Decoding The Holy Grail: Terpene & Cannabinoid Retention: Decarb to Extraction

[Kicknitup1]

Bucudinkydow; Well said sir. Much to think about. I may try it again with the 151 if you guys think it will get the job done. I will pay more attention to what's happening.

 

[Kicknitup1]

There was a period where I was trying to reclaim more coconut oil from the dreggs by adding 10:1 water to the mix. I would squeeze out all I could and then add the hot water to try to float out all the additional oil trapped in the dreggs. Well, that works but I was making the nastiest tasting oil one could imagine. I mean awful. I wish there was a better way to get the chlorophyll, etc out of the Coconut oil. Even making edibles from CCO tastes pretty bad, hence the experimenting with alcohol...that and for gummys. So, we need a method of winterizing coconut oil.

 

[Bucudinkydow]

There was a period where I was trying to reclaim more coconut oil from the dreggs by adding 10:1 water to the mix. I would squeeze out all I could and then add the hot water to try to float out all the additional oil trapped in the dreggs. Well, that works but I was making the nastiest tasting oil one could imagine. I mean awful. I wish there was a better way to get the chlorophyll, etc out of the Coconut oil. Even making edibles from CCO tastes pretty bad, hence the experimenting with alcohol...that and for gummys. So, we need a method of winterizing coconut oil.

Back when I was still battling my MBM2 for acceptable product, I had limited success "washing" some infused MCT oil. My thinking was, since chlorophyll, waxes, etc are polar they are simply in a state of suspension in the oil rather than forming a homogeneous solution. Disclaimer: I'm by no means a chemist so I may be way off base with my hypothesis. But if I'm on the right track, introduction of water with some aggressive agitation should certainly give these polar elements an opportunity bond to the water molecules. I did a 1:1 mix with water and my infused MCT oil and placed it into my infamous MBM2 at 160 degrees for an hour. I honestly don't remember if I put it in the freezer afterwards or just allowed it to separate at ambient temp. I wound up with some very green water which led me to believe it was at least partially successful. It helped the taste of my edibles but still fell short of what I wanted.

 

[Bucudinkydow]

When I opened the limonene, I was greeted with an instant and overwhelming aroma of citrus. I added 3 drops to my tincture bottle containing 20-25 ml. That's slightly less than the recommended minimum mixture ratio. I added my normal dose to my coffee without great expectations. To my surprise, however, the effect had a definite added dimension to it. I had a heady, buzzy feeling with a bit of a body rush that I don't usually experience. It left me a little edgy and I'd stop short of saying it was a pleasant enhancement to my tincture.

The next day I added an additional 3 drops of the alpha pinene to the same mixture. When I had my morning wake up coffee, I found this mixture most rewarding. A very relaxed feeling with a definite elevated mood. I don't think I'd call it energetic but motivational would probably be a more appropriate description. I found myself spontaneously taking care of small chores that I would have normally passed up.
I think this is probably going to be a good mixture for dealing with depression and anxiety.

In summation, I'll give Terpene isolates a definite two big thumbs up albeit potentially a little confusing with all the options available. There's a company that's marketing premixed solutions to mimic specific strains. Possibly a better option for some but at $25 per 2ml that works out to $375 per ounce as compared to $11-20 per ounce for individual profiles.

I've since gotten over my stinginess and ordered four different strain mimicking blends at exponentially higher prices. Should be in today and I'll give updates as reapsearch evolves.

BCDD

 

[greatwolf]

There was a period where I was trying to reclaim more coconut oil from the dreggs by adding 10:1 water to the mix. I would squeeze out all I could and then add the hot water to try to float out all the additional oil trapped in the dreggs. Well, that works but I was making the nastiest tasting oil one could imagine. I mean awful. I wish there was a better way to get the chlorophyll, etc out of the Coconut oil. Even making edibles from CCO tastes pretty bad, hence the experimenting with alcohol...that and for gummys. So, we need a method of winterizing coconut oil.

Kickn, I may have an answer in a few days but it will be different from what you'll expect. I just cut a couple of buds from my Tangerine Dream in order to make some daytime caps and am fast drying them. I'll write everything up in my journal and coy it over here as I did before, but for this one there will be nothing extracted from the leaves, if I do things right.

