Hi all new new Grower needs help

[Kisor22]

Hey crew been having fun trying to learn a new hobby but am a bit stuck.

Just checking what you all think of this royal runtz auto. It had a hard start to life with a inexperienced grower. 7 weeks old and seems to have stalled in pre flower not sure if it’s normal to slow down or if the phenotype changed due to stress. I know it’s looking weak but is there hope for a harvest?

 

[CaptainLucky]

Hey crew been having fun trying to learn a new hobby but am a bit stuck.

Just checking what you all think of this royal runtz auto. It had a hard start to life with a inexperienced grower. 7 weeks old and seems to have stalled in pre flower not sure if it’s normal to slow down or if the phenotype changed due to stress. I know it’s looking weak but is there hope for a harvest?

Welcome to the 420 Magazine family bro but if you’re looking for help we are going to need a lot more details. What are you growing in, fertilizer and how often, lighting, etc CL

 

[Kisor22]

Regular peat free compost slow release fertiliser pellets 24/0 led grow lights not sure of the wattage but measuring 450 ppfd I haven’t kept a detailed diary and it’s pretty amateur all round.

 

[CaptainLucky]

Regular peat free compost slow release fertiliser pellets 24/0 led grow lights not sure of the wattage but measuring 450 ppfd I haven’t kept a detailed diary and it’s pretty amateur all round.

Are you still using veg nutrients or flowering? They don’t look bad maybe a little dark but that won’t hurt. How often are you watering? CL

 

[Kisor22]

I’ve added no additional nutrients beyond the miracle grow pellets. I’m just feeling the soil and watering
When dry maybe every 48 hours the pot they area in doesn’t drain quickly.

 

[Tokin Roll]

Welcome to 420 Magazine @Kisor22

Do you have an image of the whole plant?
Normally, during flower the light is only on 12 hours.

Here's some helpful info: Welcome New Members - Please Read Before Posting

Here is some information if you would like to start a grow journal How to Make a Grow Journal

If you want to see want other growers are doing, here's that link.

This is where you place your grow journal.

Journals in Progress: Current and Ongoing

And, after you have over 50 posts you can vote and enter our contests to win free grow stuff from our sponsors.

420 Contests: Win Cool 420 Prizes

Stay safe, and grow well my friend,

Tok..

 

[Bill284]

Welcome to 420Magazine @Kisor22 and happy 420
Your watering a bit too often.
And that miracle grow has too much nitrogen for flowering.
If you can switch to a cannabis specific flowering nutrient.
Check our sponsors for a discount.
Take care, talk soon.


Stay safe
Bill284

 

[CaptainLucky]

Welcome to 420Magazine @Kisor22 and happy 420
Your watering a bit too often.
And that miracle grow has too much nitrogen for flowering.
If you can switch to a cannabis specific flowering nutrient.
Check our sponsors for a discount.
Take care, talk soon.


Stay safe
Bill284

If you like using a dry fertilizer a lot of growers swear by @GeoFlora Nutrients. I think it’s an auto he’s growing so the lighting hours won’t matter except for the letric bill. CL

 

[SmokingWings]

Welcome to the group. A lot of fun and knowledgeable people here.

I don't grow auto-flowers but after having read a lot of different threads about auto-flowers I have to say that as a new grower you are doing pretty decent so far.

7 weeks old and seems to have stalled in pre flower

It is not in pre-flower. The plant is in full flowering mode and probably has been for two weeks and is about on schedule. If a person is not used to looking at stigma/pistils it can be tricky trying to notice when flowering is actually starting.

Regular peat free compost

Did you buy this in a bag? If so, then the name of the company and the name the company gave to the soil. Usually when I see plain compost it is meant to be added to an outdoor garden or mixed with peat and perlite to make a potting soil. Not much that can be done about it now but knowing what it is will help for the next grow.

slow release fertiliser pellets

I was going the say the same about these fertilizer pellets but I noticed that you mentioned MIracle-Gro in another msg. It would help if you can mention the name that Miracle-Gro gave to the fertilizer. Some of what the company puts on the market is meant for houseplants that do not flower. Some is meant for flowering plants and some is for vegetable plants. As you get used to this new hobby you will pick up on the fertilizer numbers and what each means.

When dry maybe every 48 hours the pot they area in doesn’t drain quickly.

Using how the soil feels to determine when to water is not the best way. It can take a lot of practice to be right half of the time. It might not be draining quickly because it is a compost and those types of soil can hold onto water for more than two days.

I noticed the dark green color to the leaves right away and it looks like everyone else is too. The fertilizer is probably a high Nitrogen one but knowing the numbers will help figure that out. The dark color might be from the setting on the camera throwing off the real color.

 

[Kisor22]

It is that colour I’ll have to wait till I’m home to check the pellets and soil I’m looking for the NPK balance I’ll order some flowering nutes let her dry out a bit thank you for such a thorough reply
So much to learn

 

[SmokingWings]

It is that colour

No problem. It is just something that many Cannabis growers notice on potted plants.

