Diagnose buds: bud rot? Smoke cloud coming from cracked bud

[pawtz]

STRAIN: Black Domina (harvested at around 9 weeks)

So I know right out of the gate that there's an issue with this bud since smoke is coming from it when cracked.

Just wanted to get an idea on what all might be wrong with it since I just lost 2oz on this plant. I have another plant(White Widow) that is doing well and hoping that nothing bad happens to it.

I did spot visible mold on one area after drying (about 1/4"-3/8" in size) and tossed that whole section in the trash.
I dried for a total of 10 days(68-74F & 53-65% RH (dried in a cardboard box w/ a fan @ the top)) before the branches started making noises when bending.

I noticed smoke on one occasion as I was cutting buds off their branches while trimming and finished the trimming job with the other buds.
I then googled the smoke cloud issue and was met with bad news that is was mold/bad etc of some sorts.
I then took cuts in several other buds and was met with the same issue from the other buds that I cut into.
So it's a complete loss as all/most buds are doing this.

I'm hoping to prevent this from happening again.

I did try to pollenate this plant(black domina) with an STS'd white widow plant that didn't produce viable pollen. It produced some pollen(the white widow plant), but it never took. Doubt that had anything to do with the below. There are no pollen sacs on this plant and the smoke coming from the bud when cracked is 100% not pollen.

I also see no patches showing any decay like bud rot, but some of the hairs(pistil things) are orangish/brown while others are a bit lighter in color. The led light was a bit close to some of the buds, but not all. This issue(?) happened on all buds though to some degree. Some are almost brownish grey in color, but show no webbing when I inspected those areas.
-----
~CUTTING BUD OPEN (cloud visible)

-----
~EXAMPLE BUD

-----
~ROOTS

-----
~ETC PICS

-----

-----
~Pics under scope.
I see no spider webbing of any kind when I inspected a few buds that cracked.
I do see the below hair things (which I'm not 100% sure what they are).

-----
Thanks for any feedback.

 

[bluter]

the hair is usually the mold.

hang about for some other input. whenever i have had mold the interior of the bud is molded and brown when i crack them open. i can't really tell looking at the surface of the buds if they are affected.

edit : the "smoke" would be dried spores.

 

[Phytoplankton]

Much like @bluter, sometimes the mold is visible, hairy stringy looking with brown or quickly blackening leaves. Other times I’ve had buds that looked great but when cut off the stem or broken open they released that “puff of smoke” and the interior was brown. You’re correct the smoke is spores. Bud rot from the inside is insidious, because most times you don’t see it at all or at least not until it’s too late.

 

[SmokingWings]

Sorry to see your problem. After looking at part of one of your videos it certainly does look like a cloud of spores from some sort of mold or mildew inside the buds. Which one, no clue.

Though, I gotta admit it is a nice looking harvest, at least from what is showing on the boxes and in the jars.

I'm hoping to prevent this from happening again.

The first thing would be to try to find out what mold or mildew is involved. Then do a prevention schedule on the future plants to keep whatever it is from getting a start. Even if you are not able to find out the specific mold or mildew still do some sort of clean-up of the room or tent. Especially the room where the plants were grown and where you were cutting open the buds to look at the smoke cloud. Then do the prevention program or spraying before flowering starts in an attempt to stay ahead of the problem.

From what I have read the spores of most mildews are short lived and easy to kill. But, the spores of many molds are hard to kill and might last in some sort of dormant stage for years.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Hey @pawtz, sorry to hear you're encountering some mold.

I agree with that the others have said, and can't say much more. I've never experienced this, although I do deal with quite a bit of mold in my tropical environment. I trim my buds when they are fresh and green, and at that point I already know if I'm going to be dealing with bud rot, because I begin to see it when the buds are still on the plants. If there's a lot of bud rot, I'll do a salvage harvest and salvage trim job. For trimming, I wear a headlamp and high-magnification reading glasses. That way I can tell right away if a bud is a keeper or not. Phyto is right... bud rot is very stealthy and sometimes you can't see it because it's buried inside the bud. So that's why when I do a salvage trim, I poke around and try to see what's inside. I absolutely hate that job! Sooooo... this is why I'm now on a quest to find mold-resistant strains... you can read my thread HERE.

good luck!

 

[pawtz]

The first thing would be to try to find out what mold or mildew is involved. Then do a prevention schedule on the future plants to keep whatever it is from getting a start. Even if you are not able to find out the specific mold or mildew still do some sort of clean-up of the room or tent. Especially the room where the plants were grown and where you were cutting open the buds to look at the smoke cloud. Then do the prevention program or spraying before flowering starts in an attempt to stay ahead of the problem.

