Bagseed Indoor 600W MH/HPs Airpot Sensi Tent

[SauronBlue]

I just realized that I never posted of my latest feed yesterday morning. Both plants were looking pretty good to me, Plant 1 (top 4) took 1.6l of 875ppm/6.75ph. runoff was 2040/5.7 Plant 2 got the same amount of the same feed, but forgot to write the out levels before I lost the #s.







Got some quality lighting, but I'm kinda paralyzed with indecision on how to use it. I have one tent, and a closet I can use. I'm thinking I should flower in the tent with the HLG and veg in the closet on minimal power, to save heat.

 

[Allen42]

I just realized that I never posted of my latest feed yesterday morning. Both plants were looking pretty good to me, Plant 1 (top 4) took 1.6l of 875ppm/6.75ph. runoff was 2040/5.7 Plant 2 got the same amount of the same feed, but forgot to write the out levels before I lost the #s.





Got some quality lighting, but I'm kinda paralyzed with indecision on how to use it. I have one tent, and a closet I can use. I'm thinking I should flower in the tent with the HLG and veg in the closet on minimal power, to save heat.

For some reason, I can’t see the pictures you posted. You should repost the pics of your deficiency.

 

[SauronBlue]

A few hours after watering, plant 2 is showing light lower leaves, with the leaf vein yellowing last, and a few spots of brown. I'm thinking this might be mag deficiency, but not sure. Could feeding at 6.75 be too alkaline? I thought it would help, since 6.5 is ideal, and the ph is always falling- I figured, startit a touch higher, and let it pass thru the whole range. Is this stressing my plants?

 

[SauronBlue]

Sorry about that Z420, I realized I had never posted yesterday's activity, and I'm not used to much activity, so I figured I had time to edit before anyone noticed LOL I switched the stress pics to the next post

 

[Allen42]

No problem buddy, just wanted to let you know so I or others could help you properly. So from my understanding magnesium is a mobile nutrient, so when you see a deficiency it should show up as light green or yellowing by veins and edges of older fan leaves and this could be accompanied by red stems as well. So it should be effecting your lower fan leaves if it’s mag def... It’s hard to tell if that’s exactly what you got going on but it does seem like it could be showing early mag deficiency signs. Now I see your growing in FFOF soil which I have zero experience with. I grow hydro now, and I’ve only grown in soil outdoors, never inside and didn’t use a ppm or ph meter when I did so I can’t really answer those questions for you. Hopefully she doesn’t mind but I’m going to call on @Emilya for you, because she seems to be the champion when it comes to troubleshooting plant problems, she’s incredibly knowledgeable so I’d take her advice to heart.

 

[Allen42]

Here’s a good picture of a magnesium deficiency for you to have a reference point to compare to... also in my signature is great link to a website of just about every problem you could imagine running into. Check it out when you get some time, very useful information in there.

 

[SauronBlue]

I've got lots of images to diagnose stress indicators, that's where I got the idea of Mg from, but it's hard to be certain, because lots of things have similar symptoms. I'd greatly appreciate any advice on how to get over this issue!
I used some of the same water (without nutes) to fill the cloner back up, with just a toch of root66, and some of the clones are browning much worse. Plant 1 got the exact same feed as P2, but has none of the symptoms, and is greener all over.

 

[Emilya Green]

I agree that it looks like magnesium, but I suspect that a large part of the problem is the pH that you are adjusting your fluids to. Any fluid that hits that soil should be adjusted to 6.3 pH. The soil will quickly drift that pH upwards to 6.8 as it dries out, and with this strong drift all the way through the range you may pick up more of the magnesium that is available but not able to be used. If that doesn't do it, get some calmag+ in there... it is good stuff. Good luck!

 

[SauronBlue]

Thanks! Would you recommend waiting 2 more days, to water when dry, or give them the fix asap?

 

[SauronBlue]

I guess my habit of checking runoff is actually a bad thing in soil? It was the downward drift of the runoff ph that made me think to push my feed ph up. I didn't think of the possibility that the soil ph could be completely different from the runoff.

 

[Emilya Green]

Thanks! Would you recommend waiting 2 more days, to water when dry, or give them the fix asap?

I guess my habit of checking runoff is actually a bad thing in soil? It was the downward drift of the runoff ph that made me think to push my feed ph up. I didn't think of the possibility that the soil ph could be completely different from the runoff.

I would wait till the next watering and then I would make sure the pH was correct, without adding anything new or adjusting anything else that you are doing. The entire problem could very well be that the pH has been too high.