I do not worry about dark green leaves on my plants when they are in a vegetative stage. That way they will have enough Nitrogen to carry them for awhile before the plant starts to pull that particular nutrient from the fan leaves once flowering starts.

 

[Sativa1970]

All things considered,, she looks good. You must have a green thumb. Welcome to the group.

 

[Azimuth]

Think about reducing your light schedule a bit. Plants evolved with a dark period and some important activities take place while the plant is resting. Autos don't need a particular amount of dark hours to flip to, and stay in, flower mode but that doesn't mean they won't benefit from some rest.

20/4 seems to be a pretty common auto light schedule from those growers skilled at those types of plants.

 

[Trump]

The compost is holding too much water hence why your leaves look slightly overwatered. Plant looks good just overwatered. When you think you need to water wait an extra day.

As has been mentioned, try using the light pot method to determine when it's time to water.

We're not allowed to post links to other sites so I'll have to post the text here. I am not the author. Read and learn.

"This will be a long read based on my personal knowledge, opinions, research and others work to consolidate information for our members. I'm not presenting my opinions as facts so take from this what you like. I will be putting it in subsection format for easy reference.

First, I want to make an important point to take into consideration before reading. The tap root will grow directly downwards to the bottom of the container before spreading out.

PERCHED WATER TABLE

What is it?

The perched water table is basically the height of the saturation zone where capillary action and gravity cancel each other out. This area will be saturated with water and will be responsible most growers issues with watering practices especially in soil grows.

WHAT IS CAPILLARY ACTION

CAPILLARY action is the combination of the cohesive and adhesive properties of water.

In short adhesion is water clinging to the media (think of it like wicking or soaking up)

Cohesion is where the water clings to itself.

So as the water is wicked up (adhesion) it pulls more water with it through Cohesion and at the point gravity and these properties cancel each other out is the perched water table.

This perched water table will always remain the SAME HEIGHT and will always stay saturated unless taken up by the plants or evaporates when the pot dries out. No matter the container height, depth or volume of media. So if a tall skinny container had a perched water table of 1" then a short wide one of the same media will also have a perched water table of 1". Which means the ratio of water to air in a wide pot will be higher than a tall skinny pot which will have a higher air to water ratio... keep this in mind as we get further.

Different media's have different perched water tables. A more absorbent media will have a higher perched water table than a less absorbent media... REMEMBER THIS as it makes a big difference on pot selection for your media.

DIFFERENT MEDIA

Water holding capacity is directly related to the height of the perched water table so soils with more clay or silt and less sand will have a higher perched water table than those with more sand because sand is a larger particle.

The larger the overall particles of the media the lower the perched water table and better the drainage.

By adding things like perlite or vermiculite (while vermiculite is good at absorbing water it also improves drainage so its helpful in keeping a more even level of moisture throughout the media while increasing drainage due to its size) we can lower the perched water table by reducing the wicking (adhesion) ability and creating more space between particles overall reducing the cohesion effect and in turn the height of the perched water table.

Media like peat based or coco have a much higher drainage and lower perched water table than soil and are therefore less susceptible to over watering but will require more frequent watering due to the lower water holding capacity.

Adding things like perlite or hydroton to the bottom of the pots will NOT reduce the water table but instead raise it. This is because as I said the height of the water table will not change for a given media. So, if you add things like that to the bottom you are essentially just moving the water table up.

Basically, the larger the particles IN the media the better drainage and lower the water table.

If you want to see the height of your perched water table use a clear cup with drain holes fill with media and saturate it. Wait a few hrs for drainage and then come back and look. You can see the difference in the varying media's if you want to experiment.

If you feel you have over watered, or your perched water table height is too high, you can simply tilt your pot on a 45 degree angle and release more water from the media as runoff. To help visualize think of it this way if you have a perched water table of 2”. You can draw an imaginary horizontal line at that height, when you tilt the pot you have less media below that line and therefore you will have less water in the pot after tilting it.

POT SIZE

I have already covered this a bit, but my opinion is if you are using a media with a higher water table you will benefit from taller narrower pots and if using a media with a lower perched water table the shorter wider ones may benefit you depending on your watering practices.

I prefer the taller over wider no matter the media as I choose to water often and have a higher air holding capacity and lower water table but that can work against you if you can't water as frequently and as plants grow it can greatly increase the frequency required as the roots will be pulling the water out of that saturation zone quickly. So you may want to use taller pots for small plants and transplant into a wider one as they grow.

You also don't want a pot that's to tall and the top portion of the media is drying out to fast while the bottom is wet.