From what I have read the spores of most mildews are short lived and easy to kill. But, the spores of many molds are hard to kill and
might last in some sort of dormant stage for years.

Not sure what type of mold or mildew it would be. It would have to be something that would need to be sent to a lab I assume. It was a brand new grow box. So it wouldn't be contaminated by another grow. I did intake the air from my bedroom. So not sure if there's something in the air that latched itself on the plants. If that's the case then I'm screwed.

Hey @pawtz, sorry to hear you're encountering some mold.

I agree with that the others have said, and can't say much more. I've never experienced this, although I do deal with quite a bit of mold in my tropical environment. I trim my buds when they are fresh and green, and at that point I already know if I'm going to be dealing with bud rot, because I begin to see it when the buds are still on the plants. If there's a lot of bud rot, I'll do a salvage harvest and salvage trim job. For trimming, I wear a headlamp and high-magnification reading glasses. That way I can tell right away if a bud is a keeper or not. Phyto is right... bud rot is very stealthy and sometimes you can't see it because it's buried inside the bud. So that's why when I do a salvage trim, I poke around and try to see what's inside. I absolutely hate that job! Sooooo... this is why I'm now on a quest to find mold-resistant strains... you can read my thread HERE.

good luck!

I trim with a headlamp and jewelers loupe to help me spot things. I will check that thread out on mold resistant strains. The White Widow is supposed to be mold resistant (from what I google searched), but ended up with the mold/powder cloud issue.

I think my issue might have something to do with my fan(+humidifier) placement and maybe lack of good airflow. I keep my humidifier in my tent(until late veg) and have some fans that blow directly on the plants(they run 24/7 veg/flower). So they might have picked up the distilled water from my humidifier and that could be giving the plants issues since the fans blow next to the plants and the humidifier is inches away.

I just had the White Widow do the same thing. I only seen one visible mold spot on it (white fuzzy 1/4" or so area) and trimmed around that area (after drying). I was so happy that it looked and smelled better than the last plant(black domina) and was under the impression that all was good, but then I noticed that when I cut some of the buds open it would display the same results (mold? / powder cloud when cut open) as the OP strain(black domina). I wasn't as visible as shown in the video in the OP, but it was still there to a small degree. So that's another 3.2oz gone. So in total I lost 5.2oz. So sad.

 

[pawtz]

All gone . Looked so good as well.

 

[Skunksta]

when your in flower whats your r/h like.Cause doudt that mold is a drying issue.
Looks like its well established by then.sorry about your luck.

 

[pawtz]

when your in flower whats your r/h like.Cause doudt that mold is a drying issue.
Looks like its well established by then.sorry about your luck.

HUMIDITY: 50-60% during all VEG growth(lower % during late veg) and around 35-50% during harvest. I take the humidifier out during late veg.

TEMP: 75-81F during VEG growth and 79-86F during flower. Late flower gets higher temps(highest being 86F).

The above was for this grow.

 

[SmokingWings]

So not sure if there's something in the air that latched itself on the plants. If that's the case then I'm screwed.

Mold and mildew spores are blowing in the wind all the time. Molds might slow down during the winter but many will survive even below freezing temperatures. Mildews are more likely to die if they are in freezing temperatures. Then as spring comes the mildews in warm climates will start reproducing and the winds start pushing the spores around. As the weather warms in the spring and early summer the chance of a mildew or mold spore landing on one of our plants goes up.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Hey @pawtz , sorry to hear you lost good herb to but rot. It's something I'm very familiar with, except I'm growing outdoors. As others have said, the mold spores are drifting around everywhere. In my case, I live in a major mold zone – warm tropical forest area with lots of rain and humidity. Since you're indoors, you at least have the ability to control temperature and humidity, so I'd say look into doing that using a dehumidifier and possibly an air conditioner.

"Fungal spores ... are ubiquitous and germinate under favorable conditions: moist environment, oxygen, temperatures between 50 and 70° F (10-21° C) and an acidic surface on the host." – Ed Rosenthal

Here's Ed's article on drying and curing... some helpful tips on how to avoid mold...

Four Options for Small-Scale Drying and Curing of Cannabis — Ed Rosenthal

Drying and curing cannabis flowers takes time and patience, but the finished buds are worth the wait. Here are four options for small-scale drying and curing marijuana.

www.edrosenthal.com

I recently listed some mold-resistant strains HERE. I've also heard that ChemDawg is very mold-resistant.

 

[013]

Ahh Pawtz, the best part is you saved quite a bit of nuggets! Congrats on that!!!

sounds like you need to run dehum all thru flower… pull that rh down…

sulfur dust is preventative for pm and botyritis.. aka bud rot…. sulfur is naturally occurring plant friendly element, can be added to soil mix or mixed with water for foliar spray…

just be sure to read & understand labels because oils and sulfur can damage your leaves if used within 2 weeks of each other in foliar spray applications

 

[cbdhemp808]

I forgot to mention this bit about the beneficial fungus, Trichoderma, which has the ability to...

