Expected Yield from SOG

[plan500]

Fellow growers,

I will throw a lot of info and questions, so bare with me

Those of you who have experience with SOG (maximizing yield) will be more helpful, however I'm open to comments from everyone.

HERE WE GO:

I've been growing for some years now, adjusting my method (SOG) along the way, however I can't seem to get more than 0.7oz-0.77 (20-23 gr) per plant on average dry mass. My record is 0.95 (27gr) but I managed to do it once and it was probably luck with genetics and other random factors. I have more than 50 harvests behind my back, running a continuous loop with a harvest every month.

So I am able to make experiments and adjust and test hypothesis all the time. However I reached a limit and I can't figure what to improve next as I feel I am getting average results in terms of yield. (Quality is fine, all dense and crystal buds.) Plants are healthy throughout.


My question is, is this an adequate yield for my conditions? And what could be my limiting factor in terms of yield.

I will post info and images from all stages of my grow to help you get an idea of my setup and what I do.



MY SETUP AND METHOD:

Lights: Custom LED with samsung diodes.
Soil: Lightmix peat based by Plagron with some perlite
Nutrients: Plagron, using the full range of products at about 75% strength. Its a Dutch brand, popular in Europe. Alga - organic line.

These are my total PPMs in Flower weeks 1-8.

313

411

570

875

1032

1189

1250

750

This is my light schedule in PPFD: Flower weeks 1-8.

300

350

450

500

600

650

650

550

and VPD ranges in flowering (1-8)

0.7 - 0.9

0.7 - 0.9

0.8 - 1.0

0.9 - 1.1

0.9 - 1.1

1.0 - 1.2

1.0 - 1.2

1.1 - 1.3

Watering schedule flowering (1-8)

1 L

1.2 L

1.4 L

1.6 L

1.6 L

1.7 L

1.8 L

I keep my temps at about 80F (78-82F) or about 26-27 degrees and adjust humidity to get the VPD ranges (58-65% in flowering)
Growing 3.5 weeks (25 days) 20/4 from seeds straight into 2 gallon pots start to end. (Did tried a smaller container with a repot with no serious difference.)
Floweringperiod 8 weeks.
Each plant has a little under one square foot of space (30x30 cm.) Or even a bit less
Plants are under LED 300 - 650ppfd start to finish.
In weeks 5-8 of flowering stage plants are watered 1.7L per 4-5 days. Nute with every watring + wormcasting composts. (No flushing)
Seeds: Have tried many, specifically recommended for SOG. Short and bushy. 7-9 weeks flowering period.


SOME THOUGHTS:

1. Extending growing period and/or flowering period with 10-11 weeks seeds will obviously increase the Yield but I need to stick to this specific schedule so lets keep those fixed. 25 Veg from seed.

2. Obviously space per plant is inevitably a limiting factor in SOG, however I have heard of people yielding 1.4oz (40+ grams)+ per plant and their pots seem to have even less space than mine or similar.

3. What about light, experience has showed me that If I go over 700ppfd in flower (weeks 5-8) plants just seems to get stressed and this usually affects the yield negatively. I assume I have other limiting factors that do not allow me to push light above 700 ppfd, meanwhile some people go up to 1500ppfd. Is this related to the short veg and generally small plants?

I also veg with 300-400ppfd ... perhaps I don't get them used to strong light in early-mid veg? Can't understand how to get those plants take 600-700ppfd in veg and 800-900ppfd in flower without issues.

4. Am I being to easy on the light / VPD? Perhaps I play it too safe? Some people grow at 1.2 VPD while others manage to get it up to 1.6. I my experience VPD above 1.4 and temps above 84F, 29 degree in weeks 5-8 have always affected my yield negatively.

5. What about PPMs? Here is another post of mine, a slight deficiency that might relate to underfeeding. What do you think. Could this be pointing to a combination of underfeeding and low light in combination?

Can anyone identify this symptom on the top leaves?

I have this issue coming up with every grow, usually in week 6 and it affects about 20% of all plants. This has been going on for 4-5 grows and I wonder what is it and should I do something about it. Rest of plants are ok.

www.420magazine.com

Also some of the images below show some burned tips, that might look like underfeeding.

6. Plants training. I usually just clean lower branches and leaves every week until week 3 of flower and then just clean leaves until week 5-6.
I am currently testing a single topping technique that looks promising, some previous tests got me 25 grams, but lets see if I can repeat that. Another thing is leaving more side branches (candles). Still I don't this this will get me too far by itself.