Cheers from the darkside

 

[Kicknitup1]

Kickn, I may have an answer in a few days but it will be different from what you'll expect. I just cut a couple of buds from my Tangerine Dream in order to make some daytime caps and am fast drying them. I'll write everything up in my journal and coy it over here as I did before, but for this one there will be nothing extracted from the leaves, if I do things right.

Cheers from the darkside

It's always different from what I expect. lol. Even if things don't work it's helpful to know what has been tried already.

 

[CCOiler]

When I opened the limonene, I was greeted with an instant and overwhelming aroma of citrus. I added 3 drops to my tincture bottle containing 20-25 ml. That's slightly less than the recommended minimum mixture ratio. I added my normal dose to my coffee without great expectations. To my surprise, however, the effect had a definite added dimension to it. I had a heady, buzzy feeling with a bit of a body rush that I don't usually experience. It left me a little edgy and I'd stop short of saying it was a pleasant enhancement to my tincture.

The next day I added an additional 3 drops of the alpha pinene to the same mixture. When I had my morning wake up coffee, I found this mixture most rewarding. A very relaxed feeling with a definite elevated mood. I don't think I'd call it energetic but motivational would probably be a more appropriate description. I found myself spontaneously taking care of small chores that I would have normally passed up.
I think this is probably going to be a good mixture for dealing with depression and anxiety.

In summation, I'll give Terpene isolates a definite two big thumbs up albeit potentially a little confusing with all the options available. There's a company that's marketing premixed solutions to mimic specific strains. Possibly a better option for some but at $25 per 2ml that works out to $375 per ounce as compared to $11-20 per ounce for individual profiles.

I've since gotten over my stinginess and ordered four different strain mimicking blends at exponentially higher prices. Should be in today and I'll give updates as reapsearch evolves.

BCDD

This is great info BCDD thank you very much.

It would be awesome if you & Sue get together and start a thread on Terpene isolates with the different ways the terpenes interact with different Concentrates or strains (yes Sue, I still like the word strain) lol.

It seems to me that this is a great way to individualize doses for different illnesses.

 

[greatwolf]

This is great info BCDD thank you very much.

It would be awesome if you & Sue get together and start a thread on Terpene isolates with the different ways the terpenes interact with different Concentrates or strains (yes Sue, I still like the word strain) lol.

It seems to me that this is a great way to individualize doses for different illnesses.

It might also be a way to return terpenes to extractions that lose them, for example due to heat, or to augment for strains (how long can we keep this word going?) not available or not grown.

Cheers from the darkside

 

[Kicknitup1]

It might also be a way to return terpenes to extractions that lose them, for example due to heat, or to augment for strains (how long can we keep this word going?) not available or not grown.

Cheers from the darkside

This is where I hope we will be in a few months. Max extraction + custom terpenes added back in. Yep, whoever said it, custom meds. Fractional distillation in a home setting is a stretch so we will be buying them. But still, custom blends with as much under our control as possible....how cool is that??/

 

[Kicknitup1]

Did anybody ever say if winterization with 151 proof is worth the trouble?

 

[Bucudinkydow]

This is great info BCDD thank you very much.

It would be awesome if you & Sue get together and start a thread on Terpene isolates with the different ways the terpenes interact with different Concentrates or strains (yes Sue, I still like the word strain) lol.

It seems to me that this is a great way to individualize doses for different illnesses.

Thanx CCOiler. I think terpene additives are going to be a huge wave of the near future and perhaps a dedicated thread may be something of interest to enough members to make it worthwhile exploring.

 

[Bucudinkydow]

This is where I hope we will be in a few months. Max extraction + custom terpenes added back in. Yep, whoever said it, custom meds. Fractional distillation in a home setting is a stretch so we will be buying them. But still, custom blends with as much under our control as possible....how cool is that??/

Kind of a dream come true!?!

My order arrived this afternoon. I have four strain related blends mimicking Pineapple Express, Durban Poison, O.G. Tahoe, and O.G. Dogwalker. Durban Poison in a Blue Dream tincture is going to be my first test platform. After adding the terpenes to an oil or alcohol tincture, its recommended to let it rest for 24-48 hrs to allow for complete dispersion. Morning coffee time is going to mark about 18 hrs and that's gonna have to do!

Stay tuned.

 

[CCOiler]

Thanx CCOiler. I think terpene additives are going to be a huge wave of the near future and perhaps a dedicated thread may be something of interest to enough members to make it worthwhile exploring.

