Grow five, same problem every grow

[JiggiLotus]

Hydroponics and synthetic substrate sound complex and stressful. I thought we were supposed to be stress training plants not the plants stress training us.

 

[JiggiLotus]

Your coir has not been treated and buffered properly. Increase your feeding frequency til you reach 0.3 EC above your input on your runoff water. It will eventually settle but needs time to settle if it hasn't been treated before use.

Your biggest problem is you're treating a hydro/coir grown plant like a soil grown plant. Currently you're creating a medium that goes from having correct pH and EC to crash within 48 hours. Coir and hydro needs constant replenishment and needs to be fed several times a day to flourish.

Hope that helps, Cheers!

True. Coco core you gotta water it all the time. I mix it into my potting soil to keep my soil from saturating. If I plant anything in it just Coco...Death.

 

[SmokingWings]

Soil Fox Farm Coco Loco

Fox Farm is using several types of compost mixed with finely shredded Coco Coir and some Perlite. The Coco Coir is a replacement for the Peat Moss used in the more traditional potting soil mixes. Growers have talking about making these sorts of mixes for years as a way to avoid over-harvesting the remaining peat bogs. And as a way to use the piles and piles of discarded coco hulls found in areas that grow or produce coconuts instead of letting the stuff decompose which can take 5 to 20 years.

The company uses/mixes in dolomite lime and oyster shells to buffer the pH levels. When the mix is ready they ship it with a pH of 6.3 to 6.8 so basically it is all set to go as the traditional soil base mix it is.

Thinking about it, if the company mixed all those various composts with Peat Moss no one would be mentioning trying to treat is as a hydroponic growing medium and jumping through hoops trying to change the medium's pH levels. All of this and more is on the companies web page for Coco Loco. Any questions then call or eMail them for explantions. They are friendly and will pick up the phone if calling during normal business hours (California time) or respond quickly to eMail.

Temps 72 RH 50

Is this plant being grown in a tent or some sort of closet or cabinet? If so it should be easy to bring the temperatures up to help the plant grow better.

Or is it in a room in the house like a bedroom or unused room? If it is in the corner of a room then the whole room has to be heated which takes a bit more planning and effort and a room at 82F can be uncomfortable even in the winter, especially if it is being used as a bedroom.

Dyna Grow Foliage Pro, Bloom, Protekt, Cal Mag

As mentioned, mix and feed at the recommended dose.

The problem started on middle fan leaf edges and is progressing to the tips, a brown rust color. Lower leaves show slight brown, and a few of the sugar leaves are starting to brown as well, mainly middle fan leafs though.

Classic signs of low Calcium. Shows up a lot on indoor grows with LED lights. Use the amounts recommended by the company making your Calcium supplement. The damage on the leaves is there and will not go away but once the plant finds the Calcium it needs there will be no new copper brown colored spots showing up and none showing on new leaves.

... few of the sugar leaves are starting to brown as well, mainly middle fan leafs though.

Do you mean the center fingers on the fan leaves. Fan leaves usually have 3, 5, 7 and sometimes 9 fingers growing off of a single stem. Seems to me that having the bronze or copper color start to show on the middle finger was pretty usual until I started using a Calcium product on a regular basis.

Or do you mean the the problem is starting to show on the fan leaves that are more in the center or the plant. Some problems can start to show near the bottom of the plant, the middle or near the top. So, if the problem is starting in the middle area it could be an indication that something else might be happening at the same time.

It should not be hard to get your grow back on track. Have fun and enjoy your growing adventure.

 

[Wastei]

Fox Farm is using several types of compost mixed with finely shredded Coco Coir and some Perlite. The Coco Coir is a replacement for the Peat Moss used in the more traditional potting soil mixes. Growers have talking about making these sorts of mixes for years as a way to avoid over-harvesting the remaining peat bogs. And as a way to use the piles and piles of discarded coco hulls found in areas that grow or produce coconuts instead of letting the stuff decompose which can take 5 to 20 years.

The company uses/mixes in dolomite lime and oyster shells to buffer the pH levels. When the mix is ready they ship it with a pH of 6.3 to 6.8 so basically it is all set to go as the traditional soil base mix it is.