7. High temps 28-29 degrees 84F, is usually the only things that makes plants go crazy, being extremely happy, leaves pointing almost vertical sometimes. I used to grow/flower at these temps and plants looked amazing, however those conditions did not result in some extra yield. Since I grow at lower temps and VPD I basically get the same Yield but much denser and better quality. Plans also look much healthier towards the last 2 weeks.



PICS:

 

[bluter]

i'd say you are doing good. it's not what i'd call an sog though. it's a regular grow.

 

[SmokingWings]

So I am able to make experiments and adjust and test hypothesis all the time. However I reached a limit and I can't figure what to improve next as I feel I am getting average results in terms of yield. (Quality is fine, all dense and crystal buds.) Plants are healthy throughout.

Seven years ago I started growing inside for the fun of it. My first goal was to harvest 1 ounce (28 gram) dry weight minimum per plant under lights using clones growing in an organic mineral soil. Trying different 'things' and it was possible to do.

Letting the plants get a bit larger will help increase final harvest weight. However, you mentioned that the extra time vegetating is out.

Nutrients: Plagron, using the full range of products at about 75% strength. Its a Dutch brand, popular in Europe. Alga - organic line.

Very possible that starting to run the fertilizers at a higher strength getting up closer to 100% of the recommended level will give you the more weight after drying the harvest. The higher doses should help the overall health of the plants resulting in increase bud size, bud weight and an increase in quality.

Customers are willing to pay more for quality than they are for extra weight.

 

[bluter]

Customers are willing to pay more for quality than they are for extra weight.

@SmokingWings has it right there. it's sold by weight so that never factors. in your market potency still has a premium to the retailer and customer.

since it is actually a regular grow there are a few things that could be done.
run fewer plants in bigger buckets for a larger yield on each.
run an actual sog with more plants in smaller buckets and a shorter turn around.

 

[plan500]

@SmokingWings has it right there. it's sold by weight so that never factors. in your market potency still has a premium to the retailer and customer.

since it is actually a regular grow there are a few things that could be done.
run fewer plants in bigger buckets for a larger yield on each.
run an actual sog with more plants in smaller buckets and a shorter turn around.

Please, explain how is SOG different than what I do.

1. Running fewer plants in bigger pots - as the veg time is fixed, I doubt that those plants will be able to use all the excess media. I feel that my pots are a bit large for the plants I run even now.

2. More plants in smaller pots - this would actually make watering and general management hell for me.

I currently grow 300 plants in 3 rooms in a loop so that I harvest every 28 days (4 weeks). I kind of dont want to mess with this model.

 

[bluter]

Please, explain how is SOG different than what I do.

sog is run off mother plants producing hundreds of clones per run, or whatever you can fit.
the buckets are smaller, can be 1 gal or under, in hempy and coco apps they can be 1L and under.
the clones are rooted for 2wks then flipped immediately to flower. you only grow one main branch and get one massive main cola per plant. all side branching is removed.

I currently grow 300 plants in 3 rooms in a loop so that I harvest every 28 days (4 weeks). I kind of dont want to mess with this model.

then stick with what you have which is a regular grow in smaller pots. that is where the choke point is in your production.

 

[bluter]

here is a pic of a small sog

this one is run in solos. the grower has already flipped them. they will finish as one big cola each in the solos.

 

[SmokingWings]

1. Running fewer plants in bigger pots - as the veg time is fixed, I doubt that those plants will be able to use all the excess media. I feel that my pots are a bit large for the plants I run even now.

The amount of time a plant is in the flowering stage is pretty much fixed. Eight weeks minimum and often up to 11, sometimes more, for those who are looking for amber trichomes.

Yet the plants in larger pots of soil tend to stay greener, healthier looking, and produce larger buds with higher quality than the same plants in smaller pots. I figure that the plant has a way of making use of the excess soil media.

 

[bluter]

he's doing great in the size he's using. they look good for plants at the end of flower to me.

 

[Delps8]

I'd recommend that you watch the video "Manipulating Environmental Factors to Improve Cannabis Yield with Mitchell Westmoreland", shown below by Mitch Westmoreland, who is a PhD student under Dr. Bruce Bugbee.

The fact that you can't get your grown environment over 650µmol could be a function of a malfunctioning PAR meter,or the strain that you're growing or it could be an indicator that there's something awry with your grow environment. Until recently, the past few years, the light saturation point for cannabis was considered to be 800-1000µmol. Research published in the "Frontiers" paper, as I call it (attached) and by Bugbee and Westmoreland, indicate that 1000µmol is about the halfway point for cannabis, in ambient CO2.

