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- #281
syenite
Well-Known Member
Don't worry Felipe - I'm just glad you didn't say, "I told you to start with hempy!"
Fools Rush In: Newbie's Adventures In Suboptimal Conditions
- Thread starter syenite
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Don't worry Felipe - I'm just glad you didn't say, "I told you to start with hempy!"
Honestly I wouldn't try changing the pH with the plants in it. The dolomite is typically added or mixed in with the media then watered in. A soil test from a lab will give you an exact breakdown on the elements in your soil and also the recommended values or optimum values.
Instead I would just pH your nuted water accordingly and treat it like a coco or non buffered media.
I would just buy some good mix.
Or go hempy!
Or go hempy!
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- #284
syenite
Well-Known Member
Yup. I think in future, if I were to encounter this again, the first step would be raising the pH of the nute solution to try to compensate for the low pH in the soil.
If that were to fail, I honestly think buying a new, more reliable mix/brand would save time, money and tears, rather than trying to fight the mix's pH.
Like you say - it takes a lot more information and resources to "fix" a mix properly. Not some guy at home in a dressing gown on Google going ham...
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- #285
syenite
Well-Known Member
Canna Terra is a good product. Just make sure you spend some time at their website. Lots of little tips like this one.
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- #287
syenite
Well-Known Member
Canna Terra is a good product. Just make sure you spend some time at their website. Lots of little tips like this one.
Hoooooooo. Now that's something I'm glad not to miss.
Thank you. I will take my time going through the FAQ etc. Especially because I'm using their Bio nutes too.
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- #288
syenite
Well-Known Member
WOw. I just had a really effing cool conversation with one of the Canna reps at their Australian office. Shaun. Sean? He was very patient and generous!
(N.B. I have no incentive to promote Canna or their products. This conversation was mostly about pH and soil science, and not brand-specific!)
It's happening again. NERD TIME!
He told me a couple of things that was really interesting with regards to yesterday's "situation". Also confirmed a lot of what @MrSauga and I discussed. Here's my dumbed-down paraphrase of the convo:
1. Here in New Zealand our peat isn't great (can't remember if he meant the quality of the peat in the earth or the industry's methods)
2. New Zealand does not seem to have the same kind of QC and regulations for peat mixes, hence why I could buy a peat mix that has a 4-4.5 pH
3. Lousy peat mixes survive in the market because most people are growing plants and crops that aren't as fast-growing or demanding as our blessed plant, and so no one notices
4. Treating with dolomite lime is ok..... if you have a lab and a lot of time. You need to know how much magnesium and calcium is already in your substrate. You need to know how the lime affects the pH over a long period of time. You need to know how the pH could drift over that period of time in combination with fertilisers etc.
So... don't fuck with cheap potting mixes for your grows, fam! And don't bother fighting your cheap potting mix either, whether by trying to change its pH or by trying to compensate by changing the pH of your solution. I'm going to let my GF use the rest of the mix up for the house plants etc.
(EDIT: I learnt some stuff about Canna Terra Pro but I moved the summary to this topic thread.)
Honestly y'all I had such a good time talking to him about all this stuff LOL.
(N.B. I have no incentive to promote Canna or their products. This conversation was mostly about pH and soil science, and not brand-specific!)
It's happening again. NERD TIME!
He told me a couple of things that was really interesting with regards to yesterday's "situation". Also confirmed a lot of what @MrSauga and I discussed. Here's my dumbed-down paraphrase of the convo:
1. Here in New Zealand our peat isn't great (can't remember if he meant the quality of the peat in the earth or the industry's methods)
2. New Zealand does not seem to have the same kind of QC and regulations for peat mixes, hence why I could buy a peat mix that has a 4-4.5 pH
3. Lousy peat mixes survive in the market because most people are growing plants and crops that aren't as fast-growing or demanding as our blessed plant, and so no one notices
4. Treating with dolomite lime is ok..... if you have a lab and a lot of time. You need to know how much magnesium and calcium is already in your substrate. You need to know how the lime affects the pH over a long period of time. You need to know how the pH could drift over that period of time in combination with fertilisers etc.
So... don't fuck with cheap potting mixes for your grows, fam! And don't bother fighting your cheap potting mix either, whether by trying to change its pH or by trying to compensate by changing the pH of your solution. I'm going to let my GF use the rest of the mix up for the house plants etc.