Thinking about it, if the company mixed all those various composts with Peat Moss no one would be mentioning trying to treat is as a hydroponic growing medium and jumping through hoops trying to change the medium's pH levels. All of this and more is on the companies web page for Coco Loco. Any questions then call or eMail them for explantions. They are friendly and will pick up the phone if calling during normal business hours (California time) or respond quickly to eMail.


Is this plant being grown in a tent or some sort of closet or cabinet? If so it should be easy to bring the temperatures up to help the plant grow better.

Or is it in a room in the house like a bedroom or unused room? If it is in the corner of a room then the whole room has to be heated which takes a bit more planning and effort and a room at 82F can be uncomfortable even in the winter, especially if it is being used as a bedroom.


As mentioned, mix and feed at the recommended dose.


Classic signs of low Calcium. Shows up a lot on indoor grows with LED lights. Use the amounts recommended by the company making your Calcium supplement. The damage on the leaves is there and will not go away but once the plant finds the Calcium it needs there will be no new copper brown colored spots showing up and none showing on new leaves.


Do you mean the center fingers on the fan leaves. Fan leaves usually have 3, 5, 7 and sometimes 9 fingers growing off of a single stem. Seems to me that having the bronze or copper color start to show on the middle finger was pretty usual until I started using a Calcium product on a regular basis.

Or do you mean the the problem is starting to show on the fan leaves that are more in the center or the plant. Some problems can start to show near the bottom of the plant, the middle or near the top. So, if the problem is starting in the middle area it could be an indication that something else might be happening at the same time.

It should not be hard to get your grow back on track. Have fun and enjoy your growing adventure.

If I were to follow recommendations on the bottles for Dyna Gro I would totally fry my plants. He's growing in coir/hydro and you won't find recommendations for running Dyna Gro in Coco Coir on the back of the bottles.

By following manufacturers recommendations you are as a result probably overfeeding, they are in the business to sell product.

I say go by recommendations for growing in Coco coir and those guidelines are the same regardless of nutrient brand. Correct EC and pH is crucial for optimal growth and you won't find the optimal written on the bottles. There's many skillful hydro growers on here and you're better of following someone with experience rather than blindly following nutrient manufacturers recommendations. My two cents!

Cheers!

 

[Bill284]

Soil Fox Farm Coco Loco
Light 100 watts LED 16 inches (SF-1000)
Dyna Grow Foliage Pro, Bloom, Protekt, Cal Mag
PH in around 6.5 out around 6.5
Feeding at around 350 PPM's every watering.
Temps 72 RH 50
Watering to 20% runoff RO water, every 2-3 days. (heavy watering, wait for pot to feel light before watering again) Measuring PPMs of runoff around 300, PH around 6.5


Hi all, I'm many grows in now and make it to harvest, but I have the same problem every grow mid to late flower. It starts with a few spots and moves very fast taking almost all of my fan leaves in the end. My buds make it to harvest, but I know they arent all they should be ! Any ideas what deficiency this is? Maybe I'm not feeding enough in flower? I know it looks a little like nutrient burn, but P and K deficiencies look similar? Calcium deficencies also look a lot like this, but all the diagnostic pictures I look at are similar...

Week 5 flower, Northern Lights. In a few days, this will look a lot worse, I know. Been here, done this too many times !

For now, Ive raised the lights and powered down to 80% power. The problem started on middle fan leaf edges and is progressing to the tips, a brown rust color. Lower leaves show slight brown, and a few of the sugar leaves are starting to brown as well, mainly middle fan leafs though.

You need cal mag in your plain water first. Because it's coco.
Then add nutrients according to the schedule, I'd be around 1000 ppm right now.
They are starving.
And I'd drop the ph closer to 6.
5.8 in coco 6.3 in soil.
You have a combo.


Stay safe
Bill284

 

[bluter]

agree he could use some cal mag. the amendments in coco loco are supposed to be aimed at cal mag though. there's more going on here.

general underfeed and it's showing the beginning of a pk ask, but i think the ph needs looked at by the bronzing in the leaves. everything is just slightly off and messing with the other parts.

also i'm not so impressed with the spyder farmer light. it's overpriced for what it is, it has a good chipset and decent driver, but it's only 100 true watt and the emitter count is pathetic. a better light would wake things up by piles. i'd run at least 2 for a single plant in flower.

also agree the temps could be better, but it's a moot point without addressing the light.