Checking runoff in soil is simply meaningless, therefore it is a waste of time... not necessarily a bad thing. Soil pH is set by the ratios of various things it is made up of, and it is not something you should try to adjust on the fly. The runoff pH can be likened to coffee out of a percolator... the more water you run through it, the weaker the coffee. A pH reading taken at 2% runoff is completely different than that from 10% runoff... so where do you arbitrarily determine the correct reading to be?
Soil pH is greatly misunderstood. It is buffered and designed so that you can run your container through a range of pH when you water. Why else do we speak of a range and not just recommend that pH always has to be 6.3? When you water at 6.3 pH, you essentially set the soil (or lets just say the container) pH to 6.3pH. It can be nothing else... the carefully adjusted fluid takes over and the pH of that container is 6.3 since the molecular weight of the water and therefore the influence on the overall pH, is vastly greater than that of anything else in that container.
The magic happens as the plant starts using the water and the water table, essentially a lake under the surface of the soil, begins to drop. As gravity and the plant's usage drop the water level, the top soil begins to dry out. Without the influence of the pH adjusted water, that region of the soil begins to approach its base pH of 6.8pH and the drier it gets, the closer it gets. The nutes locked in the moisture in that region goes through the entire range of usable pH, as it dries out.

Trust your soil and separate methods used in artificial soilless grows from those used in real soil. Testing ppm is usable in coco, not in soil. The way runoff pH balances with the water is very useful in coco and hydro and can tell you a lot about what is going on with the plant, but in soil, those tools are not available to you. It can get terribly confusing trying to apply those rules and methods to a container of soil.

 

[SauronBlue]

Very informative, thanks for taking the time to post that!

 

[SauronBlue]

I've been suffering, trying not to do anything, while watching my poor plant suffer. I couldn't wait anymore, so I got to them a few hours early. I mixed up a batch of nutes to exactly 6.3, then realized that it was a bit light, 815ppm, or about 75 lighter than last time. I decided to just give it to them, rather than up the feed and have to redo the ph. I really want to do some more LST on plant 2, but I don't want to add any stress until it's looking healthier. I only gave 1.1l this time, to hopefully dry out a bit faster.







Plant 1 got the same feed, and the same amount. Plant 1 is much greener, and quite bushy. I gave it a 2nd LST, stretching some stalks out, and bending others over to circle around and out. It's extra dense, because I never cut the bottom clones, like I did for plant 2, and they've grown up to compete with the upper branches. The last pic shows 2 stalks on the same side (so one between them pointing in the other direction), and the lower stem is at the same height. It basically grew super tall, rather than stay weak and small, like lots of lower growth.





I'm looking to give plant 2 another helping of LST, then switch to flower. My problem is that I'm going to be moving before I can finish the flower cycle. Moving my plants, along with all my stuff (which means I'm gonna be pretty tired, and maybe not as careful as possible), a bit of a distance in the bitter cold is not great for them or how I want to treat them, but Vegging them out for another 6 weeks will leave me with huge beasts, that I'm not even sure how I could move, or if I even have the space to grow them out that big. They're already about as big as I can get them in the tent that I have them in, unless I stretch them both out wide and rectangular, instead of square. I feel like the best option is to flower before they get too big, and use big moving boxes, maybe with styrofoam cut to hold the pot in the bottom, to protect them during transit. Once I get to the new place, I should have much more space to dedicate areas for cloning, veg and bloom, it's just getting there that will be an issue.


As usual, thanks to anyone who stops by to take a look, and even better if you have any suggestions. I'm always open to new ideas

 

[SauronBlue]

I'm at my wit's end! More of plant 2's lower leaves have gone yellow and ugly! It's drooping again, so I'm wondering if I'm UNDER-watering? I just don't know. I'm so stressed out right now.I'm having a lot of financial problems, and I've invested everything I had to try to get this income stream off the ground. I got myself registered with my state, and without the income from providing some medicine to others, I'm not gonna make it. If I can't grow plants in veg correctly, how am I ever going to flower good buds? I'm freaking out, and I've got nothing to smoke.








So, things were looking better when I watered in the wee hours of the 18th, and afterwards the leaves had perked up, and I was hoping all would be well (pics are from yesterday). I'm constantly battling with temp and humidity in this tiny 3x3 tent, but it's always been between 65-75°. I've had to open windows to let winter air into that room, to keep thing cold enough, at times. The humidity has been a SERIOUS pain in the ass, and I've just taken the humidifier out of the tent to change the air in the room containing the tent, since that room is now mostly cut off from the rest of the house now. Keeping that area separate has made it easier to keep the temp low, as that room now gets down to 55° or lower, and not relying on the cool-tube to cool the tent, I can lower the fan speed, and reduce the amount of condensation. All in all, I'm busting my ass to keep things straight, but this is driving me crazy, and scaring me to death that this won't work out to a good result.