How are you measuring PAR?

Re. growing lots of small plants = SOG - that's the best way to make sure that all of the photons are used. I believe that's covered in the Westmoreland video.

Re. nutrients - while nutes are a huge topic for growers, it's rarely even discussed in research. Having spent at least hundreds of hours learning about grow lighting over the past three years, I suspect that's because the perspective is that it's, essentially, a non-issue when it comes to crop yield and crop quality. When Wewstmoreland describes the four factors that drive yield, nutrients will be a subset of one of those factors (the ability of cannabis to convert photons into glucose).

In the broader field of agriculture, the goal is nutrient sufficiency and the phrase that's used to describe it is that's what's needed "for a plant to reach its genetic potential".

Interesting comment re VPD and it touches on something for which I haven't found and answer and, as a result, I assume that it falls under the same category as nutrients. My intro to VPD was using a PulseGrow and your numbers are very much in the rage that the good folks at Pulse recommend.
What struck me was your words "Some people grow at 1.2 VPD while others manage to get it up to 1.6. I my experience VPD above 1.4 and temps above 84F, 29 degree in weeks 5-8 have always affected my yield negatively."

The non-specific VPD value in in flower "1.2 to 1.5". That' s broad range and what I took that to mean, initially, was the the pointy headed guys hadn't figured it out (I'm a software engineer with 30+ years experience so I'm used to things being either right or wrong).

But I've come to believe that's not the case. Per nutrient "sufficiency", I looked at the range of VPD and realized "Dumbshit, that is the answer - somewhere in that range!) There's no particular advantage to have a VPD of, say 1.4 vs 1.2. The goal is to set VPD, understanding that it's a proxy for temp + RH, to a level where the plant…"can achieve its genetic potential". VPD is a means to an end so there's no inherent value in "getting" a grow to 1.6.

I think Westmoreland touches on that in the video I've cited. If not, I suspect it's in his recent video that he did with the Future Cannabis Project — similar topic but he adds slightly different comments and data so it's worth watching as well.


Temperature - as we gleaned from the Chandara paper, temperature is a huge driver of photosynthesis. And I, like other growers who want to maximize yield, aimed for ambient temps in the low to mid-80's. Bugbee and Westmoreland confirmed that but, as of a couple of years ago, Westmoreland stated, in his video on hemp, that, paraphrasing, secondary metabolites when in the shitter at temps above 78°. That was the only source of research data that I'd seen so I kept growing at 80°+.

Last year, Bugbee opened the kimono a bit by saying that temperature was the key to secondary metabolites but he didn't go into any detail. As the story has unfolded, I suspect that the reason he did so was that Westmoreland was going to publish that as part of his thesis. The number? Rock and roll in veg but drop temps in flower <=78°. What's not directly addressed is that's the bud temperature, not the ambient temperature. Bubgee alludes to that by saying that buds are very dense and have no/limited (I'm not sure of his exact stance) to throw off heat so they're "at risk" (my words) to overheating.

One thing that's not mentioned is airflow. You have a very dense grow. Have you seen any pattern in yield, based on location? The environment in the midst of your jungle is different than the environment on the edges.

For my most recent grow, I put Govee sensors in the plant. Many of my grows are "Maytag repairman" grows. This one was a Claus von Bulow grow. After inadvertently poisoning my plant by adding far too much H2O2 to the water in my humidifier, I was too hasty in thinning out my plant to avoid bud rot (the entire story is in my latest grow journal). The grow had a modest yield, to be charitable, but it was very helpful in the respect that I was able to use the data from five Govee sensors ($12+ each) in the plant which helped me understand the RH levels in the plant.

That might be a very telling exercise for your grow because of its size. It will take a couple of dozen sensors but if you capture the RH data, you can use Excel's surface chart feature to provide a (limited) 3D picture of RH in the grow. The $12 Govee sensor does report VPD but I couldn't find a place to put in the LST offset. Given that I wasn't concerned with VPD (it was just one small plant, after all) I didn't pursue it. For you, RH could be helpful but VPD could be very revealing.

An alternative is the new Pulse sensor. They've added the PulseZero to their line of products. I bought one pre-release but haven't put it into service yet. My experience with the PulseOne was positive and I expect the Zero could be helpful. It's more expensive than the Govee sensors but, having used the Govee's, I realize that there's a market for both.

