much plant material instead of flowers. We already know this so most all fertilizer geared toward cannabis is lighter in Nitrate and why you see bloom fertilizer and VEG fertilizer.
Calcium is king.... for cannabis.
The science = a must read for anyone that didn't pay attention in chemistry class (like me). Too busy with the triple beam then under the chemical hood seeing if we could puff lol. True story.
The science:
Cations and Cation Exchange Capacity | Fact Sheets | soilquality.org.au
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
You are missing one very important scientific fact. It may have been covered on that day you fell asleep in Chemistry class. Salt dissolves in water, and the water washes it right out of there, as slick as can be. Talk about Science! Flushing works. Since salt takes up a larger and larger portion of the cation storage ability in soil as it steadily builds up, being able to simply dissolve it and eliminating it so easily with a little bit of water has made flushing a big part of synthetic gardening. If you dispute the science, talk to the good folks at Fox Farms and see what they have to say and why they recommend a flush just about every two weeks, and while you are at it, ask them why Sledgehammer works so well to help with the flush, and they will tell you that it helps the salt dissolve, even faster.
SoGnotSOG321
Well-Known Member
If you hadn't been already, its probably going to introduce an element of chaos into what looks like grower-condria.. possibly you're looking for something to go wrong when it's a blip or nothing at all?
i like no talk of salt and soil ... try living round here in alkali flats .. flush all you want the last flood did dick ... 
I used General Hydroponics' three-part Flora series for years. For a while, I followed the usual "push them over the edge, then back off one notch" strategy. Salt buildup. The best way to remove it turned out to be... throw the shit away and buy new
. I didn't sleep through Chemistry, but at some point I forgot that not all salts, in all forms, are easily soluble in all water. The stuff one pours into their reservoir is not the same stuff that is left over after the plants have lived in and fed from it for several days or longer.I backed the nutrient strength way down, doubled my aeration... and ended up with healthier plants, better yield, and less replacement costs.
Some stuff becomes so insoluble when combined that it's best kept in two separate containers before dilution into many, many times greater volume of water. Plants use a lot of water - and a little of what we collectively refer to as nutrients.
Many agricultural extension (etc.) websites recommend pouring double (occasionally, three times) the container's volume of water through that container once per year. But most of the ones that do make a point to instruct the reader to scoop the salty buildup off the surface of the soil and scrape the crap off the container before doing so. Why? <SHRUGS> IDK, maybe someone figured that if pouring water into the container for a year wasn't enough to dissolve and remove the buildup, that a quick rinse won't, either. It will remove some salts that are still in a soluble form. And a lot of the waste products that the plant slowly but steadily produces. And these are instructions for people who are growing general plants instead of cannabis, so the gardeners aren't in a race to see how quickly they can run through quantities of nutrients.
Feed the plants what they need. Don't act like you're trying to make some kind of vegetarian version of fois gras. Or as a parent might put it, if you don't spend all that time making a mess, you won't have to spend all day cleaning it up. Dr. Chin might say, "Sure, buddy, you go right ahead and eat that crap for 40 years. We've got this stuff now that will flush all that plaque buildup right out of your arteries." Oh, really? "Ha ha ha, no, I'm lying to you, stop trying to kill yourself!"
table salt = Sodium chloride
Sodium Nitrate = contains the nitrate anion (NO3−) < - see the minus sign there. This is what is talked about as soluble in water and will percolate down thru the soil with water.
Ammonium Nitrate = Ammonium nitrate is a salt, which consists of two ions: a cation, the ammonium ion (NH4+) and an anion, the nitrate ion (NO3-). The cation and anion are held together by a strong ionic bond. Since there's a cation in this strong bond ammonium nitrate binds to clay particles in the soil and will not "leach" or be able to be "flushed" from soil.
Its the nitrate anion in question here.
There are several forms of fertilizers they are salts. Not all of them are mobile in the water in the soil. Even the ones that are will still bind to soil organic matter and clay particles in the soil. You would have to have very poor soil (sandy with little soil organic matter) for your sodium nitrate to leach thru. That and a lot of excess water.
It's just bad practice to over use nitrate fertilizer then try and "fix" over use with water. Stop "flushing" its not what you think it is.
If you have a good living soil, the bacteria in the soil will break down the Nitrate and its excess will be released as Nitrogen Gas into the atmosphere as the bacteria work using it as fuel to break down soil organic matter and give some back to plants.
As mentioned many times, its best to provide what the plant needs so there are no excess in your soil building up as it can be harmful to your health. This is the science.