2 days after watering with the feed at ph 6.3, the yellowing had spread to another node of growth. The whole plant is pretty droopy and sad looking. I want to do more LST to keep her low and spread out, but I haven't wanted to add to the stress. I'm thinking I should water again today, and maybe use some cal/mag. I have some from a long time ago, not sure if it goes bad. I tried using this soil meter, but ph and moisture both looked like they barely moved, if at all. Can't tell if it even works. It does move around on the light setting, and dipping it completely in water causes it to jump to about halfway on the scale.







My clones are finally showing roots, so I should be able to move them to a separate veg area, and I really wanted to start the flower cycle this weekend, but I want my plants to be as healthy as possible going into bloom. I'm glad my clones are rooting, but I don't remember them getting yellow like this. I feel like I'd have some who's stem got all soft, like cooked spaghetti, and had to be thrown away, but they'd still look green up top. Thru all of this, plant 1 is going just fine on the same water, same nutes level, same ph.


I haven't changed things, on the advice of Emilya, but my plan is to put my new quantum board in place of the MH cool-tube, use the current ducting to cool the tent, and move the clones to a new veg area. Unless I get other advice in the next few hours, I'm going to water again with the same feed, one day earlier than planned. I'm starting to think this might be me going too far in the other direction, because I'm scared of over-doing it.

 

[Silverfox125]

I’m late to the party but I made it. Great job so far. I’ll tag along if you don’t mind

 

[SauronBlue]

I apreciate the good vibes, Fox, but all I can see when I look in my tent is the yellow LOL. I've been putting a lot of time, money and effort into this grow. My last attempts were successful at making lots of buds, but they were hardly worth smoking, and I'm scared that I'll have bad quality bud if I don't get everything right.

 

[Silverfox125]

I’m sure you will get great quality flower.

older leaves turning yellow is a sign of nitrogen deficiency.

you have a great mentor in @Emilya. I would weigh her advice heavier than most. I learn something new from every post she has

 

[Hydroholic]

What size pot are you in? Can you feel a difference in your watered and dry plant. If after you water they are good then in a couple of days it’s droopy after the lights been on awhile, it sounds like you need to water more frequently or up pot.

 

[SauronBlue]

I'm thoroughly confused and scared that anything I do is just going to make it worse. This is really making me want to go to hydro, because waiting days to see if my adjustments have helped or hurt is kicking me in the teeth with stress and anticipation. I don't deal with stress well, and I also get very frustrated when things seem out of my control, so having such an important factor in my financial success languishing for no apparent reason is torture.



P2
P1




Here's some better pics showing more of the yellowing, and a couple of the perfectly green P1 for comparison. I also moved the plants a bit further away from each other, so it's easier to tell in the photo where each ends. The bottom node of leaves were the first , and now are yellowing more, after halting the progression after the last feed. Even yesterday they were looking no worse, and the leaves were noticeably more buoyant and happy looking than when the issue started. Last night was the first night that I had that space cut off from the rest of the house, to keep the cold in there, not the rest of the house (I'd been opening windows to cool the tent, as it was hitting 80°. I'd be over there all day, checking temps and humidity, adjusting the window opening and humidifier to keep the tent optimal. Last night I had to close the windows all the way, and turn the light fan all the way down, because I got to 63° in the tent. This morning it was 79°, and P2 was droopy and super yellow on the bottom, with yellow creeping up to the next node of growth.
It seems that P1 is not at all affected by whatever is bothering P2, and even the clones seem to be keeping in the same color as the mom, while they are on just water. Could the heat be the issue, and not the feed? I'm thoroughly confused. Could heat cause yellowing at the bottom? Maybe from causing more drinking?



So, at this moment, my best guess is to give a slightly higher feed, maybe with just a touch of cal/mag for good measure, and try to keep temps more stable. My last grow had extended periods of 90° in the same tent, and I never saw yellow until flower. I have a quantum board that I really want to put in, but I'm trying not to change too many variables at once, while trying to diagnose this issue, so my brand new $1,000 light is just sitting in the box.

 

[SauronBlue]

What size pot are you in? Can you feel a difference in your watered and dry plant. If after you water they are good then in a couple of days it’s droopy after the lights been on awhile, it sounds like you need to water more frequently or up pot.

I'm in 1.5g airpots. I grew in 2l hempy pots before, but I didn't try to grow the plants big before flowering, I was doing SOG. One thing that does make sense about that diagnosis is that P2 has been growing faster than P1, so it would be the first to grow out of it's pot. I do have 5g airpots as well, but I didn't think I'd need that much soil for these plants, after seeing them. I figured I'd use the bigger pots when I move, and have more room to bush them out. I did say that I might be overly cautious with watering, so that could also be a possibility...