Anybody else interested? Say "I"



420 Magazine is always a head of the curb thanks to people around here, may I offer the biggest thanks to everybody here.

 

[CCOiler]

Kind of a dream come true!?!

My order arrived this afternoon. I have four strain related blends mimicking Pineapple Express, Durban Poison, O.G. Tahoe, and O.G. Dogwalker. Durban Poison in a Blue Dream tincture is going to be my first test platform. After adding the terpenes to an oil or alcohol tincture, its recommended to let it rest for 24-48 hrs to allow for complete dispersion. Morning coffee time is going to mark about 18 hrs and that's gonna have to do!

Stay tuned.

Looking forward to your report BCDD

 

[Canyon]

Thanks BCDD
Do they have a breakout of what is in the mixtures? Take some product pictures if you can.

Pinene and Limonene are two of the terpenes that, while prominent in cannabis, they are so common in many plants that I thought most of the benefits would be common knowledge by now. I am rethinking that.

This is some numbers from two tests I had run early last year. The seeds were small. I planted two seeds. They probably should have not been sold. Both seeds took their time breaking ground. The dwarf took more than a week extra. The plants had a look that was unique. The symmetry was amassing. It reminded me of a Norfolk Island Pine. They had to be the same strain.

	Dwarf Ghost Train	Ghost Train 2
	%	Mg/g	%	Mg/g
Linalool	0.015	0.15	0.042	0.42
Humulene	0.075	0.75	0.076	0.76
a-Pinene	0.1	1	0.07	0.7
B-Myrcene	0.21	2.1	0.25	2.5
Caryophyllene	0.23	2.3	0.24	2.4
D-Limonene	0.24	2.4	0.6	6
Terpinolene	0.63	6.3	0.0074	0.074

Both plants had complex highs. However, the dwarf was the better of the two.

D-Limonene is high in both plants, but Ghost 2 has twice as much. Terpinolene is nearly nonexistent in Ghost 2. Linalool in the dwarf is about 30% of the 'normal' plant.

Originally I wanted to find out if there would be differences in the terpene profiles from the same bag of seeds, maybe identify something that would cause the size difference in the plants. I did not expect anything this radical. Both tests showed rather high total terpene content at 1.50% and 1.55%. Both plants had rather low THC content. The dwarf was 17.6% and the normal girl was only 15.3%

The originally Ghost Train was clone only and I had some in California when it was rather new. Wow, it was good. It was everything I like about these two plants only with a THC content of 25+%. What I have is not one hit pot but the high is outstanding. Neither of these plants are really worth growing because the yield near nothing for the dwarf and poor for the other. I did not reclone the normal one but I have a clone of the dwarf that is about 14 months old with a trunk about the size of a pencil. It is actually starting to show some signs of vigor.

The Dwarf test is a basic test. I was tight for funds that day. I have an extended test on Ghost 2.

This is the terpenes found in Ghost 2, sorted smallest to largest. B-Pinene is the 4^th largest content in Ghost 2 but was not tested on the Dwarf. If Dwarf ever gets large enough to flower I will get a terp test on it.

	Dwerf Ghost Train	Ghost Train 2
	%	Mg/g	%	Mg/g
trans-B- Ocimene			0.0039	0.039
B-Ocimene			0.0054	0.054
Fenchone			0.0062	0.062
Terpinolene	0.63	6.3	0.0074	0.074
Borneol			0.0113	0.113
Camphene			0.021	0.21
trans-Nerolidol			0.021	0.21
Linalool	0.015	0.15	0.042	0.42
Fenchol			0.044	0.44
a-Terpineol			0.044	0.44
a-Pinene	0.1	1	0.07	0.7
Humulene	0.075	0.75	0.076	0.76
B-pinene			0.107	1.07
Caryophyllene	0.23	2.3	0.24	2.4
B-Myrcene	0.21	2.1	0.25	2.5
D-Limonene	0.24	2.4	0.6	6

 

[hazebluez]

It is starting to act like oil.

Near dry

It is hard to tell but there is a grove in the glass near the edge. To the left, the milky white is about three drops of water. If you are making caps you want to make sure that all of it is gone before filling caps.

This is 1.5g of what was extracted. I have not collected all of it yet, so I don't have a final weight yet. It looks rough here. It is not. It is frozen and somewhat crystallized from scraping it up.

