Defoliation - Is there yet a definitive answer?

[Weaselcracker]

The only plants I’ve seen on the forums that appeared to produce well after heavy defol, were heavy indica Kush type strains. It’s something that may jncrease yield a bit with certain strains if done right. But for the average grower it seems unnecessary and usually harmful. If you really need that extra 10% yield or whatever and have the right situation then I’m sure it has its uses.
As for thinning out plants to reduce the number of bud sites, that’s SOP especially in a scrog. Or at least in my scrogs. Removing tangled growth, lower branches and ‘extra’ budsites in an overcrowded plant isn’t the same as removing fan leaves just because they are there. Yes it still slows the plant down, but is usually the lesser of two evils compared to growing a thicket.

 

[LoGiK287]

My blue dream has been harmed by terpinator foliar spraying but managed to give decent result :

Blue dream beast

• flashmp3
• Apr 19, 2018

Transplanted yesterday cause I needed the pot for the next grow. She seems alright

I had to suppercrop some branches during flowering cause it was stretching a bit to much but as you can see it was not tiny flowers on tiny branches. So I think blue dream requires good amount of light to avoid stretching. Something like decent 70000 lux.

Regarding the defoliation I ve seen awesome results in some journals. Myself I could never conclude it had increased yields. There so many settings that play a role! Sometimes I tend to think that defoliation just perhaps force the plant to expand root system. So maybe when the plant starts to recover, it has more roots so can develop better. Defoliation also allow to give better light penetration which helps growing bigger buds. So I think the more important is to do it gently. Not too much. Just enough to prevent shaded bud sites. I would be very interesting to be able to compare root system of two plants with one defoliated. IMO the good results come in a good part just from the fact that the plant has to recover and maybe meanwhile produces more roots which lead later to more yields. Just a thought....

Your lady looks like a monster!

I am running a 600 watt hps, but haven’t tested the lumens. I’d hope I’m well above that mark, the specs on my ballast and bulb claim 95,000 lumens.

I’m intrigued. I guess I need to differentiate between extreme defoliation and simply removing the tangled lower growth.

I am curious about the process of removing 70% of the fan leaves throughout veg and into flower, but very skeptical about it having positive effect.

On the other side, I wonder if I did not follow Weasel’s SOP in the regard that I left a lot of tangled lower growth that would never see light. I only removed everything below the trellis. As my girls continued to stretch it shadowed a good amount of lower branching. When I say “too many bud sites” I’m thinkin Maybe I should be doing more work to remove the sucker branches near the trellis level as well.

Your terminology of a “thicket” is exactly what I ended up with. No thick colas anywhere.

 

[SweeetExide]

this one on gas exchanges in goldenrod after defoliation, specifically about of leaf and area on the plant affected

https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1046/j.1365-2435.1998.00193.x

and this about carbohydrate store in biomass after defoliation in perennials

The dynamics of recovery and growth: how defoliation affects stored resources

and this on grapevine defoliation, specifically the time of defoliation affecting sugar and anthocyanin content

Selective defoliation affects plant growth, fruit transcriptional ripening program and flavonoid metabolism in grapevine

hope they help, some plants DO benefit from it

 

[coralman]

From my experience I think it's strain dependant and a good stable indica dominant will be more happy. I currently have gorilla cookies which I pretty much lollipopped last run and didn't respond well at all but it's really hard to leave them. I defolled a few 2 weeks in and might do the whole lot last 7-10 days help the lower half ripen up with the top colas. I'm still learning so just have too see and play around. It's the fun part of growing for me.

 

[Tony Urban]

I had the same issue, stretchy bud development, from both my HSO green crack and my Blue Dream. I still don’t know exactly why it did that. Makes me wonder what other similarities we had in our grows. Smoke still got you good and buzzed but.

Green crack

• Tony Urban
• Jan 27, 2018

Defoliation, and their results, is dependant on many factors imho. Genetics, grow medium, training techniques, and light type/intensity.

Anyone who claims to 100% know for sure, doesn’t, and may be able to claim that it works for them under the conditions they grow in. Without science, actually repeatable testable results in each possible grow scenario, we can’t say with any kind of authority.