"...significantly suppress the growth of plant pathogenic microorganisms and regulate the rate of plant growth. Recent works have shown that common plant disease such as root rot disease, damping off, wilt, fruit rot and other plant diseases can be controlled by Trichoderma [fungus species]."

@Keffka mentioned that Great White myco contains Trichoderma. I'm looking into other sources for it as well.

 

[Keffka]

I run my rh at 60-80 during Veg and 50-70 during flower. I don’t have fungus, mold or mildew issues. For mold and mildew The key is airflow and air exchange. You’ve gotta make sure you’re replacing the air in your grow instead of just moving it around. You want enough cfm to be able to replace all of the air in your area every 5 minutes.

For fungus issues, that’s spore related. You’re either encountering fungal spores during your day and bringing it in, or something near your room is spitting them out. Good airflow and air exchange can ward this off as well by never allowing the spores to settle on your plants. You’ll want to hunt down the cause of this once you’ve made sure you’ve gotta good airflow and air exchange

 

[Keffka]

I forgot to mention this bit about the beneficial fungus, Trichoderma, which has the ability to...

"...significantly suppress the growth of plant pathogenic microorganisms and regulate the rate of plant growth. Recent works have shown that common plant disease such as root rot disease, damping off, wilt, fruit rot and other plant diseases can be controlled by Trichoderma [fungus species]."

@Keffka mentioned that Great White myco contains Trichoderma. I'm looking into other sources for it as well.

You can buy just straight up trichoderma or there’s plenty of products available online with it included. I like great white because it’s relatively cheap for what it is and comes with beneficial bacteria as well as myco. It has lasted me quite a while and I’m pleased with it.

 

[pawtz]

Hey @pawtz , sorry to hear you lost good herb to but rot. It's something I'm very familiar with, except I'm growing outdoors. As others have said, the mold spores are drifting around everywhere. In my case, I live in a major mold zone – warm tropical forest area with lots of rain and humidity. Since you're indoors, you at least have the ability to control temperature and humidity, so I'd say look into doing that using a dehumidifier and possibly an air conditioner.

"Fungal spores ... are ubiquitous and germinate under favorable conditions: moist environment, oxygen, temperatures between 50 and 70° F (10-21° C) and an acidic surface on the host." – Ed Rosenthal

Here's Ed's article on drying and curing... some helpful tips on how to avoid mold...

Four Options for Small-Scale Drying and Curing of Cannabis — Ed Rosenthal

Drying and curing cannabis flowers takes time and patience, but the finished buds are worth the wait. Here are four options for small-scale drying and curing marijuana.

www.edrosenthal.com

I recently listed some mold-resistant strains HERE. I've also heard that ChemDawg is very mold-resistant.

I'm still checking that thread out. My White Widow is said to be mold resistant, but I still had my issue . So I'm not sure to what extent the strain needs to be resistant.

It could have been something related to trying to reverse (w/ STS) that plant and spreading the pollen around (didn't get much pollen and the pollen that I got wasn't viable). The Black Domina had the issue on nearly every bud and it was also very noticeable (I noticed it w/o using a headlamp to inspect @ first). So I will scratch this off my to-do list. My exhaust fan setup could also use an upgrade and my fans(+ placement) as well.

Ahh Pawtz, the best part is you saved quite a bit of nuggets! Congrats on that!!!

sounds like you need to run dehum all thru flower… pull that rh down…

sulfur dust is preventative for pm and botyritis.. aka bud rot…. sulfur is naturally occurring plant friendly element, can be added to soil mix or mixed with water for foliar spray…

just be sure to read & understand labels because oils and sulfur can damage your leaves if used within 2 weeks of each other in foliar spray applications

I actually lost 98-99% the entire crop from both grows (did a few bowls of the WW). The newest pics of the buds you see stacked and in jars is of what was lost. I did smoke some of the White Widow as I didn't notice the problem till around day 3 or so when I took the buds out of the jars and gave another inspection. I noticed right out of the gate that some were displaying the same symptoms as the Black Domina with the mold or mildew spore cloud when I broke open of the buds under a light.

I forgot to mention this bit about the beneficial fungus, Trichoderma, which has the ability to...

"...significantly suppress the growth of plant pathogenic microorganisms and regulate the rate of plant growth. Recent works have shown that common plant disease such as root rot disease, damping off, wilt, fruit rot and other plant diseases can be controlled by Trichoderma [fungus species]."