(EDIT: I learnt some stuff about Canna Terra Pro but I moved the summary to this topic thread.)
Honestly y'all I had such a good time talking to him about all this stuff LOL.
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- #289
syenite
Well-Known Member
New mix arrived today!
(I'm also reintroducing the plants with their names, as each one is now easily distinguishable.)
I was forced to allow our former prima ballerina, Baggy, to retire to the green room. Currently she's still in the old mix with the lime. I'm not quite sure what to do because her root ball is solid and I'm not sure I feel like pulling it apart. But it may be worse to leave her in the old stuff! I'll have a wee think.
Meanwhile, in her place, our precocious lieutenant, Desert, was transplanted into the Canna Terra Pro mix, and a new 1.75 gallon fabric pot.
Let's hope Desert can handle the pressure of being the lead soloist!! I'll top her tomorrow after she's had a chance to settle into her new environment.
(I'm also reintroducing the plants with their names, as each one is now easily distinguishable.)
I was forced to allow our former prima ballerina, Baggy, to retire to the green room. Currently she's still in the old mix with the lime. I'm not quite sure what to do because her root ball is solid and I'm not sure I feel like pulling it apart. But it may be worse to leave her in the old stuff! I'll have a wee think.
Meanwhile, in her place, our precocious lieutenant, Desert, was transplanted into the Canna Terra Pro mix, and a new 1.75 gallon fabric pot.
Let's hope Desert can handle the pressure of being the lead soloist!! I'll top her tomorrow after she's had a chance to settle into her new environment.
Looking ace, mate. That cab should fill up fast now.
That's interesting about the peat and the pH. I saw a question the other day, about soil to buy. And someone had replied saying the bags of stuff you buy are more accurately described as potting mix, that soil is mother earth. Which with all the living biology is presumably going to be closer to a pH sweet spot than 4-4.5 from a lot of peat. So good point.
I am looking forward to seeing how you progress with the espalier training, it should be fine, just stay on top of the training I guess. With your side lighting the idea of it is great. Good stuff!
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- #292
syenite
Well-Known Member
Looking ace, mate. That cab should fill up fast now.
Cheers DD! Can't wait for the plant to starting sending roots into the new mix. It's so light and fluffy, like you said! The guy was telling me that there's actually coco in it too.
That's interesting about the peat and the pH. I saw a question the other day, about soil to buy. And someone had replied saying the bags of stuff you buy are more accurately described as potting mix, that soil is mother earth. Which with all the living biology is presumably going to be closer to a pH sweet spot than 4-4.5 from a lot of peat. So good point.
I am looking forward to seeing how you progress with the espalier training, it should be fine, just stay on top of the training I guess. With your side lighting the idea of it is great. Good stuff!
Yeah there don't seem to be very good regulations governing what those products are called. And when container growers refer to soil they typically mean some kind of peat-based mix. Often these mixes are amended with lime to balance out the peat's acidity. Clearly the one I got could've used a bit more! Unfortunately calibrating the mix properly etc. can be too much to ask of a home grower, and is something the business and industry regulations should be ensuring to some degree.
Thanks Stunger! I am really excited about getting the LST side of things started next. Right after topping.
CraCraCarl11
Well-Known Member
Sorry haven't read everything been overwhelmed as you know my friend. Grow looks great I must say mutant maybe too much water? I know def not expert now so take my opinion as a fine grain of salt
. Anyway silverfish or ad I call em pincher bugs/earwigs are normally harmless. Then I discovered 1 on top of a plant at 4am one morning making me go wtf! It was def not there for a comfy nap. I did in depth research as I new pests were a problem. Turns out they normally help and eat aphids and decaying material. Yet some if they take a liking to a plant will munch on it. I'm certain of this as I personally say it happen. They live moisture and decaying plant matter. Some gardners leave an to help with aphids but the love some leafy plants so much they do become an issue. Neem oil helps keep em off a spray a day b4 lights out helps a lot. Don't spray too soon b4 lights out may burn the leaves trust me I know. Just keep any old debri outta grow space after spraying and all is fine. Way to check if issue wait till lights out in grow area. They hate light so a few hours after lights out check it out. Don't turn the lights on just slowly open it up and with a flashlight check. If you see an in soil or worst roosting on plants then squish em.Also that's a just in case they are an issue. I gotta go back and read several pages of I'm sure in depth info just saw u mention em on this page. Just wanted to let you know I learned if they munch something and like they will go back and munch again. Turns out like I said gardners of other crops are torn to kill em off or keep em. Indoors ur fine can get em quick and aphids are less a issue so less reason to keep em around. Outdoors in humid conditions differ situation.
