Manchester2020
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Can anyone help me please
Fools Rush In: Newbie's Adventures In Suboptimal Conditions
- Thread starter syenite
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What’s up?
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- #263
syenite
Well-Known Member
What prick made this mix??
Control - potting mix straight out of bag, watered
Experiment - top dressed with 2 teaspoons of dolomite lime, watered to 10-20% run-off
Control - potting mix straight out of bag, watered
Experiment - top dressed with 2 teaspoons of dolomite lime, watered to 10-20% run-off
curls2cute
Well-Known Member
I'm posting my pics now from repotting. I hope my weedbaby pulls through. It looks like a palm tree . How long will it take to hopefully bounce back? Or is it a lost cause? I'm bumming....big time.... 
That’s hard case.What prick made this mix??
Control - potting mix straight out of bag, watered
Experiment - top dressed with 2 teaspoons of dolomite lime, watered to 10-20% run-off
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- #266
syenite
Well-Known Member
That’s hard case.
IKR.
I did a second experiment with mix straight from the bag. I fertigated it with my usual feed.
It looks like my nute solution actually raises the mix's pH from approximately 4.5 to 5.3.
Lol ??
Gonna assume that when I check in a few hours, or tomorrow, the potting mix pH will've dropped back down to the 4 range.
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- #267
syenite
Well-Known Member
Do any of you remember Bamboogate?
Well. I did something.
I felt I had enough information to act.
This is what I was dealing with. I did take averages but y'all don't need to see a bunch of 3mb photos of the pH pen. I had potting mix coming in largely between 4.5 - 5.5 pH with feeding, and in the low 4s without.
Before
I top-dressed one of the plants with two teaspoons of dolomite lime.
After
I hope I did the right thing!
Well, I guess this is why I have a backup box and backup plants!
It DOES feel a lot like the time I decided to stab my seedling's root zone with a bamboo skewer LOL. But at least that worked. I hope this works out too.
I did something. Possibly ill-advised. Remembered some discussions about "root-coring", so I poked a few holes straight down through the original root ball. Partly to provide some air channels and partly to break up the peat pellet. We'll see what happens.
Honestly I'm feeling pretty reckless about this little one. Maybe because I need a reason to boot a plant out eventually
Well. I did something.
I felt I had enough information to act.
This is what I was dealing with. I did take averages but y'all don't need to see a bunch of 3mb photos of the pH pen. I had potting mix coming in largely between 4.5 - 5.5 pH with feeding, and in the low 4s without.
Before
I top-dressed one of the plants with two teaspoons of dolomite lime.
After
I hope I did the right thing!
Well, I guess this is why I have a backup box and backup plants!
It DOES feel a lot like the time I decided to stab my seedling's root zone with a bamboo skewer LOL. But at least that worked. I hope this works out too.
Fingers crossed, mate.
My first thought was the soil pH is your issue. The steps I use for testing soil pH are as follows and you may be doing it a very similar way.
SLURRY SOIL PH TEST
The slurry test is the most accurate test you can do without actually buying a specialized pH meter for measuring soil pH, your standard pH meter will do fine. Don’t forget to calibrate your meter first, and to clean it properly afterwards. This is what you’ll need for the test:
– Distilled (or reverse osmosis water)
– Soil samples
– Standard pH meter
– Containers for holding soil samples
– Kitchen scale
And this is how it works:
1. Start by taking soil samples at various points in your garden. You should take the soil samples from the same depth every time. Measuring the samples separately will always give you a clearer view of the pH at different points in your garden. But, if you have a very small garden you could also mix your soil samples together in equal parts.
2. Add 1-1,5ml of distilled water for every gram of soil. So, if you have 50 grams of soil, add 50-75ml of distilled water.
3. Stir for a few seconds and then let it sit for at least an hour.
4. Stir again and stick in your pH meter. The value you read will not be 100% accurate, but it will give you a clear indication of where your pH is at.
If your soil has a buffering agent in it such as humus or lime then chances are you never have to pH your nutes. The pH in the media changes with the akalinity of the water. The higher the akalinity the faster the pH rises in the soil. Based on your results your soil may not have this so you'll need to pH your nutes accordingly from 6.2 - 6.5.
Careful adding lime. I use 1tsp of dolomitic lime in a 5gal pot mixed in when I reuse my media.
Manchester2020
Well-Known Member
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Manchester2020
Well-Known Member
They have changes a little over a week but I dint know what I'm doing wrong there just not growing
Hi there, Manchester2020.
1st of all
to
I don’t even need to see the true colour of your leaves to see the distress going on. Single and three fingered leaves are usually a wee cry for help.
This is exactly how I first got involved here. I had three small plants that just wouldn’t die. Or thrive. Lucky for us it’s so hardy!
You can help us to help you troubleshoot by measuring a couple of things.
Two bits of kit I think you need are an infrared thermometer gun thingy for about twelve bucks somewhere and a hygrometer - something to tell you the RH of the garden.
Tap the VPD link below and have a read. Archie explains it well. If you can get your leaves working (transpiring) then you can get the roots going. There is no point messing any more with watering with this and that until you know the leaves work.
If your leaves are working then your roots are in trouble, but start with your VPD it is too easy. So easy it is often overlooked.
Have a read. Take some measurements if you can, then let us know what you see.
Photos in natural light next time please.
We’ll help you turn that into a respectable harvest.
Manchester2020
Well-Known Member
I currently have a hygrometer what is your recommended conditionsHi there, Manchester2020.