@Keffka mentioned that Great White myco contains Trichoderma. I'm looking into other sources for it as well.

I have Recharge and Mykos(granular). Recharge states it contains Trichoderma and I used it throughout the grow once a week until about 4 weeks of flower.

I run my rh at 60-80 during Veg and 50-70 during flower. I don’t have fungus, mold or mildew issues. For mold and mildew The key is airflow and air exchange. You’ve gotta make sure you’re replacing the air in your grow instead of just moving it around. You want enough cfm to be able to replace all of the air in your area every 5 minutes.

For fungus issues, that’s spore related. You’re either encountering fungal spores during your day and bringing it in, or something near your room is spitting them out. Good airflow and air exchange can ward this off as well by never allowing the spores to settle on your plants. You’ll want to hunt down the cause of this once you’ve made sure you’ve gotta good airflow and air exchange

I will add more fans in the future. I will also work on upgrading the exhaust setup to something more powerful.
I'm going to do one of those $40 mold tests where you send samples in just to see what it pulls up. It doesn't go in-depth, but should show something of use. Also going to inspect around the walls where the baseboard is since carpets and pads can form mold on the edge if there's any moisture from inside or outside that is creeping in those areas. Going to spray the areas as well. Don't know what to do other than that. Maybe bud washing once I look more into it. See what all that works for in terms of mold and/or mildew.

 

[Keffka]

I will add more fans in the future. I will also work on upgrading the exhaust setup to something more powerful.
I'm going to do one of those $40 mold tests where you send samples in just to see what it pulls up. It doesn't go in-depth, but should show something of use. Also going to inspect around the walls where the baseboard is since carpets and pads can form mold on the edge if there's any moisture from inside or outside that is creeping in those areas. Going to spray the areas as well. Don't know what to do other than that. Maybe bud washing once I look more into it. See what all that works for in terms of mold and/or mildew

You’re on the right track.. resilience is important, and it sounds like you’ve got a multi prong strategy going on. One thing I can recommend for the grow room itself is, the nuclear option. Remove all plants from the room. Keep the temperature above 68F for 10 days with no plants in it. Afterwards, don’t let anyone in your grow room except for yourself. If you can’t do this, then set a hard limit that no one is allowed in there if they’ve been in another infected garden recently. Do not enter your room directly after being outside, especially if you garden outside.

You’ll also want to try to form a habit of either only entering your room after you wake up in the morning, or, keeping a set of clean clothes specifically for entering your grow room.

 

[pawtz]

You’re on the right track.. resilience is important, and it sounds like you’ve got a multi prong strategy going on. One thing I can recommend for the grow room itself is, the nuclear option. Remove all plants from the room. Keep the temperature above 68F for 10 days with no plants in it. Afterwards, don’t let anyone in your grow room except for yourself. If you can’t do this, then set a hard limit that no one is allowed in there if they’ve been in another infected garden recently. Do not enter your room directly after being outside, especially if you garden outside.

You’ll also want to try to form a habit of either only entering your room after you wake up in the morning, or, keeping a set of clean clothes specifically for entering your grow room.

I live in an apartment and I grow in the same room I sleep in. The indoor temp is typically around 75. The box was inside my closet area. I took out everything already and trashed it. Plan on making a new setup w/ more powerful fans and a more powerful exhaust. I grow in a corner of my closet and plan to clean the area with mold/mildew agents and tape off the baseboard area w/ tape. My plants intake the same air that I breath, so no outside air. Not sure if that's something I need to change by routing an intake duct to a window to pull air in. Just was under the impression that the air in the room was better since it's intaking the CO2 that I'm exhaling.

 

[Keffka]

Ok, so then it sounds like an airflow problem with a possible spore source. Apartments are tough since you can’t control what others do and you have no idea what’s happened there before you. You’re definitely making the right moves already.

I’m gonna do a bit of reading on apartment growing so I can give you the best answer possible for your situation.

 

[Lowrider72]

You need fresh air for plants, and old air exhausted out , recirculated air unless scrubbed will mean mould.
You don't need to throw those bits away, but don't smoke them , as mould is VERY bad for your lungs.

You have white or grey mould, totally treatable. It's the black mould that is untreatable and should be thrown.

White/Grey mould treatment ......

Get your buds, trim them off the stems into smaller pieces about 1/2 the size of a Bic lighter
Put them on a baking tray and into the oven at VERY low temperature.... I mean like 120C , you want to kill the mould and spores, not the THC.
Leave in there for 5-10 minutes tops.

After this they are safe to smoke.

Never store moulded buds even with humidity packs until treated.
Hope that helps your dilemma.

And get those plants some fresh air, all your doing is spreading spores through everything.

Grow well !

LR72.