I hope info helped I try to when I can. I hope I don't go back a page and nothing about pincher bugs. But I got an kill em off cause honestly I hate most bugs now. Plus silverfish as I call em are ugly and useless. Also not endangered at all I got dozens in my yard. So save the bees screw the rest!
CraCraCarl11
Well-Known Member
Also not trying make you paranoid especially I didn't read everything. Just say silverfish googled it and said to myself owe you mean pinchers. Again normally not a huge issue but can be a small 1. They had neem oil you can get for about $6 at many stores. Since indoor just get rid of em. Bombing tent in using to grow Monday as a just in case. Saw a few scurry around so always better to be cautious.
But looking good bro I'm happy for u. I hope I can do better next grow. Def be more of a MacGyver set up then yours but hey something better then nothing
But looking good bro I'm happy for u. I hope I can do better next grow. Def be more of a MacGyver set up then yours but hey something better then nothing
CraCraCarl11
Well-Known Member
Also just general science a plant creates glucose aka sugar aka starch. So if a bug eats it and can't get any from any other means they will go for best source. Just saying cause looked again at pic comparing to my issue and maybe dif. Still remember glucose equals sugar equals starch. Any bug in any grow room should die except worms brow. I kill no hesitation except bees. Just cause they are damn near endangered. I don't like bees been stung ain't fun but they have a huge purpose. Silverfish, pinchers whatever just kill em. Unless a worm ain't helping a thing. Also I know bees don't help mj but the do with a lot of important plants. So people please don't freak and kill em. Yea a sting hurts but we as a world needs em. Bees matter
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- #296
syenite
Well-Known Member
Hey @CraCraCarl11 nice to have you back!
Thankfully I've had no pest problems here. That was something Felipe mentioned with respect to his grow. Not actually sure what's happened with that, but judging by the great pics in his journal it can't be causing too much trouble!
Amending the mix with neem granules and diatomaceous earth has seemed a good prevention pattern so far. At the same time, it's also winter here so that's probably helping too!
Thankfully I've had no pest problems here. That was something Felipe mentioned with respect to his grow. Not actually sure what's happened with that, but judging by the great pics in his journal it can't be causing too much trouble!
Amending the mix with neem granules and diatomaceous earth has seemed a good prevention pattern so far. At the same time, it's also winter here so that's probably helping too!
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- #297
syenite
Well-Known Member
Part 1: Baggy
Baggy (the dethroned one) was looking like absolute hell when I woke up this morning. Rapidly yellowing bottom leaves, brown spots on the lower and middle leaves.
So I decided it was time for another intervention, and did what I set out to do yesterday.
I hoped to be able to massage as much of the crap mix off as possible. But that was not very much. She had a solid root ball, like the others. I resorted to cutting away an inch around the sides, as one would when a plant is either rootbound or a bonsai/mother of sorts. To me, Baggy was going to die in that old mix, so I thought this to be my final escalation.
I pretreated the new mix with some Rhizotonic, and packed her newly trimmed rootball into it. We'll see what happens! Whether she makes it, this will be very interesting. This is as hard a "reset" as I could imagine.
I also topped her because I didn't want her to focus on any new top growth, which is unnecessary at this point as she has her 7th node. Just stay alive, please!
Here she is looking dejected at the back of the green room. And also a peek at Eponym who's tearing at the gates to take the top spot.
Baggy (the dethroned one) was looking like absolute hell when I woke up this morning. Rapidly yellowing bottom leaves, brown spots on the lower and middle leaves.
So I decided it was time for another intervention, and did what I set out to do yesterday.
I hoped to be able to massage as much of the crap mix off as possible. But that was not very much. She had a solid root ball, like the others. I resorted to cutting away an inch around the sides, as one would when a plant is either rootbound or a bonsai/mother of sorts. To me, Baggy was going to die in that old mix, so I thought this to be my final escalation.