The Govee is clearly the cheaper up front cost and, since you're in troubleshooting mode might make more sense.

This is a picture of the PPFD values for my flower light at a hang height of 12". It displays 4 series on the Z axis and the data are very regular so there's no wow factor. If you were to capture data for your grow, it would be far more detailed (you have seven rows of 20? plants) and could be very revealing.

The biggest issue for maximizing yield in a given space is to not let any photons hit the floor and you're taking that step. The next is to tackle the reason why you can't get your grows to even the 800-1000µmol level. As much as it strips away the mystique of getting great yields, what I've seen in my 3, now 3 ½, years of growing is that the data are now available to show, unequivocally, is that the driver is the number of photons hitting the canopy. Of course, the other parts of the grow environment are important, even vital, but they are the supporting cast. Light is the only source of food for a plant ("nutrients" are such a misnomer) and, unless your plant is getting large amounts of photons, it is impossible for the plant to generate energy.

Fun fact - in "the old days", yield estimates were based on the wattage of your HPS light. Per Westmoreland, yield numbers run between 0.2 and 0.3 gm/mol. He discusses the underlying factors but the fact that he states that as part of his PhD thesis is, to me, extremely powerful.


The graphic below shows the 10 parameters of the grow environment. I sounds like you've got most of them covered but I think airflow (2 meters/second — Uni makes an anemometer that sells for $20 on Amazon) and using the Govee to find out what the grow environment like "in the midst of it all" could turn out to be very helpful.

 

[Delps8]

here is a pic of a small sog

this one is run in solos. the grower has already flipped them. they will finish as one big cola each in the solos.

Beautiful!

 

[plan500]

sog is run off mother plants producing hundreds of clones per run, or whatever you can fit.
the buckets are smaller, can be 1 gal or under, in hempy and coco apps they can be 1L and under.
the clones are rooted for 2wks then flipped immediately to flower. you only grow one main branch and get one massive main cola per plant. all side branching is removed.




then stick with what you have which is a regular grow in smaller pots. that is where the choke point is in your production.

Ok, I guess when saying SOG I am referring to the more general concept of "many and smaller plants with no topping". I will take it that what you describe is the most effective SOG method. It is good to know tough.

Basically, changing the pot size will be the least path I am willing to take for many reasons. I know there is room for improvement within this setup, I have managed to get better yields once or twice, so the answer must be in the other variables.

 

[plan500]

here is a pic of a small sog

this one is run in solos. the grower has already flipped them. they will finish as one big cola each in the solos.

This must be the smallest possible pot size for any type of grow. This would only work for me if I bottom water, by flooding the whole table. Which comes with its own disadvantages. I am curious how much more efficient in terms of dry mass would this method be compared with say 3 times bigger pots and 3 times less plants, all other factors the same.

 

[plan500]

The amount of time a plant is in the flowering stage is pretty much fixed. Eight weeks minimum and often up to 11, sometimes more, for those who are looking for amber trichomes.

Yet the plants in larger pots of soil tend to stay greener, healthier looking, and produce larger buds with higher quality than the same plants in smaller pots. I figure that the plant has a way of making use of the excess soil media.

I understand that bigger pots is generally better, but in my case I am looking for a balance between profitability and labor.

 

[plan500]

I'd recommend that you watch the video "Manipulating Environmental Factors to Improve Cannabis Yield with Mitchell Westmoreland", shown below by Mitch Westmoreland, who is a PhD student under Dr. Bruce Bugbee.

The fact that you can't get your grown environment over 650µmol could be a function of a malfunctioning PAR meter,or the strain that you're growing or it could be an indicator that there's something awry with your grow environment. Until recently, the past few years, the light saturation point for cannabis was considered to be 800-1000µmol. Research published in the "Frontiers" paper, as I call it (attached) and by Bugbee and Westmoreland, indicate that 1000µmol is about the halfway point for cannabis, in ambient CO2.

How are you measuring PAR?

Re. growing lots of small plants = SOG - that's the best way to make sure that all of the photons are used. I believe that's covered in the Westmoreland video.

Re. nutrients - while nutes are a huge topic for growers, it's rarely even discussed in research. Having spent at least hundreds of hours learning about grow lighting over the past three years, I suspect that's because the perspective is that it's, essentially, a non-issue when it comes to crop yield and crop quality. When Wewstmoreland describes the four factors that drive yield, nutrients will be a subset of one of those factors (the ability of cannabis to convert photons into glucose).