Let's use seedlings as an example take a solo cup or a large container... the water table will be the same height in either. I see sooo often ppl trying to water a tiny bit in circles or mist the surface and for lack of other words IT DEIVES ME NUTS. Why because the roots are so shallow they are not at risk of being over watered. Remember though tap roots grow straight down so we to be mindful as they grow depending on the gas exchange of the media that the majority of roots are not sitting in the saturated zone with poor gas exchange because this will cause lack of oxygen that we incorrectly refer to as overwatering which is actually the cause not the symptom.

It's important to fill containers to the top to give us a good amount of space above the perched water table that high in o2. If you fill a solo cup halfway with soil, it's likely to be sitting in the saturation zone and will not do well.


Also going to make the point that plants will be most susceptible to overwatering when the roots first hit the bottom and spread out until they fill the bottom and start moving back up out of the saturation zone. So again, it may be more beneficial to use a taller narrow pot for the early stages of growth (2-4 weeks depending on growth) and transplant into a wider pot as you go. After the transplant almost all of the roots will be above the saturation zone, and it becomes much harder to over water. New roots will again work their way down into the saturation zone, but you will have plenty above so its less likely to over water and why uppotting as you go I see as a benefit instead of starting in a large wide container.

POT MATERIAL

Some prefer plastic others fabric, air pots etc.

This can affect the perched water table by evaporation as the lager the exposed surface area the more evaporation that occurs from the media in say fabric pots. This imo has a few benefits.... slightly reducing the perched water table but more so the exposure for gas exchange that's happening and that's a good thing for o2 levels in the root zone that I feel are directly related to growth rates and I'll explain why going a bit off topic for a second.

It's no coincidence that the fastest growing media's have the highest amounts of o2 and gas exchange.... for eg aeroponics have unlimited to rich o2 and water. Hydro similar with slightly less o2, soilless media's such as coco and I would possibly include peat and last soil. If you notice they are in order of growth rates and its not hard to see the difference in their air holding capacity in that order. And the fact that larger particles also have a better gas exchange rate. This is important because the plants take in oxygen and expel co2 in the rootzone as do the microbes on top of that so good gas exchange is important for both.

Just a note... air pruning has nothing to do with the benefits of fabric pots all it does is signal the roots to grow in a different direction.

But let's get back on topic of watering and how it's affected.

TEMPERATURE AND HUMIDITY

The warmer the temps the more evaporation occurs.

The lower your humidity the more evaporation occurs.

The more surface area exposed to air movement (wind) the more evaporation.

Think those don't need an explanation. But the difference in pot material coupled with these environmental factors will have an impact on your watering needs.

The temperature of the media not only affects evaporation but also directly affect the temperature of the plant and leaf temps. This has a large impact on nutrient uptake and transportation.

First let me say that this next part is opinion and I will gives my reasoning for my opinions. With the exception of hydro (leaving this part out as this post is about watering not hydro) roots like to be about the same temperature as the leaves contrary to what's talked about from many prominent growers in the industry but not all like Mr.Bruce Bugbee. IMO ideal root temps are the same as ideal leaf temps and overall plant temps especially since the root temps have a large impact on the plant and leaf temps. What are ideal temps imo and many studies show that leaf temps (NOT AIR TEMPS) of around 77f are most efficient. So how does a cool rootzone impact the plants negatively? Well it's 2 fold because of the cool temps the viscosity (measument of flow rate) of the sap will decrease so its harder for the plant to move the nutrients through the plant. The other is absorption and one fact is that in a cooler rootzone the concentration of nutrients is higher (but aqua you just said it slows absorption) well it does as the nutrients build up in the roots it can absorb less and this has a direct impact negatively on the plant. It may appear to be overwatered because the plant is now struggling to take up and use oxygen. Add that to the slowed transpiration rates and you have the same symptom many refer to overwatering which again is lack of o2. Now take a cold rootzone where the plants slow water uptake and then add the saturation zone to it and you can see the road to correction and recover is a long one and can have huge impact on growth and yields.

So get your pots up off the floor

WET AND DRY CYCLES

in soil and peat with higher water tables or with wider pots or combination of wet and dry cycles are important. This is to allow the dry back (including the uptake of water from the saturation zone) to prevent symptoms of over watering and help with o2 levels. Remember the majority of roots will end up in the saturation zone with these media's or with wider pots. Which can become depleted of o2 quickly as gas exchange is lower in water and media made up of smaller particles. This is where pot size and shape are important for the size of plant. You have a small plant in large container and there is no way it can take up enough of the water in the saturation zone fast enough to get air exposure in a media that has low gas exchange and majority of the roots. So it's important to choose a pot size that will allow for this. It's also why using the finger method to gage watering is poor and lifting the pots is much better... when they are light you know they have taken up a good portion of the saturation zone and are ready to be watered again.

This is much less of an issue when using soilless like coco or peat/perlite."

Many cannabis centric soils to choose from. Some of the more popular are Fox Farm Ocean Forest, Happy Frog, Roots Original, Coast of Maine Stonington, Pro Mix. Each have their pluses and minuses. For an auto I would try using Roots Original Lush formula.