This is the same oil.

This what is left.

The oil is very sappy and hard to work with, even frozen. It seriously sticks to everything. I put some shrink wrap over what is still in the dish and returned it to the freezer for a day or two. It should harden some.

It has a very acetic pine taste. It also has a slow to come on burn like chilies that can be felt on the back of your tong an hour later from licking your fingers.

I will probably think of more to add latter but for now,
I never know.

Hi Canyon ,
Im new to these forums, & though I'm not new to cultivation & edibles, concentrates are a whole new ball game for me!and I'm really trying to find the most efficient way to produce ending product. Throughout my research, i wanted to try something similar to this which was:
1)Decarb - THCA or CBDA or it is also possible in conjunction w/ 1 decarbed & non decarbed
2) Then follow using Extraction of cannabis plant material with supercritical CO2+
3) +2% w/w ethanol (everclear)
(which results in significant recovery of cannabinoid frm raw material)
4) Winterization (everclear)
5)Filtration
6)Evaporation
I have pressure&temp timings too,but I was looking at your Decard to Extraction process using Co2, ever clear and am fascinated! I am wondering if you wouldn't mind sharing a few more detailed tips as you went about the process? Materials needed? Temp/timing used?
I would really appreciate it.

If not, keep up the good work!
Thanks,Hazel

 

[Bucudinkydow]

Thanks BCDD
Do they have a breakout of what is in the mixtures? Take some product pictures if you can.

Pinene and Limonene are two of the terpenes that, while prominent in cannabis, they are so common in many plants that I thought most of the benefits would be common knowledge by now. I am rethinking
This is some numbers from two tests I had run early last year. The seeds were small. I planted two seeds. They probably should have not been sold. Both seeds took their time breaking ground. The dwarf took more than a week extra. The plants had a look that was unique. The symmetry was amassing. It reminded me of a Norfolk Island Pine. They had to be the same strain.

	Dwarf Ghost Train	Ghost Train 2
	%	Mg/g	%	Mg/g
Linalool	0.015	0.15	0.042	0.42
Humulene	0.075	0.75	0.076	0.76
a-Pinene	0.1	1	0.07	0.7
B-Myrcene	0.21	2.1	0.25	2.5
Caryophyllene	0.23	2.3	0.24	2.4
D-Limonene	0.24	2.4	0.6	6
Terpinolene	0.63	6.3	0.0074	0.074

Both plants had complex highs. However, the dwarf was the better of the two.

D-Limonene is high in both plants, but Ghost 2 has twice as much. Terpinolene is nearly nonexistent in Ghost 2. Linalool in the dwarf is about 30% of the ‘normal’ plant.

Originally I wanted to find out if there would be differences in the terpene profiles from the same bag of seeds, maybe identify something that would cause the size difference in the plants. I did not expect anything this radical. Both tests showed rather high total terpene content at 1.50% and 1.55%. Both plants had rather low THC content. The dwarf was 17.6% and the normal girl was only 15.3%

The originally Ghost Train was clone only and I had some in California when it was rather new. Wow, it was good. It was everything I like about these two plants only with a THC content of 25+%. What I have is not one hit pot but the high is outstanding. Neither of these plants are really worth growing because the yield near nothing for the dwarf and poor for the other. I did not reclone the normal one but I have a clone of the dwarf that is about 14 months old with a trunk about the size of a pencil. It is actually starting to show some signs of vigor.

The Dwarf test is a basic test. I was tight for funds that day. I have an extended test on Ghost 2.

This is the terpenes found in Ghost 2, sorted smallest to largest. B-Pinene is the 4^th largest content in Ghost 2 but was not tested on the Dwarf. If Dwarf ever gets large enough to flower I will get a terp test on it.