In the broader field of agriculture, the goal is nutrient sufficiency and the phrase that's used to describe it is that's what's needed "for a plant to reach its genetic potential".

Interesting comment re VPD and it touches on something for which I haven't found and answer and, as a result, I assume that it falls under the same category as nutrients. My intro to VPD was using a PulseGrow and your numbers are very much in the rage that the good folks at Pulse recommend.
What struck me was your words "Some people grow at 1.2 VPD while others manage to get it up to 1.6. I my experience VPD above 1.4 and temps above 84F, 29 degree in weeks 5-8 have always affected my yield negatively."

The non-specific VPD value in in flower "1.2 to 1.5". That' s broad range and what I took that to mean, initially, was the the pointy headed guys hadn't figured it out (I'm a software engineer with 30+ years experience so I'm used to things being either right or wrong).

But I've come to believe that's not the case. Per nutrient "sufficiency", I looked at the range of VPD and realized "Dumbshit, that is the answer - somewhere in that range!) There's no particular advantage to have a VPD of, say 1.4 vs 1.2. The goal is to set VPD, understanding that it's a proxy for temp + RH, to a level where the plant…"can achieve its genetic potential". VPD is a means to an end so there's no inherent value in "getting" a grow to 1.6.

I think Westmoreland touches on that in the video I've cited. If not, I suspect it's in his recent video that he did with the Future Cannabis Project — similar topic but he adds slightly different comments and data so it's worth watching as well.


Temperature - as we gleaned from the Chandara paper, temperature is a huge driver of photosynthesis. And I, like other growers who want to maximize yield, aimed for ambient temps in the low to mid-80's. Bugbee and Westmoreland confirmed that but, as of a couple of years ago, Westmoreland stated, in his video on hemp, that, paraphrasing, secondary metabolites when in the shitter at temps above 78°. That was the only source of research data that I'd seen so I kept growing at 80°+.

Last year, Bugbee opened the kimono a bit by saying that temperature was the key to secondary metabolites but he didn't go into any detail. As the story has unfolded, I suspect that the reason he did so was that Westmoreland was going to publish that as part of his thesis. The number? Rock and roll in veg but drop temps in flower <=78°. What's not directly addressed is that's the bud temperature, not the ambient temperature. Bubgee alludes to that by saying that buds are very dense and have no/limited (I'm not sure of his exact stance) to throw off heat so they're "at risk" (my words) to overheating.

One thing that's not mentioned is airflow. You have a very dense grow. Have you seen any pattern in yield, based on location? The environment in the midst of your jungle is different than the environment on the edges.

For my most recent grow, I put Govee sensors in the plant. Many of my grows are "Maytag repairman" grows. This one was a Claus von Bulow grow. After inadvertently poisoning my plant by adding far too much H2O2 to the water in my humidifier, I was too hasty in thinning out my plant to avoid bud rot (the entire story is in my latest grow journal). The grow had a modest yield, to be charitable, but it was very helpful in the respect that I was able to use the data from five Govee sensors ($12+ each) in the plant which helped me understand the RH levels in the plant.

That might be a very telling exercise for your grow because of its size. It will take a couple of dozen sensors but if you capture the RH data, you can use Excel's surface chart feature to provide a (limited) 3D picture of RH in the grow. The $12 Govee sensor does report VPD but I couldn't find a place to put in the LST offset. Given that I wasn't concerned with VPD (it was just one small plant, after all) I didn't pursue it. For you, RH could be helpful but VPD could be very revealing.

An alternative is the new Pulse sensor. They've added the PulseZero to their line of products. I bought one pre-release but haven't put it into service yet. My experience with the PulseOne was positive and I expect the Zero could be helpful. It's more expensive than the Govee sensors but, having used the Govee's, I realize that there's a market for both.

The Govee is clearly the cheaper up front cost and, since you're in troubleshooting mode might make more sense.

This is a picture of the PPFD values for my flower light at a hang height of 12". It displays 4 series on the Z axis and the data are very regular so there's no wow factor. If you were to capture data for your grow, it would be far more detailed (you have seven rows of 20? plants) and could be very revealing.

The biggest issue for maximizing yield in a given space is to not let any photons hit the floor and you're taking that step. The next is to tackle the reason why you can't get your grows to even the 800-1000µmol level. As much as it strips away the mystique of getting great yields, what I've seen in my 3, now 3 ½, years of growing is that the data are now available to show, unequivocally, is that the driver is the number of photons hitting the canopy. Of course, the other parts of the grow environment are important, even vital, but they are the supporting cast. Light is the only source of food for a plant ("nutrients" are such a misnomer) and, unless your plant is getting large amounts of photons, it is impossible for the plant to generate energy.