I don’t defoliate. I grow in living organic soil and it seems to defoliate on its own. The plant tells you when it’s done with those leaves. Perhaps those in hydro or coco need to because they are force feeding the plant nutrients and they don’t need to rob fan leaves of stored nutrients. I don’t know, all I can speak to is my plants in my soil under my lighting conditions.

My two cents anyway.

 

[flashmp3]

I had the same issue, stretchy bud development, from both my HSO green crack and my Blue Dream. I still don’t know exactly why it did that. Makes me wonder what other similarities we had in our grows. Smoke still got you good and buzzed but.

Green crack

• Tony Urban
• Jan 27, 2018

Defoliation, and their results, is dependant on many factors imho. Genetics, grow medium, training techniques, and light type/intensity.

Anyone who claims to 100% know for sure, doesn’t, and may be able to claim that it works for them under the conditions they grow in. Without science, actually repeatable testable results in each possible grow scenario, we can’t say with any kind of authority.

I don’t defoliate. I grow in living organic soil and it seems to defoliate on its own. The plant tells you when it’s done with those leaves. Perhaps those in hydro or coco need to because they are force feeding the plant nutrients and they don’t need to rob fan leaves of stored nutrients. I don’t know, all I can speak to is my plants in my soil under my lighting conditions.

My two cents anyway.

My first hso green crack grow didn't give better results on defoliated plant. I had two plants same size and defoliated one to test. Results wasn't showing better yields..... HOWEVER, during my last grow I realized I had pH problem in both grows. As soon as I fixed the pH trouble, my green crack could take any training without any single trouble. I even did supercropping in flowering without trouble. I think that in fact results depend on many factors, but I do think that weed is strong! So if you manage to keep your plants in a good environment with no defiency and no burn but just the right amount of everything (as well as temps and RH), they will give great results after recoving from defoliation. When you remove biggest fan leaves, you see immediately that trunks and other branches that will support bud sites get bigger and thicker. Plus so many people have good results with it. I can't find a video I had seen on YouTube. A timelapse showing wonderful and perfect health plants defoliated 2 weeks before flowering then again after stretch (around 3-4 weeks! Result is amazing! Huge massive buds all other even on the lower branches. So the more important is condition and health of the plant then I m sure any training or defoliation done gently should lead to a stronger plant later

 

[Ganjagrowergu]

I am growing 12/12 from seed currently, just 6 little girls. I used to defoliate which i eventually realized was killing my plants in my environment.
This grow, 42 days in, I have not plucked a single leave that had 50% or more of its color left. My plants are very happy and healthy now instead of weak and prone to the smallest of problems. I do believe that in a proper environment defoliation works, just not mine.
I tuck the big bud blocking leaves now. good enough for me...That's it. My whole 2¢


Peace

 

[Perfect Sun LED]

Over the years I have gone back and forth. My largest yielders are the ones I at least lollipop and remove any leaves blocking bud sites.

 

[flashmp3]

Over the years I have gone back and forth. My largest yielders are the ones I at least lollipop and remove any leaves blocking bud sites.

Thanks for sharing. I do think what you describe which works the best for you, is what it need to be done. The plant seems to redistribute the energy that would have been used to manage to mature lower shaded buds. Redistributing it to the top seems to be the more efficient way to improve yields. It also avoid risks of loss by too intensive defoliation. Just my 2 cent from the hundred grow journal I ve been reading for two years

 

[800W-GROWER]

Maybe my methods were the cause, or maybe i cloned a bad phenotype. they were probably 4’ tall when I was able to get them under a trellis. I supercropped them to get them to lay horizontally.

They continued to grow vertically at least 4-5’ above the trellis stretching like crazy and producing single finger leafs, until I was maxed out on my light height. Nothing ever fattened up and I was left with very spindly buds.

I didn’t defoliate much beyond removing anything under the canopy.

IMG_1130.JPG

• LoGiK287
• May 16, 2018

scraggler bud

IMG_1137.JPG

• LoGiK287
• May 16, 2018

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• LoGiK287
• Apr 19, 2018

Under cannopy Day 63 flower

They appear to be re-vegging,look at the leaves.more info,please on what you do daily with them

 

[greenforpres]

Single fingered leaves? You sure you don't have a light leak or wonky timer? Sounds like a reveg issue and nothing to do with defoliation

I was thinking the same.