I pretreated the new mix with some Rhizotonic, and packed her newly trimmed rootball into it. We'll see what happens! Whether she makes it, this will be very interesting. This is as hard a "reset" as I could imagine.
I also topped her because I didn't want her to focus on any new top growth, which is unnecessary at this point as she has her 7th node. Just stay alive, please!
Here she is looking dejected at the back of the green room. And also a peek at Eponym who's tearing at the gates to take the top spot.
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- #298
syenite
Well-Known Member
Part 2: Desert
When I first looked in on our new star today, I noticed immediately that the newest growth looked droopy, and worse, tacoed. From being splayed out and uplifted yesterday, to tacoing and droopy this morning. I know this wasn't the "waking" droop as the lights had been going for a few hours by the time I got up to check on her.
Not the best angle to see it from, but here:
One big difference between the backup box and the cabinet is the light intensity. With the cabinet, I've been testing to see if I can find the limit. And now I think I have. It may also partly account for why Baggy struggled. If she had been having pH and lockout issues, the light intensity and accelerated food production and growth would have further compounded those issues.
The solution was simple. Dim the lights until Desert was getting the same lux range as she was in the backup box. As a note for myself, I dimmed the lights from "30-35k lux" to "20-25k lux". Quote marks because I'm using it as a relative, internal measure for myself, and because I don't think those numbers should be confused for a good objective measure of how much usable light the plant is getting.
It was also time to top her! I left some stem because I want to test the theory/myth that leaving a bit of stem encourages a bigger/stronger knuckle.
A few hours after topping her and dimming the lights, there was a lift to her top leaves again, and the tacoing seemed less severe.
SaugaView
Cabinet shot - I also reduced the incline of the second-highest panel to account for the change in height of the plant now it's in the 2gal. There is still the highest panel beaming down directly from above.
So, all seems well for Baggy!
I think having the mentality of, "I want to give them as much light as they can handle!" is not a good one. Much safer to tend the other way, and give them "less" light until there are signs of unwanted stretch.
The growth tips on her lowest node are starting to develop significantly, so some LST will be introduced soon.
Hope everyone's well and having a good end to the week!
When I first looked in on our new star today, I noticed immediately that the newest growth looked droopy, and worse, tacoed. From being splayed out and uplifted yesterday, to tacoing and droopy this morning. I know this wasn't the "waking" droop as the lights had been going for a few hours by the time I got up to check on her.
Not the best angle to see it from, but here:
One big difference between the backup box and the cabinet is the light intensity. With the cabinet, I've been testing to see if I can find the limit. And now I think I have. It may also partly account for why Baggy struggled. If she had been having pH and lockout issues, the light intensity and accelerated food production and growth would have further compounded those issues.
The solution was simple. Dim the lights until Desert was getting the same lux range as she was in the backup box. As a note for myself, I dimmed the lights from "30-35k lux" to "20-25k lux". Quote marks because I'm using it as a relative, internal measure for myself, and because I don't think those numbers should be confused for a good objective measure of how much usable light the plant is getting.
It was also time to top her! I left some stem because I want to test the theory/myth that leaving a bit of stem encourages a bigger/stronger knuckle.
A few hours after topping her and dimming the lights, there was a lift to her top leaves again, and the tacoing seemed less severe.
SaugaView
Cabinet shot - I also reduced the incline of the second-highest panel to account for the change in height of the plant now it's in the 2gal. There is still the highest panel beaming down directly from above.
So, all seems well for Baggy!
I think having the mentality of, "I want to give them as much light as they can handle!" is not a good one. Much safer to tend the other way, and give them "less" light until there are signs of unwanted stretch.
The growth tips on her lowest node are starting to develop significantly, so some LST will be introduced soon.
Hope everyone's well and having a good end to the week!
The other benefit to leaving a longer stem when topping is it helps prevent the branch from splitting. Too short and with the weight of the buds the plant will risk snapping at that point.
I think she's just stressed from the transplant. Give her a couple of days to rest.
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- #300
syenite
Well-Known Member
Thank you Mr S! Good tip on the stem - I'll remember that.
And yes, I agree. I feel this has been a period of fussing over them, some of it necessary, some of it not! I should leave them be for a bit. Not a lot I have to do for now anyway.
I will simply try to enjoy the privilege I have of raising and taking care of little living beings.
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