 

[Ancient Green]

Can I ask? What do you mean by salt? Forgive my ignorance.

Salts are everywhere, not just table salt. As an example, calcium is a salt. Epsom salts are used for Magnesium.(it even has salt in the name)...So, basically, as water dries out salts can buildup. Many water to runoff to prevent salt (nutrient) build up or flush the plants with plain water to correct issues. The main reason people "flush" is to remove salts.


Soluble salts are dissolved inorganic solutes. In growing media, common soluble salts are calcium, magnesium, sodium, chloride, sulfate and bicarbonate. Smaller quantities of potassium, ammonium, nitrate and carbonate are also found. Sources of soluble salts in soils and soilless media include commercial fertilizers, animal manures (usually high tunnels), soil organic matter, composts, runoff from areas where salt or ice-melt products have been used and irrigation water that is high in dissolved salts.


salts link

 

[Ancient Green]

room temperature

I hear you man, many have mentioned temperature here and I appreciate the advice. I'll work on getting the temps up. It's winter where I live and my basement is cold ! Temps are dropping to low 60's lights out and this cant be good. My cold/wet roots may be suffering. (did I mention I wear a lot of sweaters?)

So I'm not arguing at all all ! And appreciate the advice. Heater to come soon...

Now, on the other side of the topic of temps...Low temps can be good as they reduce humidity and odor. Lower temps are also recommended by many in flower.

Just food for thought, I'm still listening and promise warm and toasty conditions will come for future grows. I just wat to do it right!

I am currently at 73 lights on and 67 lights off..

420 Temps guide below

Maintaining the right temperature for growing marijuana plants is crucial for a successful harvest. By keeping the temperature in the optimal range, you can ensure healthy and robust plant growth, as well as a high-quality yield.

A quick overview of temperatures for all grow stages​

Growth stage	Daytime temp.	Nighttime temp.	Humidity
Seedling stage	68-77 F°/20-25 C°	59-68 F°/15-20 C°	65-70%
Vegetative stage	71-83 F°/22-28 C°	64-74 F°/18-23 C°	40-70%
Flowering stage	68-79 F°/20-26 C°	64-74 F°/18-23 C°	35-45%
Late flowering stage	65-75 F°/18-24 C°	60-65 F°/15-18 C°	30-40%

 

[Bill284]

Salts are everywhere, not just table salt. As an example, calcium is a salt. Epsom salts are used for Magnesium.(it even has salt in the name)...So, basically, as water dries out salts can buildup. Many water to runoff to prevent salt (nutrient) build up or flush the plants with plain water to correct issues. The main reason people "flush" is to remove salts.


Soluble salts are dissolved inorganic solutes. In growing media, common soluble salts are calcium, magnesium, sodium, chloride, sulfate and bicarbonate. Smaller quantities of potassium, ammonium, nitrate and carbonate are also found. Sources of soluble salts in soils and soilless media include commercial fertilizers, animal manures (usually high tunnels), soil organic matter, composts, runoff from areas where salt or ice-melt products have been used and irrigation water that is high in dissolved salts.


salts link

GH is a bugger for salts.
I feed until it pisses out the bottom.
This washes out the previous days build up.
Otherwise it'll plug like a cork, no exaggeration.
Good nutrients just a lot of salts.


Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Ancient Green]

agree he could use some cal mag. the amendments in coco loco are supposed to be aimed at cal mag though. there's more going on here.

I'm trying to learn how to read my plants and am not convinced this is a cal deficiency. (still not sure though, the pics I look at seem very similar when it comes to Cal, P and/or K deficiencies.) I did give a good dose or Cal mag last watering though and am upping nutrients.

general underfeed and it's showing the beginning of a pk ask, but i think the ph needs looked at by the bronzing in the leaves. everything is just slightly off and messing with the other parts.

Thanks, thats what I was thinking (too little P and K). Its very possible I'm simply not giving enough nutrients. I have to be careful here though, thats a classic newbie mistake, adding more nutrients at a bad time. Its also very possible I have lockout or nutrient uptake issues.

also i'm not so impressed with the spyder farmer light. it's overpriced for what it is, it has a good chipset and decent driver, but it's only 100 true watt and the emitter count is pathetic. a better light would wake things up by piles. i'd run at least 2 for a single plant in flower.