	Dwerf Ghost Train	Ghost Train 2
	%	Mg/g	%	Mg/g
trans-B- Ocimene			0.0039	0.039
B-Ocimene			0.0054	0.054
Fenchone			0.0062	0.062
Terpinolene	0.63	6.3	0.0074	0.074
Borneol			0.0113	0.113
Camphene			0.021	0.21
trans-Nerolidol			0.021	0.21
Linalool	0.015	0.15	0.042	0.42
Fenchol			0.044	0.44
a-Terpineol			0.044	0.44
a-Pinene	0.1	1	0.07	0.7
Humulene	0.075	0.75	0.076	0.76
B-pinene			0.107	1.07
Caryophyllene	0.23	2.3	0.24	2.4
B-Myrcene	0.21	2.1	0.25	2.5
D-Limonene	0.24	2.4	0.6	6

WHAT'S IN THE BOTTLE: Nothing but terpenes.
True Terpene Profiles are made from 100% terpenes, nothing else.
Terpinolene
Humulene
Beta Caryophyllene
Linalool
Myrcene
Limonene
Alpha Pinene
Beta Pinene
Caryophyllene Oxide

Canyon, this is the list of terpenes in this strain in descending volume order. terpinolene makes up almost 75% of the total. I'm not familiar with this particular terpene and haven't researched it yet. I felt that staying ignorant of its properties would help me avoid possible suggestive bias in my review.

I shamefully have to admit my picture upload skills have failed me. It's been about 2 years since I've done that. Refamiliarizing myself with the process is on my punch list for today so stand by.

BCDD

 

[Oldbear]

Click 420 Entertainment>420 Gallery take you to the upload picture option

They moved it

 

[Oldbear]

Could someone do a wee test and share what happens?

one tiny drop of terpenes in some edible oil with no thc/cbd at all - Id really like to know what happens with that dose.

 

[Bucudinkydow]

Holy crap boys and girls!! I wish I could magically teleport a little sample of this to each and everyone of you!

I put 2 drops of the blended Durban Poison in a half ounce of Blue Dream tincture I've been enjoying. It's totally beyond my imagination how such a minute amount of anything can have such a drastic effect.

The first thing that I noticed was the incredibly fast on set. As I was swallowing my second sip of coffee I began noticing a slight head buzz. Initially, I discounted it as a placebo effect induced by overwhelming expectations but the feeling continued to soar. After a continual level elevation, about five minutes in I realized it was definitely for real.

The only way I can account for such a rapid on set is attribution to lingual, sublingual and buccul absorption directly into the blood stream. There's absolutely no way it could have undergone assimilation in the digestive tract, metabolization by the liver and uptake by the the ECS system inside of 2 minutes. A real curiosity I'd like to explore further.

This has presented a total head buzz. No body relaxation at all. Just a very clear headed feeling with a definite elevation in mood. It's short of a euphoria but I occasionally have to bite my tongue a bit to avoid breaking out in a big ear to ear grin. I'm a big music aficionado and almost always have a set of earbuds hanging from my ears while I'm out and about by myself. Nothing out of the ordinary this morning until I suddenly realized I was singing along to the stupid lyrics of "We all live in a yellow submarine". Really out of context for me!

I've noticed a slight pressure in my temple area that comes and goes. Nothing that I would consider uncomfortable but yet a point of a little annoyance.

At my stage of life I feel the use of the term "energetic" is a little inappropriate. I'll have to admit, however, I actually started composing this post over an hour ago but but experienced an incessant urge to just get up and do something. I grabbed my string trimmer and went down to the common area of our development and topped the vastly overgrown big blue liriope. Something I've felt needed doing for a long while. Hope the homeowners association agrees!

One of the assets I've enjoyed with using a cannabis medication is the elimination of the constant joint pain associated with the aging process. My products have been largely effective in this area except when we're at our mountain home. Constantly navigating over three floors during the course of the day takes a toll on my old knees that have suffered a lifetime of abuse of hard work and even harder play. I've definitely noticed a decrease in the little nagging discomfort but am going to hold short of attributing it to the addition of the terpenes just yet.

The one thing that I'm missing from this is an increased since of awareness. I wouldn't classify this as a good potion to curl up in front of the tv and really get into a good movie. If this was included in the package, it would absolutely be over the top.

I'm going up shortly to share a couple of drops with a close member of my posse and hopefully I'll be able to give you a second assessment tomorrow.

I'm going to say this is definitely a really good blend for getting things done and enjoying it. With slight reservations, this morning has been one of the more enjoyable experiences I've had with any of my ingestible cannabis concoctions I've had in the past couple of years.

Folks, put terpene additives high on your list of things to try!

Tomorrow's platform of experimentation is going to be Pineapple Express in a tincture of Dance World, a 1:1 thc:cbd.

Luvin' this!!

BCDD