Fun fact - in "the old days", yield estimates were based on the wattage of your HPS light. Per Westmoreland, yield numbers run between 0.2 and 0.3 gm/mol. He discusses the underlying factors but the fact that he states that as part of his PhD thesis is, to me, extremely powerful.


The graphic below shows the 10 parameters of the grow environment. I sounds like you've got most of them covered but I think airflow (2 meters/second — Uni makes an anemometer that sells for $20 on Amazon) and using the Govee to find out what the grow environment like "in the midst of it all" could turn out to be very helpful.

Thank you for the info and your time!

I will watch the video and comment in a separate reply.

Here are some comments based on your post.

LIGHT
I use an expensive apogee extended range PAR meter $600+ and I have two of them, also I can easily see the ration between watts and PPFD, so faulty meter is not an option.

If the same result could be achieved with 500ppfd instead of 1000ppfd, why would anyone bother to push it that high."

What you are saying about the 800-1000ppfd range is the most apparent factor that holds potential for improvement. I am currently running a test (still early stage) where plants under one light will get 150ppfd and 150ppm more then the rest. Will measure and compare dry weight at the end. This is the only way to find out for sure.

Could it be that plants with shorter veg, say 2-4 weeks can't take 1000ppfd later in flowering due to lack of sufficient root structure and general strength? That is the only things that can justify my results. If that is not the case, and I hope someone here can tell me from experience, then I should look for the reason in the other factors.

Btw, I am running CO2 regardless of the low PPFD levels. I run 800-1200, just in case. Hope it does not hurt the plants. I also get levels of up to 2200 before light on ... c02 accumulates at night. From what I've read it is normal and not dangerous for the plants.

I did not understand the PPFD diagram you attached with your canopy ppfd map. It suggest that you ware growing at 1000-2000ppfd on average. Am I getting something wrong? Can you share what PPFDs you use in Veg and Flower for each week.


NUTRIENTS
I will only say that I have made lots of experiments and think that I have a balanced feed chart, based on my current setup. There are no deficiencies or toxicities with the 90%+ of plants so I take it this is not something to mess with.
However, If I increase the light then I should also increase the nutrients. That's straight logic.


TEMPS and VPD
The straight logic behind higher VPD is that with higher vapor deficit you force the plants to transpire and consequently transport nutrients faster/more. In my experience VPD of 1.3-1.4 makes my plants look pretty beat up a week prior to cutting them, while a VPD of 1.1-1.2 keeps them much greener and eventually makes buds denser as a result of plants not being stressed.

I believe VPD is the same as light, if you can dial everything well enough you might be able to get the benefits from high Light, VPD, ppms, temps ect.

"Rock and roll in veg but drop temps in flower <=78°. " - this is something I am willing to try. Stress plays a major role in flowering, so it makes sense to go lower.


AIRFLOW

I have 4x 70w fans covering an area of 20 m2, (215 ft2). I haven't seen a notable pattern. If that was a big factor it would be obvious.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------


I think we can conclude that I have to get the light up and adjust everything else accordingly which might be down to:

- Higher ppms (I am currently at 75% strength of maximum recommended from manufacturer.)
- Mild VPD under 1.2
- Slightly colder temps in flowering

And also a strong start and veg, so to have strong plants when the time comes to hit them with high PPFD.


Let me know what you think.

 

[bluter]

I am curious how much more efficient in terms of dry mass would this method be compared with say 3 times bigger pots and 3 times less plants, all other factors the same.

a few things hold true when managed correct and only correct :

topping alone doesn't always produce better than leaving it alone.
any training method will do above any non training method, especially combined with topping.
scrog does better than a natural grow or topping alone.
sog does better than scrog.
no matter what method there is a canopy limit. your space will only do so much.
scrog and sog will reach max canopy limit better than other methods.
scrog and sog are much harder to achieve in commercial grows. those are better managed by time, similar to what you are already doing.
commercial grows rarely achieve canopy limit.

 

[plan500]

I wish he was more specific about everything.

The point he made that VPD is just pushing the plant to transpire but not necessarily to grow was interesting and in support for a more mild VPD around 1.2.

Most valuable info was on light and temp and this is where I will focus my research and tests.