I'm growing in a 15 " x 15" x 32 " grow cabinet, more power wont do me any good, its a very small space. I may look into better lights later but so far I've really liked the SF-1000 ( less than 100 bucks).. Many people have had very good results using this light. Not disagreeing with you, I may buy a new light later down the road. For now, I'll stick with the SF-1000

also agree the temps could be better, but it's a moot point without addressing the light.

 

[Ancient Green]

You need cal mag in your plain water first. Because it's coco.
Then add nutrients according to the schedule, I'd be around 1000 ppm right now.
They are starving.
And I'd drop the ph closer to 6.
5.8 in coco 6.3 in soil.
You have a combo.

Ok, my PH tested a bit high around 6.7 last night. I was feeding around 5.8- 6.0 for a while but bumped the PH up to around 6.5 as I read that calcium is absorbed best 6.5- 7.0. I'll drop my feed back to 6.0 for a while.

Please note, this is Coco Loco, not pure Coco. Its supposed to be treated like soil, so I'm kind of in the middle of coco and soil. Its a weird hybrid. I actually moved to Coco Loco to improve aeration and reduce over watering, but it holds water like a sponge ! And yes, I added 25% perlite as well ! I'll move back to soil for my next grow.

Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Ancient Green]

ph might be catching up to you. coco is generally fed on hydro rules at 5.8

Its tricky in soil to know exactly what your "soil" PH is at the root zone. I dont have probes to test the actual soil, so the best I can do it monitor PH in feed and runoff for clues. Being that my feed and runoff are hovering around 6.5 I think I'm not too far off here.

Add the fact that this isnt really pure Coco, its a Coco/Soil blend. So, I've been keeping PH somewhere in the middle of Coco and Soil recommendations. I'll try dropping it back to low 6's though, I appreciate anything to try at this point !

 

[Bill284]

Ok, my PH tested a bit high around 6.7 last night. I was feeding around 5.8- 6.0 for a while but bumped the PH up to around 6.5 as I read that calcium is absorbed best 6.5- 7.0. I'll drop my feed back to 6.0 for a while.

Please note, this is Coco Loco, not pure Coco. Its supposed to be treated like soil, so I'm kind of in the middle of coco and soil. Its a weird hybrid. I actually moved to Coco Loco to improve aeration and reduce over watering, but it holds water like a sponge ! And yes, I added 25% perlite as well ! I'll move back to soil for my next grow.

Straight coco/ perlite will give you the best growth rate and total control.
I'll never crack another bag of soil.
I know your stuck in the middle .
That's why I never recommend coco loco .
It's nothing but a head ach!
But you need the calmag in your water first every time!
Coco drains it from the girls.


Stay safe
Bill284

 

[bluter]

Ok, my PH tested a bit high around 6.7 last night. I was feeding around 5.8- 6.0 for a while but bumped the PH up to around 6.5 as I read that calcium is absorbed best 6.5- 7.0. I'll drop my feed back to 6.0 for a while.

don't chase run off ph or ppm. only tears lie that way.

Please note, this is Coco Loco, not pure Coco. Its supposed to be treated like soil, so I'm kind of in the middle of coco and soil.

is it balanced ? you need to know how to approach it. if they tell you it's balanced you may have to run without any ph, as phing the mix will make it unbalanced.

if they tell you to ph as soil then ph to 6.3 as a safe zone. if they tell you to ph as hydro stick to 5.8. normal coco is hydro. frankenmixes can screw you up to no end.

no matter what you need that info. could be source of all your trouble if you've been in this media from the beginning.

i'm not big on any fox farm product frankly. they do work but there are cheaper better media that are simpler to run.

Its a weird hybrid. I actually moved to Coco Loco to improve aeration and reduce over watering, but it holds water like a sponge ! And yes, I added 25% perlite as well ! I'll move back to soil for my next grow.

just choose a straight coco, true soil, or common peat base. hp promix and sunshine #4 are tried and true with no frills and easy to run for beginners. it takes well to things like sips you may want to look into.

straight coco is great for beginners as it's a fun media to tend the garden. bit more hands on which is good for newer folk. look at what @Bill284 recommends for an easy grow mix. it's rock solid.