1st of all
I don’t even need to see the true colour of your leaves to see the distress going on. Single and three fingered leaves are usually a wee cry for help.
This is exactly how I first got involved here. I had three small plants that just wouldn’t die. Or thrive. Lucky for us it’s so hardy!
You can help us to help you troubleshoot by measuring a couple of things.
Two bits of kit I think you need are an infrared thermometer gun thingy for about twelve bucks somewhere and a hygrometer - something to tell you the RH of the garden.
Tap the VPD link below and have a read. Archie explains it well. If you can get your leaves working (transpiring) then you can get the roots going. There is no point messing any more with watering with this and that until you know the leaves work.
If your leaves are working then your roots are in trouble, but start with your VPD it is too easy. So easy it is often overlooked.
Have a read. Take some measurements if you can, then let us know what you see.
Photos in natural light next time please.
We’ll help you turn that into a respectable harvest.
Not mine. Archie’s. Did you read the thread on the other side of the VPD link in my signature? Bottom left.
You are aiming for the middle of the chart.
The conditions are variable. You are about to discover what the R in RH means (and how to get leaves working) because the optimal humidity depending on the stage of the life cycle depends to a certain point on the temperate as well.
There is a chart over there to make it visually easy. The chart works when the leaf temperature at the canopy is 2* lower than in the room. Hence the need for the twelve dollar wotsit. You’ll see.
What does your meter tell you is happening in the room?
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- #276
syenite
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the support, everyone!
While I'm confident about my diagnosis, I think my treatment was a bit reckless.
Thank you MrS! Great to hear your opinion on the issue. I actually have a soil slurry test kit separate to my soil pH pen - it's an analog test involving a colour map. These tests also showed acidity in the 4-5 range.
I wish I'd known about your way of doing the slurry test - I could've used my "regular" pH pen - before dropping cash on the Bluelab soil pen. But all ok. Great to know about it, nonetheless.
Dolomite lime?
In addition to MrS' caution, I also found a more critical reading on applying dolomite lime right after I added it to the soil, lol.
I was wrong about the availability of the minerals in it. The calcium and magnesium are pretty damn available. So now the plant may end up with way too much of those. Serves me right for not taking my own advice, and rushing a solution!
Still, I'm very interested to see how this pans out. If necessary, I will re-pot the plant with the new mix.
All of this still begs the question, how do you correct the pH in a soil/potting mix?
Dolomite lime is the most commonly prescribed solution.
Maybe the real answer is that you shouldn't, unless you're a soil scientist? Just buy a new mix? Lol
Anyway... here's a look at the other two plants that I haven't messed with, waiting in the wings.
Maybe one of them spiked Orange's drink when I wasn't looking, in an insidious attempt to move up the social hierarchy and replace Orange in the bloom box?
While I'm confident about my diagnosis, I think my treatment was a bit reckless.
Thank you MrS! Great to hear your opinion on the issue. I actually have a soil slurry test kit separate to my soil pH pen - it's an analog test involving a colour map. These tests also showed acidity in the 4-5 range.
I wish I'd known about your way of doing the slurry test - I could've used my "regular" pH pen - before dropping cash on the Bluelab soil pen. But all ok. Great to know about it, nonetheless.
Dolomite lime?
In addition to MrS' caution, I also found a more critical reading on applying dolomite lime right after I added it to the soil, lol.
I was wrong about the availability of the minerals in it. The calcium and magnesium are pretty damn available. So now the plant may end up with way too much of those. Serves me right for not taking my own advice, and rushing a solution!
Still, I'm very interested to see how this pans out. If necessary, I will re-pot the plant with the new mix.
All of this still begs the question, how do you correct the pH in a soil/potting mix?
Dolomite lime is the most commonly prescribed solution.
Maybe the real answer is that you shouldn't, unless you're a soil scientist? Just buy a new mix? Lol
Anyway... here's a look at the other two plants that I haven't messed with, waiting in the wings.
Maybe one of them spiked Orange's drink when I wasn't looking, in an insidious attempt to move up the social hierarchy and replace Orange in the bloom box?
Makes sense now - that low a pH will cause K def, Mg def, B tox, Cu tox, etc. Pretty shitty to sell something like that.
Ahhh - a sad face! Now I need to edit my post! lol
Lime typically increases pH and Sulfur lowers it. Here's an article to read if you're interested.
Changing Soil pH, Soil pH Adjustment, Lowering Soil pH
Changing soil pH can improve plant performance. Lowering soil pH increases yields and improves flavor for plants like tomatoes. Raising soil pH improves performance of spinach and leafy vegetables.
www.grow-it-organically.com
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- #280
syenite
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that. A good read for sure. I know in general how these things work, hence my application of lime. But specifically, I was wondering why dolomite lime is so widely prescribed when it can cause serious magnesium excesses.
The article you shared also highlights this:
[Dolomite lime]’s used by both organic and conventional farmers, but should Not be used in soils with adequate or excess magnesium.
Plants need magnesium in small amounts, and excess magnesium stunts and kills vegetables. Where a soil test indicates adequate or high magnesium levels, use an alternate calcium source for changing soil pH.
So after a bit more digging, it seems that calcite lime is a safer option, with a better calcium to magnesium ratio, with 40% calcium carbonate and 2% magnesium carbonate.
Dolomite lime, on the other hand, has up to 11% magnesium carbonate. And this is the danger that I'm currently facing.
A little frustrating when the most conventional/agreed-upon solution is not necessarily a good one! And I did not see any warnings about excesses caused by dolomite in any of my initial readings. Sigh.
Playing this game on hard mode, it seems!
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