" Nitrogen is an essential element for plant growth and development; however, due to environmental pollution, high nitrate concentrations accumulate in the edible parts of these leafy vegetables, particularly if excessive nitrogen fertilizer has been applied. Consuming these crops can harm human health; thus, developing a suitable strategy for the agricultural application of nitrogen fertilizer is important."
"flushing" is NOT a suitable strategy. It not only pollutes the environment but its just not healthy living for hoo-man or animals.
To summarize:
"Flushing" bad practice
"flushing" pollutes our environment
Nitrate over use is unhealthy for humans
You need some more? Do ya? Do you need some more? Say you need some more.....
Sodium Nitrate = contains the nitrate anion (NO3−) < - see the minus sign there. This is what is talked about as soluble in water and will percolate down thru the soil with water.
Ammonium Nitrate = Ammonium nitrate is a salt, which consists of two ions: a cation, the ammonium ion (NH4+) and an anion, the nitrate ion (NO3-). The cation and anion are held together by a strong ionic bond. Since there's a cation in this strong bond ammonium nitrate binds to clay particles in the soil and will not "leach" or be able to be "flushed" from soil.
Its the nitrate anion in question here.
There are several forms of fertilizers they are salts. Not all of them are mobile in the water in the soil. Even the ones that are will still bind to soil organic matter and clay particles in the soil. You would have to have very poor soil (sandy with little soil organic matter) for your sodium nitrate to leach thru. That and a lot of excess water.
It's just bad practice to over use nitrate fertilizer then try and "fix" over use with water. Stop "flushing" its not what you think it is.
If you have a good living soil, the bacteria in the soil will break down the Nitrate and its excess will be released as Nitrogen Gas into the atmosphere as the bacteria work using it as fuel to break down soil organic matter and give some back to plants.
As mentioned many times, its best to provide what the plant needs so there are no excess in your soil building up as it can be harmful to your health. This is the science.
" Nitrogen is an essential element for plant growth and development; however, due to environmental pollution, high nitrate concentrations accumulate in the edible parts of these leafy vegetables, particularly if excessive nitrogen fertilizer has been applied. Consuming these crops can harm human health; thus, developing a suitable strategy for the agricultural application of nitrogen fertilizer is important."
"flushing" is NOT a suitable strategy. It not only pollutes the environment but its just not healthy living for hoo-man or animals.
To summarize:
"Flushing" bad practice
"flushing" pollutes our environment
Nitrate over use is unhealthy for humans
You need some more? Do ya? Do you need some more? Say you need some more.....
I was hoping someone wood ask the 4 million dollar question:
How do I know how much Nitrogen is in my soil?
A: Soil Test.
The soil test result will also give you your recommended nitrate application and any other NPK requirements needed for plants to grow healthy.
How do I know how much Nitrogen is in my soil?
A: Soil Test.
The soil test result will also give you your recommended nitrate application and any other NPK requirements needed for plants to grow healthy.
ZeroTolerance
Active Member
@Budgrower14 Hey, sorry if this response is a little late. To answer your original question, yes your plants do look mature enough to flush if you want to.
They seem really good overall, would you be able to quickly say what strains you've got, if you're growing them in ground or in containers, and what fertilizer you're using?
They seem really good overall, would you be able to quickly say what strains you've got, if you're growing them in ground or in containers, and what fertilizer you're using?
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Budgrower14
420 Member
Thank you I really Appreciate it the strains I have are all Tahoe og this is my first grow and I’m just learning I have my plants in 15 gallon pots and the nutrients I’m using are the general hydroponics trio throughout the whole grow I’m also using some floral nova bloom,big bud and snow storm ultra in mid-late flower
Cannabis is a hyperaccumulator used to remove heavy metals from nuclear disaster sites like Chernobyl. That being said you can only flush soils or mediums not the plant or plant tissues. What ever the plant has been exposed to if it does not break down in the environment is still there in the plant. It is called phytoremediation or phytoextraction.
ZeroTolerance
Active Member
Sounds like you got a good setup man. Based on your original photos I bet you'll end up with plenty of good weed.
Mister Greengenes
420 Member
I have done the side by side comparison multiple times. The conclusion, flushing is for toilets only.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Unless you are using synthetic nutrients and get into a situation where you have a salt lockout and your plants are dying... then, flushing is for those who wish to save their plants.
Flushing at the very end, to somehow clear the plants of something, has been debunked. That flushing at the end of the job, is indeed for toilets. Several nutrient lines however, recommend regular flushes to clear out excess nutes and salts... it is a thing, and they wouldn't recommend such a thing, if it were not for a good reason.