 

[Ancient Green]

Fox Farm is using several types of compost mixed with finely shredded Coco Coir and some Perlite. The Coco Coir is a replacement for the Peat Moss used in the more traditional potting soil mixes. Growers have talking about making these sorts of mixes for years as a way to avoid over-harvesting the remaining peat bogs. And as a way to use the piles and piles of discarded coco hulls found in areas that grow or produce coconuts instead of letting the stuff decompose which can take 5 to 20 years.

The company uses/mixes in dolomite lime and oyster shells to buffer the pH levels. When the mix is ready they ship it with a pH of 6.3 to 6.8 so basically it is all set to go as the traditional soil base mix it is.

Thinking about it, if the company mixed all those various composts with Peat Moss no one would be mentioning trying to treat is as a hydroponic growing medium and jumping through hoops trying to change the medium's pH levels. All of this and more is on the companies web page for Coco Loco. Any questions then call or eMail them for explantions. They are friendly and will pick up the phone if calling during normal business hours (California time) or respond quickly to eMail.

Funny, I went to the website and the description of Coco Loco didntr have much information about exactly whats in it. I've had better luck with Happy Frog, and moved to Coco Loco to "test the water" with Coco. So far, I'm not crazy about it. It holds water a little too much ! More so than Happy Frog. Thanks for the tip, I may actually contact Fox Farm to see what they have to say.

Is this plant being grown in a tent or some sort of closet or cabinet? If so it should be easy to bring the temperatures up to help the plant grow better.

Yes, I grow one plant at a time in a very small Metal Grow Cabinet. (locking doors are a must)... My space is only 15 inches by 15 inches by 32. I am using two fans, one on the canopy and one with a carbon filter to reducce smell. I've been averaging around 2 ounces of pure tops using this small space and mainlining/manifolding my plants for 8 colas low and even...

Or is it in a room in the house like a bedroom or unused room? If it is in the corner of a room then the whole room has to be heated which takes a bit more planning and effort and a room at 82F can be uncomfortable even in the winter, especially if it is being used as a bedroom.

My cabinet is in my basement laundry room. It wouldnt take much to heat my cabinet, I'm working on this now ! I also have a dehumidifier to keep the laundry room at around 45 RH...

As mentioned, mix and feed at the recommended dose.


Classic signs of low Calcium. Shows up a lot on indoor grows with LED lights. Use the amounts recommended by the company making your Calcium supplement. The damage on the leaves is there and will not go away but once the plant finds the Calcium it needs there will be no new copper brown colored spots showing up and none showing on new leaves.

Thanks ! Man, I just cant tell by looking at deficiency pictures. I have spent many hours and am still unsure, I really appreciate this. P and K deficiencies can look a LOT like Calcium deficiencies. I'm very confused. I'm also nervous to just dump Cal mag in as this can block other nutrients if over done.

Do you mean the center fingers on the fan leaves. Fan leaves usually have 3, 5, 7 and sometimes 9 fingers growing off of a single stem. Seems to me that having the bronze or copper color start to show on the middle finger was pretty usual until I started using a Calcium product on a regular basis.

It seems to be affecting middle fan leaves ( the big leaves you see in Veg) and some of the smaller leaves at top around the colas. (not sure if these are sugar leaves) Bottom fan leafs seem to be hanging in there nice and healthy which is a bit odd. It started on the edges of the leafs and has progressed to the tips a bit...

Or do you mean the the problem is starting to show on the fan leaves that are more in the center or the plant. Some problems can start to show near the bottom of the plant, the middle or near the top. So, if the problem is starting in the middle area it could be an indication that something else might be happening at the same time.

It should not be hard to get your grow back on track. Have fun and enjoy your growing adventure.

Thanks, the plant is doing pretty good other than the discoloration of middle leafs and small colas.

Week 5 Flower Side pic from last night.--- (remember this is a small space 15"x 15" x 32" ! Lights are 16 inches above the canopy and I have a few inches left of vertical space before my light hits my carbon filter. Using a mainline allows my grow to fit in such a small space (barely). This also keeps my flowers at equal height. A circle of 8 colas

4-5 weeks to go if I can get her healthy! I really want to see these colas get as fat as a football.I think they have been on an accidental diet, starving when they need food the most !

Top pic from last night.... (after feeding 1/2 tsp Cal Mag with heavier feed and more PK). Also gave a dose of Recharge for the hell of it... Damage to leaves is slowing, but already done. So far, the Cal mag and increased PK seems to be helping.

 

[bluter]

I'm growing in a 15 " x 15" x 32 " grow cabinet, more power wont do me any good, its a very small space. I may look into better lights later but so far I've really liked the SF-1000 ( less than 100 bucks).. Many people have had very good results using this light. Not disagreeing with you, I may buy a new light later down the road. For now, I'll stick with the SF-1000

so i just noticed this. why is the space so small if you are banned to the basement ? how large is the bucket ?
i'm guessing you are hitting root binding a little as well.

you could use more space, and even better lighting within your space. it doesn't make sense your temps aren't there if you are bottled into that cab. get a cheap environment monitor and shove it in there. they track temp and humidity.

i'd still look at better lighting. adding cheap rope light on the walls does amazing things in a space that size. look into space buckets and how they are run.

also in a space that size i'd run hempy style in a heartbeat. cheap, easy, no mess and a perfect micro style which is what you are doing.

 

[Ancient Green]

so i just noticed this. why is the space so small if you are banned to the basement ? how large is the bucket ?
i'm guessing you are hitting root binding a little as well.

Ive done 3 5 and 7 gallon pots in this space. For this grow, I am in a 3 gallon cloth pot. I wanted to reduce stretch and plant size a bit while allowing heavy watering to runoff. I transplanted from 1 gallon the 3 a week before flip to 12/12.

you could use more space, and even better lighting within your space. it doesn't make sense your temps aren't there if you are bottled into that cab. get a cheap environment monitor and shove it in there. they track temp and humidity.

Funny, I even have my cabinet covered in a blanket, its still too cool. If I reduce the intake fan speed, the temps go up but so does the humidity. So, I can reduce fan speed to get temps up to 75 but its still very cold lights out. (around 60-65)

Yep, more space would be nice, but I'm not letting this stop me from growing and am up for the challenge. I am a weed smoker "light weight" and one plant in this space gives me more weed than I can possibly smoke. I have harvests still curing after years !!! I just cant keep up. (smoking that is)..

i'd still look at better lighting. adding cheap rope light on the walls does amazing things in a space that size. look into space buckets and how they are run.

Yep, I am looking at lights, HLG, maybe AC afinity or Vivosun. (there is a light with a fan in the center that would be nice) I'm not sure more wattage will help though, but may bump up to 150 watts.

I'd also like to make sure whatever light I get in the future is set up for flower. Veg seems to be easy, flower is where it gets tricky, (for me at least)

also in a space that size i'd run hempy style in a heartbeat. cheap, easy, no mess and a perfect micro style which is what you are doing.

I'll have to research "hempy style", this ones new to me. I'm just using a classic Mainline approach with 8 colas.

 

[Hash Hound]

Hate doing this but I might have too. Its a little sad though, I'm only using 100 watts of light. Those heaters will throw my energy conservation attempts out the window...Those things take some seroius electricity !

I'll see if I can find a small heater with a thermostat... My lights out temps can dip into the low 60's. Thanks for the tip

Perhaps you can put a small fan above the lights pushing some heat downwards

 

[Ancient Green]

Perhaps you can put a small fan above the lights pushing some heat downwards

Canopy fan is a few inches from the light, blowing air down. No space to install the fan above the lights, the carbon filter is there...

I'm not sure this would be an upgrade to my SF-1000 but the center fan is nice.

my canopy fan..

 

[Keffka]

Hydroponics and synthetic substrate sound complex and stressful. I thought we were supposed to be stress training plants not the plants stress training us.

It’s funny because hydro and synthetic guys like @Absorber and (Gainesville Green, I can’t find your current username lol) see what organic guys like me are doing and think their way of growing is easier and mine is stressful and unnecessarily complex

Really it all depends on what you’re trying to achieve, where you’re trying to achieve it, and what you are better at. I can’t measure liquids very well for a few reasons, I also struggle to read ph accurately and am always unsure of my readings. Basically all of the things that make hydro nice (the minute control over every aspect) are all of the things I don’t like.

I can however keep track of all the organic amendments, their amounts needed, the ratios, and the signs a plant gives weeks before something is off. I don’t mind letting nature take the wheel.

That’s what makes the plant so fun though. There’s so many ways to make it happen